nutsaboutplanes
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:49 pm

US Airways has stopped RJ flying in PHX as of 1500 due to high temperatures as CRJ performance charts stop at 117.7 degrees. It is currently 118 at PHX.
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dlramp4life
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:52 pm

So who stopped the flying? OO or Mesa? Are other airlines like DL,AA,and UA affected by this? (If OO ground stopped RJs)
 
B757capt
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:57 pm

All CRJs have been grounded. They are not certified to fly above temps 117 (48C) and higher.
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Viscount724
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:58 pm

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Thread starter):
US Airways has stopped RJ flying in PHX as of 1500 due to high temperatures as CRJ performance charts stop at 117.7 degrees. It is currently 118 at PHX.

Ironically (considering their country of origin), AC (Jazz) had to cancel CRJ flights to a few points in northern Canada a few years ago when temperatures dropped below -40 (the only temperature that's equal in F and C) for several days. I think -40 is the CRJ's lowest certified operating temperature. Competitors operating 737s maintained normal operations.
 
cornutt
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:08 pm

Quoting b757capt (Reply 2):
All CRJs have been grounded. They are not certified to fly above temps 117 (48C) and higher.

Is it a function of engine power or lift that makes them not able to fly at these temperatures?
 
JAAlbert
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:16 pm

Are the airlines substituting in larger aircraft or are passengers just stuck without flights?

What this means is that folks needing to travel in the summer probably need to leave early morning or later in the evening, though at 118 during the day, I'm not sure how much cooler it gets at night!
 
Cactus739
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:22 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 1):

So who stopped the flying? OO or Mesa? Are other airlines like DL,AA,and UA affected by this? (If OO ground stopped RJs)

quick check on Flightaware:

A Skywest CR7 to LAX cancelled (I believe this is a United flight)
A Skywest CR2 to LAX cancelled (AA)
A Skywest CR9 to LAX delayed by 1:26 (DL)

A Mesa CR9 to Oakland delayed by 1:48
A Mesa CR9 to Puerto Vallarta delayed almost 5 hours (has to be more than weather there)
A Mesa CR9 to Fresno delayed 1:32

A Repblic E-190 to Denver delayed by 2+ hours (Frontier's website shows a 45 minute delay)

So looks like its everyone... is the E190 restricted to 117 too?
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LAXintl
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:28 pm

America West used to cancel mainline flights when it hit 122. 737 fleet was certified to max 121 degrees.
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futureualpilot
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:34 pm

Quoting cornutt (Reply 4):
Is it a function of engine power or lift that makes them not able to fly at these temperatures?

Physically they could still probably fly (although it might be a struggle) but most transport category aircraft do not have performance charts for temperatures this high.

To the best of my knowledge -40C and ISA+35(ish) are the temp limits for most airliners. I'm sure some have different limitations but in my experience these seem to be common numbers.

[Edited 2013-06-29 16:36:09]

[Edited 2013-06-29 16:36:27]
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RWA380
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:36 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
America West used to cancel mainline flights when it hit 122. 737 fleet was certified to max 121 degrees.

Sounds like a reason, any carrier should think about using PHX as a big hub of operations. With the onset of global warming, the expectation is that we will only see increases in temperatures as the years go by. Just a thought from a realistic perspective.
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nutsaboutplanes
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:38 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 5):
Are the airlines substituting in larger aircraft or are passengers just stuck without flights?

No, most of these are resulting in long delays and cancellations. This heat is extreme even for PHX.
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BD338
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:44 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 9):
Sounds like a reason, any carrier should think about using PHX as a big hub of operations.

This heat is unusual even for Phoenix. In the 10+ years I have lived in Phoenix, I recall 115+ only once or twice and never flight suspensions due to heat. Now, airlines that site mega hubs in areas prone to tornadoes and severe thunderstorms must be crazy.    
 
behramjee
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:52 pm

yes even in Saudi Arabia, Oman and Bahrain, the E70s/E75s are not allowed to take off if the on ground temperature at the time is or exceeds 46 C !

The E90s though dont have a problem with this but the smaller E70 family does!
 
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treebeard787
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:26 am

Quoting BD338 (Reply 11):

This heat is unusual even for Phoenix. In the 10+ years I have lived in Phoenix, I recall 115+ only once or twice and never flight suspensions due to heat. Now, airlines that site mega hubs in areas prone to tornadoes and severe thunderstorms must be crazy.

