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KarelXWB
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:47 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 137):
The picture of the plane on Wikipedia has 'Extended Range' painted on the rear fuselage, just aft of L4 door. So, is it a LR or ER?

Asiana Airlines doesn't have any LRs, only ERs. Check http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Asiana%20Airlines-active-b777.htm
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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xaapb
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:47 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 137):

777-200ER Asiana dosent have LR series.
Jorge Meneses
 
captainstefan
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:47 pm

Eyewitnesses saying it flipped remind me of UA 232 at SUX. It most likely did not flip; but at one point during the loss of control a wing or the empennage may have assumed an unusual attitude, leading (inexperienced?) casual observers to believe the airplane was cartwheeling. I would imagine some kind of unusual attitude occurred after losing the tail.
Long Live the Tulip!
 
FighterPilot
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:47 pm

Hopefully everyone is ok. I'm hoping that by the reports and pictures of passengers snapping pictures and taking their carry on while evacuating means that the crash wasn't as violent as it might seem. This crash reminds me of the AF 358 in YYZ that over ran the runway. All the post crash pictures look similar to each other.

Cal   
*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
 
mingocr83
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:48 pm

A380, A321, A320, A319, 757-200, 737-800WL, 737-700WL, E190
 
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RayChuang
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:48 pm

One question that needs to be asked now: was there any wind shear warnings issued by the SFO tower any time within one hour before the crash? It looks like the plane experienced a hard impact that kind of reminded me of that unfortunate impact of a FedEx MD-11 freighter at NRT some yaers ago caused by wind shear.
 
NDiesel
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:49 pm

Quoting kdhurst380 (Reply 136):
You're a news broadcaster taking information from an enthusiasts forum merely speculating on what's happened?

We're all speculating. We don't confirm it.
Delta MD-11 JFK-CDG - Upon sunrise I fell in love with aviation
 
USAIRWAYS321
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:49 pm

Can anyone link an image of the seawall impact that's being discussed? I don't have TV access right now.
 
N766UA
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:49 pm

If pax are toting their carry-ons off the airplane, I'd wager everyone made it off okay.

Looks like everything aft of the pressure bulkhead was deposited elsewhere. Any landing you can walk away from, huh? Yeah.
 
Norcal773
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:49 pm

Quoting NDiesel (Reply 108):
I work for CNN and we're watching this thread closely now. Keep the information coming should you have any.

In that case, get this presenter off the air coz she's just making it worse and making a fool of herself!

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 109):
Why does CNN's Richard Quest keep saying it is a -200 LR??

I have the right plane pictured, correct?

He's wrong and you have the right plane. Asiana doesn't operate 777LRs. There was a thread about that earlier today but now it has disappeared, they only have 772ERs.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
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KarelXWB
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:49 pm

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 140):
WHY CANT NEWS ORGANIZATIONS ACTUALLY HAVE AVIATION EXPERTS ON STAFF?

Would you hire an aviation expert for just 2 or 3 crashes a year?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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WROORD
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:50 pm

ABC News live coverage says that the plane was landing at an abnormal angle with the nose up and it hit the runway so hard that the tail broke off. No one knows if everyone onboard managed to run off before the fire, but let's hope for the best.
 
LLA001
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:50 pm

Where is the flight recorder located at 777 ? if it is near tail section that ripped off, it might be damaged beyond use?
 
Flighty
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:50 pm

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 125):
Asiana does not have any B777-200(LR)s.

Flightaware and similar systems call it an 777-200LR. However that is WRONG. My post above stating 'allegedly LR' was wrong. It is a actually a Pratt ER according to multiple sources. AFAIK that is the only Asiana 777 type.
 
