shinton
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Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:07 pm

I know that DFW has had some weather issues in the past several weeks, however, I have noticed that Express Jet flying for American Eagle out of DFW has had some mega delays and it appears it is well beyond the weather issues. What's up? Service is begining to remind me of the ATR-72s when they came back to DFW from SJU.
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:34 pm

They have 12 aircraft flying for AE and no spare. I know, through a friend who flies out of DFW, that mx is the #1 issue. He has had to ferry a plane more than once from an outstation back to ATL due to mx only to see another bird out of service. I know there was a time a few weeks ago when 3 planes were out - that's 25% of their operation!!
 
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Acey559
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:44 pm

Check how many 9300 flight numbers the real Eagle is doing out of DFW. Every single day we're flying multiple segments to cover the flying that was taken away from us. I've heard maintenance and staffing are tough, but surprisingly as those - 200s are junk. I think things are supposed to be better on the staffing issue in the coming months, at least according at one of the Acey pilots I spoke with the other day.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:46 pm

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 2):

Just a correction. It's not your flying.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:50 pm

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 2):
the real Eagle

Was Simmons not "The real Eagle", too?

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 2):
those - 200s are junk

When you run without a spare or two, let's see how well your operation stays together. Plus, ASA has some of the first CRJs in the world. Age is not without problems.

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 2):
flying that was taken away from us

Don't say that to the mainline pilots...

[Edited 2013-06-10 05:59:17]
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Acey559
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:52 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 3):

What was formerly our flying. And I don't mean to sound upset, I understand it's business and the nature of the industry.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:53 pm

Are they adding anymore planes to the rotation for AA?

They're supposed to start CRW, and I believe another few cities this week. I hope we're not inheriting a seemingly "doomed" operation.. or expanding one that has zero room for error.
 
Super80DFW
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:03 pm

Eagle's EMB fleet is no Star fleet, however the ExpressJet CRJ fleet that is flying under the Eagle banner have to be the crappiest planes in the skies these days. They're digging themselves in a big hole by not having any spare planes to use, and at the same time they're also taxing Eagle's DFW operation by causing Eagle to run extra segments with 9300 series flight numbers. It'll be interesting to see how wiling AA is to farm out regional flying to the lowest bidder after this little go-around with ExpressJet..
EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:28 pm

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 7):
They're digging themselves in a big hole by not having any spare planes to use

Based on the description, it sounds to me like AA is trying to schedule too much work for too few airplanes. I.E., EV has 14 airplanes, with 1 supposed to be a spare, but they are running 14 airplanes, and no spare. I wouldn't be so quick to fault EV 100% for maintenance reliability.

From what I understand, Alaska's been doing just that with SkyWest as well.
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mhkansan
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:22 pm

Sometimes, on random days, you can see the EV flight Xd out and cancelled in SABRE and a 9000-series MQ rescue flight to random cities.

Happened all the time in DRO. Completely unreliable and then the CR2 had MTOW issues that the ER4 didn't. Now DRO is back to all Eagle...

Ask any agent or operations personnel at Eagle and none are too impressed with ExpressJet. I think the OO operation at LAX is doing a lot better.
 
jr
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:22 pm

Does anyone know what the reason was for the emergency landing of an eagle/expressjet CRJ in DFW this Saturday (Jun 8)? It did a go around and then landed without incident but was received by a convoy of DFW fire department vehicles that followed it without incident to terminal B.
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
shinton
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:22 am

I noticed today, for example, on DFW-SHV several flights were delayed including one CRJ-200 delayed almost five hours. Didn't American learn from the the ATR-72 issues two plus years ago. Why are the CRJ-200s in such bad shape. DO the Express Jet CRJ-200s flying for Delta have the same issues? Why didn't American have Express Jet fly EMB as Eagle, since American has a huge EMB parts depot?
 
N353SK
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:01 am

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 2):
the real Eagle

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So these airlines weren't the "real eagle" ?
 