I recall many 115 degree days while growing up in the valley. PHX always gets a few days in the summer that reach the 115 mark, or more sometimes, it isn't anything new or crazy. It is the Sonoran desert after all. Its only topped 120 once in the PHX area as far as I know and that was one of the only times when flights were effected by the heat.
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ely747
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:27 am

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 8):
most transport category aircraft do not have performance charts for temperatures this high.


Why is this the case? One would assume performance charts of all plane makers are standardized by the ICAO. Kuwait for instance gets 50°C or above every summer.

On a different note, would refuelling in these extreme temperatures become an issue?
 
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LAXintl
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Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:45 am

Don't forget, its not just physical temperature, but density altitude which plays a role.

For example 117 degrees at standard barometric pressure at PHX airport which is at 1,100 feet above see level is equivalent to being at ~4,800 feet today.
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PSAjet17
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:46 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
America West used to cancel mainline flights when it hit 122. 737 fleet was certified to max 121 degrees.

I believe the B737 is certified up to 128°F, not 121°. The problem that occured on June 26, 1990 was that the flight operations data that each pilot carried for the HP B737s only went up to 119/120. The aircraft could fly at the 122 or even highter temps, the pilots just did not have the data sheets for the upper limits and legally the aircraft could not be dispatched.
 
SPREE34
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:52 am

When this happened back in 90, SWA had charts for the higher temps. Looks like the competition didn't learn.
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Beardown91737
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:53 am

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 13):
Its only topped 120 once in the PHX area as far as I know and that was one of the only times when flights were effected by the heat.

That was in about this time of late June in 1990. I was here in Southern California that week interviewing for jobs.

I also looked to see what other airports may have had hotter days and were are the records I found.

IFP 126
PSP 123
PHX 122
ONT 117
TUS 117
FAT 115
LAS 115
LAX 113
SAN 111
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rampart
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:59 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):

America West used to cancel mainline flights when it hit 122. 737 fleet was certified to max 121 degrees.
Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 8):
Physically they could still probably fly (although it might be a struggle) but most transport category aircraft do not have performance charts for temperatures this high.
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 9):
Sounds like a reason, any carrier should think about using PHX as a big hub of operations. With the onset of global warming, the expectation is that we will only see increases in temperatures as the years go by. Just a thought from a realistic perspective.

I would have thought that airlines and manufacturers would have figured out how to certify for those times when temperatures exceed 50C. They've had since 1992 or whenever it was when PHX set its record and the airport closed for half day. I remember it well. I was biking to work! Figure that out, and PHX is no worse for hub operations than any other challenging weather situation elsewhere.

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Maverick623
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:00 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
For example 117 degrees at standard barometric pressure at PHX airport which is at 1,100 feet above see level is equivalent to being at ~4,800 feet today.

PHX AWOS was reporting the DA was 5300ft.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 9):
Sounds like a reason, any carrier should think about using PHX as a big hub of operations. With the onset of global warming, the expectation is that we will only see increases in temperatures as the years go by. Just a thought from a realistic perspective.

Hardly realistic.

So PHX gets grounded for 2 hours a day, maybe 3 days a year. How many days is ORD or EWR not in a ground delay/stop?

 
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Okie
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:04 am

Quoting ely747 (Reply 14):

On a different note, would refuelling in these extreme temperatures become an issue?

No but 120F is an issue for the rampers. Pretty hard to expect people to function at a hard work pace at those temps for extended periods of time. Heaven forbid if they had a bottle of water.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Don't forget, its not just physical temperature, but density altitude which plays a role.

For example 117 degrees at standard barometric pressure at PHX airport which is at 1,100 feet above see level is equivalent to being at ~4,800 feet today.

  
The aircraft could careless the temperature, the density is going to dictate the amount of lift created at what speed as well as the thrust generated by the turbines.

Quoting ely747 (Reply 14):
One would assume performance charts of all plane makers are standardized by the ICAO. Kuwait for instance gets 50°C or above every summer.

Every manufacturer certificates their aircraft to certain specifications that are submitted to regulatory organizations.
One of the issues that I suspect with the RJ's is that they have pretty small tires which may not be designed to handle the increased landing and take-off speeds that would be required for the higher temps/densities, but that is just a guess.

