BA Confirms 787 Launch Routes: YYZ & EWR

Miami · Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:41 am

BA has confirmed that YYZ and EWR will be the launch routes for the 787.

BA took delivery of the 787 on June 26 and June 27

Source: http://www.ausbt.com.au/british-airw...nch-routes-toronto-new-york/newark

Miami · Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:45 am

You can track the 2nd BA 787 (G-ZBJB) delivery flight here: http://www.flightradar24.com/BAW787

[Edited 2013-06-26 23:49:29]

1400mph · Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:47 am

Just out of interest are new aircraft types crewed by BA's new crew fleet or the other guys ?

What will be the fate of the replaced 767's as the 787's go on line ? Are they leaving or being re-deployed elsewhere ?

yodobashi · Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:52 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 1):

Is this definitely the second delivery? No sign of G-ZBJA crossing the Atlantic yet, per http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/g-zbja ....

Miami · Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:03 am

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 2):

Well that's odd... I would've sworn G-ZBJA was the first delivery.. I guess not.

[Edited 2013-06-27 00:04:08]

[Edited 2013-06-27 00:04:18]

ba319-131 · Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:05 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 4):
Well that's odd... I would've sworn G-ZBJA was the first delivery.. I guess not.

- It will be, due to arrive @ LHR todau, G-ZBZB was to have been the first yesterday but there was an issue so delivery delayed.

Skidmarque · Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:10 am

G-ZBJB arrives at LHR today, ETA 1203 local, callsign BA9152P 'Speedbird 787'.
G-ZBJA follows on Saturday at approx. the same time.

GSTBA · Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:08 am

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 2):
Just out of interest are new aircraft types crewed by BA's new crew fleet or the other guys ?

What will be the fate of the replaced 767's as the 787's go on line ? Are they leaving or being re-deployed elsewhere ?

Mixed Fleet crew are the first to be trained to operate the A380.

The 787 will be operated by Worldwide fleet crew. Nearly all the crew that are to operate the first batch of 787's also hold a 767 license. It is expected that there will be a number of trips were the crew will operate out on the 787 but may return on the 767 and vica versa. The first MF crew are not expected to be trained on the 787 until the 787-9 start arriving.

1400mph · Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:18 am

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 7):
Mixed Fleet crew are the first to be trained to operate the A380.

The 787 will be operated by Worldwide fleet crew. Nearly all the crew that are to operate the first batch of 787's also hold a 767 license. It is expected that there will be a number of trips were the crew will operate out on the 787 but may return on the 767 and vica versa. The first MF crew are not expected to be trained on the 787 until the 787-9 start arriving.

Oh O.K. Thanks.

GSTBA · Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:23 am

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 2):
What will be the fate of the replaced 767's as the 787's go on line ?

BA plan to retire a total of 7 (G-BNWC, G-BNWD, G-BNWH, G-BNWN, G-BNWO, G-BNWR & G-BNWU) 767's from the fleet by Q3/2015. All 7 aircraft will be those that are currently used to operate longhaul routes.

The last of the remaining 7 longhaul 767 is expected to be retired in late 2017. The 7 shorthaul 767's are expected to remain in service until at least early 2018.

[Edited 2013-06-27 01:36:22]

AirbusA6 · Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:35 am

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 9):
The last of the remaining 7 longhaul 767 is expected to be retired in late 2017. The 7 shorthaul 767's are expected to remain in service until at least early 2018.

It will be tricky replacing those short haul 767s, their cargo carrying capacity is useful, and increasing frequency with, say A321s, uses up useful LHR slots...

Tristarsteve · Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:38 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 10):
It will be tricky replacing those short haul 767s, their cargo carrying capacity is useful, and increasing frequency with, say A321s, uses up useful LHR slots...

Well if 2018 is correct, then we can start guessing if the 7 European B767 will be replaced by the 8 B787-800, or the 8 Iberia A330. My money is on the A330.

edina · Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:40 am

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 8):
Quoting GSTBA (Reply 7):
Mixed Fleet crew are the first to be trained to operate the A380.

The 787 will be operated by Worldwide fleet crew. Nearly all the crew that are to operate the first batch of 787's also hold a 767 license. It is expected that there will be a number of trips were the crew will operate out on the 787 but may return on the 767 and vica versa. The first MF crew are not expected to be trained on the 787 until the 787-9 start arriving.

Oh O.K. Thanks.

The first two A380 routes are split between the 2 fleets with LAX operated by new crew & HKG by Worldwide crew.

BA777 · Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:59 am

Looks like YYZ from 1st Sep and EWR 1st Oct?

PHX787 · Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:02 am

Quoting BA777 (Reply 13):
Looks like YYZ from 1st Sep and EWR 1st Oct?

I just did a quick search and that's what it appears to be. Looks like for the time being, crew training flights...but that doesn't make too much sense; that's quite a few months away.