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Acey559
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:22 pm

Considering those airlines all make up the current American Eagle sure, that works. I wasn't intending to incite such emotion from people, I simply meant to compare American Eagle Airlines from the American Eagle brand that's being used going forward. Once we get our new name I'll quit saying that, but until then I stand by my statement. I've flown with plenty of BizEx, Command, Simmons, Nashville Eagle etc captains and we're all on the seniority list. Anyway, it was an innocent statement I didn't intend to be taken so harshly. As for the 'our flying' comment, again I could have worded that better, I simply meant flying that was formerly American Eagle Airlines' that is now being done by XJT. Believe me, I'd be happy as a clam if all of our and other regional flying went back to mainline. I hope that sufficiently explains things. There's a reason I became a pilot and not a journalist.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
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United_fan
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:53 pm

Quoting jr (Reply 10):
Does anyone know what the reason was for the emergency landing of an eagle/expressjet CRJ in DFW this Saturday (Jun 8)? It did a go around and then landed without incident but was received by a convoy of DFW fire department vehicles that followed it without incident to terminal B.

Probably stuck flaps,happens in ROC once a month.
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:06 pm

Quoting shinton (Reply 11):
Why didn't American have Express Jet fly EMB as Eagle, since American has a huge EMB parts depot?

Because the ERJ (legacy)( side of XJT is spoken for... as UAX... period. done. They're all on CPA and can't be shifted..

the CRJ's in use for Eagle flying were the second worst of the worst from ASA... the oldest were the ones released by DL a long while back that ASA placed as UAX... the second round DL released from DLCnx were the ones that are now American Eagle flying.....
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
BA0197
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:28 pm

All I can say is that the LAX based CRJs have a coronary at least once a forknight at IAH due to MANX, despite them being relatively new. I think the lack of investment in AE is starting to show, my opinion.
 
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Acey559
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:46 pm

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 16):

Are you talking about the Skywest CRJ-200s based in LA or the American Eagle CRJ-700s?
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
BA0197
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:47 pm

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 17):

The American Egle CRJ-700s
 
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Acey559
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:40 pm

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 18):

I've heard the same thing. Our maintenance is usually pretty good but those CRJs do seem to break a lot relative to their age. I'll have to talk to a couple guys in the crew room and I'll let you know if I find anything interesting.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:56 pm

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 5):

"your" flying?

An outsourcing operation is starting to feel the burn the mainline world has felt for years.

In the words on John McClain "welcome to the party pal!"
 
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N62NA
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:06 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
Quoting Acey559 (Reply 5):

"your" flying?

An outsourcing operation is starting to feel the burn the mainline world has felt for years.

Sheesh, everyone's picking on poor Acey. From his perspective, it was his ("your") flying. Do those of you picking on Acey not see that? Or are you just piling on?
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:40 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 21):

I agree. some people on these forums, though, just like starting arguments
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
shinton
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:21 am

How many of the express jet will end up flying for american at dfw ?
 
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Acey559
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:21 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):

As stated in my post above, 'your' wasn't the best word to use, I was being overly simplistic by meaning flying that we, American Eagle Airlines, had done before XJT was brought in. I also stated that despite my current job, I'd rather flying go back to mainline. Nobody I know wants to be stuck at a regional forever. I hope mainline takes back a lot of the currently outsourced flying, both from my airline and others. Eagle isn't the end of the road for me and I'd like to not see the bottom of this terrible race we're running before I get out of here.

Quoting shinton (Reply 23):

I think it's 12 or 14 right now. That's all for now unless AA decides to add more in the future.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
CO777DAL
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:37 am

What a great way to ruin the ExpressJet name. The real ExpressJet ran a tip top high quality operation when they were Continental Express. The new ExpressJet...  
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
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Acey559
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:14 am

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 25):
The real ExpressJet

Oh you've done it now.  
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
mcdu
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:52 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 8):
I wouldn't be so quick to fault EV 100% for maintenance reliability.

Every EV/OO customer (major carrier) has the same issue with them. They are unreliable and run an extremely poor performing operation. You could potentially line the taxiways at DFW/ORD/SFO/IAD etc with spare EV/OO airplanes and they would still have trouble completing their schedules. It is the same story day in and day out with their operations. Crew cancels for legality, no crew available, maintenance, etc. It never ends with them. They never recover from an Irregular operation, the effects of a single storm can linger for days and days at EV/OO.

