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QF175
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Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:29 am

G'day and welcome to the Australian Aviation Thread # 75. In the previous thread, the following points were discussed/raised:

* QantasLink announces extra flights from Brisbane to Roma, Bundaberg and Longreach
* Skytrans sells 3 aircraft and cuts 20 staff
* Jetstar announces its 787 config - 21J and 314Y
* Impact of Emirates and Qantas partnership and slowing in Skywards growth in Australia
* Air New Zealand increases its stake in Virgin Australia
* Images of Jetstar's first 787
* Etihad reveals it will likely fly A380s to Sydney and Melbourne
* Etihad's stake in Virgin Australia and various other airlines
* Virgin Australia to go all A330s on Sydney-Perth weekday services from October 2013
* Qantas A330 VH-EBS 'Airbus title' location in a strange position
* Brisbane Airport 28 May fog diversions from Sydney
* Regional airlines leaving passengers behind due larger size of passengers
* China Southern Australia product offering
* A380 gate at Perth Airport delayed to March 2014
* Air Canada and possibility of services to Brisbane
* Air New Zealand commences its second season of Maroochydore-Auckland flights
* Aeropelican ceased to exist with effect 22 June 2013
* Virgin Australia expresses interest in expanding into Asia
* According to a SMH article, China Southern eyed grabbing a 10-15% stake in Qantas earlier this year
* Qantas launches its new Frequent Flyer 'Curiosity' advert
* Jetstar confirms it will launch Perth-Lombok (Indonesia) flights from September
* Emirates South East Asia to Australia flights
* Virgin Australia and Brisbane Airport announce major terminal upgrades and new runway agreement
* Virgin Australia to launch new flights from Melbourne to Hamilton Island from 15 August
* Flights to Bankstown and secondary airports in Brisbane and Melbourne
* QF to operate extra weekly flight to Santiago from 20DEC13 to 10JAN14
* Air New Zealand operates 747s to Brisbane
* Delays at Brisbane Airport improving slightly, but show no sign of abaiting
* Etihad receives FIRB approval to increase stake in Virgin Australia
* Airline route deregulation in Western Australia
* Air India set to commence Sydney & Melbourne services from Delhi later in August (787s)

Australian Aviation Thread # 74
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:57 am

Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 182):
I think Ryanair is misunderstood in this discussion.
Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 186):
I will make another point about misconceptions concerning Ryanair and the slightly more 'civilised' easyJet, which is that they are not bottom feeders any more.

I'm still confused as to what the "misunderstandings" - or "misconceptions" - of Ryanair are, at least in this discussion.

I didn't include Ryanair among the bottom feeders, for example. I've been flying them since 1992 and - I believe - they are in the other LCC category of having created their own demand.

It is no surprise to me that MOL so frequently cites Southwest as his model, and while Southwest, like Ryanair, did do some bottom feeding at the start, it also proved the essential of the model - that low fares can seriously stimulate demand. Southwest created its own market and while some were certainly poached from legacies it was, in many ways, a new market - the potential but disenfranchised flier, the underlying target of (US) deregulation.

The paradox is that it didn't work so well when the legacies tried it - all the airlines within airlines, few of which lasted.

Which raises the apparent exception of Jetstar, and it may be that they were extraordinarily smart to make such a complete branding separation.

I would not class either Jetblue or Allegiant as bottom feeders, but it is certainly true of Spirit, at least now if not originally, and perhaps one of the of the problems with several of the failed LCC's was they they did not appreciate this difference.

I think that Tiger (Australia) was/is bottom feeding, which is really my point that we haven't had a genuine - demand creating - LCC in Australia. I can't include Virgin Blue because Fate dealt it one of the luckiest hands hands I can imagine with the collapse of Ansett, and we returned to the duopoly.

Luck, of course, cannot be underestimated, or that other ephemeral, timing - how lucky was it for Ryanair that MOL and European (residential) deregulation collided?

I also accept that several of the foreign LCC's benefitted from missteps by the legacies, but curiously, most of the successful, established LCC's have been created or led to success by a visionary making his run - Kelleher, O'Leary, Neeleman and especially, Gallagher at Allegiant who went one better than all of them and used his own money.

I don't exclude Haji-Ioannou from the pack, either, but, like Neeleman, while the founding vision was splendid the follow through was dodgy. I don't know where Fernandez fits into this yet.

And I think Australia has not seen that yet, the genuine, demand creating LCC led by a visionary, and the shake-up it might bring.

mariner

[Edited 2013-07-01 04:16:44]
aeternum nauta
 
QF175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:32 am

VIRGIN AUSTRALIA - PETS

Virgin Australia today announced a new offering for its Velocity Frequent Flyer program - the ability for passengers to earn points when travelling with their pets (Cat or Dog) on Virgin Australia domestic flights. The airline will offer a minimum of 300 points for each flown sector, with a greater number of points on offer for those Velocity members with Silver, Gold or Platinum status.

