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TCX69K
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BA A319 Incident at LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 9:54 am

The opposite, left hand side...

http://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh498/TCX69K/IMG-20130524-WA0006_zps0876ef33.jpg
 
GLAGAZ
Posts: 1844
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BA A319 Incident at LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 9:54 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 43):
I just haven't a clue why the plane went back to LHR. Apparently it flew over Essex before returning. Surely disruption and risk to urban areas (if the plane had crashed) would have been minimised if it had landed at SEN or STN?

Much easier to go to somewhere you're familiar with. You know the runways, you know the weather, you know the ILS frequency, you know the minima....Then you come on to things once you're on the ground such as proper engineering support is available for the aircraft and the passengers can be easily shifted on to another flight if they so wish.

First impressions are that this was a very well handled emergency and subsequent evacuation so kudos to the crew!
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
RickNRoll
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:01 am

Must have been pretty hectic up in the front seats. Do they do anything like this on the simulators?
 
GLAGAZ
Posts: 1844
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:42 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:05 am

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 52):
Do they do anything like this on the simulators?

Engine fires and evacuations? Definitely!
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
bthebest
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:35 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:06 am

Quoting GLAGAZ (Reply 51):
Much easier to go to somewhere you're familiar with. You know the runways, you know the weather, you know the ILS frequency, you know the minima....Then you come on to things once you're on the ground such as proper engineering support is available for the aircraft and the passengers can be easily shifted on to another flight if they so wish.

First impressions are that this was a very well handled emergency and subsequent evacuation so kudos to the crew!

Agree. Also STN/LTN only have one runway so airport would effectively be closed. At least LHR has the other, even though disruption will still be significant. The important things are familiarity, pilot preference (at the end the day they're in charge) and ground support.

Flight history on BA Source doesn't show any trips to Prestwick in last month. Obviously line maintenance is done at LHR as well.
 
B777LRF
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:07 am

The responsibilties of a PIC is first and foremost to his passengers, crew and aircraft. Everything else is secondary to those priorities, and if the skipper decides he want to go back to LHR for whatever safety reason he has chosen, then so be it.
Signature. You just read one.
 
theaviator380
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:07 am

No any press for Captain or F/O yet?? would love to see heros.
 
mah584jr
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:17 am

Keeping a close eye on this as I'm delayed 4 hours in Istanbul because of this incident. Please keep the updates coming. Thankful everyone is ok!

-mah584jr
 
peterjohns
Posts: 194
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:18 am

Very lucky and a very good outcome/performance from all involved.
As the evacuation was only carried out on the left side - it is safe to assume that the fire was on the right ( as evident in the video). So the crew wouldn´t open the doors on that side for safety reasons.
The inflight picture shows the right engine without it´s cowling and damage on the wing, which could have come from either large birds or the parting cowling itself.
So probably both engines were damaged.
A fire in an engine does not necessarily mean a loss of thrust.

Good job they didn´t have to end up in the Thames- depending on where - they however probably could have gotten to the bank over the wing without getting their feet wet!
 
peterjohns
Posts: 194
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:20 am

Quoting peterjohns (Reply 58):
The inflight picture shows the right engine without it´s cowling

Sorry - meant the LEFT engine , of course
 
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par13del
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:26 am

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 54):
The important things are familiarity, pilot preference (at the end the day they're in charge) and ground support.

One would think the important thing would be to get the a/c on the ground as soon as possible, since most flight crew now carry computers and the flight departments ensure that they are updated, knowing the airport you are heading into is less of an issue since you are not concerned about taking the wrong exit or parking in the wrong spot. Pilots are trained to fly so the flight specifics of landing at a new airport should be no problem.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 55):
The responsibilties of a PIC is first and foremost to his passengers, crew and aircraft.

The PIC in charge is always front and center when an accident happens, for daily operations what is required for financial viability by management usually takes precedence, see this site numerous non-accident threads.

Glad to know that all pax are safe and sound, look forward to hearing the actual details on the initial cause of the incident.
 