If you are the contract carrier and XX airlines say they need this much lift, you have a responsibility to assure that lift is provided. Whether you need 14 and a1spare or 14 and 4 spares. The onus has to fall on the contract company to live up to its obligation.

I am very tired of the express carriers always blaming the major partner for their OWN shortcomings. The major partner doesn't schedule your crews or your maintenance. Own your own faults for a change.
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:07 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 27):
Every EV/OO customer (major carrier) has the same issue with them. They are unreliable and run an extremely poor performing operation. You could potentially line the taxiways at DFW/ORD/SFO/IAD etc with spare EV/OO airplanes and they would still have trouble completing their schedules. It is the same story day in and day out with their operations. Crew cancels for legality, no crew available, maintenance, etc. It never ends with them. They never recover from an Irregular operation, the effects of a single storm can linger for days and days at EV/OO.

If you are the contract carrier and XX airlines say they need this much lift, you have a responsibility to assure that lift is provided. Whether you need 14 and a1spare or 14 and 4 spares. The onus has to fall on the contract company to live up to its obligation.

I am very tired of the express carriers always blaming the major partner for their OWN shortcomings. The major partner doesn't schedule your crews or your maintenance. Own your own faults for a change.

Before you go on your normal regional airline bash-fest:

Let's play by some numbers: EV for the 2013 year thus far has had controllable completion factors at 98.7% on the low side to 99.3% on the high side (factor in it is the largest regional in the world... has over 400 aircraft in the count, and 4500+ pilots... makes it larger than legacy Continental)... I would say they're doing alright and not a litter box on the ramps like you would suggest

just for comparison.... mainline United this month has the following controllable completion: Domestic 98.9% and International is 99.2%

[Edited 2013-06-15 07:14:04]
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
mcdu
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:34 pm

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 28):
Before you go on your normal regional airline bash-fest:

Let's talk about that "completion" factor. The CPA agreements offer have stiff penalties to canceled flights. To keep the illusion of being reliable EV/OO will operate flights 6-7 hours delayed. I am not just referring to the last flight of the night sort of recovery from irregular operations. They will operate these super delayed flights and misconnect hundreds of people throughout the day. Of course they do cancel a significant amount of flying due to lack of crews.

Do you think EV is opening up all those new crew bases just because they wanted to? Of course not. They need those new bases because they have no reserve crews in hubs and have a significant amount of crew delays and cancels during normal operations. Add in irregular operations that occurr weekly due to thunderstorms and their reliability goes even lower.

The OO operation is a bit more reliable from that standpoint in that it doesnt usually get as many or as long of weather impacted ground stops like the east coast. SFO flow delays are an issue but the it is much different beast than a 3 hour ground stop and huge re-routes like they see in the rest of the country.

Of course what should we expect from bids for service that are given to the lowest bidder.
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:41 pm

Regionals are all too cheap. They don't pay any of their employees enough, have high attrition and poorly motivated workers who need to be forced to work by junior manning because it simply isn't worth it to volunteer for a company that already doesn't treat you all that well.

That being said, not all the issues that the regionals have are by their on doing. Regionals fly aircraft with more cycles than most mainline aircraft have. This means planes have more opportunity to break and have less time for preventative maintenance. Regionals are also at the mercy of the mainline carrier in their scheduling and maintenance.

American Eagle struggles on the CRJs at LAX because it has no maintenance in LAX and no CRJ crew base. Mechanics and crew need to be flown in from ORD/DFW. If a crew member calls in sick or calls in fatigued at the last minute, there aren't a lot of options to replace the crews. For the regional, it is hard to plan crew basing because mainline constantly changes were it wants its regionals to be based.

ExpressJet has this same problem as do all the United and Delta express carriers. The regionals all get shuffled throughout the system and this makes it hard for staffing and maintenance.

ExpressJet in DFW has similar issues to Eagle in LAX. ExpressJet does have a crew domicile in DFW but no maintenance. Thus when a plane breaks, company mechanics need to be flown in or drive in from the closest maintenance base. Depending on the issue, it may need specialized mechanics to work on the issue. Availability of parts is also a big issue.