Refer to the dedicated Velocity page by clicking this link.



Image source - Virgin Australia


VIRGIN AUSTRALIA - GLOBAL WALLET

Virgin Australia looks to be on the verge of launching its Global Wallet travel money card. A new dedicated page within the Velocity website has appeared - click here to view. The website has a link to an area to activate the new card, join Velocity Frequent Flyer or login to the Global Wallet Account Centre. A PDS was recently issued and Velocity has setup a dedicated FAQ page with 92 questions and answers regarding the new Global Wallet product.


BRINDBAELLA AIRLINES

Brindabella Airlines and Qantas today announced a new codeshare agreement to commence 1 August 2013, which will see Brindabella Airlines flights sold via Qantas.com and the QF flight number placed on Brindabella's services from Sydney - Moree / Newcastle / Orange (OAG codeshare to start 01SEP13) and Brisbane - Tamworth / Coffs Harbour.

View the Brindabella Airlines media release here.


EVA AIR

EVA Air today loaded an additional weekly Taipei-Brisbane flight, for the period 12DEC13 to 10JAN14 (source Airlineroute). The additional weekly flight is to operate ex-Taipei on Thursdays, bringing the total number of weekly services on the route to 3.

In a recent interview with AusBT, the airline's president Austin Cheng recently went on the record of saying:

- The airline has no plans for Sydney flights as it lacks capacity to operate such flights
- Brisbane is the focus in terms of Australian flights and this destination would be increased to daily before a new service to Sydney or Melbourne would be started
- The airline has no plans to commence a codeshare agreement with Virgin Australia after recently ceasing an agreement it had with Qantas
- The airline is focussed on growth in mainland China and Japan

View the AusBT article via this link

IMO, the chances of Brisbane going daily are slim / next to none, therefore further expansion in Australia is very unlikely (based on Mr. Cheng's comments above) at least in the immediate future.


QANTAS - GOLD COAST

Qantas mulls more Gold Coast flights

Source - AusBT

Quote:
Qantas is considering boosting the number of flights to the Gold Coast as the airline approaches the one-year anniversary of its return to the region.

"We are very happy with the first nine months" said Lyell Strambi, CEO of Qantas Domestic, ahead of a full Qantas board meeting to be held at the Gold Coast this week to discuss overall strategy for the airline.

Continues...


TOWNSVILLE - PNG FLIGHTS?

PNG PM wants Townsville-Port Moresby flights to take off

Source - ABC News

Quote:
The Prime Minister of Papua New Guinea says he plans to re-establish direct flights between Townsville and Port Moresby by the end of the year.

It was Peter O'Neill's first visit to Townsville.

During the weekend, he met the chamber of commerce, the Mayor and the State Government.

He says he wants to see more north Queensland businesses expanding into his region.

Continues...


JETGO AUSTRALIA

The operator of ERJ-135s has reportedly applied for an RPT AOC with the expectation it will launch RPT services from either Sydney or Brisbane, or both. Previous media articles have suggested the airline has had discussions with the local councils of Orange, Dubbo and Cloncurry about the possibility of commencing services in/out of these towns.

With Brindabella Airlines now flying to Orange and competing with the incumbent (REX), one would expect that the chances of another carrier entering this already small market are slim.


BRISBANE AIRPORT

The airport expects to record impressive numbers to round out FY13 with a busy June period featuring school holidays and important sorting and cultural events. International growth was 7% ahead in June 2013 (year on year), with the China, India, France and Taiwan markets experiencing double digit growth.

Brisbane Airport media release


MELBOURNE AIRPORT

The airport experienced 9% growth in International passengers for May 2013 (compared to the same month last year), with 542,297 passengers. China continues to be the key driver in overall growth.

Melbourne Airport media release.


SAMOA AIR

Samoa Air’s pay-by-weight scheme to go international

Source - Radio News NZ

Quote:
The chief executive of Samoa Air says the company is planning to offer flights to Australia, New Zealand and the United States within the next six to 12 months.

The airline, which flies within Samoa and to neighbouring American Samoa, introduced a pay-by-weight scheme in April, which Chris Langton says is working better all the time.

Continues...

Interesting to see flights to Australia are planned, which of course will be in competition with Virgin Samoa. You'd expect to see Sydney and Brisbane as the lead contenders for such a flight, but you wonder with what aircraft? 737s leased from another company such as Our Airline perhaps?
 
SYDAIRPORTS
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:18 pm

flew TT SYD/BNE recently & everything was fine & very similar to JQ, VA & QF except, the boarding process at SYD.

