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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:32 pm

texl1649 wrote:
mat66 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
The AvWeek article (which can be read after free email registration) says that the auto mode is for landing (deploy at a certain speed after touchdown), and for take off, it's a check list item. It didn't mention any prevention of take off with wing tips folded. I presume there would be all kinds of warnings being thrown if they do try to take off with the wingtips in the down position.



I could be mistaken, but didn't Boeing at program launch said something like it can fly/take off with the wing tips folded or missing completely ? As the first commercial aircraft with this feature it would be wise to plan very conservatively to that regard. Some warning at take off would of course make sense, anyway.


Yes, they did. Of course, when you start removing chunks of the wing it's going to take longer to get airborne. I imagine the flight test regimen will include such evaluations, though I doubt it's done anywhere near MTOW.

Taking off with both wing tips folded or missing shouldn't be that much of an issue I think. Probably part of standard simulator training for the 777X. Maybe it would be more of an event if one of the wing tips was extended and the other folded, I'm not sure.
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:36 pm

texl1649 wrote:
mat66 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
The AvWeek article (which can be read after free email registration) says that the auto mode is for landing (deploy at a certain speed after touchdown), and for take off, it's a check list item. It didn't mention any prevention of take off with wing tips folded. I presume there would be all kinds of warnings being thrown if they do try to take off with the wingtips in the down position.



I could be mistaken, but didn't Boeing at program launch said something like it can fly/take off with the wing tips folded or missing completely ? As the first commercial aircraft with this feature it would be wise to plan very conservatively to that regard. Some warning at take off would of course make sense, anyway.


Yes, they did. Of course, when you start removing chunks of the wing it's going to take longer to get airborne. I imagine the flight test regimen will include such evaluations, though I doubt it's done anywhere near MTOW.


You might be right, but I were the FAA, I want to see a take off at MTOW with wing tips folded. Even if the force on the hinges has been calculated/simulated years ago.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:45 pm

The 777X has the same MTOW as the 77W, so I don't see why there would be any issue taking off with the wing-tips folded.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:00 pm

Surely it comes down to the length of the wing when the tips are folded. What affect does it have to the air flow with the tip folded and at mtow, but more importantly, if one engines then fails at take off also.

Like everything the OEM's do, it will be computer modelled, but also proven in test flight.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:01 pm

Slug71 wrote:
The 777X has the same MTOW as the 77W, so I don't see why there would be any issue taking off with the wing-tips folded.


there are those pesky unknown unknowns around ( G! from Rumsfeld :-)

For one Vspeeds and required runway length are computed based on lift for the whole wing and available thrust.
77W already must have lots of runway available for take off.

Thrust is reduced on the 777X due to better L/D swapped in.
For accomodating contigencies you may be required to not account for lift from the moving tips.
That then requires more runway available ( not needed if all engines run, but must be shown to exist .. )

Probabilities. ..
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:10 pm

The new cockpit looks nice and clean. Very similar to the 787 cockpit. Will there be commonality between the two types?

Regarding the wingtips, which way are they folding? Down and under the wing, or up and over?
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:15 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
Regarding the wingtips, which way are they folding? Down and under the wing, or up and over?

They fold up:

Image
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:17 pm

When the 787's were having their test flights, I wrote on the Boeing FB page that put a 787 flight deck in a 777 and now after 7 years it is actually happening.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:24 pm

So the wings for the 1st 779 to fly are under construction, when will they start constructing the fuselage?
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:01 pm

mat66 wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
mat66 wrote:


I could be mistaken, but didn't Boeing at program launch said something like it can fly/take off with the wing tips folded or missing completely ? As the first commercial aircraft with this feature it would be wise to plan very conservatively to that regard. Some warning at take off would of course make sense, anyway.


Yes, they did. Of course, when you start removing chunks of the wing it's going to take longer to get airborne. I imagine the flight test regimen will include such evaluations, though I doubt it's done anywhere near MTOW.


You might be right, but I were the FAA, I want to see a take off at MTOW with wing tips folded. Even if the force on the hinges has been calculated/simulated years ago.


Sufficiency for maximum flight loads is proven on the static test airframe, not in flight.

As for takeoff performance, there shouldn't be a need to prove ability to take off with a folded wing tip. There should be a need to prove there won't be a failure to lock without a cockpit warning, which as I understand it, would be the same criteria as for the far more important flaps.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:30 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
So the wings for the 1st 779 to fly are under construction, when will they start constructing the fuselage?

The fusalage should be far faster to manufacture as the technique isn't that different from the old 777s manufacturing process. The wing will take a few more months to build as it is Boeing's first self made CFRP wing.