AIR MALTA
Posts: 1791
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:28 am

Great that everything ended without any harm to passengers. But time to think about adding some runways to LHR.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
theaviator380
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:44 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:29 am

Quoting mah584jr (Reply 57):

You sure because of this incidence your flight is delayed?
 
theaviator380
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:31 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 49):

I know big bird strike but would it causes engine cowling to ripoff like that?
 
ggflyboy
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:10 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:32 am

I guess its early to speculate, but the lack of cowling on both sides is suspicious. Engineering models in design usually account for one failed latch, but not all latches open. So, leaving the latches open could separate parts from the aircraft in flight (only gust loading on the ground is accounted for the design phase).

So... Failure to latch or faulty latches, perhaps combined with a blown duct on the RH side? Not exactly sure how the plumbing works on this particular engine. Even a blown duct isn't supposed to separate parts from the aircraft, if that indeed were the root cause and not some sort of latch issue.

I don't think uncontained failure is likely on either side. Both casings themselves look intact, and at least one engine was (partly) operable.

There is also the chance that the cowling was removed for fire-fighting purposes, but I've never seen that before. Sounds like a pretty unhelpful/dangerous thing to do if there was an active fire.

In any case, glad everyone is made it down safely. The investigators will have fun piecing this one together.

[Edited 2013-05-24 03:37:58]

[Edited 2013-05-24 03:38:49]
 
liquidair
Posts: 266
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:34 am

Quoting TheAviator380 (Reply 63):

first time image didn't upload.... check my reply (49) again!
     
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
mah584jr
Posts: 433
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:34 am

Quoting TheAviator380 (Reply 62):
You sure because of this incidence your flight is delayed?

Yeah, I'm flying THY1985. It was supposed to depart at 13:10 local and now shows a departure time of 17:10. When they announced a delay that large I knew it was more than an aircraft problem.
 
theaviator380
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:44 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:43 am

Quoting liquidair (Reply 65):

Hahah...I saw tht now....wooooshhhh,,,,good stuff.

Quoting mah584jr (Reply 66):

I C. Hope you able to spend some good time. Cheers.
 
bthebest
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:35 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:44 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 60):
One would think the important thing would be to get the a/c on the ground as soon as possible, since most flight crew now carry computers and the flight departments ensure that they are updated, knowing the airport you are heading into is less of an issue since you are not concerned about taking the wrong exit or parking in the wrong spot. Pilots are trained to fly so the flight specifics of landing at a new airport should be no problem.

Of course getting on the ground safely is the primary concern, I was stating more in terms of importance over ATC ops/disruption etc. In this case though, as every BA pilot flies in and out of LHR all the time, they don't need computers and information as much so can concentrate on managing the problem and flying the aircraft. Even for just basic positioning they will know eactly where they are, where to line up and what heights to be at. Minimising workload in this type of situation is invaluable.
 
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EK413
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 10:58 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 19):
Quoting vikinga346 (Reply 20):

Thank you   

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 21):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 19):
Was this a ex-BMI aircraft as I'm not educated on the BA/BMI A319 fleet registrations.

- No original BA machine, though I don't think that makes a difference.

Doesn't make any difference at all. It was a simple question with a simple answer.

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
MerlinIIIB
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:32 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:05 am

Photo and video show missing inner & outer cowlings on both engines. Passenger have told Norwegian press about cowlings separating with corresponding loud bang at moment of rotation ...
 
sankaps
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:51 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:09 am

Quoting MerlinIIIB (Reply 70):
Passenger have told Norwegian press about cowlings separating with corresponding loud bang at moment of rotation ...

If that is true, sounds more and more like someone forgot to latch the cowlings. Will lead to some very red faces in within BA...  Wow!
 
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Btblue
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:16 am

I saw some pictures on twitter and hearing what this guy said (he's the one that put images up when the aircraft landed and described the pop after rotation) it would appear the cowlings were, most possibly not fixed correctly.

There are some clear close-up shot on the daily mail website:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...plane-makes-emergency-landing.html

It does seem mightily odd that both cowlings seperated - also I can't see any tell tale signs of a bird strike along the wings and fuselage.

BA described is as a 'technical' incident.

Anybody know if this aircraft was operating yesterday? Was it in for maintenance?

