Bogi
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A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:39 pm

Is the representation exaggerated?
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2410/83d.png
http://stream.l6.no/sas
 
simairlinenet
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:50 pm

I'd call this a minor to moderate exaggeration. There are certainly deceiving components.

Theory 1
They are using the accounting definition of a sale (revenue recognition) here, which would be upon delivery. So from an accounting standpoint, yes, the A330 has outsold the 787 5 to 1, but from an aviation standpoint, we'd say that the A330 has outdelivered the 787 5 to 1.

Theory 2
They are using net orders instead of gross orders. According to Wikipedia, the 787 has net orders of 120 for 2009-2013. Given the A330's current production rates and backlog, plus timing of this statement, outselling 5 to 1 is certainly possible

Even if not, they are exaggerating with the logos. Have each of these customers placed an A330 order in the last 5 years? No.

[Edited 2013-06-27 12:59:19]
 
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scbriml
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 1):
I'd call this a severe exaggeration.

Not really. The slide is actually saying two separate things.

1 - Airbus has over 800 A330 sales since the 787 was launched in April 2004 (over nine years ago).

2 - In the last five years the A330 has outsold the 787 5-1 since 787 sales were flat or negative for several of those years as Boeing worked through all the delays.

Despite you talking about deliveries, a sale is normally counted in the year it's added to the books.   
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astuteman
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:26 pm

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 1):
I'd call this a minor to moderate exaggeration. There are certainly deceiving components

It's only marketing blurb, but the statements are largely accurate.

The 330 has sold about 840 copies since the launch of the 787. that's a fact.

As for the last 5 years, it's common knowledge that 787 sales completely stalled when the delays kicked in. They peaked at 910 in 2008, and then went rapidly backwards as cancellations hit, staying around 850 sales until literally the last few months. It would be extremely easy for the A330 to have sold 5 times as many copies in the period. So that is also equally likely to be a fact.

But what is also a fact is that the fact is meaningless, as it is measured over a period of time which is not representative of the long term prospects of each type.

Which makes it marketing blurb, and nothing more. Certainly not worth getting tied up about

Stats aside though, for the A330 to sell 840 copies since the launch of the 787 is probably way in excess of what most would have predicted back in 2004. no question the delays helped. But credit to the A330  

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ghifty
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:28 pm

I didn't know DL ordered the A330? Oh, that's right.. they didn't.

Who gets presented this information and do they actually fall victim to this marketing BS (from both A and B)?
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scbriml
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:43 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 4):
I didn't know DL ordered the A330? Oh, that's right.. they didn't.

But Northwest did and they're now Delta.  wink 

[Edited 2013-06-27 13:43:44]
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:49 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 5):
But Northwest did and they're now Delta.

Well, yeah. But the presentation is, "A330 success SINCE 787 launch." NW placed the A330 order before the 787 was launched, so that "success" wasn't "since 787 launch."
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N14AZ
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:49 pm

Quoting Bogi (Thread starter):

Waow! Didn't know that John Leahy is so familiar with PowerPointPresentations.  

I don't know much but what I know is that this thread will be great fun!

So thanks Bogi for launching this thread during this slow-news-phase. What a pitty all the shops in D-registration-land are already closed. Would have preferred to have some potato-chips*) while following this thread...

*) for those firing back into this thread from the other side of the atlantic ocean: please replace "potato chips" with "popcorn"
 
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:55 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 3):
But what is also a fact is that the fact is meaningless, as it is measured over a period of time which is not representative of the long term prospects of each type.

Which makes it marketing blurb, and nothing more.

Which makes one wonder why Airbus bothered to create such a slide.
I'd hope they'd realize that people spending $millions on A330s are knowledgeable enough to "see what they did there" and call them on it.
Either that or they feel their customers are dummies?
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:09 pm

Do people here even understand what the point of marketing is, or do they just get all twisted out of shape for nothing?

I guess the latter.

This is the same as people who believe marketing that says Diet Coke is somehow good for you, you get "fresh" seafood at a Golden Corral, and that wild animals like Shamu love doing tricks in a seapark tank.