Regionals also struggle with being able to cancel flights. Mainline either doesn't want the flights cancelled or wont let the regional cancel without taking a contractual hit. This causes the regional to operate flights extremely late just to satisfy the mainline carrier. When weather hits a hub, mainline takes the best slots and leaves the crappiest ATC slots to the regionals.

The CRJ200/CRJ700 MEL books are both nearly double the size of the EMB145 MEL book. The CRJ simply has more items that can possibly break than the ERJ does. That's why the CRJ breaks more easily.
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:06 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 29):
Let's talk about that "completion" factor. The CPA agreements offer have stiff penalties to canceled flights. To keep the illusion of being reliable EV/OO will operate flights 6-7 hours delayed. I am not just referring to the last flight of the night sort of recovery from irregular operations. They will operate these super delayed flights and misconnect hundreds of people throughout the day. Of course they do cancel a significant amount of flying due to lack of crews.

Do you think EV is opening up all those new crew bases just because they wanted to? Of course not. They need those new bases because they have no reserve crews in hubs and have a significant amount of crew delays and cancels during normal operations. Add in irregular operations that occurr weekly due to thunderstorms and their reliability goes even lower.

The OO operation is a bit more reliable from that standpoint in that it doesnt usually get as many or as long of weather impacted ground stops like the east coast. SFO flow delays are an issue but the it is much different beast than a 3 hour ground stop and huge re-routes like they see in the rest of the country.

Of course what should we expect from bids for service that are given to the lowest bidder.

Oh... alright... since you insist.. lets take it to the next matrix of comparison:

On time Performance:
UA Mainline Intl. MTD - D0 - 68.2%
UA Express Intl. MTD - D0 - 62.5%

UA Mainline Domestic MTD - D0 - 53.8%
UA Express Domestic MTD - D0 - 57.4%

As a whole, UAX controllable completion factors for the month is running: 96.1% and 95.1% Dom/Intl... so EV is well above standard... before you continue just bashing whichever regional crosses your path.. at least get some resources and numbers to back up your statements.

I'm all for mainline doing all the flying.. but you bash regionals and their employees like they've done you personal harm when it was mainline management coupled with mainline pilots' short sighted contract negotiations followed by bankruptcy exploitation that created the current regional dynamic.

[Edited 2013-06-15 09:06:53]
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
shinton
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:27 pm

I think that it is bad news when American Eagle allows Express Jet CRJs to dominate a market like Texarkana where all three flights are CRJs given the AE CRJs issues. Why not mix CRJs and EMB into the different AE cities ? Any issues passengers are out of luck unless AE runs a 9300 flight or a chartered bus

For Express Jet what work on the aircrafts does the maintenance people do in Shreveport and Baton Rouge? I assume both locations work on EMBs and CRJs? I know in Shreveport a CRJ broke and the part had to come from Baton Rouge. I was impressed that the Express Jet pilot with two CRJs sitting at SHV (with one down and his flight being the first departure, but it being the broken CRJ) called ATL and we were able to get out of SHV.
 
mcdu
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 31):
I'm all for mainline doing all the flying.. but you bash regionals and their employees like they've done you personal harm when it was mainline management coupled with mainline pilots' short sighted contract negotiations followed by bankruptcy exploitation that created the current regional dynamic.

That is one really long sentence. Let me dissect a few bits. The RJ contract at my airline for pilots was pitched as the RJ's would be used in Conjunction with mainline service, not as replacement. The company also gave us a choice. They would either buy more 747's and 777's or they could buy RJ's. Those are the facts and I suspect you were not in the industry when that took place so you have been fed a line from the lifetime RJ pilots at your carrier to justify the existence and again place blame with someone other than your own airline for your shortcomings. That must be an entire day class at RJ school in how to not accept any responsibility for anything.