KarelXWB · Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:10 am

Planned operation as follow:

London Heathrow – Newark eff 01OCT13 1 daily (13 weekly from 27OCT13)
BA187 LHR1815 – 2125EWR 788 D
BA186 EWR2255 – 1055+1LHR 788 D

From 27OCT13, service operates 2 daily on:
BA189 LHR1520 – 1810EWR 788 D
BA187 LHR1725 – 2025EWR 788 x6

BA188 EWR2120 – 0900+1LHR 788 D
BA186 EWR2210 – 1000+1LHR 788 x3

London Heathrow – Toronto eff 01SEP13 1 daily (10 weekly from 15SEP13 to 26OCT13)
BA093 LHR1215 – 1455YYZ 788 D
BA097 LHR1400 – 1710YYZ 788 15
BA097 LHR1405 – 1710YYZ 788 7

BA092 YYZ1910 – 0705+1LHR 788 D
BA096 YYZ2245 – 1100+1LHR 788 15
BA096 YYZ2255 – 1115+1LHR 788 7

From 27OCT13, service operates 1 daily on BA099/098
BA099 LHR1630 – 1945YYZ 788 D
BA098 YYZ2135 – 0945+1LHR 788 D

http://airlineroute.net/2013/06/27/ba-787380-update1/

[Edited 2013-06-27 02:10:58]

seansasLCY · Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:23 am

According to Business Traveller BA has said ARN will be operated sometime after October 1st.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/ba-reveals-b...nch-routes-toronto-new-york/newark

vv701 · Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:23 am

Does anyone know the nature of what Australian Business Travel (linked in Reply 16) describes as a "worldwide media launch" for both the 787 and 380 on 5 July (the day after the 380 delivery) at LHR?

Tristarsteve · Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:23 pm

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 16):
According to Business Traveller BA has said ARN will be operated sometime after October 1st.

I do not believe that statement.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):
Does anyone know the nature of what Australian Business Travel (linked in Reply 16) describes as a "worldwide media launch" for both the 787 and 380 on 5 July (the day after the 380 delivery) at LHR?

All I know is that the A380 will fly to LHR on 4 July arriving at 0935 UTC. It will be broadcast internally to staff. It will pull up at LHR next to the B787 and be introduced. This is on 4 July. No idea what happens on the 5th.

Make the most of the two B787 arrivals. When the A380 arrives it will take centre stage. A380 crew training at Manston, will take place before the B787 moves again. When the A380 has finished at Manston, the B787 will move in for two weeks, followed by shorthaul flying in August and service entry on 01Sep.

brilondon · Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:15 pm

Will we see any training flights to EDI from LHR with the 787 subbing in for the 767 or are they just going to have the flight crews trained else where and just start flying when they are scheduled internationally?

b777erj145 · Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:41 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 15):
From 27OCT13, service operates 2 daily on:
BA189 LHR1520 – 1810EWR 788 D
BA187 LHR1725 – 2025EWR 788 x6

BA188 EWR2120 – 0900+1LHR 788 D
BA186 EWR2210 – 1000+1LHR 788 x3

You got the typo with BA 187. Both BA187/186 is x3 btw

N62NA · Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:06 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 15):
From 27OCT13, service operates 2 daily on:
BA189 LHR1520 – 1810EWR 788 D
BA187 LHR1725 – 2025EWR 788 x3

BA188 EWR2120 – 0900+1LHR 788 D
BA186 EWR2210 – 1000+1LHR 788 x3

I wonder if BA will end up switching all 3 EWR flighs to 787, or if they'll keep one of them on the 777.

Also, will the BA 787 have an F cabin? It wouldn't surprise me if BA eliminates F out of EWR, since the airport doesn't really generate much F traffic (as evidenced by UA not offering F on their EWR-LHR flights).

louA340 · Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:46 pm

Wow looks like YYZ is now going to get a few 787's in there. ET, LO and soon BA will all utilize 787's to Toronto. Once AC also receives theirs next year it'll make for some good spotting.

jumpjets · Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:50 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 21):
Also, will the BA 787 have an F cabin? It wouldn't surprise me if BA eliminates F out of EWR, since the airport doesn't really generate much F traffic (as evidenced by UA not offering F on their EWR-LHR flights).

The 788s don't have first class cabins, which takes care of 2 flights a day to EWR this winter. They replace 767s which don't have F either.

So that leaves one flight a day for the 777s - and BA could easily send one of their 3 class 777s without F to keep a consistent service across all three flights or else it could use a refurbished 767 if the 777 is too big..

B747forever · Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 21):
Also, will the BA 787 have an F cabin?

The seat configuration on these 787s is 35 CW, 25 WTP and 154 WT. So no first class.

travelin man · Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:03 pm

What is the capacity impact for EWR and YYZ on BA? (i.e. is the 787 replacing 767s or 777s?)

ba319-131 · Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:26 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 25):
What is the capacity impact for EWR and YYZ on BA? (i.e. is the 787 replacing 767s or 777s?)

- The BA LH 763 fleet seat 24 CW, 24 WTP & 141 Y, so the 788 in BA's config shows a net increase of 25 seats across all classes.

YYCSpotter · Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:52 pm

What happened to YYC? Wasn't YYC supposed to get the 787s 1st? when can we expect to see the 787s in YYC?

ogre727 · Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:01 pm

So no SCL? Is there any hope?

ba319-131 · Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:18 pm

Quoting ogre727 (Reply 28):
So no SCL? Is there any hope?