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OA260
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:50 pm

Passengers : 290 Infant 1 Crew : 12 onboard according to Sky News.
 
ogre727
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:50 pm

Too early, but it does look like the london crash to me.
I am between the devil and the deep blue sea
 
GARUDAROD
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:51 pm

Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:51 pm

Quoting freeze3192 (Reply 53):
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ksfo/KSFO-Twr-Jul-06-2013-1800Z.mp3

22 minutes onwards. Wow.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
threeifbyair
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:51 pm

Quoting nicholasjet (Reply 118):
it looks like a wheel caught the sea wall at the start of the runway/stopway/clearway area.

That would be consistent with what everything else CNN is showing. I have not seen that feed in the USA.

Where is the empennage? Awful big piece that we are not seeing on the video from CNN. Seems like it was cut off by something sharp, perhaps the seawall.

If the plane catches a wheel on the seawall, would it pitch nose-up and perhaps slam the empennage down on the seawall?

Landing lights and airfield structures are supposed to be frangible after the AA MD80 crash at LIT many years ago impacted a rigid steel light structure. Don't think landing lights would do it.

This "cartwheeling" report is perhaps actually "spinning" - cartwheeling would have destroyed the plane entirely.
 
gulfstream650
Posts: 202
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:51 pm

Reassuring that the tail broke aft of the pressure dome. Fingers crossed!!!
I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe
 
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OzarkD9S
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:52 pm

Quoting kdhurst380 (Reply 136):


You're a news broadcaster taking information from an enthusiasts forum merely speculating on what's happened?

There are quite a few people on here who know their stuff. A valuable resource, not the ONLY resource.

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 140):
WHY CANT NEWS ORGANIZATIONS ACTUALLY HAVE AVIATION EXPERTS ON STAFF?

The reporting on CNN has been absolutely ridiculous. They would do much better posting a job on a.net than using the fools who have taken up position behind a camera and microphone to report on this accident.

It can be frustrating for the enthusiast who knows far more about this topic more than most people in a newsroom, but quite a few experts are just a phone call away. Should CNN have a resident Aviation Expert on staff for these thankfully rare occasions?
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
oc2dc
Posts: 469
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:52 pm

I'm listening to San Francisco FD/EMS , they are staring a water search via boat and helicopter. I'm not sure if they are looking for additional victims or parts of the plane for an investigation...
I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
 
MKEdude
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:53 pm

So far no mention on the website, no contact info for families. According to OZ nothing unusual has occurred.

Someone over there needs to get their act together!

http://us.flyasiana.com/Global/US/en/index
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3299
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 140):
WHY CANT NEWS ORGANIZATIONS ACTUALLY HAVE AVIATION EXPERTS ON STAFF?

It's Saturday, I doubt they have experts sitting around everyday just in the rare case a plane crashes.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 156):
was there any wind shear warnings issued by the SFO tower any time within one hour before the crash?

I couldn't find anything to say that there was any wind shear. The METAR had light winds at the time of the report and winds all the way up to FL390 look pretty low.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
RDUDDJI
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 161):
Would you hire an aviation expert for just 2 or 3 crashes a year?

That's why you pay a retainer and have someone on call. However, as much as American's love to complain about flying, you probably could justify a position...  
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
illinicmi
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:21 pm

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 163):
Where is the flight recorder located at 777 ? if it is near tail section that ripped off, it might be damaged beyond use?

Not sure exactly, but generally towards the tail. Anything is possible, but I'm guessing this impact is "minor" compared to what it is designed to survive.
 
Thomas_Jaeger
Posts: 2223
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 164):

Flightaware and similar systems call it an 777-200LR. However that is WRONG. My post above stating 'allegedly LR' was wrong. It is a actually a Pratt ER according to multiple sources. AFAIK that is the only Asiana 777 type.

Yes, PW4090 according to our database.
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
rwy04lga
Posts: 1976
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:54 pm

Quoting airbusa346 (Reply 141):
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 137):

ER
Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 143):
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 137):
So, is it a LR or ER?

(ER).