USE YOUR BRAINS before you buy!
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dfambro
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:30 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 8):

Which makes one wonder why Airbus bothered to create such a slide.
I'd hope they'd realize that people spending $millions on A330s are knowledgeable enough to "see what they did there" and call them on it.
Either that or they feel their customers are dummies?

I have personal experience with a similar case - actually a more egregious case - from the high-end DNA sequencing business. A competitor was trumpeting an irrelevant technical detail as showing their instrument was superior, but the major customers for high-end DNA sequencing instruments all knew quite well that it was an irrelevant technical detail. So why were they doing it? It seemed clear in that case that the message was meant for investors.

It might be similar here. All the significant customers are going to ignore the marketing presentations and do their own diligence. Investors, on the other hand...
 
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scbriml
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:46 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 6):
Well, yeah. But the presentation is, "A330 success SINCE 787 launch." NW placed the A330 order before the 787 was launched, so that "success" wasn't "since 787 launch."

NW placed an order for 8 A330s on 26th Jan 2005. AFTER the 787 was launched.
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ghifty
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:51 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 10):
Do people here even understand what the point of marketing is, or do they just get all twisted out of shape for nothing?

Marketing sells things. But such low level marketing--like the Diet Coke example you gave--is usually befitting to the masses. Surely (hopefully??) none of the airline CEO's actually fall victim to these slides?
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DUSint
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:53 pm

Quoting dfambro (Reply 11):
It might be similar here. All the significant customers are going to ignore the marketing presentations and do their own diligence. Investors, on the other hand...

Good point. At least for me. Investors and... shareholders.
Another example for this: In another thread (about Airbus having sized the 350 cabin-width right or not) there have been some slides from Boeing showing their estimates of future widebody needs and sales. One could have been puzzled by some of those numbers - as long as you forget that they may have been aimed towards shareholders with the intention to demonstrate how good your products fit to the future needs of airlines. It's the same here with the A330: Of course Airbus has to keep their products looking fresh and up-to-date. The 330 otherwise would look "old" in comparison to the A350 and A380 - so you have to make it look appealing (which it actually is!).
 
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scbriml
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:03 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 13):
Surely (hopefully??) none of the airline CEO's actually fall victim to these slides?

If there's nothing inaccurate or misleading in the slide, how can anyone be a victim of it?   
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AirbusA6
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:08 pm

These advertorials aren't just aimed at airlines, they are also intended to impress investors. Showing that the A330 is still selling really well, and presumably making good profits for Airbus, must be good for the EADS share price!
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DUSint
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:11 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 16):
These advertorials aren't just aimed at airlines, they are also intended to impress investors. Showing that the A330 is still selling really well, and presumably making good profits for Airbus, must be good for the EADS share price!

+

Quoting DUSint (Reply 14):
Investors and... shareholders.

=   
 
copter808
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:17 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 13):
Marketing sells things. But such low level marketing--like the Diet Coke example you gave--is usually befitting to the masses. Surely (hopefully??) none of the airline CEO's actually fall victim to these slides?

But who is this directed at? I would think the masses. Don't most people, other than A-netters, prefer to fly on a "successful" airplane? This is similar to the old "Which would you prefer, 2 engines or 4 engines across the Atlantic?" However, Airbus seems to have forgotten that THEY also had 2 engine aircraft flying the same route!
 
col
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:23 pm

Seems pretty factual to me. Well done to the 330, my staple diet at the moment. Now in 5 years time Boeing can do a new version and it will show them in a good light. Such is life and marketing, let's get over it people.
 
ghifty
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:28 pm

Quoting copter808 (Reply 18):
But who is this directed at? I would think the masses. Don't most people, other than A-netters, prefer to fly on a "successful" airplane? This is similar to the old "Which would you prefer, 2 engines or 4 engines across the Atlantic?" However, Airbus seems to have forgotten that THEY also had 2 engine aircraft flying the same route!

Seeing as to how this was presented at a SAS press conference, I'm going to maintain that this presentation isn't meant for the masses.

In any case, I've always maintained that A and B's customers are the people who are actually buying and operating the aircraft, not merely flying on them.