Last week I was flying an international flight. At departure time we were adjusted to a :30 minute delay. Why? Waiting for several connections coming from a delayed RJ that was parking at our sked dept time. After :30 minutes the ramp called on the interphone to let us know it would be a bit longer as UAX had just delivered the bags plane side. From our gate to the UAx flight was maybe 300 yards and it took :30 minutes to get the bags that far. We were flying to a large international connection airport which was going to drive misconnects on the other end. All the passengers hurried to be delayed for the UAX baggage people.

As a commuter I see it weekly with express. The slow motion dance that the ramp performs in unloading carry'ons or no one to park the plane. Add that the numerous delays and cancels it points a lot of fingers in the direction of the contract carriers. For several years I rode AA eagle to and from LAX and avoided the Skywest UAX flights. The Eagle experience was always much better than UAX of DL Connection by Skywest experience. Eagle was and is a great product that was a seamless as possible.

As for your statement that the regional employees have done me personal harm. I would be more than happy to fill up many ways that regionals have hurt my fellow employees and my company. With pilot hiring starting again at my carrier I do hope we can find good pilots from corporate and military flying. The regional pilots are not what we need in our cockpits in the future. We need pilots willing to understand customer needs like corporate pilots and those with a strong leadership background like the military. RJ crews tend not to demonstrate either of these qualities.
 
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antoniemey
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:19 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 29):
To keep the illusion of being reliable EV/OO will operate flights 6-7 hours delayed.

In my experience, which is limited to one city with service to 6 hubs, the former XE ops of EV will cancel 99% of flights that are more than 4 hours delayed. That leftover percent is the last flight of the day you referenced.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:23 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 33):
That is one really long sentence. Let me dissect a few bits. The RJ contract at my airline for pilots was pitched as the RJ's would be used in Conjunction with mainline service, not as replacement. The company also gave us a choice. They would either buy more 747's and 777's or they could buy RJ's. Those are the facts and I suspect you were not in the industry when that took place so you have been fed a line from the lifetime RJ pilots at your carrier to justify the existence and again place blame with someone other than your own airline for your shortcomings. That must be an entire day class at RJ school in how to not accept any responsibility for anything.

Last week I was flying an international flight. At departure time we were adjusted to a :30 minute delay. Why? Waiting for several connections coming from a delayed RJ that was parking at our sked dept time. After :30 minutes the ramp called on the interphone to let us know it would be a bit longer as UAX had just delivered the bags plane side. From our gate to the UAx flight was maybe 300 yards and it took :30 minutes to get the bags that far. We were flying to a large international connection airport which was going to drive misconnects on the other end. All the passengers hurried to be delayed for the UAX baggage people.

As a commuter I see it weekly with express. The slow motion dance that the ramp performs in unloading carry'ons or no one to park the plane. Add that the numerous delays and cancels it points a lot of fingers in the direction of the contract carriers. For several years I rode AA eagle to and from LAX and avoided the Skywest UAX flights. The Eagle experience was always much better than UAX of DL Connection by Skywest experience. Eagle was and is a great product that was a seamless as possible.

As for your statement that the regional employees have done me personal harm. I would be more than happy to fill up many ways that regionals have hurt my fellow employees and my company. With pilot hiring starting again at my carrier I do hope we can find good pilots from corporate and military flying. The regional pilots are not what we need in our cockpits in the future. We need pilots willing to understand customer needs like corporate pilots and those with a strong leadership background like the military. RJ crews tend not to demonstrate either of these qualities.

Hey, need a napkin for all the excess venom? Seems you are making a mess splashing it all around again. You might want to keep that visceral disdain for other professionals sharing your field to yourself. It gives you an ugly appearance.

For the record though, while I may fly for a regional at present, I have worked for a few mainline carriers in my day doing things other than flying... I personally was furloughed from my said mainline carrier on 9/11. I have been through another mainline's bankruptcy. I have taken my concessions to keep my carrier and my colleagues working. I have watched as my mainline took what they had created, and took away my pass travel, my flow through, my contracts, and even allowed their merger partner's employees and their buddy pass riders to travel above me. You can wish and hope and pray that you'll avoid having regional pilots fill your void.. but, wishing doesn't stop the change. Gone are the days of all military mainlines. Military pilots have better stability staying military. Corporate flying is more lucrative than your mainline. Regional pilots are the ones that are the true airline guys. The ones who like the airlines. The ones who are the majority of the applicants at the mainlines. Whether you like it or not... You will be surrounded with more and more regional guys over the coming years. Thankfully, in all my jumpseating over the years, guys that actively demean other professionals are few and far between... sure, you think there are a lot of you, but you're more isolated than ever and on the fast way out.
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:35 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 27):
Every EV/OO customer (major carrier) has the same issue with them.