I didn't think they had LR's, but CNN kept saying LR. I was perplexed.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
SeeTheWorld
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:54 pm

Definitely looks like it landed short and hit the rocks ....
 
flightsimer
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:54 pm

I agree Karel. No way that flipped having the wings and everything in such good condition, relatively speaking.

It looks like the photos being shown and obviously the live feed is all after fire. The initial pictures I have seen were all no fire damage, which to me says more than likely all were able to get off prior to the fire as long as they were not injured or killed during the accident itself.

They showed a live feed of the banks just prior to the runway and there is debris on it and in the water. My WAG is that it landed short, hit the embankment and ripped the tail of then skidded further down the runway to its present location.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:54 pm

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 140):

WHY CANT NEWS ORGANIZATIONS ACTUALLY HAVE AVIATION EXPERTS ON STAFF?

The reporting on CNN has been absolutely ridiculous. They would do much better posting a job on a.net than using the fools who have taken up position behind a camera and microphone to report on this accident.

I bet CNN wishes that they wouldn't have disbanded their science and technology unit, as Miles O'Brien was their go-to guy for events like this and he was let go back in 2008. He covered a number of plane crashes for them over the years and even if he couldn't be in the studio, he would report via phone.
 
aerobalance
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:35 am

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:54 pm

You're light, favorable winds and wx, a long runway in front of you, you land short. Why? What the hell.
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
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KarelXWB
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:54 pm

"At this time, we have no fatalities, one critical already airlifted and at San Fran General."

http://twitter.com/SoCalEMSFire/status/353599674097205249
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
WNwatcher
Posts: 206
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:54 pm

Anyone else notice that Number 1 engine isn't visible on any shots?
B1900, C172, B733, B734, B735, B737, B738, B752, B762, B763, B772
H155, H135
 
snowjob
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:06 pm

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:54 pm

I love (to the point of tears) how CNN puts text up "Witness: Wing Broke off" while right above we're looking at live video of the wreckage with both wings attached.
 
PZ
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:14 am

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:55 pm



Looks like one of the main landing gears hit the wall...

[Edited 2013-07-06 12:56:51]
 
trnswrld
Posts: 1369
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 2:19 am

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:55 pm

Holy crap that thing missed the runway short. Hope everyone is ok so far that fuselage looks intact besides from the fire.
 
avek00
Posts: 3227
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:55 pm

I won't dare begin to speculate on what happened in San Francisco today, but I can't help but think back to July 1st, when my United flight (and many others) were delayed while SFO installed/tested new runway approach equipment.
Live life to the fullest.
 
cuban8
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:17 pm

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:55 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 145):
Anyone else think he got slow and just had an abnormal sink rate. It looks like the debris field starts way short of the normal touchdown zone. Hits the tail and rips it off?
Pat

Maybe we shouldn't take fast conclusions as to what happened, but I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up as a pilot error (as in almost every case).
When business goes to hell, you get rid of three things. Your private jet, your yacht and your mistress..........and most importantly in that order.
~ Russian Billionaire ~
 
threeifbyair
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:44 pm

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:56 pm

Debris in the water from CNN feed.

Has to have impacted something either very hard (high sink rate) or short of the runway. No other way something ends up in the water.

We've all landed at SFO or airports like it where there is no "margin for error" with water (DCA, LGA, BOS) running right up to the runway. My sister is en route to BOS right now, going to think about her a little more now.
 
nycdave
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:22 pm

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:56 pm

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 122):
Listening to the LiveATC archive right now. Scary as hell. Major A+ to the ATC controller on duty - deserves a pat on the back for that one

Or a raise! I hear they could use those...  
Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 140):

WHY CANT NEWS ORGANIZATIONS ACTUALLY HAVE AVIATION EXPERTS ON STAFF?

Money, money, money, money. With CNN eliminating their investigative reporting staff, the Chicago Sun-Times getting rid of their photographers, etc... The investors don't want to spend on even basic journalism, let alone having "experts" on staff in case something happens that they could cover!
 