Airlines purchase aircraft based off of operating economics and not bigger windows, extra wide bodies, lower cabin altitudes, etc. Those are all secondary. If the Boeing 787 had the same operating economics as a 767/A330.. it probably would not be selling in the volumes it currently is, despite having a bunch of extra pax amenities.

This is why I doubt this graphic was intended for the masses.. and also why I never understood why Boeing/Airbus even have en masse marketing to the general public. Remember A's "4 engines 4 long haul" ads? Or some of Boeing's? It's not like John Doe is going to go to his local airplane dealership and pick up a T7.

Airline marketing, like "First to Fly the [insert type]," makes more sense.
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rotating14
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:33 pm

I love the fact that they promote " Flat Floor for greater comfort" at 21:50. As opposed to ???   
 
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Francoflier
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:06 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 8):
Which makes one wonder why Airbus bothered to create such a slide.
I'd hope they'd realize that people spending $millions on A330s are knowledgeable enough to "see what they did there" and call them on it.

Well, on the other hand, it must have taken some dude at Airbus marketing 5 minutes of his time to create that slide on post it on the website... Whatever the slide is worth, it's still good return on investment.  

As for the figure, well. This is the snapshot of an unusual set of circumstances.
The A330 has been maturing into an excellent aircraft over the last decade, and the manufacturing costs have dwindled.
It is such an tried product that customers know exactly what they're buying. It does what it says on the box to the letter and airlines' beancounters can compute all of the associated costs to the second decimal for decades... It is also a product that is passing its peak, meaning that sales will or are starting to decrease.

The 787, on the other hand, had already experienced a post launch sales peak and was passing through the most difficult phase of a program: manufacturing and certification. With all the problems it encountered and the uncertainty it caused to potential buyers, the sales necessarily 'plateau'-ed until the fog cleared. That's is starting to change.

So, one product reaching maturity and another one passing its prime. There's a reason that slide came out now, the curves are about to cross again...

That said, it is certainly a a testament to the quality of the A330. Like a good wine...
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aryonoco
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:10 am

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 23):

I love the fact that they promote " Flat Floor for greater comfort" at 21:50. As opposed to ???

Well you could always put molehills on the floor of an airplane...which would certainly reduce "comfort". Again, nothing wrong with that statement  
 
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:25 am

This, in my opinion, is like comparing apples and oranges. It's like Boeing comparing the success of its 737 line to Airbus's A320 line. The A330 has been on sale far longer than the 787 and, due to production delays and rising fuel costs, was seen as the best interim solution while 787s rolled off the production line. True, sales were slow at first, and for the A330 to break the 1,000 mark after a sudden frenzy of orders is certainly a milestone for Airbus, so credit is due where credit is due.
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AF185
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:33 am

Quoting col (Reply 20):
Seems pretty factual to me.

  

The fact is, the A330 outsold the B787 mainly due to the delays and technical challenges of the latter. Granted technical issues are completely solved, the B787 will outsell the A330 in the next 5 years... oh wait now the A350 is flying  
 
Farzan
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:42 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 24):
So, one product reaching maturity and another one passing its prime. There's a reason that slide came out now, the curves are about to cross again...

  
 
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:04 am

Quoting AF185 (Reply 27):
The fact is, the A330 outsold the B787 mainly due to the delays and technical challenges of the latter.


2 cents. The A330 is still a much better airplane than the 788 (reliability, availability). It's also cheaper. Over time, the 788 will come into its own. But in the long run, we're all dead. The A330 has been the best small widebody for over a decade, and still is today. The 787 can't honestly run all A330 ops this year. Not reliable enough yet.


A330's years of results have paid many bills and justified many orders. It's not all about the future. Time value of money.
 
astuteman
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:07 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
No doubt Boeing will soon come up with a PP slide showing how well the 777 has sold since the A350 launched

Or something like. Which is why I don't understand why some of us get so bent out of shape about it.
It doesn't change the majesty of the aircraft we come on here to enjoy. So ignore it. And its competitors inevitable equivalent  

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lightsaber
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:20 am

Quoting Bogi (Thread starter):

Is the representation exaggerated?

