flaps30
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:08 pm

I have been flying WN regularly for at least 25 years and always have wondered why they do not fly any red-eye's. Now I know for a long time they did not fly coast to coast, but now they do and have been for a while. I also know they have a few flights that land at various cities around midnight to 1 am but I am talking about a true red-eye flight that departs the west coast late at night and arrives on the east coast in the morning. Does this type of flying not fit into their business model or ops model?
every day is a good day to fly
 
flaps30
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:40 pm

Quoting Jasoncrh (Reply 1):
it's because they fly their airplanes to the maximum each day

Dont most airlines do the same? Other airlines that have high utilization still fly red-eye's.
every day is a good day to fly
 
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Spacepope
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:58 pm

Quoting flaps30 (Reply 2):

I think he's alluding to the needless use of apostrophes when you talk about red eyes. Plural words don't have them. Possessive nouns and contractions do. Someone needs to post Bob the Angry Flower's guide.
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JONC777
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:25 pm

Its mostly a contract issue. . .fas working redeyes would make the same as if it was a charter, which is a lot more than the regular rate. I'm sure that WN will have red eyes eventually, it would be great feed for early morning originators in places like MDW ATL HOU DAL BWI and possibly MCO. But, WN just hasnt reached the point of being interested yet I suppose.
 
SurfandSnow
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:32 pm

Quoting Jasoncrh (Reply 1):
If you're talking about red eyes, it's because they fly their airplanes to the maximum each day and need the overnight time for maintenance.

Yes, this was the classic WN model. When WN purchased FL, an airline that did/does operate red eyes, people began to ask whether WN would take on those flights or drop them. Also, WN's application for ETOPS and the proposition of Hawaii service raised questions - it would be very difficult to profitably/viably serve Hawaii without the ability to do red eyes.

WN's employee contracts actually had stipulations that actually forbade crews (FAs, not sure about pilots) from operating red eyes, and the airline had to negotiate for red eye flying in its new contracts. WN now has the blessing of its crews to fly red eyes, but for now FL metal/crews continue to operate all of the red eye flights. WN has publicly stated that a few of the red eyes inherited from FL will "likely" come over, but WN certainly doesn't seem eager to start new red eyes on their own routes (i.e. LAX-MDW).

Although many folks are quick to loathe red eyes, WN's schedules might actually be MORE friendly with them than without. Take LAS-BWI as an example. WN's first flight of the day leaves LAS at 5:35 AM (I wonder if many folks just stumble out of the club and head straight for the airport to catch this?), arriving to BWI at 1:15 PM. By that time, you've already missed all of the international Caribbean departures, and even a short hop to someplace like RDU or PIT doesn't get you to your destination until about 3 PM. Should you wish to leave LAS at more humane hours and still make a connection at BWI, you can take the 9:55 AM or 1:35 PM flights; the latter meaning you probably won't get home or checked in to your hotel until after midnight. O&D (or people willing to spend a night at BWI, and then take a flight the next day) can take the 5:20 PM departure from LAS, getting in to BWI at 12:50 AM. The FL red eye, leaving LAS at 11:30 PM and arriving to BWI at 7:05 the next morning, is the only way someone can fly in for that morning meeting, seamlessly connect to international Caribbean destinations, or connect and arrive home before the late afternoon. I'd much rather take the red eye than have to catch a 5:35 AM flight or spend an unnecessary night in Baltimore. WN is already offering the earliest departures and latest arrivals that it can; red eyes simply provide unique options that the classic WN schedule could/can not.

I can't help but wonder if red eye flying could be the saving grace for some of those long, thin routes from LAS and a way to increase LAX service from their limited gate space...
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WNCrew
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:40 pm

Quoting JONC777 (Reply 6):
fas working redeyes would make the same as if it was a charter, which is a lot more than the regular rate.

....nope, not true. We get an additional amount for red-eyes but it's NOTHING close to what we get paid for charters. It's less than $2 additional per hr and only for certain hours.

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 7):
WN's employee contracts actually had stipulations that actually forbade crews (FAs, not sure about pilots) from operating red eyes,

Our contract doesn't forbid red-eyes, it's been allowed for at least the last 9 years.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AeroWesty
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:45 pm

Quoting flaps30 (Thread starter):
Does this type of flying not fit into their business model or ops model?

