Sancho99504
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:17 pm

I've seen it mentioned once or twice over nearly 950 posts and that is becoming disorientated while flying over water with the lack of visual aides.

I have about 700 hours on floats and I have a tendency to misjudge my altitude or even misjudge exactly where I'm at in relation to the touchdown spot at certain places that have established landing zones for floatplanes. I wonder if this is indeed something that did happen and the PF was not double checking his gauges against his visual interpretation of what his altitude was. Flying over water does play mind tricks, especially over glassy water or very calm water conditions.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Scipio
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:18 pm

"She said at a news conference outside San Francisco General Hospital the two 16-year-old girls who died were found on either side of the plane near the "front middle." Investigators are determining whether they were alive or dead when rescuers reached the scene."

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/...trans-pacific-flight-terror/nYftP/

This does suggest that the girls were not ejected from the plane, but taken out by others. Lots of road rash wounds, suggesting people got injured while others were dragging them to safety.

And 2 people paralyzed.

Very sad.
 
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scbriml
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:19 pm

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 51):
Oxygen may not be flammable, but take oxygen away from a fire and guess what? The fire dissipates as it doesn't have the required fuel to burn..........

Fire cannot burn without Oxygen, but it's incorrect to describe Oxygen as the fuel. Oxygen is one side of the classic 'fire triangle', the others being heat and fuel. You need all three for a fire. Take any one of them away and you kill the fire.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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lastrow
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:20 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 78):
KAL, the other big Korean airline, used to have IMHO a very poor cockpit safety culture, a military model where the captain was king. CRM....nah. They hired DL to evaluate their situation, and DL gave them a lot of good input on policies and procedures and CRM.

Some other source says, KAL hired a retired Delta employee, D. Greenberg [1]. That is one person. Do you suggest that when KAL entered Sky Team, Delta persons worked with KAL to this regard?

But this happened 13 years ago with the Korean flag carrier - what is exactly the point here with Asiana, which is by far a younger airline with different background? Let's wait for the voice recorder which might shed some light on what happened in the first row.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/26/bu...is-coming-off-many-shun-lists.html
 
PBNZ
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting awthompson (Reply 45):

No-one as yet, apart from myself at post 48 in thread 2 has commented on this photo:

http://twitter.com/stefanielaine/status/353591123958173696/photo/1


From the angle the wings make with respect to the fuselage, this appears to me to show the aircraft travelling tail-forwards down the runway - this may be the spin that witnesses mentioned..... anyone else think this?
 
mcg
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:25 pm

The thing that strikes me about this accident is the incredible survivability of the 777. With all respect to the folks that died or were injured, more than 99% of the people on the plane survived. This is a testament to the robust design of the 777 and the training and skill of the cabin crew.
 
atomsareenough
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:25 pm

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 100):

I've seen it mentioned once or twice over nearly 950 posts and that is becoming disorientated while flying over water with the lack of visual aides.

I have about 700 hours on floats and I have a tendency to misjudge my altitude or even misjudge exactly where I'm at in relation to the touchdown spot at certain places that have established landing zones for floatplanes. I wonder if this is indeed something that did happen and the PF was not double checking his gauges against his visual interpretation of what his altitude was. Flying over water does play mind tricks, especially over glassy water or very calm water conditions.

This isn't the middle of the ocean or anything. You're flying parallel to the bay shoreline as you descend to 28L at SFO. Plenty of reference points.
 
atomsareenough
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:28 pm

Quoting PBNZ (Reply 104):
From the angle the wings make with respect to the fuselage, this appears to me to show the aircraft travelling tail-forwards down the runway - this may be the spin that witnesses mentioned..... anyone else think this?

The tail is painted brown and pink and purple and yellow, and the front of the plane is painted white. The white part appears to be leading in the photo, so it doesn't look "tail-forwards" to me.
 
lastrow
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting Scipio (Reply 101):

At first aid courses you are told that you would better leave the persons as they are if there is strong evidence for inner fractures. I guess that does not apply when this happens inside some plane about to burn soon. Maybe their injuries became worse when they were carried out of the aircraft.
 