Scipio
Posts: 926
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:38 am

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:56 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 114):
Second hull loss of a B777

Third hull loss. An Egyptair 777 was written off after suffering a cockpit fire on the ground at Cairo Airport, on July 29, 2011. There were no injuries in that incident.
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3916
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:57 pm

ABC news is saying it looks like many passengers survived.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
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Miami
Posts: 6082
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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:57 pm

My thoughts and prayers go out to the injured.   

It looks like the landing gear hit the sea wall entering SFO.. It's quite strange how passengers say that the tails was separating upon landing. I wonder how exactly it happened..

Again, my thoughts and prayers go out to the affected ones. I hope everyone is OK.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
Thomas_Jaeger
Posts: 2223
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 5:35 pm

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:57 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 178):

I didn't think they had LR's, but CNN kept saying LR. I was perplexed.

Found that on Flyertalk from months ago, that explains why GDSs and Flightradar24 show B777-200(LR) decoded from 77L:

"New Asiana = 77L or 77W under aircraft type (they are both 777-200ER's but internally, 77L refers to 2-class 772 with new seats and 77W refers to 3-class 772 with new seats)
Anything else = old seats"
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
Geo772
Posts: 439
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:40 pm

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:57 pm

Quoting illinicmi (Reply 176):
Quoting LLA001 (Reply 163):
Where is the flight recorder located at 777 ? if it is near tail section that ripped off, it might be damaged beyond use?

Not sure exactly, but generally towards the tail. Anything is possible, but I'm guessing this impact is "minor" compared to what it is designed to survive.


They are located above the rear galley. So once the risk of any further fire has gone they should be easily retrieved.
Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
 
us330
Posts: 3506
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:57 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 183):

"At this time, we have no fatalities, one critical already airlifted and at San Fran General.

That same account says all 303 persons on board were accounted for about 35 minutes ago.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3299
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:58 pm

Quoting aerobalance (Reply 181):
You're light, favorable winds and wx, a long runway in front of you, you land short. Why? What the hell.

Things happen unfortunately. I'm not sure what the set up is at SFO but maybe landing short makes the taxi to the terminal quicker?

Quoting cuban8 (Reply 188):
Maybe we shouldn't take fast conclusions as to what happened, but I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up as a pilot error (as in almost every case).

I'm not trying to state it as fact. Just what it looks like to me.

Scott Brenner a Former FAA Official just said on Fox everybody got off safe. Take it as you will, but that's the report.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
dispatchguy
Posts: 627
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:08 am

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:00 pm

The ILS 28R was out of service

!FDC 3/3512 SFO FI/T IAP SAN FRANCISCO INTL, SAN FRANCISCO, CA.
ILS OR LOC Z RWY 28R, AMDT 11A...
ILS RWY 28R CAT II&III, AMDT 11A...
ILS OR LOC Z RWY 28L, AMDT 23A...
LDA/DME RWY 28R, AMDT 1A...
LDA PRM RWY 28R (SIMULTANEOUS CLOSE PARALLEL), AMDT 1A...
ILS PRM RWY 28L (SIMULTANEOUS CLOSE PARALLEL), AMDT 2...
PROCEDURE NA.

So the crew wouldve done a visual approach (unless they did a GPS, which I dont know if AAR is approved for), and with the impact markings/debris starting at the sea wall, I'm wondering if the crew got low and slow on a visual. There is a PAPI-L on the left side, but with all the construction going on with that runway, I am not sure if the PAPI is still available.
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
goomba
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:55 pm

OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 1

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:00 pm

Landing gear impacted the sea wall and aircraft pitched high to rip tail off. Pilot wasn't even near the piano keys...landed way short. Not making accusations, but you can clearly see point of impact on sea wall and tail section is completely disintegrated before piano keys. What would cause this? Short on fuel, engine failure, pilot error? Oddly similar coincidence to the BA 777 incident at LHR a few years ago. I pray everyone is OK

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