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intermodal64
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AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:15 pm

I'm curious to understand AA's strategy for going with 3-4-3 economy seating in their 777-300's. (I understand the -200's will soon be reconfigured to 10 across as well.) Rather than bashing them for this, I want to know how this makes strategic sense when their biggest rivals still have 9 across. For example, do they believe they will become the economy class pricing leader internationally? Do they think their move will entice all of the other international carriers serving North America to opt for similar densities? Anyone care to guess what their research showed?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:24 pm

Quoting intermodal64 (Thread starter):
Do they think their move will entice all of the other international carriers serving North America to opt for similar densities?

Air France fleet of 777 has 10 seats across. KLM and TAM 77W too, and AC is set to take delivery of 5 new 77W with 3-4-3 configuration.
 
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N62NA
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:28 pm

It makes total sense to be able to cram in one more person per row in economy since the folks flying in economy really just care about getting a good, low price. (Not ALL of them, but most of them). Welcome to commercial flying in the 21st century!
 
intermodal64
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:35 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 1):
Air France fleet of 777 has 10 seats across. KLM and TAM 77W too, and AC is set to take delivery of 5 new 77W with 3-4-3 configuration.

For Air France and KLM, I thought these were special configurations for leisure destinations. Is this "airline speak" for "this is what we tell people until we can get all of the -200's reconfigured?"
 
FWAERJ
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:39 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 1):
Air France fleet of 777 has 10 seats across. KLM and TAM 77W too, and AC is set to take delivery of 5 new 77W with 3-4-3 configuration.

Don't forget EK, who started the trend for 3-4-3 on the 777...
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
Viscount724
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:41 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 2):
It makes total sense to be able to cram in one more person per row in economy since the folks flying in economy really just care about getting a good, low price. (Not ALL of them, but most of them). Welcome to commercial flying in the 21st century!

Agree, that's the unfortunate trend. 90% (probably more) of longhaul Y passengers only fly once a year (or less) and have no idea about seating configurations on competitors and are only interested in the fare.

I expect AA is hoping that the few passengers who do care about seating comfort will be willing to upgrade to Y+. And, fortunately, there are still many options on other aircraft types with much more civilized seating configurations, especially the 767 and A330/340.
 
Gasman
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:44 pm

And also NZ who use the 3-4-3 config on their 77Ws. 10 abreast on a 777 feels horrible and claustrophobic, worlds different from a 3-4-3 cabin on a 744. Having flown it long haul once many years ago on EK, I now refuse to fly on a 777 with that setup.
 
Sancho99504
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:44 pm

Main Cabin Extra on the 77E and 77W will be 3-3-3 with 35-37" of pitch.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
roseflyer
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:46 pm

AA is differentiating the premium economy passengers who will pay a little extra for legroom and seat width from those who want the cheapest seat possible. It is a smart business strategy even though there are countless people who whine about 10 abreast. For those who really care and will pay a little extra, AA has a product for them while also appeasing the masses that care about getting to their destination for the lowest price possible.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
SuperDash
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:46 pm

What I like about AA's config:

1) They simply get more seats.
2) Main Cabin Extra is much more attractive for a buy up as they only have 9 across (giving you both leg room and a bit more seat space too). That is a differentiation from United and Delta
3) Biz class...all aisle access....the only way to fly biz class...again that's a revenue up take opportunity
 
Tupolev160
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:49 pm

All i regret is that nobody seems to operate the 2-5-2 configuration any more, which seems to me the most humane on the 777. If 3-3-3 seems crowded in the meal time, then can only imagine the 3-4-3, must be hell on a 10+ hours flight (such as DXB-GRU).
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
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Stitch
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:49 pm

Quoting intermodal64 (Thread starter):
Rather than bashing them for this, I want to know how this makes strategic sense when their biggest rivals still have 9 across.

More seats means lower CASM which allows AA to lower fares which generates traffic to fill those extra seats.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:55 pm

Quoting intermodal64 (Reply 3):
For Air France and KLM, I thought these were special configurations for leisure destinations. Is this "airline speak" for "this is what we tell people until we can get all of the -200's reconfigured?"