Burkhard
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:33 pm

Is it true that KSFO, during the time of the accident, was safety wise in a state in which most airports would just be closed - ILS broken, PAPI broken? So all technological progress that had helped to get the rate of accidents low was gone, the pilots had to perform a manual visual approach like in the eraly days of aviation with all its risks . Maybe the lesson is that either a top airport has to have its systems working, or should be closed - safety first, not profit first.
 
mark2fly1034
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:41 pm

To add on to what some have said. It appears to have been a visual app. So the PF should of been looking outside and the Copilot inside and maybe a little outside. There would have been two other pilots in the jump seats at the time of landing. So as far as we can tell it will come back to be pilot error. I hope for the pilots sake that they tell the truth. I also believe that the people we hear talking about what they saw had no idea before the crash that something was wrong. If that plane was 100' to low 1 mile out, you would not be able to tell. They only say that the app looked weird because they saw the crash. They also say it cartwheeled I do not see any evidence of that happening.

To add on the Media continues to beat this into the ground and have no idea what they are talking about. Some of the best things I have heard

"The plane hit the ground minutes before landing"
"The passengers were inside the plane when it skidded"
"The Left engine is missing"
"The plane hit the ground" (All planes need to hit the ground or water depending on the plane)

Add your own.
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:47 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 109):
Is it true that KSFO, during the time of the accident, was safety wise in a state in which most airports would just be closed - ILS broken, PAPI broken? So all technological progress that had helped to get the rate of accidents low was gone, the pilots had to perform a manual visual approach like in the eraly days of aviation with all its risks . Maybe the lesson is that either a top airport has to have its systems working, or should be closed - safety first, not profit first.

If the flight was conducted at minimums I would probably agree with you. But when the weather is essentially perfect I find that to be a poor excuse. Those early days of risky approaches were also done with a generation of aircraft with safety levels way below those of current day. Airlines don't cancel flights because an ILS and PAPI are out of service. Flying without a PAPI is something every private pilot should be able to accomplish, never mind a 777 pilot. Yeah they add an extra level of safety, but it when a runway is 10,000 feet long the pilot can put in a safety buffer to compensate for the lack of aids and still have plenty of runway to stop the aircraft.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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aloha73g
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:50 pm

Quoting Mark2fly1034 (Reply 110):
Some of the best things I have heard

There was an idiot with a British accent on TV saying over and over that, "the 777 is known for its 3-5-3 seat configuration!"

-Aloha!
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:52 pm

Quoting atomsareenough (Reply 107):
The tail is painted brown and pink and purple and yellow, and the front of the plane is painted white. The white part appears to be leading in the photo, so it doesn't look "tail-forwards" to me.

At that point in timethe tail was already lying on the runway. It's visible on that photo:

http://cfile22.uf.tistory.com/image/23145C3A51D8D91D137059

On the above photo, I've noticed and asked in the previous thread whether the sinuous line leading to the aircraft nose is a mark made by the nose landing gear. Others here thought it might be. I guess if the airplane ever moved tail-forward, that mark by the gear and other marks in the dirt would be different. By the way it looks on the twitter photo, the airframe appears to be moving sideways with the rear almost pointing towards the photographer.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:54 pm

To all who seem to be shaking their heads at the fact that a 'simple' visual approach can be such a hurdle to an experienced jumbo pilot, I'd like to pitch in:

-Visual approaches are highly unusual when flying an aircraft on main international routes. 99% of approaches are flown using ILS and operators encourage maximum use of the automatics to alleviate pilot workload.
In fact, even non-precision approach are unusual and thus represent a 'threat' as soon as they come up. I am fairly certain the OZ crew briefed it extensively before initiating the descent (at least I hope).

-The life of a long haul pilot is definitely a different one from that of a regional bouncer. They fly an average of 6 or 8 sectors a month, during which they'll be at the controls less than half the time. As said above, all the the approaches flown would be automated.

-An aircraft like a 777 is not remotely easy to fly in manually, especially at low level and during approach. These heavy birds are sluggish, respond late to inputs, and take a lot of anticipation due to the fact that you are approaching a runway at 150kts. The huge control surfaces, especially the elevators, mean that they require very precise control inputs.
The difference between 3 and 3.5 degrees nose up attitude on final can translate into as much as a 500ft/min difference in the rate of descent. That alone is enough to start an oscillating instability in your visual approach, the correction of which is compounded by the lack of visual guidance.

-Operators do not tend to spend much training resources on teaching VFR flying, much less visual landings. It is only a small fraction of what you would do in your yearly sim sessions, if at all. (That might change...)