Okie
 
nutsaboutplanes
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:11 am

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 17):
When this happened back in 90, SWA had charts for the higher temps. Looks like the competition didn't learn.

Are you suggesting that today's grounding of USX RJ's is due to a failure by the airline?
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flyby519
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:11 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 20):
So PHX gets grounded for 2 hours a day, maybe 3 days a year. How many days is ORD or EWR not in a ground delay/stop?

Probably 2 hours a day and 3 days a year where EWR/ORD arent in some sort of delay program  
 
MIflyer12
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:16 am

Any A330 pilots care to jump in? What's the max pass + cargo weight on a hypothetical US A333 LAX-NRT on a 90 degree F day (5 degrees above the LAX monthly average August high; July is 1F cooler). What's the available pass + cargo weight PHX-NRT on a 107 degree F day (PHX's average July daily high)? Many thanks.
 
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RWA380
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:23 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 20):
Hardly realistic.

I wondered how long it would take before this comment showed up, PHX will be seeing more high temp days as our planets climates continue to change, decades from now it'll be more than 2 a year, that is realism.
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iowaman
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Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:24 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 18):
LAS 115

LAS hit 115 today and is a little higher in elevation then PHX. I was listening to LAS Tower late last night (after it "cooled off" some) and there was a US A321 LAS-DCA who couldn't accepted 25R for departure due to weight restrictions. Tower offered to give them radar vectors out of the valley as apparently they were concerned they couldn't meet the departure climbs. They had to depart 7L full length instead to take advantage of a 0.9% grade downhill while arrivals were landing 25L.
 
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Acey559
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:58 am

The EMB-145 series has a max operating temp of 52C at -1000 (the lowest certified altitude). I'd have to look at the books to figure out what it is for PHX, but either way, that's pretty darn hot and it sounds like the West isn't going to get relief any time soon.
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laxlocal
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:02 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 18):
Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 18):
That was in about this time of late June in 1990. I was here in Southern California that week interviewing for jobs.

I also looked to see what other airports may have had hotter days and were are the records I found.


IFP 126
PSP 123
PHX 122
ONT 117
TUS 117
FAT 115
LAS 115
LAX 113
SAN 111


No offense intended, but LAX has NEVER experienced 113 degrees. Downtown L.A. maybe, but not LAX

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wn676
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:37 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 25):
PHX will be seeing more high temp days as our planets climates continue to change, decades from now it'll be more than 2 a year, that is realism.

The temperature today affected ops for maybe less than an hour. This is the first day this year that this has happened. To reiterate Maverick's point, compare that to other large hub airports - SFO, EWR, ORD, take your pick - and tell us how their weather problems/delays affect their hub status.
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Beardown91737
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:41 am

Quoting LAXLocal (Reply 28):
No offense intended, but LAX has NEVER experienced 113 degrees. Downtown L.A. maybe, but not LAX

You are right. It is 110 per NOAA:

Quote:

Los Angeles Airport Area (ThreadEx Station)
Extremes
Highest Daily Maximum Temperature (degrees F)
Days: 1/1 - 12/31
Length of period: 1 day
Years: 1944-2013

Rank Value Ending Date
1 110 9/26/1963
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crownvic
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:21 am

Quoting iowaman (Reply 26):

LAS hit 115 today and is a little higher in elevation then PHX. I was listening to LAS Tower late last night (after it "cooled off" some) and there was a US A321 LAS-DCA who couldn't accepted 25R for departure due to weight restrictions. Tower offered to give them radar vectors out of the valley as apparently they were concerned they couldn't meet the departure climbs. They had to depart 7L full length instead to take advantage of a 0.9% grade downhill while arrivals were landing 25L.

Density altitude in the afternoon today hit 6500 feet, so I am sure there were some departure issues. According to the local news, some foreign carriers ha to push departures back into the evening, because of the heat, bit no specific airlines were mentioned. More than likely, this would have applied to BA, VA, Condor or KAL.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:50 am

Forgive me for not being knowledgeable in this area, but what kind of effect (if any) would this heat have on high elevation airports? For example, RNO is at 4,400 ft and hit 102 today and of course gets plenty of RJ's
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Maverick623
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:58 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 25):
decades from now it'll be more than 2 a year, that is realism.

It is nothing more than pure speculation.