A Bloomberg article from January 2012 suggested that once AirTran is absorbed, we could see 10-15 red-eyes on WN sometime. They also had a reason for the current lack of red-eye flights:

Quote:
Southwest, the largest discount airline, has never operated overnight flights because of its longtime focus on shorter, point-to-point and high-frequency trips. The Dallas-based carrier also flew to few eastern U.S. airports until 2004, so overnight flights from western cities didn’t make sense.

Southwest May Start Red-Eye Flights as AirTran Is Absorbed
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NWAROOSTER
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:49 pm

Most airlines perform maintenance on their aircraft at night. Write ups and scheduled maintenance is performd then. Also, it is much more profitable to operate an aircraft during the day when the load factors are closer to full. You do not make any money on a flight that may only have a 25% load factor.   
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Okie
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:14 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 10):
You do not make any money on a flight that may only have a 25% load factor

I have been on only three "red eye" flights from west coast to east in my life and 25% load factor was about right.

One flight there was only 9 passengers counting myself. The main reason is positioning the aircraft back to the east coast for early morning flights take whatever revenue you can get I assume. I just do not see it worth while with fuel costs and overhead with slim margins.

Quoting flaps30 (Thread starter):
I also know they have a few flights that land at various cities around midnight to 1 am

I have been on way to many of those flights. Seems like what ever seat I chose it is like a magnet for the only obnoxious drunk on the flight to be sitting close by.

Okie
 
GentFromAlaska
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:25 am

The term RON (Remain Overnight) had to come from somewhere!
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
Bobloblaw
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:45 am

Quoting okie (Reply 11):

How long ago was that?? Most red eyes operate just as full as day trips. They might have slightly lower yields though in some markets.
 
Okie
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:08 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 13):
How long ago was that

Now you are trying to date me, mid 80's would be about right but not WN.

Then I could tell you about the WN OKC-PHX flights in that time frame, show up near boarding time on an overbooked flight get bumped to the OKC-TUL-PHX get to PHX about 45 mins later than planed with a free ticket.

Okie
 
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mke717spotter
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:09 am

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 7):
WN has publicly stated that a few of the red eyes inherited from FL will "likely" come over, but WN certainly doesn't seem eager to start new red eyes on their own routes (i.e. LAX-MDW).

Well none of the MKE redeyes were carried over, and I'm not sure how many they have left from ATL or BWI.
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asteriskceo
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:43 am

If I'm not mistaken, in addition to the aforementioned, WN's current res system does not allow for red eye scheduling.
 
wnflyguy
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:07 am

Yes WN current system is outdated BUT Amadeus should fix the International and Red eye flying.
I think WN will have red eye flying by summer time flying next year.
I also think Hawaii and Alaska mostly will be Red eye flying only if and when it ever starts.
From HOU I see Red eye flying to points in Central and South America in 2015.

wnfg  
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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dwightm
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:37 am

Quoting okie (Reply 11):
I have been on only three "red eye" flights from west coast to east in my life and 25% load factor was about right.


I don't think I have ever flown on a red eye with only 25% load factor. Most red eyes I have been on are generally pretty full and quiet. Seems like an easier flight for the flight attendants with so many people sleeping. I take a lot of red eyes between SFO & FLL on VRD. They always seem to have a full load.
 
ouboy79
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:39 am

Quoting Asteriskceo (Reply 17):

If I'm not mistaken, in addition to the aforementioned, WN's current res system does not allow for red eye scheduling.

It also doesn't allow you to make popcorn. Damn SAAS...messing everything up.
 
usflyguy
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:56 am

How do red-eye charters work in the systems? Is it only the actual selling of tickets that isn't allowed by the system?
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fanoftristars
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:14 am

25% load factor? Since when!? The red eyes from SLC are usually always packed. From SLC-ATL it's a 763 or 753 and from SLC-JFK it's a delta 738 or B6 A-320, and DTW a 320. Every time I've flown these routes the plane was full.
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ont 737
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:16 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 8):

Please correct where this is wrong, but if a line spans 2 (calendar) days, the crew gets paid the daily minimum for 2 days regardless of the actual amount of hours flown? (Average daily guarantee)

That could really impact red eyes.
 