If you say so. Hearsay isn't evidence.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 27):
If you are the contract carrier and XX airlines say they need this much lift, you have a responsibility to assure that lift is provided. Whether you need 14 and a1spare or 14 and 4 spares. The onus has to fall on the contract company to live up to its obligation.

Yes, BUT, when you are only contracted for X airplanes, and the schedule you are handed is for X airplanes +1, you really have no other way to comply with it, except to fly it. When your spare is being used, that really makes it extremely hard when something breaks.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 27):
I am very tired of the express carriers always blaming the major partner for their OWN shortcomings. The major partner doesn't schedule your crews or your maintenance. Own your own faults for a change.

So, the schedule, and flow swaps, and ramp crews *cough* ORD *cough*, etc., etc., is the regional's fault? Try again sir.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 29):
Let's talk about that "completion" factor. The CPA agreements offer have stiff penalties to canceled flights.

So, you have access to priviledged information only available to the management teams of either airline? Please, do tell.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 29):
Of course they do cancel a significant amount of flying due to lack of crews.

And you know this how?

Quoting mcdu (Reply 29):
The OO operation is a bit more reliable from that standpoint in that it doesnt usually get as many or as long of weather impacted ground stops like the east coast.

The east coast sucks in general, but that said, OO was always a west coast airline. It's only recently that they've been creeping into east coast markets from ORD, MSP, DTW, ATL, IAD, and IAH.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 29):
Of course what should we expect from bids for service that are given to the lowest bidder.

The best value, which may or may not be the lowest bidder.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 29):
Do you think EV is opening up all those new crew bases just because they wanted to? Of course not. They need those new bases because they have no reserve crews in hubs and have a significant amount of crew delays and cancels during normal operations.

The lack of bases and reserves at them was a big problem. DEN especially. An overall "lack" of crews wasn't a problem.

Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Reply 30):
Regionals are all too cheap. They don't pay any of their employees enough, have high attrition and poorly motivated workers who need to be forced to work by junior manning because it simply isn't worth it to volunteer for a company that already doesn't treat you all that well.

An extremely loaded, and completely untrue statement.

Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Reply 30):
The CRJ200/CRJ700 MEL books are both nearly double the size of the EMB145 MEL book. The CRJ simply has more items that can possibly break than the ERJ does. That's why the CRJ breaks more easily.

There's more items in the MEL, yes, but that just means there's more things that can be MEL'd. It doesn't mean that there's more things that could ground an airplane.

Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Reply 30):
ExpressJet has this same problem as do all the United and Delta express carriers. The regionals all get shuffled throughout the system and this makes it hard for staffing and maintenance.

This is true, to a limited degree. Mainline scheduling shouldn't be scheduling that many flights into a hub that doesn't have a nearby crew base.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 33):
The RJ contract at my airline for pilots was pitched as the RJ's would be used in Conjunction with mainline service, not as replacement.

So, deal with your management. Don't take it out on the regionals, or their employees.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 33):
Those are the facts and I suspect you were not in the industry when that took place so you have been fed a line from the lifetime RJ pilots at your carrier to justify the existence and again place blame with someone other than your own airline for your shortcomings. That must be an entire day class at RJ school in how to not accept any responsibility for anything.

Pot, kettle. Take some resonsibility for your pilot's actions. No one "stole" your flying; you GAVE it to them.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 33):
For several years I rode AA eagle to and from LAX and avoided the Skywest UAX flights. The Eagle experience was always much better than UAX of DL Connection by Skywest experience.

Gee... since you constantly rag on anything and everything SkyWest related, it's sure not hard for you to say this, you know, because they "stole" your flying.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 33):
With pilot hiring starting again at my carrier I do hope we can find good pilots from corporate and military flying.