All Air France 777 have a 3-4-3 config, plus a small premium economy section with 2-4-2.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
Don't forget EK, who started the trend for 3-4-3 on the 777...

Yes, and Swiss might join the ranks.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 10):
All i regret is that nobody seems to operate the 2-5-2 configuration any more, which seems to me the most humane on the 777.

Humane ? I've never enjoyed being stuck there in the middle with two passengers on both sides, and from what I've heard and read, I'm not alone.
 
intermodal64
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:55 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 2):
It makes total sense to be able to cram in one more person per row in economy since the folks flying in economy really just care about getting a good, low price.

Where will they draw the line? Why not convert 767's to 8 across and A-330's to 9 across? I'm not being sarcastic. What is it about the 777 that makes narrow seats and narrow aisles so enticing for the bean counters (who probably fly business class without paying for it)?
 
commavia
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Quoting intermodal64 (Thread starter):
I'm curious to understand AA's strategy for going with 3-4-3 economy seating in their 777-300's.

AA's strategy is simple: cramming more seats in lowers the marginal cost per seat (essentially the same fixed costs spread over more seats). As others have said, they are price-discriminating their Y customers by providing a buy-up opportunity for those Y customers who still value more seat width and legroom.

The financial calculus for AA is thus (using nice round numbers): sell 200 Y seats at $500/seat or sell 175 seats at $500/seat plus 50 seats at $600/seat.
 
Viscount724
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:04 pm

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 10):
All i regret is that nobody seems to operate the 2-5-2 configuration any more, which seems to me the most humane on the 777.

Not if you're in the middle seat of the 5-abreast section. 3-3-3 also gives a higher probability of having an empty seat next to you if the flight isn't full. I've also found that the 2-5-2 configuration means a long reach to the overhead bins in the center section.

I believe 3-3-3 also reduces the number of under-seat IFE control boxes from 4 to 3. Also reduces the number of different types of seat units and spare parts needed.
 
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Stitch
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:06 pm

Quoting intermodal64 (Reply 13):
What is it about the 777 that makes narrow seats and narrow aisles so enticing for the bean counters (who probably fly business class without paying for it)?

The wider fuselage. At 10-abreast, a 777 seat and aisle width are around 17 inches each. At 8-abreast on the 767 and 9-abreast on the A330, seat and aisle widths are closer to 16 inches.
 
Sancho99504
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:07 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):
As others have said, they are price-discriminating their Y customers by providing a buy-up opportunity for those Y customers who still value more seat width and legroom.

That is not price-discrimination. One set of economy customers demand the lowest prices and as such get exactly what they pay for. Another set of economy customers can't justify paying business or first class prices and find premium economy pricing to be justifiable for their needs and they get what they pay for. That's what the market will bare.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:09 pm

Quoting intermodal64 (Reply 13):
Where will they draw the line? Why not convert 767's to 8 across and A-330's to 9 across?

Cabin width: B777 19ft 3in; A330 17ft 4in & B767 15ft 6in. As you can see, there's a difference of about two feet between each types. The cabin of the 747 is 20ft wide, which is less than a foot wider than the 777.



[Edited 2013-06-02 16:12:30]
 
intermodal64
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:18 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
The wider fuselage. At 10-abreast, a 777 seat and aisle width are around 17 inches each. At 8-abreast on the 767 and 9-abreast on the A330, seat and aisle widths are closer to 16 inches.

When I said, "bring back the golden age of travel," I didn't mean the original seat width of the 707! (I take it that a 10 across 777 is about like a 757.)
 
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N62NA
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:21 pm

Quoting intermodal64 (Reply 19):
When I said, "bring back the golden age of travel," I didn't mean the original seat width of the 707!

The only way the "golden age of travel" is coming back is if oil falls below $20/bbl. In other words, never gonna happen.
 
AA94
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:07 am

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 10):
All i regret is that nobody seems to operate the 2-5-2 configuration any more, which seems to me the most humane on the 777. If 3-3-3 seems crowded in the meal time, then can only imagine the 3-4-3, must be hell on a 10+ hours flight (such as DXB-GRU).