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 33):
For example, RNO is at 4,400 ft and hit 102 today and of course gets plenty of RJ's

Weight restrictions for sure, but the issue with the RJs in PHX today was that the performance charts only go up to 47C (about 116F). Once it hits 48C (118F), as it did for two hours today, the airplanes can't legally operate.
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MrBuzzcut
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:03 am

It's been brutal all over the southwest lately. ABQ recorded 104 a couple of days back with a field elevation of 5310, dew point 22 and altimiter 30.13 giving a density altitude of 9300 feet. Not sure if any effect on ops but I imagine it may have for some aircraft. 8/26 is just over 13,000 feet long, I'd imagine they needed every bit of that.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:08 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 18):
SAN 111


When did that happen?!
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HAL
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:11 am

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 24):
Any A330 pilots care to jump in? What's the max pass + cargo weight on a hypothetical US A333 LAX-NRT on a 90 degree F day (5 degrees above the LAX monthly average August high; July is 1F cooler). What's the available pass + cargo weight PHX-NRT on a 107 degree F day (PHX's average July daily high)? Many thanks.

I can't speak for the US 333s, and any discussion of performance has to deal with a lot more than just temperature at departure, including runway slope, obstacles, enroute winds, barometric pressure, ETOPS considerations, etc. Unless someone here has access to a dispatch planner at US or another 330 airline, nobody is going to come close to a real answer.

On our (HA) 332s, the max temp for takeoff comes from an 'environmental envelope' graph. In general, max operating temp is 55C at SL and below (pressure altitude). This reduces in a linear fashion to 30C at the max certified takeoff altitude of 12,500 feet. FYI, minimum temperature for takeoff is -54C up to a pressure altitude of 6000 feet, then a linear increase to -37C at 12,500 feet.

So armed with all that info, what is the answer to your original question? I have absolutely no idea, because there are too many variables to come up with even an educated guess. I have taken a full load of passengers, cargo, and fuel HNL-SYD, and we were within a thousand pounds of our max gross takeoff weight at 29C. That's about 4400nm, but again, winds, obstacles, ETOPS and alternate fuel all had to figure into that range figure.

HAL
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Okie
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:11 am

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 33):
Forgive me for not being knowledgeable in this area, but what kind of effect (if any) would this heat have on high elevation airports

Well you need the actual barometric pressue and dew point to calculate as well but roughly 8,300ft, for 4,[email protected]

The problem largly is related to the CRJ's not being certified to the higher temps not all RJ's
In any case I suspect anything out of RNO is not necessarily long haul being light on fuel and load using a lot of runway with those conditions.

Okie
 
Beardown91737
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:25 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 36):
When did that happen?!
http://www.weather.com/outlook/trave...cationclimatology/monthly/USCA0982 Sept 26, 1963

I found a Weather Underground page that suggests it was at Mirimar and not Lindbergh, now I can't find it again. It was 109 at SAN that day. If you don't beleive that, please supply a better link or a better picture.
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AWACSooner
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:42 am

Quoting cornutt (Reply 4):
Is it a function of engine power or lift that makes them not able to fly at these temperatures?

It's all about TOLD and density altitude.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:54 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 41):
If you don't beleive that, please supply...a better picture.

Hey, I was just being silly. I damn near spit out my beer when I read that, not because I don't believe you but because that's incredible! I don't even think I've seen it reach 90 at SAN. Since temps typically go up one degree for every mile inland in SD county, I'm glad I wasn't around that day!!
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:59 am

Quoting HAL (Reply 37):
I have taken a full load of passengers, cargo, and fuel HNL-SYD, and we were within a thousand pounds of our max gross takeoff weight at 29C. That's about 4400nm, but again, winds, obstacles, ETOPS and alternate fuel all had to figure into that range figure.

Thanks for taking a moment to respond to the question. HNL seems to have some range advantages with sea level altitude and moderate temperatures - historic max of 95F on weather.com.
 
daviation
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:55 pm

Quoting MrBuzzcut (Reply 35):
ABQ recorded 104 a couple of days back with a field elevation of 5310

A few years ago I flew from ABQ - ORD on an AA MD80 at midday on a 100+ degree summer day. The flight crew offloaded some cargo and some passengers (asking for volunteers first, of course). That particular takeoff roll seemed endless, and when the plane finally rotated the wings shuddered in a way I'd never seen before.