Had passengers seated in rows 16-30 entering via front door & v.v. people in rows 1-15 entering via back door.

Of course it was kaos with passengers with large hand luggage trying to push past each other.

Surely a better way of boarding would be for aero-care who handle TT at SYD, to board by rows such as row 15 & 16 first (15 thru front door & 16 thrrough back door) & so on.
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:23 pm

Here she is 1st B787 LN123 ZA215 VH-VKA for QANTAS low-cost JQ

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1960/yiah.jpg

EK8413
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ben175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:08 pm

Flying JQ from MEL to HNL on Friday afternoon. I've heard that the Business class seats on EBQ and EBR are slightly different to the standard StarClass Millennium seats? I'm really hoping I get one of the newer birds destined for QF.
 
BenSandilands
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:01 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
I can't include Virgin Blue because Fate dealt it one of the luckiest hands hands I can imagine with the collapse of Ansett, and we returned to the duopoly.

As a reporter who was covering the industry as a contributor to the Australian Financial Review at the time I am always astonished at the persistence of this view.

Shortly after Ansett went into administration following its casting off by Air New Zealand Virgin Blue had seven 737s. In the immediate aftermath of the collapse Qantas redirected 10 widebodies to full time domestic deployment and engaged others in its international fleet to augment in part domestic services. These included the two former Air Canada 767-300s that Ansett acquired after the 767 grounding of the previous April which Qantas took over following negotiations with the administrator.

Throughout 2002 Qantas was claiming that 29 international aircraft had variously been fully or partially redeployed to deal with domestic demand.

It experienced the simultaneous collapse of its international business post 9/11 and the opportunity to replace that business with displaced Ansett customers. Dixon said at the time that Qantas didn't even notice that Virgin Blue was still around until later in 2002 when it noticed that it was not only still there, but was adding 16 737s in calendar year 2002 with many of them flown by 1989 strike black listed pilots given the opportunity by Virgin to return to Australia.

This did set off the alarm bells in Qantas which set up Project Saviour later in 2002 to ultiise the low cost Impulse unit it had purchased late in April 2001 which was announced as a separate Qantas low cost brand in August 2003 and named Jetstar in December 2003 and took off in June 2004.

Qantas also took over a large number of the 737-800 orders its commercial partner American Airlines could not proceed with in the aftermath of 9/11 at bulk order prices well below those initially being paid by Virgin Blue in some outright purchases as well as its prolific use of discount leases, most of which were churned by them by the middle of 2005.

Virgin Blue had to fight harder than ever to survive after Ansett collapsed, but it fought hard, and done good.

[Edited 2013-07-01 15:04:44]
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:17 pm

Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 6):
Virgin Blue had to fight harder than ever to survive after Ansett collapsed, but it fought hard, and done good.

It may have and nothing I say detracts from that.

But - I suggest - it would have had to fight a darn sight harder if Ansett had been in good shape and had survived.

If you see it differently, that there was room for three carriers all chasing essentially the same domestic market, then I can only, however respectfully, disagree.

The Qantas market share after the Ansett collapse always seemed to me to be unrealistic and probably unsustainable - as it proved to be.

mariner

[Edited 2013-07-01 15:27:28]
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:26 pm

You're right Ben. QF was the one that was handed the golden chalice on AN's collapse. It inherited the entire corporate market as well as being insulated from the collapse in international travel post 9/11 by its sudden boom in domestic business.

DJ did have a market to grow into but was not in the position to absorb the available business at the time of AN's collapse.

DJ's advantage came nearly a year later post the collapse of TESNA where it could do reasonable deals on terminal space and move out of the sheds it was previously using in airports like MEL, SYD and OOL. Even then, it needed the support of the ACCC to fend off QF, who was interested in taking most of the available gates for itself.
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zkokq
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:54 pm

VH-VPD flew back to SYD last night as VOZ2.

I assume they (leasor and insurance company) finally decided who would pick up the tab on the repair bill to enable it to be fixed.
 
eaglefarm4
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:36 pm

Fiji Airways flew it's 744 DQ-FJL into BNE last evening .

Thanks QF 175 for the update .


I also agree Ben, and Tullamarine.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:53 pm

Two points from the last thread:

1) Sorry about the number of VA QLD flights, I'd forgotten about Emerald and legitimately had no idea they flew to Bundaberg. CNS-WEI? Is that a joke?!? I'm guessing they got some sort of subsidy?

2) I agree with Mariner about the potential for a ULCC in Australia and how TT doesn't even come close to this model (as he says TT is run as a stripped down legacy rather than a bona fide ULCC). As I'm late to the party I wont say any more on this issue as I've already missed that discussion.