   However, it should be noted that Airbus did place quite a few A330s on shorter term leases... So I expect the A330 resale market to be interesting in 2020... Not to the point Airbus or the banks lose money, just interesting...

I don't understand the anger. There have been numerous orders and top off orders of the A330 since the 787 was launched. The 787 launch was botched (and that is putting it nicely). I personally think it will take the 789 to really dent the A330 sales momentum as the A333 is quite economical up to the ten hour mission versus the 788.

And since the 787 launch, the A332 sales really have been on the back burner. So we are mostly talking the A333 now. What Airbus needs to do is keep the line alive until the freight market recovers and then A330F sales will keep the line going...

I was one of the few here who predicted a continued sales life for the A330 after the 787 was launched. It has to do with economics of a plane already in production and the quantity of the new aircraft it takes to make the old one noncompetitive. Heck, look how long it is taking the A330 to kill off the 767!  
Quoting Flighty (Reply 29):
The 787 can't honestly run all A330 ops this year. Not reliable enough yet.

Which is expected of a new aircraft. (The 788 just wasn't supposed to be new in 2013...) But in 5 years...

Quoting AF185 (Reply 27):
The fact is, the A330 outsold the B787 mainly due to the delays and technical challenges of the latter. Granted technical issues are completely solved, the B787 will outsell the A330 in the next 5 years... oh wait now the A350 is flying

And the competition continues... It is going to be really interesting for *any* aircraft less economical than the A330 once we have production up to:
A330, well over a hundred a year.
787, at a hundred a year (or more)
A350, is supposed to go to 10 per month (hundred a year), but there is talk of a line acceleration.

So if we do see 250+ mid-size widebodies produced per year (plus 80 777s, 20 ish A380s, and a dozen 748s), every other less efficient widebody is going to be hard pressed to maintain its niche. I fully expect an accelerated 'trickle down' replacement schedule to quickly remove 767s, A340s (in particular A345s and A346s), and 744s from the global fleet. It will also be a rapid close to the tri-jet era...

Cest la vie. That is a consequence of very low interest rates (rapid fleet updates funded by low Capital costs).

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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:21 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 31):
However, it should be noted that Airbus did place quite a few A330s on shorter term leases... So I expect the A330 resale market to be interesting in 2020... Not to the point Airbus or the banks lose money, just interesting...

Maybe not too early for the P2F market - especially as these later frames will make more capable freighters?
 
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:23 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 7):
What a pitty all the shops in D-registration-land are already closed. Would have preferred to have some potato-chips*) while following this thread...

Who needs popcorn when there are so many sour grapes to pick...   

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 31):
the A332 sales really have been on the back burner.

I thought that was more to do with the stellar increase in A333 performance...
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:30 am

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 33):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 31):
the A332 sales really have been on the back burner.

I thought that was more to do with the stellar increase in A333 performance...

There are clearly some customers who need 5000nm + range where initially the A332 was the only A330 with the capability but I suspect for most customers its more because the operating cost of an A333 is almost identical to an A332 but you can carry a lot more so why not get the bigger bird.
 
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:32 am

Quoting trex8 (Reply 34):
There are clearly some customers who need 5000nm + range where initially the A332 was the only A330 with the capability but I suspect for most customers its more because the operating cost of an A333 is almost identical to an A332 but you can carry a lot more so why not get the bigger bird.

The modern-day A333 has come a *long* way since the launched A333 model.
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BestWestern
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:33 am

Amazing how people give out about airbus so-called mistrust with false statements.

Looks like some people can't stand the other sides success.

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 1):
They are using the accounting definition of a sale (revenue recognition) here, which would be upon delivery. So from an accounting standpoint, yes, the A330 has outsold the 787 5 to 1, but from an aviation standpoint, we'd say that the A330 has outdelivered the 787 5 to 1.

False

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 1):
They are using the accounting definition of a sale (revenue recognition) here, which would be upon delivery.

False

Quoting ghifty (Reply 4):

I didn't know DL ordered the A330? Oh, that's right.. they didn't.