Eilat Israel has a 6200 foot runway with summer temperatures often exceeding 100F. They fly 757s, 320s, etc. I guess it's possible because the airfield is at sea level.
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divemaster08
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:28 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 21):
No but 120F is an issue for the rampers. Pretty hard to expect people to function at a hard work pace at those temps for extended periods of time. Heaven forbid if they had a bottle of water.

And the temps on the ramp can feel a lot hotter with all the movement going on down on the ramps. We down here get temps just around 90F, but down on the ramp in the beating sun, its well over 100!


I wonder also how the Packs handle this temperature change. Could be in risk of getting ducts overheating also with these mad temps!
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United_fan
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:44 pm

I feel bad for the ground crews in such heat .
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ozark1
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:17 pm

Quoting BD338 (Reply 11):
Now, airlines that site mega hubs in areas prone to tornadoes and severe thunderstorms must be crazy.

Lovely! I have read articles saying that, as global warming continues, the desert southwest will move eastward and include DFW. We are in a drought now, though not as bad as some other parts of the state, we can have great thunderstorms, I've heard the tornado siren in my neighborhood three times so far this year, and we always have hellish summers. Now we have something ELSE to look forward too!  
 
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zeke
Posts: 13695
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:29 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 24):

The A330 can do in excess of MTOW off all runways except 06L/24R at 33 degC out of LAX nil wind std pressure. I do not have PHX in the database, it will do 228 t out of RUH which has around 850 ft higher elevation, and 230 t out of ONT which is slightly lower at 43 degC nil wind std pressure. It will do over 235t at 40 degC in ONT.
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MountainFlyer
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:40 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 9):
Sounds like a reason, any carrier should think about using PHX as a big hub of operations.

Why? If that is the case, then what about major thunderstorms (ORD, MSP, CLE, ATL, DEN, IAH, DFW, DTW) or snowstorms (DEN, MSP, ORD), or hurricanes (MIA, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, EWR, LGA, JFK), or catastrophic earthquakes (LAX, SFO, SEA)? Maybe I'm stretching a bit here, but all of the above have the potential to do far far more damage to operations than heat, and in the case of thunderstorms and snowstorms, probably occur at least as often, and can be much more debilitating. It seems like every year either DEN or ORD is digging out of a massive snowstorm.

I guess with global warming, maybe SLC will be the superhub of the future.  
Quoting BD338 (Reply 11):
This heat is unusual even for Phoenix.

Really? I honestly don't know, but that sounds surprising. I lived in SE Washington State for a number of years where it was not unusual to see ten or more 100+ degree days, often 105 or even 110 plus each summer. I would think PHX would see worse than that on a regular basis, but I've never lived there, so I don't know.
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treebeard787
Posts: 733
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RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:54 pm

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 52):
Really? I honestly don't know, but that sounds surprising. I lived in SE Washington State for a number of years where it was not unusual to see ten or more 100+ degree days, often 105 or even 110 plus each summer. I would think PHX would see worse than that on a regular basis, but I've never lived there, so I don't know.

It reached 119F at PHX yesterday afternoon, that kind of temp is rare but not unheard of. June into July is typically the hottest time of the summer with many days getting to 110 or more. I have to say that global warming has nothing to do with this heat we are having, its a desert and it gets hot here, we didn't even breach the record high of 122 set back in 1990. I have lived in the PHX area for some 20 years and I remember many days that were in the 110-115 range.

The monsoon moisture is starting to show up now as well, the dew point is up to 59F.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/pns/2013/June/heatwave_climate.php
NWS on the heat.

[Edited 2013-06-30 09:57:52]
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cubastar
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:48 pm

RE: Too HOT For RJ's IN PHX

Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:18 pm

Quoting divemaster08 (Reply 48):
I wonder also how the Packs handle this temperature change. Could be in risk of getting ducts overheating also with these mad temps!

The packs (air cycle machines on the 727) handle it okay. The ducts also as the air is sufficiently cooled by the time the cabin air leaves the packs.

What happens on very hot days, some aircraft (i.e. 727) you would have to perform a "packs off" takeoff. The packs themselves were run off of bleed air from the engines, so with the packs off, the engines were more likely to perform more efficiently and the egt's would run just a little cooler. However, they still frequently ran right at the "red line" limits.

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