Late edit: Yes Boeing has done prototype CFRP wings. There is a big difference to build a wing for mass production. Recall Mitsubish makes the 787 wing and invested heavily in the R&D.
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:19 pm

From the pics, does it look like Boeing switched to "787 grey/blue" from the old 777 "brown"? If so that is a welcome change.
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

holzmann wrote:
From the pics, does it look like Boeing switched to "787 grey/blue" from the old 777 "brown"? If so that is a welcome change.


It's actually going to be scarlet red, not brown :D But agreed, fresh and exciting.

Makes you think what the next Boeing demo color will be.
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:32 pm

holzmann wrote:
From the pics, does it look like Boeing switched to "787 grey/blue" from the old 777 "brown"? If so that is a welcome change.

Those are 787s in blue in the background. the 77Xs look like they are a muddier version of the burgundy they originally launched with.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:34 pm

Blue looks much better. They now look a bit dirty, like emerging from the mud...
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:47 pm

holzmann wrote:
From the pics, does it look like Boeing switched to "787 grey/blue" from the old 777 "brown"? If so that is a welcome change.


Holzmann, I'm guessing you were talking about the cockpit, not the demo paintjobs? And yes, it does look better! :-)
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:47 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
holzmann wrote:
From the pics, does it look like Boeing switched to "787 grey/blue" from the old 777 "brown"? If so that is a welcome change.


It's actually going to be scarlet red, not brown :D But agreed, fresh and exciting.

Makes you think what the next Boeing demo color will be.

Bricktop wrote:
Those are 787s in blue in the background. the 77Xs look like they are a muddier version of the burgundy they originally launched with.

Jayafe wrote:
Blue looks much better. They now look a bit dirty, like emerging from the mud...


I'm pretty sure holzmann was talking about the flight deck (pictures at the end of last page), not the exterior house paint.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:50 pm

Polot wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
holzmann wrote:
From the pics, does it look like Boeing switched to "787 grey/blue" from the old 777 "brown"? If so that is a welcome change.


It's actually going to be scarlet red, not brown :D But agreed, fresh and exciting.

Makes you think what the next Boeing demo color will be.

Bricktop wrote:
Those are 787s in blue in the background. the 77Xs look like they are a muddier version of the burgundy they originally launched with.

Jayafe wrote:
Blue looks much better. They now look a bit dirty, like emerging from the mud...


I'm pretty sure holzmann was talking about the flight deck (pictures at the end of last page), not the exterior house paint.

:blush:
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:54 pm

texl1649 wrote:
mat66 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
The AvWeek article (which can be read after free email registration) says that the auto mode is for landing (deploy at a certain speed after touchdown), and for take off, it's a check list item. It didn't mention any prevention of take off with wing tips folded. I presume there would be all kinds of warnings being thrown if they do try to take off with the wingtips in the down position.



I could be mistaken, but didn't Boeing at program launch said something like it can fly/take off with the wing tips folded or missing completely ? As the first commercial aircraft with this feature it would be wise to plan very conservatively to that regard. Some warning at take off would of course make sense, anyway.


Yes, they did. Of course, when you start removing chunks of the wing it's going to take longer to get airborne. I imagine the flight test regimen will include such evaluations, though I doubt it's done anywhere near MTOW.


There are no takeoff tests performed with the flaps retracted. There are warnings though if a takeoff is attempted with flaps not in a takeoff position.

Same thing will apply to the folding wing tips. No takeoff or inflight testing with the tips folded. Warnings if a takeoff is attempted with the tips folded.
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:57 pm

The new cockpit still looks brown/beige to me. But with some gray elements.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:01 pm

Yes, I was referring to the color of plastic in the cockpit. Definitely a nod to Airbus, which is a good thing.

The old brown was rather hideous.

Image
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:03 pm

OldAeroGuy wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
mat66 wrote:


I could be mistaken, but didn't Boeing at program launch said something like it can fly/take off with the wing tips folded or missing completely ? As the first commercial aircraft with this feature it would be wise to plan very conservatively to that regard. Some warning at take off would of course make sense, anyway.


Yes, they did. Of course, when you start removing chunks of the wing it's going to take longer to get airborne. I imagine the flight test regimen will include such evaluations, though I doubt it's done anywhere near MTOW.


There are no takeoff tests performed with the flaps retracted. There are warnings though if a takeoff is attempted with flaps not in a takeoff position.

Same thing will apply to the folding wing tips. No takeoff or inflight testing with the tips folded. Warnings if a takeoff is attempted with the tips folded.


Says who? We don’t know what’s Boeing is planning with testing for this aircraft.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:26 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:
There are no takeoff tests performed with the flaps retracted. There are warnings though if a takeoff is attempted with flaps not in a takeoff position.