Quoting QF175 (Reply 2):
Brindabella Airlines and Qantas today announced a new codeshare agreement to commence 1 August 2013, which will see Brindabella Airlines flights sold via Qantas.com and the QF flight number placed on Brindabella's services from Sydney - Moree / Newcastle / Orange (OAG codeshare to start 01SEP13) and Brisbane - Tamworth / Coffs Harbour.

That's fantastic news, I'm really glad to hear this.

Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 6):
Dixon said at the time that Qantas didn't even notice that Virgin Blue was still around until later in 2002 when it noticed that it was not only still there, but was adding 16 737s in calendar year 2002

Precisely. When did DJ move to T2? I know that at the time of the collapse they were still in the shed, and stayed there for a quite a long time afterwards.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 8):
QF was the one that was handed the golden chalice on AN's collapse. It inherited the entire corporate market as well as being insulated from the collapse in international travel post 9/11

QF have had a golden decade on the back on AN. Pause for a moment and consider where QF would be now without the collapse. As we all know International is a black hole, but the airline has been raking in the profits due to its Domestic business. Had QF not had a stranglehold on the corporate market for over 10 years then Domestic wouldn't be anywhere near as strong as it is today, which would leave one stinking mess of an airline!
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:03 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 9):

VH-VPD flew back to SYD last night as VOZ2.

I assume they (leasor and insurance company) finally decided who would pick up the tab on the repair bill to enable it to be fixed.

Sorry I missed this one. What happened to VH-VPD?

EK8413
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zkokq
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:07 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 12):

She went tech in LAX for a few days. Most of the VOZ7/8 sectors ran 12+ hours late over last week to compensate an aircraft missing.
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:27 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11):
CNS-WEI? Is that a joke?!?

That's what I thought too, but it's straight from the horse's mouth: http://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en...2013/VA_DEREGULATION_CAIRNS_WEIPA/ It would also fit with the schedules for the TSV-CNS-TSV which are currently the only ATR ops into CNS.

Also, as I mentioned in the previous thread, they've mentioned RMA a few times as well in similar terms (if/when it's deregulated they intend to compete with QF).

[Edited 2013-07-01 19:29:41]
 
SYDAIRPORTS
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:01 am

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 10):
Fiji Airways flew it's 744 DQ-FJL into BNE last evening .

must have ben a problem with one of the new A332's which was scheduled
 
flylonghaul
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:48 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 4):
Here she is 1st B787 LN123 ZA215 VH-VKA for QANTAS low-cost JQ

Can't wait for her to enter service so I can catch a ride!!  
Flying for Pleasure
 
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a36001
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:48 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 4):

woohoo not long to go now! getting excited!!!! cannot wait to fly on these beauties!!       
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:09 pm

Tiger Airways to rebrand later today as tigerair

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...ipes-becomes-tigerair-goes-cuddly/

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/a...erair/story-e6frfq80-1226673504751

Both articles mention the australian operation rebranding, any news if the Singapore operation will rebrand also?
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zkokq
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:31 pm

Quoting pugsley (Reply 18):
any news if the Singapore operation will rebrand also

I am pretty sure this only relates to Tiger Airways Australia, not Tiger Airways Holdings based in Singapore.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:00 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 19):
I am pretty sure this only relates to Tiger Airways Australia, not Tiger Airways Holdings based in Singapore.

Negative, it's the whole group
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:37 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 13):

Quoting EK413 (Reply 12):

She went tech in LAX for a few days. Most of the VOZ7/8 sectors ran 12 hours late over last week to compensate an aircraft missing.

Thank you. Was the aircraft involved in another blast fence incident? I'm surprised NZ didn't pickup the slack opposed to running the sectors 12 hours behind schedule.

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 16):
Quoting A36001 (Reply 17):

Interesting though how the entire aircraft is white & the rudder ain't partially painted  

EK8413
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qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:27 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 21):
Interesting though how the entire aircraft is white & the rudder ain't partially painted

That's the primer colour that all 787s are painted in before they get their final liveries. The rudder on JQ planes is metallic, so that might be why they've just done the grey undercoat (it's definitely a different colour to the rest of the tail).

What's grabbing me though is the paint on the cowling. Usually the front section has its white finish already applied when it is fitted, while the rear section gets painted along with the rest of the aircraft. Here, the front section appears to be in the same primer as the fuselage, while the rear section looks like it's got a metallic silver finish.

I don't want to get my hopes up, but silver engines on these planes would be amazing (and BA's blue engines show that it can certainly be done).

  
 
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eta unknown
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:30 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 21):
I'm surprised NZ didn't pickup the slack opposed to running the sectors 12 hours behind schedule.

NZ are full LAX-AKL-LAX with US summer school holidays.
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:58 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 22):
That's the primer colour that all 787s are painted in before they get their final liveries. The rudder on JQ planes is metallic, so that might be why they've just done the grey undercoat (it's definitely a different colour to the rest of the tail).