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DexSwart
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:34 am

QF has a red-eye from PER to MEL, which usually runs at around 80 %to 90% capacity.
I believe they have a similarly timed red eye to SYD.

JQ doesn't. I believe for the same reason WN didn't have them. Or doesn't, as is.
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WNCrew
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:15 am

Quoting Reply 23):
Please correct where this is wrong, but if a line spans 2 (calendar) days, the crew gets paid the daily minimum for 2 days regardless of the actual amount of hours flown? (Average daily guarantee)

If there was a block of crew rest separating the two duty periods then yes, but for a turn, no.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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diverdave
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:27 pm

Quoting dwightm (Reply 19):
I don't think I have ever flown on a red eye with only 25% load factor. Most red eyes I have been on are generally pretty full and quiet. Seems like an easier flight for the flight attendants with so many people sleeping. I take a lot of red eyes between SFO & FLL on VRD. They always seem to have a full load.

That's my experience. I have been on a few Delta LAX-ATL or SEA-ATL flights in the past few years and they are packed to the gills.

I think Herb's motto always was planes don't make money sitting on the ground. With WN running longer stage length flights, it's a chance to up the utilization rate.

And maybe the friendly WN FAs will tuck in the passengers, or even sing lullabys.  

David
 
smittyone
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:57 pm

Quoting Jasoncrh (Reply 1):
red eye's what?

very curious to know.

If you're talking about red eyes, it's because they fly their airplanes to the maximum each day and need the overnight time for maintenance.
Quoting flaps30 (Reply 2):
I thought that was pretty clear.

I think his point was:

red eye's = something that belongs to a red eye
red eyes' = something that belongs to more than one red eye
red eyes = more than one red eye
 
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lightsaber
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:59 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 11):
I have been on only three "red eye" flights from west coast to east in my life and 25% load factor was about right.

How!?! I've never been on a redeye that wasn't sold out. Every experience has been excellent. Ok, I've only flown a few airlines on redeye flights (mostly B6). It adds one usable day to a trip (I sleep on planes well.)

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 13):
How long ago was that?? Most red eyes operate just as full as day trips. They might have slightly lower yields though in some markets.

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jfklganyc
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:11 pm

Passenger convenience aside, the problem with red eyes from a crew perspective is safety.

Unless you are properly rested, unless the trip is properly timed, unless the flight is not delayed, unless you dont see the sun rise...there are safety issues. Not imagined, real.

Study after study shows what happens during these redeyes. The ideal situation is sleep during the day, wake up and fly the flight, sleep when you land. A large chunk of the time, this does not happen.

1. Reserves often get called to fly these flights after they have been on reserve for a good part of the afternoon.

2. Short redeyes to the islands are often built into turns...involving two redeyes.

3. An airline like WN would likely have a short leg before the redeye ie: lax-las-bwi to make the most use of crew and aircraft. By the second half of the second flight, the crew is exhausted.

4. Sunrise after being up all night is not just a psychological exhausting factor, it is a very real physiological exhausting factor too. Many redeyes arrive well after the sun rises.

5. Delays. A delayed redeye is a huge red flag. A flight departing at 11pm to arrive 6 hours later that is delayed 2-3 hours puts the crew in a whole new zone of fatigue. Luckily, delays do not often happen at night, but when they do, there are safety issues.


Finally, FAR Part 117 rules starting on 1/1/14 will have a huge impact on backside of the clock flying. A standard redeye will still be legal, but the amount of rest, the length of the flight, duty on/duty off times, and circadium rythem of a trip will all be heavily regulated.
 
MIflyer12
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:21 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
Passenger convenience aside, the problem with red eyes from a crew perspective is safety.

You protest safety too much. 99+% of east-bound TATL flights are redeyes, and most all of longer duration than any WN domestic-48 redeye non-stop could be.
 
sw733
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:28 pm

Quoting dwightm (Reply 19):
I don't think I have ever flown on a red eye with only 25% load factor.

Same experience here. I had the unfortunate habit of ending up on the redeye LAX-ORD for about 15 out of 25 weeks back in 2008, and they were ALWAYS full. Like, every seat full. The LAX-DFW and LAX-BOS redeyes I ended up on in the last 2 years were the same.
 
HPRamper
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:00 pm

Quoting dwightm (Reply 19):
Most red eyes I have been on are generally pretty full and quiet. Seems like an easier flight for the flight attendants with so many people sleeping.