Which does not mean it is a dangerous thing to do. Pilots flying regional or medium haul would fly up to several sectors a day and have much more experience in handling the aircraft. I am certain that a visual approach without guidance is a walk in the park for a pilot flying 744D around Japan all day for instance, but to an equally experienced pilot flying the same 747 across the globe a handful of times a month, it's a different experience...

For what it's worth, and just to address the speculative case of a botched visual/manual landing...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
Flyer732
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:58 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 109):

Is it true that KSFO, during the time of the accident, was safety wise in a state in which most airports would just be closed - ILS broken, PAPI broken? So all technological progress that had helped to get the rate of accidents low was gone, the pilots had to perform a manual visual approach like in the eraly days of aviation with all its risks . Maybe the lesson is that either a top airport has to have its systems working, or should be closed - safety first, not profit first.

Seriously? Every pilot is taught from day one how to fly without an instrument approach, those come later. Much later. The airport I fly out of has no instrument approaches at all, nor are there any visual slope indicators, and it is served daily by RJ's and biz jets who are perfectly capable of handling the approach and landing without having an ILS.

On top of that, I've never heard of an airport closing because the ILS was out of service, its in the NOTAMs and thats that. And lastly, there are RNAV approaches to the 28's at SFO which could be used if the crew thought it wasn't possible. But on a perfect day like yesterday, there is no need.
 
Fastphilly
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:59 pm

Looks like some amatuer video of the crash has surfaced. watch CNN
 
Mir
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:00 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 109):
Is it true that KSFO, during the time of the accident, was safety wise in a state in which most airports would just be closed - ILS broken, PAPI broken?

No. Airports operate normally with equipment out of service or construction going on all the time and nobody bats an eye. If you had to close an airport whenever you wanted to make repairs to something, you'd have a hard time keeping it open.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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jmw99ttu
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:01 pm

CNN is showing video of the crash. From watching it I can see why initial eye witness accounts said the plane cartwheeled during the crash.
 
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glideslope
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:02 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 105):
The thing that strikes me about this accident is the incredible survivability of the 777. With all respect to the folks that died or were injured, more than 99% of the people on the plane survived. This is a testament to the robust design of the 777 and the training and skill of the cabin crew.

I could not agree more. While we wait for answers, and feel for those lost, IMO the only reason people got out was the main fuselage stayed intact. IMO, the wings staying in tacked for the most part significantly reduced the rate of fire migration.

The 777 is amazing in may positive ways.   
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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135mech
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:02 pm

Hearing the ATC recording, it reminded me of the Alaska Airlines T-tail crash years ago. I am so grateful that in this day and age, people are still willing to help others out, especially the pilot of the other plane reporting survivors and where they are/were to aide ATC in directing emergency response vehicles etc.

That ATC Controller and the others involved did an amazing job, which...even though they are trained to do so, staying calm in the midst of an accident to ensure all remaining flights were taken care of...is how good they were.

RIP to the two students and their families for their losses.

Regards,
135Mech
135Mech
 
trnswrld
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:03 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 109):
Is it true that KSFO, during the time of the accident, was safety wise in a state in which most airports would just be closed - ILS broken, PAPI broken? So all technological progress that had helped to get the rate of accidents low was gone, the pilots had to perform a manual visual approach like in the eraly days of aviation with all its risks . Maybe the lesson is that either a top airport has to have its systems working, or should be closed - safety first, not profit first.

No that is not true. Where do you come up with this stuff, the media? The weather was perfect clear blue skies with 10+ mile visibility. Commercial airline pilots are expected to be able to perform these types of approaches. I dont see how you think that the ILS or some lights on the side of the runway being broken to be the primary cause of a couple highly experienced triple seven pilots to land their plane short of the runway. Im not saying that this crash was just pilot error because we have no clue at this point, but to suggest that commercial pilots shouldnt be allowed to perform a basic visual approach in optimal weather conditions is just ridiculous.
 
