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ridgid727
Topic Author
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Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:33 am

It appears that Silver airways will not be re-bidding the essential air services contract for Montana. Of course most think that ZK will bid for it. I was wondering in Pen Air wouldn't be a better suitor for this.

Here is the article out of Billings.

http://helenair.com/news/local/silve...2-e02c-11e2-97f8-0019bb2963f4.html
 
hatbutton
Posts: 285
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:04 am

Quoting ridgid727 (Thread starter):
It appears that Silver airways will not be re-bidding the essential air services contract for Montana. Of course most think that ZK will bid for it. I was wondering in Pen Air wouldn't be a better suitor for this.

If Penair were to use something smaller than the Saab then maybe they'd better. The reality is, these markets are almost too small for even a 19 seater which is what ZK and Silver used. Cape Air really would be the best carrier given their track record and recent successes in the Midwest. But that would all depend on them being able to find more 402s.
 
FLDude
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:29 am

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 1):
But that would all depend on them being able to find more 402s.

What about the Cessna 208 Caravan? I know it would be a new type for Cape Air, but it might work.
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:19 pm

Anyone miss BIG SKY AIRLINES? YET


I think Seaborne would be a good fit with the PC-12
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
ual777
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:54 pm

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 1):
If Penair were to use something smaller than the Saab then maybe they'd better. The reality is, these markets are almost too small for even a 19 seater which is what ZK and Silver used. Cape Air really would be the best carrier given their track record and recent successes in the Midwest. But that would all depend on them being able to find more 402s.

they are too small, hence the EAS route....
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
doug_or
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:09 pm

Would the 402 really be a suitable airplane for year round Montana service? Between weather and mountains I would think a pressurized turbine would almost be a prerequisite.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
hatbutton
Posts: 285
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:16 pm



Quoting ual777 (Reply 4):
they are too small, hence the EAS route....

I realize they are EAS. Which is why I propose an airline who flies a 9 seat aircraft rather than even a 19 seater. The reality is, two of these cities just lost their EAS subsidy because the subsidy per pax climbed too high. Would that have happened if the routes were flown using a 9 seat aircraft? I doubt it. A 19 seater is too much aircraft and costs too much to operate to carry 1 or 2 passengers per flight. Which is why I think Cape Air would be the best airline to fill the service.

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 5):
Would the 402 really be a suitable airplane for year round Montana service? Between weather and mountains I would think a pressurized turbine would almost be a prerequisite.

Well Cape Air has made it's living flying in the frigid Northeast during the winter. And if you look at a map of Montana, all these EAS routes are in Eastern Montana where it's as flat as the Midwest. None of these routes fly over any type of mountainous terrain whatsoever.

[Edited 2013-06-30 09:21:43]
 
thrufru
Posts: 117
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:55 pm

1 or 2 passengers per flight doesn't seem like a place that needs any air service.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting ual777 (Reply 4):
they are too small, hence the EAS route....

Not sure what that has anything to do with it? Cape Air flew EAS operations in and around St Louis and did so well, that many of the cities were dropped from the EAS because they could support themselves!

Quoting thrufru (Reply 7):
1 or 2 passengers per flight doesn't seem like a place that needs any air service.

I would generally agree with you, then again Montana is about as remote as it gets in the lower 48 and EAS is actually meant for cities like these, not places like Pueblo, CO that is 40 min away from COS!

If ZK bids for it, expect them close up operations somewhere else, because there is no way they can sustain operations in LAX, PHX, DEN, MSP and now BIL. Also look at ZK to possible bid these routes as Part 135 operations, as it is strongly rumored that ZK is in the process of splitting it's certificate to circumnavigate the pilot shortage and ATP requirements.
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
ridgid727
Topic Author
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:39 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 8):
Also look at ZK to possible bid these routes as Part 135 operations, as it is strongly rumored that ZK is in the process of splitting it's certificate to circumnavigate the pilot shortage and ATP requirements.

this would probably be a very wise idea for ZK, and they should look at acquiring some lower cost 8-10 passenger craft for many of their EAS cities, and place their 19- & 30 passenger craft in markets that are regular revenue markets that can sustain "commuter" traffic. ie-- something like SLC-BOI that arrives before 11:00am in the am for a SLC businessman to not have to overnight in order to meet a 9:30am appointment in BOI. or something that leaves after 5:00pm so he can do a full days business. this holds true for many SLC markets, as they are tuned to the Delta Banks, leaving regional commuters overnighting or driving. for years OO operated EMB120s in this particular market.
 
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usxguy
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:13 pm

Actually none of the Cape Air St. Louis markets have been dropped from the EAS program/subsidized air service. They have just been able to restore a few of the markets to the 10,000 enplanements for the first time since RegionsAir went out of business.
xx
 
ridgid727
Topic Author
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:42 pm

actually what airlines are there capable of bidding these cities and making it work? The list is getting smaller all the time.

There is Great Lakes, Seaport, Boutique Air, AirChoice One, PenAir, perhaps Salmon Air (they used to do EAS services for CNY & VEL) and Cape Air. I doubt OO would have any interest. Perhaps key Lime air out of Denver, or even Vision if they still operate their Do228's.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 6):
I realize they are EAS. Which is why I propose an airline who flies a 9 seat aircraft rather than even a 19 seater. The reality is, two of these cities just lost their EAS subsidy because the subsidy per pax climbed too high. Would that have happened if the routes were flown using a 9 seat aircraft? I doubt it. A 19 seater is too much aircraft and costs too much to operate to carry 1 or 2 passengers per flight. Which is why I think Cape Air would be the best airline to fill the service.

These markets are not all the same size. Lewistown didn't have the traffic to survive. Wolf Point and probably Sidney can support a larger aircraft.

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 11):
Perhaps key Lime air out of Denver, or even Vision if they still operate their Do228's.

Where these routes are operated from makes a lot of difference. Traffic to these markets is almost exclusively intra-state so they won't work from a place like DEN or SLC. BIL is the economic capital of Montana and that is why it's the hub for the flights. Even the lack of beyond connectivity makes for a very small effect on traffic.

Wolf Point and especially Sidney now see a lot of oil traffic, and it would be cool to see some kind of continuing air service that covered the oil markets, hinging on ISN with endpoints at BIL and maybe MOT on the other end.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: Silver Airways Wont Re-bid Montana

Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:21 am

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 5):
Would the 402 really be a suitable airplane for year round Montana service? Between weather and mountains I would think a pressurized turbine would almost be a prerequisite.

When Big Sky started upo they had 402s, then Jetstreams, them Metroliners, and finally Beech 1900s.

Maybe Joe's Airways with Cessna 172s will bid lol.

I doubt ZK will bid, they seem to be too thinly spread as it is. But they could close ISN and DIK and switch out Brasilia's with 1900s to have avail a/c. I can't see ISN or DIK sticking around with UA/DL serving both.

And let's not leave out Soverign Air. The one that always seems to bid with zero chance of ever winning.....
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?

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