Humane only if you're not seated in the middle section. I'd much prefer 3-4-3 than being seated in the very middle seat on 2-5-2.
 
intermodal64
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:07 am

Quoting superdash (Reply 9):
What I like about AA's config:

1) They simply get more seats.
2) Main Cabin Extra is much more attractive for a buy up as they only have 9 across (giving you both leg room and a bit more seat space too). That is a differentiation from United and Delta
3) Biz class...all aisle access....the only way to fly biz class...again that's a revenue up take opportunity

I think AA will need more MCE seats, then. AA 777-300 has 30 MCE seats while UA 777-200 has 110 Economy Plus seats.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:10 am

The problem is that a lot of businesses keep increasing the flight length to get a business ticket. My wife started with a Fortune 500 company in 1990. If you were flying trans-con, you could book a ticket in F.

By the time she left in 2006, it was 10 hours, before you could book in J. I don't know if UA had Economy Plus for trans-Atlantic by that time, but I have the suspicion that the company wouldn't have paid for getting into the front of the coach cabin, with extra leg room.

Granted, a lot of people who fly for business fly enough to get elite status and potential upgrades to front of the coach cabin or better. But for the infrequent business traveler who is limited by company travel policies, he or she is potentially stuck in the back of a 777. If he wants to upgrade to the front of the cabin, then he has to shell out his own money.
 
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cosyr
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:15 am

Quoting superdash (Reply 9):
What I like about AA's config:

1) They simply get more seats.
2) Main Cabin Extra is much more attractive for a buy up as they only have 9 across (giving you both leg room and a bit more seat space too). That is a differentiation from United and Delta
3) Biz class...all aisle access....the only way to fly biz class...again that's a revenue up take opportunity

Do you work for American? How is paying extra for 9 across differentiation from UA and DL, when they both have 9 across, and extra legroom available?
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:26 am

What would be the downside to 2-6-2 seating? Assuming ABCDEFGHIJ seating, both E & F would only have two seats to pass to get to either aisle just as the middle seat on the current 2-4-2 config.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
Viscount724
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:37 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 25):
What would be the downside to 2-6-2 seating? Assuming ABCDEFGHIJ seating, both E & F would only have two seats to pass to get to either aisle just as the middle seat on the current 2-4-2 config.

Assume you mean the "current 2-5-2 config"? The downside to 2-6-2 would be that there would be 2 horrible middle seats at least 2 seats from an aisle. With 3-4-3, no middle seat passenger is more than one seat from an aisle. The thought of being crammed in a narrow 10-abreast 777 seat with 2 passengers on one side and 3 on the other is too frightening to contemplate.

I expect 2-6-2 would also create certification problems as it would probably take longer to evacuate. Boarding would also be slower as more passengers would have to leave their seats to let passengers in the more numerous middle seats reach their seats.. And the overhead bins in the center section would be an even longer reach than with 2-5-2.
 
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N62NA
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:45 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 26):
The downside to 2-6-2 would be that there would be 2 horrible middle seats at least 2 seats from an aisle.

I'd like to point out that in the narrowbody vs widebody TATL topics that come up from time to time, the narrowbody advocates point out that "you have the same amount of personal space on a narrowbody vs a widebody" so I'm wondering if that same argument would fly here.
 
ChazPilot
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:04 am

As someone who flies economy frequently each year for work (short and long haul alike), I am by no means a fan of 3-4-3 config. on a 777 and will avoid it like the plague for long hauls as long as I have the option. However, keep in mind that new seats of today are remarkably more space economical than those of even just last decade. I haven't seen AA's new product, but if they've invested in those slim line type seats that I see more of, then perhaps they can add an extra seat across without it seeming more confined for the pax. Today's tech. makes ergonomic designs with lumbar support and slim hard shell backs quite common.....seats that you can practically fit between your thumb and forefinger!
 
gaystudpilot
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:22 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 18):
Cabin width: B777 19ft 3in... 747 is 20ft wide

9" is a tight fit.