- Early days, give it time, either LA or BA will operate this route with a 787, give it time.

Tristarsteve · Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:39 pm

Quoting louA340 (Reply 22):
Wow looks like YYZ is now going to get a few 787's in there. ET, LO and soon BA will all utilize 787's to Toronto

Make the most of them this winter. BA will probably go B744/B777 next summer.

Quoting YYCSpotter (Reply 27):
What happened to YYC?

Its coming next summer on todays plans. By July 2014 BA will have 8 B787, and they are planning to fly to 8 destinations. I bet that there are 5 on that list that you would never guess!

SCL767 · Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:41 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 29):
- Early days, give it time, either LA or BA will operate this route with a 787, give it time.

Indeed, the SCL-LHR route will come to fruition in due course, and the 787 is the perfect a/c to launch the route. Many connections are available via LHR that are not available via MAD.

Viscount724 · Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:03 pm

Excerpt from BA press release:

The airline is planning to serve Toronto with the 787 from September 1 and Newark, New York from October 1, subject to regulatory approval.

What "regulatory approval" do they need, especially in two Open Skies markets?

boysteve · Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:33 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 18):
Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 16):
According to Business Traveller BA has said ARN will be operated sometime after October 1st.

I do not believe that statement.

Hmmm, well it would be an odd route to use the B788 on, but;

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 15):
From 27OCT13, service operates 2 daily on:
BA189 LHR1520 %u2013 1810EWR 788 D
BA187 LHR1725 %u2013 2025EWR 788 x6

BA188 EWR2120 %u2013 0900 1LHR 788 D
BA186 EWR2210 %u2013 1000 1LHR 788 x3

So there will be ample time for BA to schedule a European rotation daytime in order to maximise fleet usage, A single daily flight could leave LHR at 11:00 and return at 15:25. However ARN would not be possible, but CDG would for example.

brilondon · Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:02 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 25):
What is the capacity impact for EWR and YYZ on BA? (i.e. is the 787 replacing 767s or 777s?)

Going to YYZ there will be an increase in capacity as there will still be a 744 into YYZ. As for EWR, this will also be a capacity increase as it will most likely replace the 767 on that route as well.

scrappy27 · Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:12 am

crew shall be operating training flights to ARN on the 787 and FRA on the A380.

N62NA · Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:24 am

Quoting brilondon (Reply 34):
As for EWR, this will also be a capacity increase as it will most likely replace the 767 on that route as well.

Won't it be a decrease for EWR? Currently BA is 2x777 and 1x767.

B747forever · Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:39 am

Quoting scrappy27 (Reply 35):

crew shall be operating training flights to ARN on the 787 and FRA on the A380.

That is already known. We are just waiting for BA to announce the dates for the trial periods.

slcdeltarumd11 · Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:20 am

almost the exact same length in miles. Were these selected for some length reason to test or just some of the shortest and most important trans Atlantic flights?

DocLightning · Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:58 am

Why don't they start with short flights to get the crew cycles up?

SASMD82 · Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:01 am

EWR and YYZ are destinations that requires the maximum out of the 787s.

Kidding, why not destinations such as NRT or CPT? EWR and YYZ are 'only' 5,000 km away from LHR.

rtfm · Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:47 pm

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 40):
Kidding, why not destinations such as NRT or CPT? EWR and YYZ are 'only' 5,000 km away from LHR.

Because they'll be replacing 763s that currently operate on some flights on those routes. Which means a slight increase in capacity vs the 763s, better fuel efficieny/cost vs the 763s and will start to allow the 763s to be retired. NRT & CPT are currently operated by 772/774 so changing to a 788 would be a down-grade in size (plus loss of F cabin) plus the down-time (esp at CPT) is considerably longer than at either EWR & YYZ.

Dano1977 · Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:03 pm

BA just put this nice little video on their mugbook page...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsvgDh0JWpw&feature=youtu.be

VC10er · Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:10 pm

Will United try and get one of their 787's out of EWR to LHR ahead of BA?

pnwtraveler · Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:14 pm

Quoting louA340 (Reply 22):
Wow looks like YYZ is now going to get a few 787's in there. ET, LO and soon BA will all utilize 787's to Toronto. Once AC also receives theirs next year it'll make for some good spotting.

And apparently Hainan is looking to increase flights but change to the 788 from the 77W. I wonder how many other Asian carriers will follow suit. Maybe the additional long rumoured Asian carrier is waiting for their 788 to announce service as well. Someone mentioned LAN but I think the 788 is too much aircraft for the route at this point, and you will see a 763 long before that. I am not sure the loads are there for that either.

Love seeing the 788 but I hope that the diversity of aircraft doesn't suffer.

STT757 · Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:32 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 36):
Won't it be a decrease for EWR? Currently BA is 2x777 and 1x767.

They're going from 2 777 and 1 767 to 2 787 and 1777. Whether that's an increase or decrease in capacity I'm not exactly sure, the frequency remains the same and the product offering is greatly improved.

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