Yeah, good luck with that. Corporate pilots are happier flying corporate. Military guys don't want to go the airline route, and there's nowhere near enough of them to fill "your" ranks anyhow.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 33):
The regional pilots are not what we need in our cockpits in the future. We need pilots willing to understand customer needs like corporate pilots and those with a strong leadership background like the military. RJ crews tend not to demonstrate either of these qualities.

"Understand customer needs"? You mean, like getting to their destination? Yeah, when your airline op-blocks like they do, it's makes it EASIER for them to understand customer needs, because both crew and passengers are dealing with the same crap that your airline's putting them through.

Good luck filling your ranks. With statements like that, who would want to work for your airline knowing that they'd have to fly with you one day?

[Edited 2013-06-15 13:43:59]
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ThePinnacleKid
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:47 am

RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:47 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 33):
The company also gave us a choice. They would either buy more 747's and 777's or they could buy RJ's.

I should have really pointed this one out.. but you in fact are now even saying exactly the "excuse" all us regional guys use when we say mainline pilots created this mess. You yourself stated, they gave us a choice. The MAINLINE pilots elected to have more big planes as oppose to keep all the jet flying in house. Seriously??????? Then you get mad about it???? What did you all think mainline management would do if you elected to get the RJ's??? That they wouldn't buy big planes even though the markets needed them? Goes back to my point of short sighted views of the mainline pilots who could vote on those contracts. How many big planes did it even net? Most guys at the mainline won't even touch those planes as Captains or retire from them. They could have however had a HUGE portion of aircraft on the "smaller" scale that were the DC-9 size (literally)... and with that a MUCH larger buffer for times the market constricts... oh no... so instead, that CHOICE that was given to your group and your group alone... resulted in the current mainline vs. regional dynamic. Awesome.
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
jc2354
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 9:56 am

RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:41 pm

This is a very interesting discussion. With all the maintenance issues, the deadheading of mechanics, what is the criteria, requirements for the basing of mechanics? Do all the hubs have maintenance bases? Any field stations have maintenance?

Thanks
If not now, then when?
 
flight152
Posts: 3408
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:34 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 33):

As a hard working regional pilot, surrounded by other hard working regional pilots, I take offense to your comments. If you don't think we fit the mold of what kind of pilot's you'd like to see at your airline, I'd suggest take a good long look at what we have to deal with on a daily basis. Not only are you obviously so removed from understanding what it is like to try to climb the ranks in an attempt to make a dime in ones career but I'm willing to bet your pretentious attitude has turned off many that has had the pleasure to fly with you.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1516
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:29 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 36):
Yeah, good luck with that. Corporate pilots are happier flying corporate. Military guys don't want to go the airline route, and there's nowhere near enough of them to fill "your" ranks anyhow.

You obviously haven't seen the Applications we have on file. Military, corporate and regionals all make up the list. I only hope we can get the best of those groups. Believing there are not corporate and military pilots seeking jobs at a major carrier is a huge case of denial.

Quoting flight152 (Reply 39):
Not only are you obviously so removed from understanding what it is like to try to climb the ranks in an attempt to make a dime in ones career

If you are the exception to what I see on a weekly basis then by all means welcome aboard. There were several OO pilots that went out of their way to deny jumpseats for LAX pilots over the years. I have always given my jumpseat and quite often my crew meal to express pilots riding along. However, when they start telling me how they and OO are going to be flying B737 or A320's on our routes, that their airplane is called a "guppy killer" etc I save the OMC card and make sure to keep the name. I have a friend that was denied a jumpseat by a OO female RJ Captain at LAX. He made sure to get in touch with the hiring department when apps were being accepted.

Recently I even read on another forum of a OO pilot claiming that my carrier was biased against them in hiring because so many have not been successful in the interview. Perhaps it wasn't bias but some of the past actions catching up to them.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1516
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:58 am

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 37):
The MAINLINE pilots elected to have more big planes as oppose to keep all the jet flying in house.