Your right I just had a 2nd look.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 22):
What's grabbing me though is the paint on the cowling. Usually the front section has its white finish already applied when it is fitted, while the rear section gets painted along with the rest of the aircraft. Here, the front section appears to be in the same primer as the fuselage, while the rear section looks like it's got a metallic silver finish.

If BA can do it so can we 


EK8413
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QF175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:04 am

MALAYSIA AIRLINES

According to Airlineroute, Malaysia Airlines will recommence flights to Darwin from 01NOV13. The airline will offer 5 services a week to Kuala Lumpur with 737-800s. The schedule sees an overnight flight to DRW with the flight back to KL departing at 0600.

Been a good year for Darwin! First we had Philippine Airlines commence flights to Manila, Air Asia resumed flights to Denpasar/Bali this week and now Malaysia Airlines are returning from November.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:06 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
But - I suggest - it would have had to fight a darn sight harder if Ansett had been in good shape and had survived.

I agree mariner, it was well documented that VB were on their last legs with 2 weeks of cash remaining at the time of Ansett's collapse and it was only the collapse of the once great airline, that saved Virgin. I still maintain that Australia is the poorer for having lost Ansett! Poor management/shareholders and biased government decisions all helped to permanently ground an Australian icon.

BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
TN486
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:27 pm

There has been a lot spoken, written about, and conjectured, relative to the collapse of Ansett. It also is a very emotive issue with all of us who love and value the Australian airline scene, past, current, and future. Having said that, I would ask you all to revisit the decision to deregulate the industry, and the days of Sir Peter Abeles at the helm,etc. The days of the "Noahs Ark" fleet, union agreements, 767's with an FE (3 man cockpit) etc etc etc. If you reflect on all those matters, and then read two books - "Ansett, The Collapse" written by Geoff Easdown and Peter Wilms, and "Ansett, The story of the rise and fall of Ansett 1936-2002" written by Stuart Wilson, I am sure you will then be able to put it all into context. As for who benefited after the collapse, then just look at the airline scene today, and I am sure you will, if you look at it objectively and without emotion, come up with the answers.
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BenSandilands
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:42 pm

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 26):
I agree mariner, it was well documented that VB were on their last legs with 2 weeks of cash remaining at the time of Ansett's collapse and it was only the collapse of the once great airline, that saved Virgin. I still maintain that Australia is the poorer for having lost Ansett! Poor management/shareholders and biased government decisions all helped to permanently ground an Australian icon.

It was not documented at all. Nor is that claim compatible with the financial reports lodged by the airline.

One of the objectives of good reporting is to examine popular mythology, and if it is found to be without foundation to dismiss such unsubstantiated claims.

Can I be clear about why Ansett failed.

It failed, sadly, because of a legacy of mismanagement compounded by the poor management that then ensued under Air New Zealand. I don't have time to stop doing other things today to be a librarian, but I would urged those who think there is any substance in the claim that Virgin Blue had two weeks cash remaining in September 2001 should first establish just what is meant by two weeks cash. And then tell us who said this? The airline? (No). Those who peddle loose claims with no evidence to back them up. (Yes).

Does two weeks cash means that if the airline didn't have any customers for two weeks and paid its fixed costs, various rents, leases, wages and so forth, it would have no cash left?

Does it mean that as well as no cash left it would have no drawable finance?

These are fundamental questions, that responsible financial newspaper like the Australian Financial Review examined and repeatedly dismissed by a range of criterions just too inconvenient for the mythologising that was was going on at the time in the less clinical media.

Let me pose the question again. What is meant by two week's cash? And where is the evidence in the financial statements lodged by Virgin Blue? The onus for producing the evidence is on those who made the claims. At the time they ran away from producing any evidence to back up their baseless but potentially damaging claims.
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:55 pm

Quoting TN486 (Reply 27):
There has been a lot spoken, written about, and conjectured, relative to the collapse of Ansett.

I certainly don't intend to add to that - as we see, the issue is still viscerally subjective and why Ansett collapsed has nothing to do with my point.

I will say that for a period of time - the mid eighties - service and comfort levels on Ansett were extraordinary, at least on the Golden Triangle, and the airline was perhaps not exaggerating when it called itself "one of the world's great airlines" at least at that time.

It was achieved without get regard to the balance sheet, though, and ultimately the only person who came out of the whole mess smiling was Rupert Murdoch (wouldn't ya' know?).

My point is simply this - if Ansett had stayed around, Virgin Blue's battle would have been exponentially tougher than it was.

mariner
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BenSandilands
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:56 pm

Mariner's point about how much more difficult life would have been for Virgin Blue had Ansett survived is correct.