Same thing will apply to the folding wing tips. No takeoff or inflight testing with the tips folded. Warnings if a takeoff is attempted with the tips folded.


Says who? We don’t know what’s Boeing is planning with testing for this aircraft.

Believe it or not, there are a few people on this forum who know what's what, and OAG is one of them.

Why do you think they would not use the same rules for the wingtips as they do for the flaps?

What he wrote is entirely consistent with what was written in the AvWeek article, by the way.
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:31 pm

Revelation wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:
There are no takeoff tests performed with the flaps retracted. There are warnings though if a takeoff is attempted with flaps not in a takeoff position.

Same thing will apply to the folding wing tips. No takeoff or inflight testing with the tips folded. Warnings if a takeoff is attempted with the tips folded.


Says who? We don’t know what’s Boeing is planning with testing for this aircraft.

Believe it or not, there are a few people on this forum who know what's what, and OAG is one of them.

Why do you think they would not use the same rules for the wingtips as they do for the flaps?

What he wrote is entirely consistent with what was written in the AvWeek article, by the way.


I believe there are people with accurate information on here and what he says makes perfect sense, I just also remember Boeing saying they were going to test winglets folded and I haven’t heard of any deviation of that plan but it’s entirely plausible that they abandoned it.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:53 pm

Surely on top of modelling the worst case scenarios they need to test sufficiently to ensure they know that the modelling is correct.

I think the worst case (and I do not think it would happen) would be the wing tip letting go at or near V1. But I suspect the lift percentage of the tip compared to the rest of the wing is such that the sudden asymmetric lift would not be catastrophic.

As I say testing must validate modelling so I suspect we may get some flights with one or both tips removed.

Folding wingtips may become commonplace in the coming years as A and B try and keep within current gate limits and reduce drag for longer stage lengths.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:05 pm

The FAA proposes special conditions for the 777X family.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... g-wingtips
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:12 pm

And requests comments on the proposals. Will be interesting to read the submissions- and where they come from.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:36 pm

Boeing has determined that a catastrophic event could occur if the 777-8 and 777-9 airplane wingtips are not properly positioned and secured for takeoff and during flight.


Increasing the size of the chain failure is never a good idea...
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:38 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Increasing the size of the chain of failures is never a good idea...

That's why some people never leave their houses. For the rest of us, life is a series of cost/benefit tradeoffs.
Last edited by Revelation on Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:41 pm

holzmann wrote:
Yes, I was referring to the color of plastic in the cockpit. Definitely a nod to Airbus, which is a good thing.

The old brown was rather hideous.

Image


IIRC, the tan / brown tones were chosen cause they hid dirt better than grey and the warmer colors
like tan and brown increased pilot alertness.

Kinda funny how state of the art the original 777 flight deck looked back in the mid 90's , but it

now looks really dated compared to the 787 and 777x flight decks
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:59 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Boeing has determined that a catastrophic event could occur if the 777-8 and 777-9 airplane wingtips are not properly positioned and secured for takeoff and during flight.


Increasing the size of the chain failure is never a good idea...

Quoting the full paragraph gives a bit more context:

Boeing has determined that a catastrophic event could occur if the 777-8 and 777-9 airplane wingtips are not properly positioned and secured for takeoff and during flight. In service, numerous takeoff operations with improper airplane configurations have occurred due to failures of the takeoff warning systems, or inadvertent crew actions. For these proposed special conditions, a parallel is drawn between taking off with gust locks engaged and taking off with the wingtips folded, as either condition could result in a catastrophic event. Consequently, the FAA has determined that the level of safety in protecting a misconfigured airplane from takeoff with wingtips folded should be the same as taking off with the gust locks engaged. Therefore, condition 2 of these proposed special conditions has the same intent as § 25.679(a)(2). Per § 25.1309, the applicant must show that such an event is extremely improbable, must not result from a single failure, and that appropriate alerting must be provided for the crew to manage unsafe system-operating conditions. In addition, the applicant must ensure that the wingtips are properly secured during ground operations to protect ground personnel against bodily injury.


In light of this, I wonder if this means Boeing aren't going to assert that the aircraft is safe to fly with tips folded (either by way of modelling or demonstration in flight test)

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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:11 am

mat66 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
holzmann wrote:
^^^Great zoom shot there. Thanks. I wonder if there is something that extends the tips automatically once the throttles are pushed forward or if there is anything preventing the AC from taking off with them folded?