Read what I wrote previously. The RJ was pitched and promised to be in ADDITION to the current service we already had. The meetings were that the RJ would be added to give the passengers more options in ADDITION to the mainline service we already offered. Have you heard of Roselawn and the TAF? Everyone wanted an RJ to give the passengers a better product. We were lied to by both our management and our union. Wholesale tabling of flying and parking of airplanes while they dumped RJ's into markets and pulled mainline flying out. So yes we voted "yes" but what we got was not what we voted for. Also, the company then reneged on the additional widebody aircraft as 9/11 came in shortly thereafter. Yes, we let the camel into the tent and it tore the tent down.

What the pilots did not do was sign contracts with the poor performing companies like OO and EV. We are bystanders in the game when it comes to who is selected to carry our code. We do have much better protections on flying in the new contract. Scope choke and a few other provisions will hopefully reduce a portion of express flying. We are doing all we can do to get back what we gave up under false pretenses.

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 36):
And you know this how?

And you know this isn't the case how? There are completion stipulations in all of the RJ contracts. If you choose not to believe they are there then suit yourself. Ask Mesa about completion and performance requirements. They know first hand from both UA and DL what happens. If I were to guess I would say EV is getting close to hitting some of the thresholds for penalties in their contract.

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 36):
Gee... since you constantly rag on anything and everything SkyWest related, it's sure not hard for you to say this, you know, because they "stole" your flying.

No not at all. When it comes to getting to work I preferred the reliability and polished product that Eagle put forth versus what OO offered. If I had to ride OO to get to work I would, but it was like a night and day experience between the two. I believe you do a good job of proving my point about OO and the difference in the employees between the two companies. Hardly do you ever see tempestuous writing by Eagle employees, the same can't be said for OO.

[Edited 2013-06-15 19:01:37]
 
User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4384
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:05 am

Just to be clear, it seems that mcdu is a Captain at UA and ThePinnacleKid works in some capacity - though we're not sure - for a regional airline, perhaps Skywest?

It's fascinating to a non-industry person like me watching the two of you go back and forth on this.
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runner13
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:00 pm

RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:44 am

Quoting mcdu (Reply 33):
Last week I was flying an international flight. At departure time we were adjusted to a :30 minute delay. Why? Waiting for several connections coming from a delayed RJ that was parking at our sked dept time. After :30 minutes the ramp called on the interphone to let us know it would be a bit longer as UAX had just delivered the bags plane side. From our gate to the UAx flight was maybe 300 yards and it took :30 minutes to get the bags that far. We were flying to a large international connection airport which was going to drive misconnects on the other end. All the passengers hurried to be delayed for the UAX baggage people.

Unless the contract has changed. The rampers that work the UAX flights at ORD are mainline UAL employees.
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5019
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:19 am

Quoting mcdu (Reply 40):
You obviously haven't seen the Applications we have on file. Military, corporate and regionals all make up the list. I only hope we can get the best of those groups. Believing there are not corporate and military pilots seeking jobs at a major carrier is a huge case of denial.

I never said there WASN'T applicants. I said they were HAPPIER.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 41):
And you know this isn't the case how? There are completion stipulations in all of the RJ contracts. If you choose not to believe they are there then suit yourself.

Those completion stipulations are none of your business, and completely off-point. You claim to know that "they do cancel a significant amount of flying due to lack of crews." Proof, please. Otherwise, you're just making things up.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 41):
I believe you do a good job of proving my point about OO and the difference in the employees between the two companies. Hardly do you ever see tempestuous writing by Eagle employees, the same can't be said for OO.

You really don't read enough. But then again, you don't care about what Eagle employees have to say, because Eagle doesn't fly for UA.

The only tempestuous one here is you. All you ever do here is rag on regionals---SkyWest in particular---with the only backing points you have being that you've "had a terrible experience with them," and "they have a horrible operation," and that you "feel they have stolen you job." Those are your arguments every time you chime in on a thread, and every single time, you get beat down, and those theads eventually get locked. You don't promote thread productivity; you promote thread decay.
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jetblueguy22
Posts: 3186
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

RE: Express Jet DFW Issues Flying For AE?

Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:30 am

This thread has become a mainline vs regional battle. It will be archived to future posts. All posts made after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.
Regards,
Pat
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