The 747 originally had 2-4-3 seating. When 3-4-3 was introduced people thought it was tight. Regardless of pax price sensitivity, 3-4-3 on the 777 is really tight.
 
intermodal64
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:51 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 25):
What would be the downside to 2-6-2 seating? Assuming ABCDEFGHIJ seating, both E & F would only have two seats to pass to get to either aisle just as the middle seat on the current 2-4-2 config.

Now you have me wondering about a 747 with 3-5-3.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:53 am

Quoting ChazPilot (Reply 28):
I haven't seen AA's new product, but if they've invested in those slim line type seats that I see more of, then perhaps they can add an extra seat across without it seeming more confined for the pax.

I am eager for an explanation as to how a thinner seat shell gives more shoulder room for more seats per row.

This has got to be some function of narrower seats, narrower arm rests, or narrower aisles - all of which will contribute to passenger discomfort.
 
blueflyer
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:59 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 1):
AC is set to take delivery of 5 new 77W with 3-4-3 configuration.

Didn't AC go to great pains to claim that this configuration, front and back, is a one-off (or five-off I guess) that in no way indicates future plans?
 
JAAlbert
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:33 am

Quoting gaystudpilot (Reply 29):
The 747 originally had 2-4-3 seating. When 3-4-3 was introduced people thought it was tight. Regardless of pax price sensitivity, 3-4-3 on the 777 is really tight.

My sister, who knows absolutely nothing about airliners, recently flew EK from DFW - DXB. She commented that she couldn't believe how many people they "stuffed" (to use her word) into the economy section. She mentioned that it felt tight - and she is a petite woman.
 
bohica
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:46 am

Quoting intermodal64 (Reply 13):
Why not convert 767's to 8 across and A-330's to 9 across?

Some charter carriers have done that.

For those who think 10 across in a 777 is bad, try it in a DC-10. I had the displeasure of being stuck in a 3-4-3 Y cabin of a DC-10 one time. The cabin of a DC-10 is about a foot narrower than a 777.   
 
davies2911
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:09 am

Quoting bohica (Reply 34):
Why not convert 767's to 8 across and A-330's to 9 across?

Some charter carriers have done that.

I have done that with TOM before they reconfigured the planes to give the extra legroom they do now.

Eight hours on a 2-4-2 763ER seating 328 people, not pleasant at all. If a ten abreast 777 is anything like that, id rather stop flying than go through that again.

There must be a section of the market that cannot afford to upgrade even to Y+, the question is will these types be put off flying in the long run cause of it?
 
PDX88
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:37 am

I'm sorry, but I find the discomfort of 3-4-3 to be extremely over-exaggerated. I don't hear anyone groaning about their 17" seat width on their latest 737 flight, but the exact same seat width on a 777 and all of a sudden "it's just so unbearably tight." And for anyone who is going to follow up trying to tell me there's a difference, I'd love to hear the logic of how many different types of 17" there are.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:57 am

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 36):
I'm sorry, but I find the discomfort of 3-4-3 to be extremely over-exaggerated. I don't hear anyone groaning about their 17" seat width on their latest 737 flight, but the exact same seat width on a 777 and all of a sudden "it's just so unbearably tight." And for anyone who is going to follow up trying to tell me there's a difference, I'd love to hear the logic of how many different types of 17" there are.

I'm pretty sure that a 10Y 777 isn't totally equivalent to a 6Y 737, as you also end up with with very narrow aisles, so less place for to spread yourself out into, and a high chance of being bumped into.

And there's a massive difference between a 2 to 4 hour journey and a 10 to 12 hour journey.
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
SIA747Megatop
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:25 am

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 36):
I'm sorry, but I find the discomfort of 3-4-3 to be extremely over-exaggerated. I don't hear anyone groaning about their 17" seat width on their latest 737 flight, but the exact same seat width on a 777 and all of a sudden "it's just so unbearably tight." And for anyone who is going to follow up trying to tell me there's a difference, I'd love to hear the logic of how many different types of 17" there are.