The AvWeek article (which can be read after free email registration) says that the auto mode is for landing (deploy at a certain speed after touchdown), and for take off, it's a check list item. It didn't mention any prevention of take off with wing tips folded. I presume there would be all kinds of warnings being thrown if they do try to take off with the wingtips in the down position.



I could be mistaken, but didn't Boeing at program launch said something like it can fly/take off with the wing tips folded or missing completely ? As the first commercial aircraft with this feature it would be wise to plan very conservatively to that regard. Some warning at take off would of course make sense, anyway.


They said that in a very general, don't worry about the proportion of lift that comes from the wing tip, sort of manner. I don't remember them saying anything about what the expected certification requirement would be.

I assume notice to the crew will be covered in the normal takeoff configuration warnings, which is an audible warning that serves as a backup to the crew's checklist:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take-off_warning_system
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:40 am

Polot wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
holzmann wrote:
From the pics, does it look like Boeing switched to "787 grey/blue" from the old 777 "brown"? If so that is a welcome change.


It's actually going to be scarlet red, not brown :D But agreed, fresh and exciting.

Makes you think what the next Boeing demo color will be.

Bricktop wrote:
Those are 787s in blue in the background. the 77Xs look like they are a muddier version of the burgundy they originally launched with.

Jayafe wrote:
Blue looks much better. They now look a bit dirty, like emerging from the mud...


I'm pretty sure holzmann was talking about the flight deck (pictures at the end of last page), not the exterior house paint.

JetBuddy wrote:
The new cockpit still looks brown/beige to me. But with some gray elements.

It’s an interesting rendering. It largely still appears to retain the same material colour used in the current 777, the typical beige, but areas in the shadows appear more grey. The overhead, window frames, and seats are most certainly showing as beige still and this can better be seen in their 360 rendering on social media outlets. I would say the rendering just partly looks grey simply because it’s a rendering and it still is beige, but I guess we won’t really know until they finish the thing.

An other notable change in the cockpit is that some of the overhead is either different or modified for changes to systems such as the beefed up hydraulics or the changes to the IRSs.
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:22 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
In light of this, I wonder if this means Boeing aren't going to assert that the aircraft is safe to fly with tips folded (either by way of modelling or demonstration in flight test)


Probably what the FAA recognizes is that when a 777X is flying close to MTOW and/or field/altitude/heat limitations on takeoff performance, failure of the wingtips would cause it to miss the safety margin for V2 (most likely) or balanced field length. Without the tips, L/D is significantly lower, meaning climb gradient with OEI is significantly lower, meaning you hit the wall. That's a catastrophe.

If that's the case, then Boeing could still earnestly claim that, for example, a 777X with total tip failure (or loss) could ferry from a location for repairs, so long as it was far under MTOW and/or takeoff performance constraints.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:40 am

KarelXWB wrote:
The FAA proposes special conditions for the 777X family.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... g-wingtips


Thank you for posting this document.

The paragraph that struck me most was:

With wingtips in the folded position, the conventional airplane-wingtip-position lights may have reduced visibility due to the upward position of the wingtips, possibly impacting ground-operation safety. Light placement may require special consideration to retain the current ground-operation safety, and mitigate any adverse impact this light position may have on pilot visibility during night-lighting conditions.


It appears that additional lights will be needed to ensure that the ends of the wings are as visible when the tips are folded upward as they are when deployed for the runway and flight -- such as when the aircraft is on a taxiway or at a gate. New lights would need to be added somewhere around the hinge of the folded-up section.

Visible wingtip lights are definitely important for safety on the ramp, especially in nighttime or inclement conditions.

I look forward to seeing what these will look like in practice.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:14 am

Matt6461 wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
In light of this, I wonder if this means Boeing aren't going to assert that the aircraft is safe to fly with tips folded (either by way of modelling or demonstration in flight test)


Probably what the FAA recognizes is that when a 777X is flying close to MTOW and/or field/altitude/heat limitations on takeoff performance, failure of the wingtips would cause it to miss the safety margin for V2 (most likely) or balanced field length. Without the tips, L/D is significantly lower, meaning climb gradient with OEI is significantly lower, meaning you hit the wall. That's a catastrophe.

If that's the case, then Boeing could still earnestly claim that, for example, a 777X with total tip failure (or loss) could ferry from a location for repairs, so long as it was far under MTOW and/or takeoff performance constraints.


Actual failure of the tips is certified against by the static test.

The main concern is takeoff without the wingtips in the flight position and properly locked.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:37 am

ikolkyo wrote:
Revelation wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

Says who? We don’t know what’s Boeing is planning with testing for this aircraft.

Believe it or not, there are a few people on this forum who know what's what, and OAG is one of them.

Why do you think they would not use the same rules for the wingtips as they do for the flaps?