Ansett was the Royal Barge when it came to frequent flyers. It was made clear at the time that Eddington was appointed to unload Murdoch's holding in the airline, that is prepare it for sale, and achieve a sale. Even before Virgin Blue came along the 'preparing for sale' part of the brief was beginning to show up in a winding back of the remarkable quality levels of the Ansett product, but that is a subjective view that a number of industry observers, not just myself, came to.

However there was no sense of alarm. We all wrote it off as another indulgence of the 1980s being quietly rolled back in the late 90s. Or less quietly if you worked for Ansett International, where that amazing enterprise copped it from all directions, from within and from Qantas, which launched a major charm offensive plus corporate discounts to throttle back the revenue loss to Ansett International on Hong Kong and Japan routes, where Ansett had and used to some effect capacity to Kansai that it couldn't access to Narita.

Virgin changed all that domestically to an extent, but the most damaging thing done to Ansett was the Qantas adoption of a better IT platform that let it manage yields and 'chase' Ansett around the clock on the GDS which revealed Ansett's weakness at yield management.

Dixon had identified Ansett's weaknesses as yield management and its loyalty program in 1999, as he was more than happy to detail in interviews, and his initatives in both areas hit Ansett early in 2000 just as the underestimated impacts of Impulse and Virgin Blue caused a rather ruinous in the longer term fare war four way on some vital sectors, especially Sydney-Melbourne.

An important change that Impulse and Virgin brought to Australia was the pursuit of growth driven by cheaper fares. The prevailing attitude in Ansett and Qantas had been that growth could only come from taking customers off each other, not by creating new sources of demand. Under Strong and Dixon what had been a comfortable truce under the duopoly gradually became an insecure truce, and that sense of insecurity was increasingly obvious in Ansett, which didn't know how to respond to a more aggressively run Qantas.

My own view at the time was that the new 'realities' in competition on domestic Australian routes was going to severely compromise Ansett over the short to medium term, but that most of the damage was in the Ansett-Qantas contests, compared to the much smaller capacity being flown at the time by Impulse, up to end April 2001, and Virgin Blue.

[Edited 2013-07-03 16:57:58]

[Edited 2013-07-03 17:00:41]
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:00 am

Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 30):
Ansett was the Royal Barge when it came to frequent flyers.

With that I agree.

I flew a very great deal in the eighties, both Ansett and TAA/Australian, and always up the front, as directors do.

I have vivid memories of several of my Ansett flights. Push me into a corner and I could even remember some of the menus - a lunch of smoked trout and celeriac salad served between SYD and MEL that was so gorgeous I wrote for the recipe.

My memories of TAA/Australian are pleasant enough but don't stand out to anything like the same degree, except one. We were delayed at CNS and when we were airborne the Captain came on and said:

"Sorry for the delay, folks, but the old girl is going flat chat now and we should make up some time."

I wrote that in my diary, I still have it, because I loved the sweet idea of a brand new A300 being called "the old girl."

 

mariner
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AJ
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:05 am

Quoting QF175 (Reply 25):
Been a good year for Darwin! First we had Philippine Airlines commence flights to Manila, Air Asia resumed flights to Denpasar/Bali this week and now Malaysia Airlines are returning from November.

Hopefully the terminal renovations have made space for another operator! There has been much excitement here as Hungry Jacks has opened in the terminal.
 
QF175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:41 pm

JETSTAR

According to the Qantas Industry Sales website, Jetstar will cease operating Gold Coast - Perth flights with effect 27 October 2013. The service currently runs 5-6 weekly and is operated by A320s - refer to the Qantas Industry Sales website for further information

THAI AIRWAYS

Airlineroute is reporting that Thai Airways will introduce its new 2 Class 777-300ERs on its Brisbane-Bangkok route from February 2014. The new aircraft offer 42 Royal Silk Business Class seats and 306 seats in Economy Class. The aircraft feature Thai's new Business, Economy, IFE product (the same product as that found on the A380) and replace the existing, much older 777-300s currently plying the route that offer the older generation lie-flat Business Class seats
 
BAeRJ100
Posts: 442
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:22 pm

PER has had some lovely birds lately, we got the 748F just a couple weeks ago, and now we've got our 4th A380. Emirates A6-EEH operating EK406 to MEL diverted due to medical emergency, landing around 0130. This is the 3rd EK A380 (the only other one being QF's first on its tour several years ago) to visit PER. If only the new facilities were completed on time, we wouldn't have to rely on these kinds of circumstances to see the whale!
B737/738/739/744ER/752/753/763/77L/77W/788/789
A223/320/321/332/333/346/359/388
MD82/MD88/717/F100/RJ85/RJ100/146-100/200/300
E175/190/CRJ700/900
 
ben175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:02 pm

Quoting QF175 (Reply 33):
JETSTAR

According to the Qantas Industry Sales website, Jetstar will cease operating Gold Coast - Perth flights with effect 27 October 2013. The service currently runs 5-6 weekly and is operated by A320s - refer to the Qantas Industry Sales website for further information