Norcal773
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:03 pm

So CNN just showed a video of someone who was spotting off of Millbrae. The plane did do a cartwheel, made a 360 degree turn and you can clearly see the nose angle was way up before contact. It's a crazy video!
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
atcanobbio
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:05 pm

wow, CNN just showed a video of the plane coming in. Video was shot by a planespotter. It seems the plane bounced pretty bad and it even seems it did a full 360.
 
by738
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:05 pm

...Condor "Airlines" indeed. I wonder how they got away with that.
 
cuban8
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:11 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 114):

This is the most accurate and well written post so far in this thread. Besides what you wrote, you can add approximately 11 hours of flight behind (fatigue), it might have been a rushed approach or less track-miles then planned from the crew adding to stress, loss of situation awareness to a certain extent. The list can be very long, so don't just judge a crew for a visual approach in cavok weather.
When business goes to hell, you get rid of three things. Your private jet, your yacht and your mistress..........and most importantly in that order.
~ Russian Billionaire ~
 
Fastphilly
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:11 pm

WOW!! To have that plane in relatively one piece after that is a testament to the quality build of the 777. Thank you Boeing!
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:18 pm

That video on CNN is incredible. He looks like he tried to gain the altitude back or perhaps go around but just did it too late. It's an absolute miracle so many people survived that hit. I don't like to point out manufacturers but kudos to Boeing for building the 777 so well.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:19 pm

The CNN video would seem to show that the tail section hit the water(?) Its tough to tell given the low res of the video. I too am amazed the rest of the a/c didn't break up given the "cartwheel" effect as it spun into the dirt siding.

Kudos to Boeing. Stout construction likely saved lots of lives.
 
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135mech
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Quoting atcanobbio (Reply 124):
wow, CNN just showed a video of the plane coming in. Video was shot by a planespotter. It seems the plane bounced pretty bad and it even seems it did a full 360.

That would have sucked to be on that plane (awaiting take off) watching it!

135Mech
135Mech
 
cuban8
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:20 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 105):
The thing that strikes me about this accident is the incredible survivability of the 777. With all respect to the folks that died or were injured, more than 99% of the people on the plane survived. This is a testament to the robust design of the 777 and the training and skill of the cabin crew.
Quoting glideslope (Reply 120):
The 777 is amazing in may positive ways.   
Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 127):
WOW!! To have that plane in relatively one piece after that is a testament to the quality build of the 777. Thank you Boeing!

I think the B777 is an amazing aircraft and I do believe that it is strongly built as all other Boeing models (or for that part Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier etc). That being said, I honestly think that the outcome of a crashed airplane is all about how skillful/lucky you are when you land/crash it.
When business goes to hell, you get rid of three things. Your private jet, your yacht and your mistress..........and most importantly in that order.
~ Russian Billionaire ~
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:20 pm

This thread is going too fast to follow so sorry if this picture has already been posted:

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOmOsfSCEAAfzzH.jpg:large

http://twitter.com/NYCAviation/status/353970940679426048/photo/1
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
nutsaboutplanes
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:21 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 123):
It's a crazy video!

I cant believe that fuselage stayed in one piece. The approached definitely looked low and the nose up angle seemed unusual to me.

That is an amazing video especially knowing that only two deaths resulted from an accident of that magnitude.
American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
 
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CALTECH
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:21 pm

Yesterday before the incident, we had a 757 that had it's FMCs acting up. Flight Plan would load but not show total distance among some other things. Also had a IRU glitch which cleared up. Placing both FMCs on MEL is feasible but restrictive. A visual approach must be made in absolutely clear conditions. When it was attempted to defer the FMCs, there was a cloud layer being reported at SFO. Dispatch would not allow the aircraft to continue with both FMCs on MEL. Ended up replacing the right FMC cross loading it and all the discrepancies cleared up. Flight was delayed by almost 3 hours, which impacted it as it approached SFO. The flight would have made it before the Asiana incident. Believe it was diverted to San Jose.

These restrictions in the MEL are for any airport with these issues.

Checking the Nav Data software, there is special software required and loaded for SFO because of the ILS shutdown.
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Amwest2United
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:23 pm

28R is open and operating. Great news for the heavies
Life is what happens to you while you making plans to live it!
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:26 pm

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
eal46859
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:26 pm

On the news they interviewed a french man who said just before the pilot tried to raise the nose and applied more power, the engine was taking in water . He said then the plane hit the ground or sea wall...
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:28 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 113):
I've noticed and asked in the previous thread whether the sinuous line leading to the aircraft nose is a mark made by the nose landing gear. Others here thought it might be.

