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cosyr
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Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 4:50 am

With United taking out the TV's from their A320's and adding WiFi and power adapters, people using laptops and tablets maybe very happy with their entertainment options. I can see that their are definitely some advantages for United (and other carriers doing this) to remove TV's. They may or may not save money on content, depending on whether they offer content over WiFi. They certainly save money on weight, removing TV equipment from every row, and best of all, they can charge for the use of the internet, instead of offering TV for free.

But how much fuel savings from reduced weight is offset by increased power consumption, when the whole plane plugs in their devices to last the whole flight?

In other words, does it take more fuel to carry around TV's or to create Auxiliary power for every row?
 
Cipango
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 4:53 am

If everyone started bringing laptops with them then surely the weight benefits of removed TV's and addition of laptops would diminish?
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SonomaFlyer
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 5:05 am

People would bring tablets and smart phones a lot more often than full sized laptops.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 5:28 am

Luckily, DL still believes in personal TVs, and also remains committed to continue offering overhead video on the non-AVOD PMDL 752s, which had their CRTs replaced with LCDs last year.
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Eagleboy
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 7:09 am

Quoting cosyr (Thread starter):
But how much fuel savings from reduced weight is offset by increased power consumption, when the whole plane plugs in their devices to last the whole flight?

It looks like the future of IFE will be some sort of wireless network that the pax connect to using their own device.
And removing the seatback TV isn't just about the weight, the airline doesn't spend on equipment acquisition, installation, maintenance.
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 7:32 am

Those old screens can give off a lot of heat as well as the boxes eating into space under the seats. Give it another 5 years and 95%+ of passengers will be flying with their own tablets / smartphones anyway. Sounds like a great move.
 
bthebest
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 8:50 am

Quoting cipango (Reply 1):
If everyone started bringing laptops with them then surely the weight benefits of removed TV's and addition of laptops would diminish?

Most people bring them anyway because they want them at their destination.

Quoting cosyr (Thread starter):
They may or may not save money on content, depending on whether they offer content over WiFi. They certainly save money on weight, removing TV equipment from every row, and best of all, they can charge for the use of the internet, instead of offering TV for free.

I think the best scenario is to continue to offer free content via Wifi, with Internet at an extra-charge.

Quoting cosyr (Thread starter):
In other words, does it take more fuel to carry around TV's or to create Auxiliary power for every row?

Has Aux power efficiency matured as much as reasonably possible or could this be a new design driver for power system suppliers?
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 9:06 am

Quoting cipango (Reply 1):
If everyone started bringing laptops

To be honest, I think virtually everyone who would travel with their laptop already does so.

If every passenger currently didn't bring one, and then every passenger did bring one, then that would be a pretty significant weight increase. But I don't that will be the case.

More likely, more people would bring tablets which weigh very little.

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 6):
I think the best scenario is to continue to offer free content via Wifi, with Internet at an extra-charge.

I agree, and as I understand it that is what UA are doing. Is that correct?
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EA CO AS
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 11:10 am

Quoting cosyr (Thread starter):
With United taking out the TV's from their A320's and adding WiFi and power adapters, people using laptops and tablets maybe very happy with their entertainment options.

A recent customer survey done by a major U.S. carrier revealed over 80% of customers preferred to use their own device for IFE to carrier-provided seatback units. Among the reasons cited by customers were familiarity with their own device and satisfaction that it will be in good working order, something that isn't always a given with seatback units.

Since these devices are already being brought aboard regardless of whether or not the carrier has a seatback solution, it makes sense to offer a robust streaming solution via onboard servers either in conjunction with seatback IFE or in place of it.
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1337Delta764
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 5:58 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 8):

A recent customer survey done by a major U.S. carrier revealed over 80% of customers preferred to use their own device for IFE to carrier-provided seatback units. Among the reasons cited by customers were familiarity with their own device and satisfaction that it will be in good working order, something that isn't always a given with seatback units.

Since these devices are already being brought aboard regardless of whether or not the carrier has a seatback solution, it makes sense to offer a robust streaming solution via onboard servers either in conjunction with seatback IFE or in place of it.

Tell that to Gogo, who has been losing money since day one. Sorry, but IFE is here to stay.
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bthebest
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 6:09 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
Tell that to Gogo, who has been losing money since day one. Sorry, but IFE is here to stay.

Doesn't Gogo deal with air-to-ground connectivity? When we're talking about streaming content its from onboard pre-loaded servers, not ground based.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 6:21 pm

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 10):

Doesn't Gogo deal with air-to-ground connectivity? When we're talking about streaming content its from onboard pre-loaded servers, not ground based

Yes, but that doesn't nullify the fact that IFE usage still greatly outnumbers Wi-Fi usage (at least on DL), regardless whether or not streaming video is available.
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bthebest
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 6:31 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 11):
Yes, but that doesn't nullify the fact that IFE usage still greatly outnumbers Wi-Fi usage (at least on DL), regardless whether or not streaming video is available.