Lucky you, my redeyes generally have multiple crying babies for five hours  
 
YULWinterSkies
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:14 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 11):
Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 10):
You do not make any money on a flight that may only have a 25% load factor

I have been on only three "red eye" flights from west coast to east in my life and 25% load factor was about right.

I'm actually mostly used to fly overbooked redeyes.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 30):
You protest safety too much. 99+% of east-bound TATL flights are redeyes, and most all of longer duration than any WN domestic-48 redeye non-stop could be.

True, but then redeye becomes the only option in terms of time zone convenience, and the longest of these flights have 3 cockpit crews. Most flight also are on widebody with larger capacity, which equals more cabin crew, and such airlcraft are equipped of crew rest compartment.
The whole difference between long-haul and medium-haul.
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N757ST
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:23 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
1. Reserves often get called to fly these flights after they have been on reserve for a good part of the afternoon.

2. Short redeyes to the islands are often built into turns...involving two redeyes.

3. An airline like WN would likely have a short leg before the redeye ie: lax-las-bwi to make the most use of crew and aircraft. By the second half of the second flight, the crew is exhausted.

4. Sunrise after being up all night is not just a psychological exhausting factor, it is a very real physiological exhausting factor too. Many redeyes arrive well after the sun rises.

5. Delays. A delayed redeye is a huge red flag. A flight departing at 11pm to arrive 6 hours later that is delayed 2-3 hours puts the crew in a whole new zone of fatigue. Luckily, delays do not often happen at night, but when they do, there are safety issues.

Dude, really? I mean yeah we are tired, but I don't find anything unsafe about red-eye flying. Its all about the quality of sleep before the flight, and that all depends on the person.

As for the reserve comment, at least at my airline (I have no idea if its the same as yours) guys that cover red eye flying usually wont start reserve until 8pm or later.

I fly a lot of red eyes, and while I won't say I particularly enjoy them, I don't think they are at all a safety risk.

As for FAR 117, it will impact red eye turns which we often fly JFK-SJU/PSE/BQN/STI/SDQ, but traditional westcoast redeyes will have no impact what-so-ever.

-7ST A320 FO

[Edited 2013-06-12 09:25:47]
 
usa330300
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting flaps30 (Thread starter):
I have been flying WN regularly for at least 25 years and always have wondered why they do not fly any red-eye's.

You didn't complete the question. "Red eye's" what?
 
gizmonc
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:57 pm

Quoting Asteriskceo (Reply 17):
If I'm not mistaken, in addition to the aforementioned, WN's current res system does not allow for red eye scheduling.

WN reservations system is Braniff's old cowboy system call SAAS. It is capable of doing red eyes. It is capable of alot of things just not international at this point. WN signed a contact with Amadeus and is working on that system now. I have heard rumors that the international side of it is suppose to be ready in Sept/Oct. Amadeus started a large support center in the Dallas Area. After the international is completed , Amadeus is going to work on the domestic side and then combine both.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:03 pm

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 22):
25% load factor? Since when!? The red eyes from SLC are usually always packed. From SLC-ATL it's a 763 or 753 and from SLC-JFK it's a delta 738 or B6 A-320, and DTW a 320. Every time I've flown these routes the plane was full.

I have had the exact same experiences from SLC too. US CLT red eye is always packed from SLC.
 
Rdh3e
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:09 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
4. Sunrise after being up all night is not just a psychological exhausting factor, it is a very real physiological exhausting factor too. Many redeyes arrive well after the sun rises.

Hmm, that's interesting. I usually get a "second wind" as they say when I see the sunrise.

Quoting N757ST (Reply 34):
I fly a lot of red eyes, and while I won't say I particularly enjoy them, I don't think they are at all a safety risk.

Good to hear.
 
AA777
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 11):
I have been on only three "red eye" flights from west coast to east in my life and 25% load factor was about right.

That's interesting because all the red-eye flights i've been on have been at least 75% full.

But they were always connecting two large hubs with BIG markets like LAX-IAD, SFO-IAD and so on...