False

Quoting ghifty (Reply 6):
NW placed the A330 order before the 787 was launched

False

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 9):
Crap like that is why I really despise their sales team...

False
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BestWestern
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:58 am

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 20):
I love the fact that they promote " Flat Floor for greater comfort" at 21:50. As opposed to ???

All explained in the presentation which you watched....

Basically all cabling for IFE and seat controls is driven from under the floor, rather than via anti slip cable holdings we are all used to, but ignore.

The claim is that this reduces the cleaning time - easier to clean a floor with no obstructions - and therefore the turnaround time. No doubt it also reduces the maintenance issues - less wear and tear on the cables and housing.

In all, the airbus presentation was very informative.

The information on the ease of cross crewing between aircraft types was very interesting. 24 day training down to 7 days is a massive manpower saving.
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Bogi
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:16 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 7):
Waow! Didn't know that John Leahy is so familiar with PowerPointPresentations.
This PowerPointPresentation has made Airbus A350 XWB Marketing Director Mike Bausor.
 
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:57 pm

Quoting dfambro (Reply 10):
It seemed clear in that case that the message was meant for investors.

Quite plausible.

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 20):
I love the fact that they promote " Flat Floor for greater comfort" at 21:50. As opposed to ???

The aviation historian in me loves to point out that one of many reasons the Boeing 247 lost out to the DC-1/2/3 in the 1930s is that the wing spar ran through the main cabin, so FAs and pax had to step over it! How's that for B versus D smack talk?

Quoting astuteman (Reply 27):
Or something like. Which is why I don't understand why some of us get so bent out of shape about it.

I think 'bent out of shape' is an exaggeration in my case.

That being said, I think when one is selling a product worth millions of dollars I feel one should in general tout the merits of your product and avoid exaggerating the deficiencies of your competitor's product, which this slide seems to do by comparing two products at very different stages of their lifecycles.

I would think that in this market segment the customers and investors both would prefer a classier approach.

Note I'm not saying B is classier than A, which to me is a different discussion.

I am saying that while this slide is facual, it is deceptive because it compares two products at very different phases of their lifecycle.

As above I'm not bent out of shape over it, but personally I'd hope for better. What others hope for is up to them.
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astuteman
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:00 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
I think 'bent out of shape' is an exaggeration in my case.

For what its worth it wasn't intended to be aimed at any specific person, least of all your good self...
just a general observation.

Rgds
 
RubberJungle
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:06 pm

Orders and deliveries over the past five years:


Between January 2008 and May 2013 the A330 has landed 459 gross orders. The 787 has taken 256.

Airbus has delivered 469 A330s in the same time period, against the 787's 57.
 
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:09 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 37):
For what its worth it wasn't intended to be aimed at any specific person, least of all your good self...
just a general observation.

Thanks for pointing that out. I do realize it wasn't directed at any one person.

It's probably a good time to point out that threads get tens if not hundreds times more reads than posts, and in general the posts tend to happen when one holds a strong opinion one way or the other which tends to exaggerate the more extreme of the opinions. We can see this effect all over the Internet. I know I've "posted in anger" taking positions that I've later not felt anywhere near as strong about just because I let a posting provoke me or because I was "having a bad day".

That being said, it is strange to read a posting saying that a person hates a marketing department, but perhaps that too was an "exaggeration for effect".
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pnwtraveler
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:33 pm

What this really goes to show is the Anetters, who don't have a real clue about airline needs and business orders, seem to think an aircraft goes past its best by date the minute a "more technically advanced" aircraft is launched. Sooo 767's are still being delivered and people don't seem to understand that. A330's are delivered while the 787 is being delivered (yes delayed, yes extra battery delay). 777's are being ordered despite the A350 in testing. And so on and so on and so on. Hence all the stupid statements about 767's still being ordered, A333's, B748i etc. So an order for a 767 isn't a slap against the A333 or the B787, that is far too simplistic an analysis.

Who orders what and how is interesting, but not really significant. Total sales is more a measure of an aircraft's true success. And even more accurate is how aircraft are ordered for the segment they are intended for and therefore market penetration of that segment.