What!? This is a huge shame, I have family in the GC so it was a quick, easy way to visit. Loads always seemed good? First CNS, and now OOL...
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:22 am

Hope someone is able to answer my question. I was at BNE earlier in the week and noticed EK435 B77W BNE-DXB was being catered from all 4 doors on the starboard side. I know with each aircraft type the procedure changes but from memory in SYD forward galleys are serviced on the starboard side whilst mid rear & aft galley from the port side. I've also noticed whilst in FRA a B744 forward, mid and aft galley was being catered from the starboard side whilst in Australia the aft is catered from the port side.

Isn't there a standard operating procedure?


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First images of JQ Hong Kong are in the database


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Any idea why this AR A342 was sitting around in SYD for well over a week?


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EK8413

[Edited 2013-07-05 23:25:41]
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:34 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 36):

First images of JQ Hong Kong are in the database

Are they going with white as the new livery or just for JQ HK?
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:00 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 37):
Are they going with white as the new livery or just for JQ HK?

It looks like a matte grey-beige colour, hopefully not to be used going forward. The engine is still a glossy silver colour so could this be a promotional livery for JQ HK's debut
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:27 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 37):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 36):

First images of JQ Hong Kong are in the database

Are they going with white as the new livery or just for JQ HK?

I certainly hope not unless the white scheme was applied due to the implications currently being faced by JQ Hong Kong which to date hasn't been given the green light. Probably the aircraft will be deployed with JQ Vietnam whilst they await approval?

EK8413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:58 am

Quoting QF175 (Reply 33):
According to the Qantas Industry Sales website, Jetstar will cease operating Gold Coast - Perth flights with effect 27 October 2013. The service currently runs 5-6 weekly and is operated by A320s - refer to the Qantas Industry Sales website for further information
Quoting ben175 (Reply 35):
What!? This is a huge shame, I have family in the GC so it was a quick, easy way to visit. Loads always seemed good? First CNS, and now OOL...

Promotional fares were as low as $129... it is hardly surprising that the route is being cut. Massive shame but cant say I am surprised.
 
SYDAIRPORTS
Posts: 143
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:06 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 40):
Promotional fares were as low as $129... it is hardly surprising that the route is being cut. Massive shame but cant say I am surprised.

You'd think OOL/PER would suit some people living on south side of Brisbane.

Why do some flights work out of OOL while others don't ?

eg. OOL/KUL, OOL/SIN, OOL/JAPAN, OOL/NEW ZEALAND all seem to work,

FJ tried OOL/NAN with perfect connection onto LAX a few years back, but it was short lived (maybe due to GFC).
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:31 am

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 41):
You'd think OOL/PER would suit some people living on south side of Brisbane.

Why do some flights work out of OOL while others don't ?

eg. OOL/KUL, OOL/SIN, OOL/JAPAN, OOL/NEW ZEALAND all seem to work,

FJ tried OOL/NAN with perfect connection onto LAX a few years back, but it was short lived (maybe due to GFC).

OOL-KUL/SIN are substitutes for OOL/KUL-BNE. Meanwhile OOL-AKL/CHC are primarily inbound traffic.

OOL-NRT/KIX are a bit tricky. The AU-Japan traffic has shrunk since the late 90's but these have remained. Perhaps because they have a direct same plane connection to SYD, and this helps the loads?

OOL-PER would suffer from the abundance of cheap flights PER-DPS/SIN/CGK/KUL. Why would JQ pax want to fly across the country for 5 hours to pay sky high prices once they get there? DPS/CGK/KUL are far cheaper than OOL (SIN less so).
 
RickNRoll
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:21 am

It looks like the guys down at Melbourne Airport were getting bored. Nothing much going on, their Christman bonuses were were on their mind. So they increased the car parking fees again. I mean, why not? Is there any easier way to make a dollar in Melbourne?
 
IndianicWorld
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:56 am

Quoting ricknroll (Reply 43):
So they increased the car parking fees again. I mean, why not? Is there any easier way to make a dollar in Melbourne?

Unfortunately just about all airports in this country can do what they like.

Atleast MEL has an alternative at AVV but given its lack of demand people must still want to fly from Tullamarine, no matter the parking cost.
 
IndianicWorld
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:59 am

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 42):
OOL-PER would suffer from the abundance of cheap flights PER-DPS/SIN/CGK/KUL. Why would JQ pax want to fly across the country for 5 hours to pay sky high prices once they get there? DPS/CGK/KUL are far cheaper than OOL (SIN less so).