-AA777
 
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fanoftristars
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:57 pm

I think the bottom line is we will see red eyes with WN eventually, and I bet they'll be very popular and very full when they start. Red eyes aren't inherently unsafe when proper procedures are followed, as attested by the sheer number completed safely, daily. The crews working these are professionals who take their jobs and safety seriously.
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roseflyer
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:20 pm

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 10):
Most airlines perform maintenance on their aircraft at night. Write ups and scheduled maintenance is performd then.

True, but a 737 can go 3 days nonstop with no maintenance other than tire pressure checks. The deferral list may stack up some, but both United and Delta operate 737s for 40 hours with no ground time over 1.5 hours, so Southwest can do it if they wanted to. A few dozen out of 500 airplanes won't affect maintenance.
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N757ST
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:25 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 38):
4. Sunrise after being up all night is not just a psychological exhausting factor, it is a very real physiological exhausting factor too. Many redeyes arrive well after the sun rises.

Hes completely correct with this one, the most tiring time flying a redeye is right at sunrise.
 
wn676
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:46 pm

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 10):

Also, it is much more profitable to operate an aircraft during the day when the load factors are closer to full. You do not make any money on a flight that may only have a 25% load factor.

As others have said, redeyes usually run load factors comparable to their daytime counterparts. You should see PHX around 10-11pm when US is on their flex schedule, the concourses are packed like they are during the first couple morning banks. The cost to operate those flights are attractive since, generally, you're using resources in smaller increments. That will offset some of the revenue loss that comes with those sometimes unattractive flight times.
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wnflyguy
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:27 pm

I think you will see Domestic Red eye's to start from
LAX
LAX-BWI
LAX-ATL
LAX-MDW
LAX-DAL 2014
LAX-HOU 2015
Red eye returns
LAX-ANC
LAX-HNL
LAX-OGG
LAX-KOA
LAX-ITO

SAN
SAN-BWI
SAN-ATL
Red eye returns
SAN-HNL
SAN-OGG

LAS
LAS-BWI
LAS-ATL
LAS-MDW
LAS-MCO
LAS-TPA
LAS-FLL
LAS-BUF
LAS-DAL 2014
LAS-HOU 2015
Red eye returns
LAS-ANC
LAS-HNL
LAS-OGG
LAS-KOA
LAS-ITO

PHX
PHX-BWI
PHX-ATL
PHX-MDW
PHX-HOU 2015
PHX-DAL 2014

SFO
SFO-BWI
SFO-ATL
SFO-MDW
SFO-DAL 2014
SFO-HOU 2015

OAK
Red eye returns
OAK-HNL
OAK-OGG
OAK-KOA
OAK-ITO
OAK-ANC
OAK-DAL 2014
OAK-HOU 2015

SEA
SEA-BWI
SEA-ATL
SEA-DAL 2014
SEA-HOU 2015

HOU
HOU-SJU

MDW
MDW-SJU
MDW-FLL

BWI
BWI-SJU

DEN
Red eye returns
DEN-ANC

DAL
DAL-SJU 2014

wnfg  
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
Western727
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How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:51 pm

It's past due for WN to do red eyes. I've chosen competing airlines numerous times because red eyes are sometimes a great fit for my schedule...so I look forward to seeing WN start its own red eyes.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 44):

Great list to start our speculative discussion. I speculate the addition of SEA-MDW as well.

And what about AUS red eye arrivals...from LAX and LAS, perhaps? After all, AUS has a fair amount of morning departures that could carry feeder traffic from said red "eye's" (pun intended).  
Jack @ AUS
 
lasairlinerenth
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:59 am

How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:42 pm

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 24):
JQ doesn't. I believe for the same reason WN didn't have them. Or doesn't, as is.

I'm not sure that's entirely the case with JQ and Perth. I flew from Las Vegas to Perth (AA to LAX, then QF from LAX to BNE, and QF from BNE to PER) just this past November 2012. On the return, I was on a JQ flight from PER to BNE that left Perth at about 12:10AM and got into BNE at approximately 6:00AM-ish. That counts as a red-eye, and I'm sure it's still a bookable itinerary on JQ. I don't know if JQ do other red-eye flights, though.
 
ScottB
Posts: 6746
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

How Come Southwest Does Not Fly Any Red-eyes?

Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 44):
DAL
DAL-SJU 2014

Not permitted under the successor to Wright. Non-stops to/from DAL are limited to the 50 states and District of Columbia.

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