What matters to an airline is pool of aircraft and top up orders vs. economics of adding a new type. Strip off the top up orders from above and you have a different picture. A slide looking at how many 787 orders were canceled and replaced with A333 would be more indicative. Or even how many airlines ordered both and are they deploying them very differently or are they using them interchangeably. Add in an analysis of what aircraft the new A333's are replacing or whether they are for growth. Then you just start to get a picture.

I have loved flying on the A333 and will be sad when AC drops them from their fleet. I will also be looking forward very much to flying the AC 788 and 789. The two are not mutually exclusive for me, maybe I am just weird.
 
wingman
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:36 pm

Don't Airbus and it's followers claim that the 330 and the 340 are the same plane and must always be counted as one? If that is true then shouldn't the 330 be counted against the 777 and all its variants as well? Or shouldn't we simply count what is "one aircraft" at Airbus against all aircraft this "one" competes against from Boeing? I would add all 777 sales and the 763ER to the tally, inclusive of freighters. Should be a much closer tally then.
 
tortugamon
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:38 pm

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 38):
Orders and deliveries over the past five years:

I changed the models but left everything else:

Between January 2008 and May 2013 the A351 has landed 88 orders. The 77W has taken 356.

Airbus has delivered 0 A351s in the same time period, against the 77W's 284.



IMO, these set of numbers are equally as irrelevant as the ones that they replace. You cannot compare two frames based solely on the orders that they have received especially if they are in very different places in their life cycle.

tortugamon

[Edited 2013-06-28 07:41:02]
 
frmrCapCadet
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:54 pm

Consulting companies ads a superbowls are aimed at high and midlevel executives who sign contracts.

Very large employers may run ads whose primary audience is employees, often (implicitly) to thank or inform.

If a President is known to watch a particular event I would be surprised if a TV ad or two have not been so aimed.


Likely it already has been mentioned but one possible target is simply a thankyou to those who ordered, in form of airline logos. Anyone able to analyze logo size and order?

[Edited 2013-06-28 08:28:04]
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scbriml
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:01 pm

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 1):

I only just realised that you edited your post after I'd replied to it.

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 1):
Theory 1
They are using the accounting definition of a sale (revenue recognition) here, which would be upon delivery.

Both manufacturers count orders when they're booked, not when the planes are delivered.

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 1):
Theory 2
They are using net orders instead of gross orders. According to Wikipedia, the 787 has net orders of 120 for 2009-2013.

Orders received in a calendar year = gross orders. Gross orders - cancellations in the same year = net orders. Net orders are the correct measure of what was added to the backlog in that year. I cannot see where you're getting 120 net orders for the 787 in 2009-2013. Wiki shows 2009 = -59, 2010 = -4, 2011 = 13, 2012 = -12, 2013 = 82, a net total over that period of 20.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_787_orders_and_deliveries

787 net sales


Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 1):
Even if not, they are exaggerating with the logos. Have each of these customers placed an A330 order in the last 5 years? No.

The slide is showing who has purchased the 800+ A330s since the 787 was launched. The "last five years" gloat is just a footnote.
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Norcal773
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:16 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 9):
This is the same as people who believe marketing that says Diet Coke is somehow good for you, you get "fresh" seafood at a Golden Corral, and that wild animals like Shamu love doing tricks in a seapark tank.

Haha, that's an AWESOME way to put it!
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RubberJungle
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:31 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 42):
these set of numbers are equally as irrelevant as the ones that they replace

I wasn't making any judgement over their relevance, or meaning, just putting the figures up for others to argue about.
 
roseflyer
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:21 pm

Maybe Boeing should counter with a 777 Success since A350 launch and advertise how many 777 orders have been received since the A350 was launched.

This is just a marketing gimmick.
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Bogi
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:02 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 19):
Seeing as to how this was presented at a SAS press conference, I'm going to maintain that this presentation isn't meant for the masses.
Oh yes, see: http://new.livestream.com/accounts/4...869/events/2200412/videos/22558248
 
cubastar
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RE: A330 Success Since 787 Launch

Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:15 pm

IMHO, this has to go down as one of the most nonsensical threads ever that I have observed on A.net. (Both Sides.)

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