NOTE - there is also a passenger video at the above daily mail link of the A/C on approach to LHR overlooking the LH engine minus the cowling.

[Edited 2013-05-24 04:19:11]

The aircraft was operating its first flight of the day - having arrived inbound Stavagner the previous evening.

http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/GEUOE


[Edited 2013-05-24 04:27:00]
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15652
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:21 am

With problems with panels on both engines, one has to wonder if there is a mx procedural issue. The fasteners may be over torqued, or just missed, not double checked upon reattachment of the panels. You could also have bad, worn or damaged fasteners as well worn or damaged attachment points for them. The possibility of what happened will likely come out in the investigation.
 
Upperdeck
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:23 am

How would the removal of the cowlings cause the apparent engine fire?
 
777
Posts: 452
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:26 am

Quoting upperdeck (Reply 74):
How would the removal of the cowlings cause the apparent engine fire?

That's exactly my question too!
 
MerlinIIIB
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:32 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:33 am

Quoting upperdeck (Reply 74):
How would the removal of the cowlings cause the apparent engine fire?

Disruption of the air flow during separation, compressor stall...?
 
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Btblue
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Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:57 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:33 am

Quoting 777 (Reply 75):

Could force not pull with it some small parts - causing elements of the engine to contact and burn?

Fractured a pipe or something like that?

It is obvious that whatever the problem was, the fire wasn't able to be extinguished - hence the smoke on approach so something was still burning. Also there is a lot of smoke deposits outside on the side of the engine... indicating that fire possibly came from the pipes/exposed engine?

Pictures of both engines below:



[Edited 2013-05-24 04:45:46]

[Edited 2013-05-24 04:46:30]
 
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teme82
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:35 am

Flying high and low
 
Upperdeck
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:03 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:40 am

Quoting btblue (Reply 77):
Could force not pull with it some small parts - causing elements of the engine to contact and burn?

Fractured a pipe or something like that?

Don't forget both engine cowlings are missing...

I'll admit at this stage it's got me stumped!
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3262
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 12:37 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:41 am

From a pilot's perspective, it sounds very much like a non-event to me. EFATOs, engine fire drills and single engine operations are taught and tested from the first day you ever step into a multi-engine piston aircraft. It will be covered extensively in type rating and re-covered in sim checks.

Of course, from a passenger's perspective it is much more dramatic, and such a description of the event won't sell the Daily Mail any newspapers.
 
sankaps
Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:51 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:45 am

Quoting btblue (Reply 72):
There are some clear close-up shot on the daily mail website:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html

It says "British Airways has said it has cancelled all its short-haul flights in and out of Heathrow until 4pm today following the emergency landing.".

Wonder if that is to clear backlog caused by the runways being closed, or to inspect the cowlings, or both.

[Edited 2013-05-24 04:56:25]
 
Upperdeck
Posts: 63
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:47 am

The PIC is getting kudos from the Airline Pilots Association for pointing the aircraft into the wind after landing to ensure any flames were not blown onto the fuselage...
 
sankaps
Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:51 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:49 am

Quoting upperdeck (Reply 74):
How would the removal of the cowlings cause the apparent engine fire?

Also why would it cause one engine to apparently shut down?
 
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Btblue
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:50 am

Quoting sankaps (Reply 81):

Take what they say with a pinch of salt... Both runways appear to be operating now - at least from what I can tell in flightradar24.com

Sorry - you're right. I wonder if it's to check its fleet?

[Edited 2013-05-24 04:56:04]
 
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Btblue
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RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:53 am

Quoting upperdeck (Reply 82):
The PIC is getting kudos from the Airline Pilots Association for pointing the aircraft into the wind after landing to ensure any flames were not blown onto the fuselage...

Smart move - memories of the British Airtours 737-200 accident, 1985 in Manchester... a lesson learned from that accident.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airtours_Flight_28M
 
ThomasCook
Posts: 738
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:43 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:53 am

BA have canx all shorthaul departures ex LHR until 4pm.