Let me know the next time you fly a 737 from DFW to GRU, NRT or LHR.

Edit: For the record, when your average flight is on an SQ 777 with 19" Y, 30" J and 35" F seats that 17" A320/737 is a real pain in the backside.

[Edited 2013-06-03 02:30:49]
I found the edit signature button
 
qfflyer
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:05 am

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 36):
I'm sorry, but I find the discomfort of 3-4-3 to be extremely over-exaggerated

I agree. I had my first experiences in a 3-4-3 EK 777 last week...and didn't realise/forgot that it was 3-4-3 until I thought about it a long time after the flight...
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:14 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 32):
Didn't AC go to great pains to claim that this configuration, front and back, is a one-off (or five-off I guess) that in no way indicates future plans?

That's indeed what they have said, and I was just answering one of OP's questions.
 
PDX88
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:00 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 37):
Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 38):

I've been on AS from PDX-HNL, that's 6 hours. I didn't start a thread saying the 737 should be at 2-3 instead of 3-3. I was just fine, and could have lasted the extra 4 if I was flying, say, DFW-GRU.
 
manu
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:48 am

My first (and last) experience on EK was their 777 with 3-4-3. I refused to fly with them after this. I am by no means big, but tall--at 6'1", these "ergonomics" are getting insane. When will being tall become a disability because we can't fit into a seat? AA will not get my business on these aircraft, and any other airline with 17 inch width for flights great than an average workday.
 
intermodal64
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:34 pm

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 36):
I'm sorry, but I find the discomfort of 3-4-3 to be extremely over-exaggerated. I don't hear anyone groaning about their 17" seat width on their latest 737 flight, but the exact same seat width on a 777 and all of a sudden "it's just so unbearably tight." And for anyone who is going to follow up trying to tell me there's a difference, I'd love to hear the logic of how many different types of 17" there are.

If the 10Y 777 is equivalent to a 757, then it's not so bad. Their logic in reconfiguring is clearer to me now. (I originally thought a 10Y 777 was more like a 10Y DC-10.) Looking at my own behavior, though, I avoid 757 trans-Atlantic flights. I do think AA will need more than 30 MCE seats if maintaining loyalty means anything to them.

I recall that AA was among the first of the US carriers to convert their DC-10's from 8 across to 9 across. Then the others followed closely behind. (Though NW was the last hold-out.) And that was still in the days of CAB regulation.
 
jayunited
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RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:21 pm

Quoting superdash (Reply 9):
What I like about AA's config:

1) They simply get more seats.
2) Main Cabin Extra is much more attractive for a buy up as they only have 9 across (giving you both leg room and a bit more seat space too). That is a differentiation from United and Delta
3) Biz class...all aisle access....the only way to fly biz class...again that's a revenue up take opportunity

How many MCE seats will AA have on the 777-200 once they start the reconfiguration? While UA seating arrangement is 3-3-3- through out coach about 110 of those seats are E+ giving those passenger 5 inches of extra legroom and offering more passengers who are in E- a chance to buy a E+ seat. If AA 777-300 MCE cabin is going to be the standard size MCE cabin on their entire 777 fleet going forward then MCE will not benefit a lot of people flying in coach only 30 people will have extra room and unless you have forgotten UA's international 777 only have 9 across and the seat width is 18" so all UA passengers in coach are enjoying more shoulder room while only 30 of AA customers are enjoying a MCE seat who width is 18" while everybody else in coach has to squeeze into a seat thats only 17". I know it's not much difference but to say that AA coach configuration is better than DL or UA coach config is wrong the 3-4-3 only benefits AA because they are able to squeeze more seats onto the aircraft which could translate into more money flowing to AA's bottom line.

However I do agree with your assessment of AA's all new business class. Giving each seat access to the aisle beats UA's horrendous set up any day hands down there is no comparison and it doesn't matter whether it is the sUA or sCO 777 AA new business class beats both of UA's business class cabins any day. Great job with the business class cabin AA but I think MCE cabin needs to be bigger 30 seat isn't enough.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:26 pm

Quoting intermodal64 (Reply 43):
(I originally thought a 10Y 777 was more like a 10Y DC-10.)