True, but also add in that its a long, thin flight where yields would likely struggle at the best of times, and it gets even less of a sustainable proposition.

PER losing 2 JQ destinations would be abit disappointing, but as you state the amount of LCC flights into Asia would more than make up for that loss.
 
koruman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:54 pm

OOL-PER was never about inbound tourism to the Gold Coast.

It was about the one million people living between Logan / Gold Coast / Byron / Lismore / Ballina, many of whom now work in WA. Some of them actually commute from home on the East Coast.

Problem is, it's a combination of VFR and mining-level yields, and Jetstar is a lousy vehicle for that. Compare it with Air NZ's flight from Auckland, which carries identical (mining) demographics but now has added Premium Economy and lie-flat Business Class. Both flights include an overnight sector in one direction, so comfort is significant. And Air NZ's flights are reportedly catered with more alcohol for Premium Economy and Business Class than their longer LAX sectors!

This route probably requires 35% no frills, 30% full economy, 25% Premium Economy and 10% Business class. Jetstar only addressed the lowest-yielding 35% of that market.
 
anstar
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 26):
I still maintain that Australia is the poorer for having lost Ansett!

Really? Ansett was good and has an emotional attachment for many (hello.. my handle is based on AN and the star on the tail!).... But I wouldn't say our industry is now poorer for losing them. Virgin seem to have taken most of the emotional void.... and QF have increased their products and we now have regular low fares thanks to Tiger and Jetstar.....
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:09 pm

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 42):
OOL-PER would suffer from the abundance of cheap flights PER-DPS/SIN/CGK/KUL. Why would JQ pax want to fly across the country for 5 hours to pay sky high prices once they get there?

I think all you say is probably true - you convinced me - but I'm still scratching my head a wee bit if PER-OOL doesn't work and I wondered if there are other reasons for it. So I did some - very superficial - checking.

I checked a few Jetstar fares for late August (PER-OOL) and they're cheap - about $150 one way - while PER-DPS was closer to $300 one way, at least on the days I checked. The odd thing (to me) is that Jetstar fares PER-BNE were healthier, closer to $300 (o/w again) on the same days. On a couple of the same days, I could get a fare on Qantas (PER-BNE) that was a similar (and sometimes slightly cheaper) price.

I accept that in the absence of what I consider a true LCC I may not fully understand Australian airline yield management (a mysterious art at the best of times) and I don't spend a lot of time studying it.

But it did seem - odd. So I wonder if there is more to it than meets the eye? I wondered why Perth folk would fly all that way to what is essentially an expensive beach when they have glorious beaches on their doorstep? I know I'm flying into BNE tomorrow (rather than OOL) because I went to spend a couple of days in a big city before heading down the coast (and I want to be sure I get to eat some Moreton Bay Bugs - LOL).

Going the other way - OOL-PER - I wondered - why? Some VFR, sure, and some "see Australia" traffic, but for tourists Asia may be more attractive - and certainly more exotic.

And for the tourist, once you leave PER you're in trouble. I was in Perth last winter and wanted to spend a few days in BME, but I couldn't get a fare at anything like a price I thought reasonable and Shark Bay/Monkey Mia was no cheaper. Derby, one of my favourite places in WA, was prohibitive. Oh, for a genuine LCC in WA.

So a mate and I drove to Geraldton, which is busy transforming itself into a fine, attractive city - they've spent scores of millions on the waterfront esplanade - BUT it is in desperate need of hotel rooms. The very helpful tourist office found us one - they said it was the last available in town - but is was north of $450 and it sure wasn't the Ritz-Carlton or even Hilton standard. We had a great (and fun) dinner on the esplanade, but it was not a better dinner than I could find almost anywhere else in Oz. And since it was winter it was pleasant enough, but it wasn't really beach weather - although my chum, a windsurfer, was in hog heaven.

So if I lived on the Gold Coast, why would I go to Geraldton for a holiday when I can get to Asia for not much more?

The mining boom may have been great for WA - but not for tourist development, perhaps, because who (except me) thinks of mining cities as tourist resorts? And is the downturn in mining affecting that traffic?

So finally I wondered if PER -OOL is cannibalizing PER-BNE or if Jetstar simply has a better use for the aircraft? But again - why would OOL folk go to PER?

mariner

[Edited 2013-07-08 13:38:24]
aeternum nauta
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 75

Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:58 pm

Mariner, I live less than 20 km from OOL.

And, off the top of my head, I can name eleven people who have moved to work in Perth or the WA mines in the last three years, and all are well-remunerated and return at least twice each year. I can name another three who commute via PER to the mines at Newman.

But, as I wrote, Jetstar is a terrible vehicle for them. Those with kids aged 16-25 send their kids on Jetstar, but the rest tend to arrive very well lubricated after a full-service flight.

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