ThomasCook
 
factsonly
Posts: 3105
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:55 am

KLM will be operating a MD-11 into LHR this afternoon to carry delayed passengers:

- dep. AMS 15:15 - arr. LHR 15.30 - KL 1019 / McDonnell Douglas MD-11 / PH-KCE

[Edited 2013-05-24 05:18:25]
 
draigonair
Posts: 624
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 8:37 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:55 am

Also now on aviationherald;

http://avherald.com/h?article=462beb5e&opt=4096

The article says that first the left hand engine cowling doors came off and then during her return to London, the right hand engine cowling doors came off (both associated with a bang). Didn't say anything about shutting down an engine.
cheers
 
draigonair
Posts: 624
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 8:37 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:57 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 87):
KLM will operating a MD-11 into LHR this afternoon to carry delayed passengers:

- dep. AMS 15:15 - arr. LHR 15.30 - KL 1019 / McDonnell Douglas MD-11 / PH-KCE

Anyone in for a 45min flight on the good old 11?  
cheers
 
CXfirst
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:13 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 11:59 am

From videos and photos, it always surprises me how many passengers evacuate with their hand luggage. Can really cause problems when evacuation times increase with hand luggage being taken out from under the seat or even worse, overhead lockers.

-CXfirst
 
MerlinIIIB
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:32 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 12:07 pm

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 80):

From a pilot's perspective, it sounds very much like a non-event to me.

Even if both engines are affected incl. reduced performance?

[Edited 2013-05-24 05:11:34]
 
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garpd
Posts: 2557
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 12:10 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 81):

Wonder if that is to clear backlog caused by the runways being closed, or to inspect the cowlings, or both.

My guess is the former. LHR as we know is busy, busy, busy.

Why on earth did they shut both runways down? The plane was only stationary on one of them. I do not see how that would affect the other runway.

Unless of course it was to check for debris?!
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
odo
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 12:15 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 93):
Why on earth did they shut both runways down? The plane was only stationary on one of them. I do not see how that would affect the other runway.

When fire service is tied up with an accident, sufficient readiness can't be maintained for other traffic to operate normally.

//odo
Failure is always an option.
 
GLAGAZ
Posts: 1844
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:42 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 12:20 pm

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 80):
From a pilot's perspective, it sounds very much like a non-event to me.

Certainly not a non-event!

Obviously the training covers this sort of thing extensively but to call it a non-event?!
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
bthebest
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:35 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 12:21 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 93):
Why on earth did they shut both runways down? The plane was only stationary on one of them. I do not see how that would affect the other runway.

You want to clear traffic from the entire area so, if the aircraft needed to land on either runway for whatever reason it can do.
 
bthebest
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:35 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 12:24 pm

Quoting btblue (Reply 72):
Anybody know if this aircraft was operating yesterday? Was it in for maintenance?

Flew Berlin, Paris, Stavanger yesterday. Obviously some line mx could have been done at LHR but not and heavy mx likely.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10358
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 12:30 pm

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 80):
From a pilot's perspective, it sounds very much like a non-event to me. EFATOs, engine fire drills and single engine operations are taught and tested from the first day you ever step into a multi-engine piston aircraft. It will be covered extensively in type rating and re-covered in sim checks.

Really dude? Dual engine failure on a twin engine airplane, is a non-event? What exactly qualifies as an "event" for you? A crash with everyone dead?  
 
katekebo
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 12:02 am

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 12:31 pm

It's purely speculative, but how about ground crews leaving cowlings on both engines unlocked / open after routine checks / maintenance before take-off. The cowlings opened after take-off, the left one without consequences, but the right one hit something causing a fire.

What else could cause BOTH cowlings to open / separate almost immediately after take-off?
 
sandyb123
Posts: 985
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:29 pm

RE: BA A319 Incident At LHR, All Runways Closed

Fri May 24, 2013 12:37 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 93):
Why on earth did they shut both runways down? The plane was only stationary on one of them. I do not see how that would affect the other runway. Unless of course it was to check for debris?!

I would imagine if the emergency services were responding to an incident then they would not be able to respond to another incident on the opposite runway?

Any debris would have been on the runway the aircraft landed on.

Thank goodness it all ended well.

Sandyb123
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