The 777 is 1ft 1in wider than the DC-10, and besides charter/supplemental airlines from around the world, there has been a few scheduled that had them with 10Y like IW that used to fly theirs on routes like ORY-CMB-SYD-NOU or ORY-LAX-PPT.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2600
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:42 pm

Quoting bohica (Reply 34):

For those who think 10 across in a 777 is bad, try it in a DC-10. I had the displeasure of being stuck in a 3-4-3 Y cabin of a DC-10 one time. The cabin of a DC-10 is about a foot narrower than a 777.

Was it Omni? I flew them back from deployment 18 months ago and it was TORTURE. About the only good part was knowing I was going home.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:56 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 25):

What would be the downside to 2-6-2 seating? Assuming ABCDEFGHIJ seating, both E & F would only have two seats to pass to get to either aisle just as the middle seat on the current 2-4-2 config.
Quoting davies2911 (Reply 35):
Eight hours on a 2-4-2 763ER seating 328 people, not pleasant at all. If a ten abreast 777 is anything like that, id rather stop flying than go through that again.
Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 37):
I'm pretty sure that a 10Y 777 isn't totally equivalent to a 6Y 737, as you also end up with with very narrow aisles, so less place for to spread yourself out into, and a high chance of being bumped into.
Quoting jayunited (Reply 44):
How many MCE seats will AA have on the 777-200 once they start the reconfiguration? While UA seating arrangement is 3-3-3- through out coach about 110 of those seats are E+ giving those passenger 5 inches of extra legroom and offering more passengers who are in E- a chance to buy a E+ seat. If AA 777-300 MCE cabin is going to be the standard size MCE cabin on their entire 777 fleet going forward then MCE will not benefit a lot of people flying in coach only 30 people will have extra room and unless you have forgotten UA's international 777 only have 9 across and the seat width is 18" so all UA passengers in coach are enjoying more shoulder room while only 30 of AA customers are enjoying a MCE seat who width is 18" while everybody else in coach has to squeeze into a seat thats only 17". I know it's not much difference but to say that AA coach configuration is better than DL or UA coach config is wrong the 3-4-3 only benefits AA because they are able to squeeze more seats onto the aircraft which could translate into more money flowing to AA's bottom line.

I did not know that AA was modifying all of their 777's to be 10 across, I thought that they were just doing that with their 77Ws. Actually, I flew the AA 77W last week and really did not notice any difference well except there was an extra seat in the middle and on the sides but they were comfortable as they usually are. I am guessing that the people who don't like it have never tried it or compared it to their old product.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:00 pm

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 36):

I'm sorry, but I find the discomfort of 3-4-3 to be extremely over-exaggerated. I don't hear anyone groaning about their 17" seat width on their latest 737 flight, but the exact same seat width on a 777 and all of a sudden "it's just so unbearably tight." And for anyone who is going to follow up trying to tell me there's a difference, I'd love to hear the logic of how many different types of 17" there are.

When 737s start flying eight-hour trips, then you'll have a point. I can deal with a 17" seat for a few hours, but a long-haul is a completely different story.

Oh well, AA will just have to put a different airplane on a route if they want to get my business. UA, DL and BA still have reasonable configurations on their 777s.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
Dahlgardo
Posts: 479
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

RE: AA 777 3-4-3 In Economy

Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:17 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 48):
When 737s start flying eight-hour trips, then you'll have a point. I can deal with a 17" seat for a few hours, but a long-haul is a completely different story.

Absolutely.

I had the mis-fortune of flying on Aeroflots latest 77W slaveship HKG-SVO.
The flight was completely full and I was stuck in a middle seat with an average sized passenger on each side.
It was a horrible experience, especially when trying to eat. There was no room what-so-ever.

The 77W is becoming a 21st century menace when it comes to traveling in Y, and in most cases a thing to avoid.
I'm not sure if a 9-across 787 will be better. It's going to be tight for sure.

[Edited 2013-06-03 08:18:42]
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