It positively is. The nose strut is visible right next to door 1R in front of the engine, complete with axle and steering actuators. It is right in line with the gouge marks in the dirt, and must have separated from the aircraft just as it came to rest.
 
AR385
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:29 pm

Wow!. It came very close to turning upside down. They were very, very lucky.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 114):
-An aircraft like a 777 is not remotely easy to fly in manually, especially at low level and during approach. These heavy birds are sluggish, respond late to inputs, and take a lot of anticipation due to the fact that you are approaching a runway at 150kts. The huge control surfaces, especially the elevators, mean that they require very precise control inputs.

Guess you've never flown a 777, it's very light on the controls and easy to maneuver -- not as nimble as a 737 but definitely not the description you're giving which sounds more like a 747. I'd compare it with a 757.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 114):
As said above, all the the approaches flown would be automated.

So what you're saying is every landing you make is with the autopilot on until touchdown and you never disconnect I to make the landing -- I don't think so.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 114):
For what it's worth, and just to address the speculative case of a botched visual/manual landing...

Which is probably exactly what it was. If you can't land an airplane without electronic aids under VMC conditions on a straight in approach with no wind issues you don't belong in the cockpit!!
 
us330
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:31 pm

Quoting jmw99ttu (Reply 119):
From watching it I can see why initial eye witness accounts said the plane cartwheeled during the crash.

Yep. It nearly did cartwheel. It's a wonder that the fuselage managed to stay intact.
 
Klaus
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:32 pm



Quoting Fastphilly (Reply 127):
WOW!! To have that plane in relatively one piece after that is a testament to the quality build of the 777. Thank you Boeing!

Airplanes must be sturdy to survive regular abuse including firm landings, turbulence and so on for many years to be certifiable in the first place – and that applies to all manufacturers.

Great that this 777 has been able to keep almost all aboard alive – but sad that it couldn't keep all alive.

[Edited 2013-07-07 13:36:37]
 
MakeMinesLAX
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:41 pm

Based on the Fred Hayes video, the cartwheeling everyone's described looks more like a 360-degree spin with the nose at the center. That would explain the fuselage buckling just forward of the wings, and would be consistent with asymmetrical thrust (assuming the left engine were lost initially) and the lack of empennage. I think that explains the ground trace, which does seem to be that of the nose gear.

[Edited 2013-07-07 13:46:23]
 
by738
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:41 pm

looks like a cartwheel to me.... I did doubt the initial eyewitness accounts as well ! amazing it stayed intact, no wonder that other engine is a long distance away
 
rfields5421
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:44 pm

Much higher and more violent than I had expected.

I expected spinal crush injuries from the initial G force impact, but the secondary impact after the spin in the air must have been significant.
 
Viscount724
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:45 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 24):
The ILS for both 28R and 28L was OOS - the pilots should have been briefed before this flight that the ILS was out.

In the latest press conference, the airport spokesman just said the localizer was operational and the glideslope was not operational.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 24):
There is confustion if the PAPI was out of service, or if the PAPI was damaged/ destroyed by the crash.

The same person said the PAPI was operational.
 
atcanobbio
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:06 am

RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:46 pm

according to NTSB, go-around alarm went off 1.5 seconds before impact, so they pretty much had no chance. I wonder why the alarm went off that late.

[Edited 2013-07-07 13:47:09]
 
nutsaboutplanes
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:37 am

RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:46 pm

NTSB says stick shaker activated 4 seconds before impact and that a "go-around" was called 1.5 seconds before impact.

"engines appear to have responded normally" per FDR

NTSB also notes that a flight deck crew member called for an increase in speed 7 seconds before impact.

[Edited 2013-07-07 13:48:56]
American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
 
tcfc424
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:56 am

RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:47 pm

Based on what the NTSB Chairperson revealed about the data on the CVR and FDR, it would tend to suggest a loss of situational awareness by the crew flying the aircraft.
 
Fastphilly
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:32 am

RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 4

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:47 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 143):
Airplanes must be sturdy to survive regular abuse including firm landings, turbulence and so on for many years to be certifiable in the first place – and that applies to all manufacturers.

Great that this 777 has been able to keep almost all aboard alive – but sad that it couldn't keep all alive.

Oh come on. To compare turbulence and firm landings as a barometer of an aircraft to maintain it's structural integrity compared to this accident is laughable. Your either an Airbus employee are the biggest fanboy on the planet
 

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