But what we're talking about here is streaming IFE content to personal devices. As far as I'm aware DL doesn't have this capability yet, so of course seat-installed IFE is going to be more popular - you can't disregard video streaming when that's that whole point!  
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 7:40 pm

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 12):
But what we're talking about here is streaming IFE content to personal devices. As far as I'm aware DL doesn't have this capability yet, so of course seat-installed IFE is going to be more popular - you can't disregard video streaming when that's that whole point!
DL DOES offer streaming IFE. First introduced on the 753 and now expanded to most domestic aircraft. At the same time, DL plans on installing AVOD on the 753 fleet, thus giving passengers a choice rather than forcing the streaming video onto everyone.

[Edited 2013-05-23 12:42:59]
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hiflyeras
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 7:57 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 4):
It looks like the future of IFE will be some sort of wireless network that the pax connect to using their own device. And removing the seatback TV isn't just about the weight, the airline doesn't spend on equipment acquisition, installation, maintenance.

This is the way AS is going...110v outlet and USB port at every seat and onboard wireless server with preloaded content. This is in addition to the existing gogo internet. They held off on seatback system, thinking that it would eventually be considered too expensive to fly around when most people would be bringing their own devices. It looks like they were right. They'll offer rental of tablets to those that don't have one. Installation complete (along with new Recaro seats) fleet-wide by the end of 2014.
 
bthebest
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 8:38 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
DL DOES offer streaming IFE. First introduced on the 753 and now expanded to most domestic aircraft. At the same time, DL plans on installing AVOD on the 753 fleet, thus giving passengers a choice rather than forcing the streaming video onto everyone.

Fair enough, although they don't appear to promote it on their website. I assume that's because its not fully rolled out yet. Maybe once its promoted more, the uptake will increase.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 8:50 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 8):
A recent customer survey done by a major U.S. carrier revealed over 80% of customers preferred to use their own device for IFE to carrier-provided seatback units. Among the reasons cited by customers were familiarity with their own device and satisfaction that it will be in good working order, something that isn't always a given with seatback units.

Since these devices are already being brought aboard regardless of whether or not the carrier has a seatback solution, it makes sense to offer a robust streaming solution via onboard servers either in conjunction with seatback IFE or in place of it.
Tell that to Gogo, who has been losing money since day one. Sorry, but IFE is here to stay.

I think you misunderstood my point; I never mentioned air-to-ground wifi, but rather a different IFE model where streaming content is available wirelessly to the entire aircraft via onboard servers where that content is stored, not an air-to-ground solution. Instead of installing hundreds of seatback units, you have one or two dedicated servers onboard with digital content that will be streamed wirelessly to anyone with a wireless-enabled device of their own.

[Edited 2013-05-23 13:50:42]
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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OA260
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 9:35 pm

Wifi and in eat power are more important to me than IFE TV screens. I find I watch my iPad anyway and notice alot more people doing the same. As above less costs for the cash strapped airlines to cough up to repair TVs.
 
jayunited
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 11:26 pm

I think on domestic flights wifi and in seat power at every seat is the way to go in the future. But in today's market people like their personal IFE TV screens. If you look at not only what United is doing with the A320/19 fleet and what Southwest is rolling out across their fleet you will see that airlines are moving in a different direction moving away from gogo which uses a ground to air system. The system United is installing on the A320/19 fleet and the B744 fleet and will be rolling out across the entire fleet is using satellite based wifi which is faster and more reliable.
However internationally I think we will see both satellite wifi and personal IFE screens at every seat.
 
gatechae
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Thu May 23, 2013 11:41 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 5):
Those old screens can give off a lot of heat as well as the boxes eating into space under the seats.

I agree it seems like every time i flew F9 it seemed the aircraft was much hotter than it was supposed to be.
 
United1
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Fri May 24, 2013 4:34 pm

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 15):
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
DL DOES offer streaming IFE. First introduced on the 753 and now expanded to most domestic aircraft. At the same time, DL plans on installing AVOD on the 753 fleet, thus giving passengers a choice rather than forcing the streaming video onto everyone.

Fair enough, although they don't appear to promote it on their website. I assume that's because its not fully rolled out yet. Maybe once its promoted more, the uptake will increase

There was a press release a couple of years ago from DL regarding installing streaming video on their fleet. Something called Delta Connection IIRC.....after that press release I never heard another peap out of DL about the system. I am not sure if it's still active or was dumped....does anyone have any links to any current information on the system? I know DL was planning on charging for every movie or TV show watched....is that still the case?
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
AustrianZRH
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RE: Wifi With Power Or Seatback TV's?

Fri May 24, 2013 6:19 pm

IFE for me. If I go to vacation, I don't want to waste space and weight for bringing a laptop or a tablet (which I don't even have). While I am not dependent on either if I have the choice between IFE and WiFi, I'd go for the IFE anytime (given the same price and equally convenient flight times). If the WiFi flight is much better price or timing wise, I'll survive without any electronics  .
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.

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