What he wrote is entirely consistent with what was written in the AvWeek article, by the way.


I believe there are people with accurate information on here and what he says makes perfect sense, I just also remember Boeing saying they were going to test winglets folded and I haven’t heard of any deviation of that plan but it’s entirely plausible that they abandoned it.


Only a couple of years to wait until flight test begins.
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:34 am

OldAeroGuy wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Believe it or not, there are a few people on this forum who know what's what, and OAG is one of them.

Why do you think they would not use the same rules for the wingtips as they do for the flaps?

What he wrote is entirely consistent with what was written in the AvWeek article, by the way.


I believe there are people with accurate information on here and what he says makes perfect sense, I just also remember Boeing saying they were going to test winglets folded and I haven’t heard of any deviation of that plan but it’s entirely plausible that they abandoned it.


Only a couple of years to wait until flight test begins.


Flight tests are a year away, give or take a month.
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7BOEING7
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:11 am

 
Eyad89
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:34 am

Boeing778X wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

I believe there are people with accurate information on here and what he says makes perfect sense, I just also remember Boeing saying they were going to test winglets folded and I haven’t heard of any deviation of that plan but it’s entirely plausible that they abandoned it.


Only a couple of years to wait until flight test begins.


Flight tests are a year away, give or take a month.


Well, in the latest EK 78J's announcement, Boeing confirmed that 779 first delivery to EK would be in 2020. Looking at how Boeing went with 787, it took them almost 2 years to deliver the first aircraft after the first flight.

If Boeing plans to deliver its first 779 in 2020, then your guess of the first flight being one year away is about right I would say.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:58 am

First flight of the 777-9 is scheduled for early 2019. The flight test campaign should take some 12 months to complete.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Max Q
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:15 am

I always liked the brown cockpits
on the 757 /67


If you want to see ugly look at
the ‘public restroom’ green of
the MD80 cockpit
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:28 pm

Any idea when final assembly of the first frame would start?
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Boeing778X
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:21 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Any idea when final assembly of the first frame would start?


Best educated guess......6-7 months from now.

How long do ground trials take?
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:56 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Actual failure of the tips is certified against by the static test.

The main concern is takeoff without the wingtips in the flight position and properly locked.


Understandable that this is a concern. But even today, an aircraft can be flown on revenue service with a missing winglet/wingtip on one side. At least that's the case with the A330/A340. The only difference noticable is 4% more fuel burn.

Max Q wrote:
If you want to see ugly look at
the ‘public restroom’ green of
the MD80 cockpit


The MD-80 cockpit could be delivered in various color schemes, if I recall correctly. The "restroom green" you're referring to was very similar to the color of Russian aircraft cockpits.
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:11 pm

well. I don't want to go all Martha Stewart on you all... but I like the color of the cockpit... It's kind of a Charcoal / Clay / Pewter / White Ashes combo. Not as cold and harsh as the pure Grey/Silver/Black or as dated as pure Brown/Tan/Cream looks..

I like it.
learning never stops.
 
Max Q
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:03 am

JetBuddy wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
Actual failure of the tips is certified against by the static test.

The main concern is takeoff without the wingtips in the flight position and properly locked.


Understandable that this is a concern. But even today, an aircraft can be flown on revenue service with a missing winglet/wingtip on one side. At least that's the case with the A330/A340. The only difference noticable is 4% more fuel burn.

Max Q wrote:
If you want to see ugly look at
the ‘public restroom’ green of
the MD80 cockpit


The MD-80 cockpit could be delivered in various color schemes, if I recall correctly. The "restroom green" you're referring to was very similar to the color of Russian aircraft cockpits.



Yes, they didn’t ask for my opinion and
you’re right, that color did look very Russian


The only thing missing was an electric
fan on the glareshield
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:21 am

Question about the trailing edge nav lights! Will they be at the tip of the wing like the 787 or will they be before the folding wingtip?
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Planesmart
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Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:12 am

StTim wrote:
Surely on top of modelling the worst case scenarios they need to test sufficiently to ensure they know that the modelling is correct.

Agree. Modelling is fine for financial scenarios, when no lives are at risk.

What if the wing tips are in the folded position when landing due to a malfunction, the landing is aborted, and full power required? In this scenario, will crosswinds also be a greater issue?
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: Boeing 777X - Updated Information And Developments

Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:05 am

Boeing778X wrote:
Question about the trailing edge nav lights! Will they be at the tip of the wing like the 787 or will they be before the folding wingtip?


I would think based on the FAA requirement, there would be a normal set at the wing tip illuminated when the wing is not folded and another set at the fold which is illuminated when the wing is folded.

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