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pdxswa
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First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:15 am

The first sighting of the split scimitar winglet equipped 738 series. Looking sharp !!!!!!

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Unite...Airlines/Boeing-737-824/2286405/L/
 
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rotating14
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:46 am

Wow. I was under the impression the new winglet design was only for the MAX, not current new builds. Bad angle to judge the appearance but at least we know there is good progress.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:53 am

I was not aware the new winglet would be fitted on the 737 NG, somehow I've completely missed this news.
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CONTACREW
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:56 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 2):
I was not aware the new winglet would be fitted on the 737 NG, somehow I've completely missed this news.

The entire 737NG fleet will be getting retrofitted with the scitimar winglets.
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flood
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:58 am

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 1):
I was under the impression the new winglet design was only for the MAX

The split-scimitar winglets are from Aviation Partners and differ from Boeing's own design used on the MAX.
http://www.aviationpartners.com/news...-APB-UAL-Split-Scimitar-Launch.pdf
 
pdxswa
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:58 am

Rotating14 and KarelXWB here's some info that will be helpful to everyone.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...rom-united-airlines-211765891.html
 
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rotating14
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:00 am

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 3):

Is there a timeline when the retrofit is to be completed, considering they have NG's rolling off the FAL?
 
Ruscoe
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:01 am

To me it looks a lot like the wingtip devices that the A320 has had from the beginning, only bigger.

Ruscoe
 
iahcsr
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:13 am

what's the additional wingspan? It's clearly going to cause a great deal of trouble at many airports to create the extra wing clearance space.
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garpd
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:17 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 7):
To me it looks a lot like the wingtip devices that the A320 has had from the beginning, only bigger.

Ruscoe

It's clearly very different to me and bears no similarity whatsoever to the A320 wingfence which looks like a slab of CFRP hot-glued to the A320 wing, whereas this thing looks like part of the wing with an extra growth sprouting below it.
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RussianJet
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:39 am

Quoting iahcsr (Reply 8):
It's clearly going to cause a great deal of trouble at many airports to create the extra wing clearance space.

I would very much doubt it will, or they wouldn't be busy retrofitting an entire fleet with it. I personally would assume they've already looked at this rather obvious issue.
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rscaife1682
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:56 am

Why do I get the feeling that the bottom part of the winglet and certain ramp vehicles will not mix well  
 
r2rho
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:05 pm

I had no idea split winglets were planned for the NG's as well!

I can understand the forward-fit... but does anyone know what are the savings with respect to blended winglets, that makes UA think a retrofit is worthwhile? I assume the retrofit would be fairly "plug and play" with little downtime?
 
RussianJet
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:06 pm

Quoting rscaife1682 (Reply 11):
Why do I get the feeling that the bottom part of the winglet and certain ramp vehicles will not mix well

With the usual precautions it shouldn't be any worse. You still shouldn't really be driving around that part of the wing anyway without specific need, but if you do need to you just need to be careful - as should be the case already anyway.
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VC10er
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:00 pm

It is very cool looking and a welcome change to the 737. I just wished a new nose cone came from the newest 738 designs. It still looks like a 727!
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lightsaber
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:20 pm

Nice. I see who the final customer is.   This will really help 739ERs.

Quoting rscaife1682 (Reply 11):

Why do I get the feeling that the bottom part of the winglet and certain ramp vehicles will not mix well

Understatement. How many will be broken? But the overall economics will be an improvement.

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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:21 pm

Wow, that looks really......weird. I suppose that these will grow on me, but not yet.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):

Oh my God tell me these aren't going to be fitted on DL's 739's! :O
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Rdh3e
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:25 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 12):
I can understand the forward-fit... but does anyone know what are the savings with respect to blended winglets, that makes UA think a retrofit is worthwhile?

It's something like $1-2M fuel savings per year. I'll have to find a source.
 
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garpd
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:41 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 14):
It is very cool looking and a welcome change to the 737. I just wished a new nose cone came from the newest 738 designs. It still looks like a 727!

There is a difference?
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FriendlySkies
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:43 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 17):
It's something like $1-2M fuel savings per year. I'll have to find a source.

Per aircraft?
 
T5towbar
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:50 pm

Quoting rscaife1682 (Reply 11):
Why do I get the feeling that the bottom part of the winglet and certain ramp vehicles will not mix well

I'm looking forward to that briefing.............  

Loading from the rear, the way it looks, you'd have to be extra careful driving near the wing. Regular wing walking and clearance space wouldn't be a problem.
I'd worry more about the fuelers, especially fueling on the wing. The Airbus "fences" are a lot higher than these, so we'll see.

Besides PAE, will MCO be doing these mods as well?

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 17):
It's something like $1-2M fuel savings per year. I'll have to find a source.

More than 250 million in fuel a year according to Aviation Partners press release in the link on the 2nd post (flood)
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:01 pm

looks like the evolution of this:

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Swiss...d=557ba20c58592915d42541af3c86ee61


but seriously the 737NG (wonder why they still keep calling it NG  ) already sits so low on the ground. how much is the actual ground clearance now between the ramp and the bottom of the lower winglet?

refueling trucks will have to be EXTRA careful with those thingys now   
 
lostsound
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:43 pm

Boeing and Airbus have swapped winglets! Haha.

Initially, these look ugly to me. We'll see if it grows on me; maybe Boeings design will be resolved better.
 
warreng24
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:06 pm

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 3):
The entire 737NG fleet will be getting retrofitted with the scitimar winglets.

Really? The whole fleet? Even the 1998 and 1999 delivered NG's? It's hard to imagine that the ROI would pay off for a 15 year old aircraft. The improvements in fuel consumption must be HUGE in order to justify installation on a 15 year old aircraft (vice keeping the existing winglets)
 
CONTACREW
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:18 pm

Quoting warreng24 (Reply 23):
Really? The whole fleet? Even the 1998 and 1999 delivered NG's? It's hard to imagine that the ROI would pay off for a 15 year old aircraft. The improvements in fuel consumption must be HUGE in order to justify installation on a 15 year old aircraft (vice keeping the existing winglets)

https://hub.united.com/en-us/News/Company-Operations/Pages/new-winglets-planned-for-united-737ng.aspx
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United1689
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:22 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 9):
the A320 wingfence which looks like a slab of CFRP hot-glued to the A320 wing

Lol   

Quoting rscaife1682 (Reply 11):
Why do I get the feeling that the bottom part of the winglet and certain ramp vehicles will not mix well

I completely agree.

WOW they look sharp! I thought for some reason they weren't until 2014. Can't wait to see these flying around. It's funny how these found their way onto a Boeing aircraft right as the Sharklets came onto the Airbus... Airbus will probably come out with their own in a few years.
  

Does anyone know if these require a certain duration of flight for the fuel savings to really take effect like Sharklets do?

[Edited 2013-07-16 09:35:06]

[Edited 2013-07-16 09:37:46]
 
Rdh3e
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:23 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 19):
Per aircraft?

Yes per aircraft

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 20):
More than 250 million in fuel a year according to Aviation Partners press release in the link on the 2nd post (flood)

So about $1M per year per aircraft.
 
ghifty
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:57 pm

Anybody have a side picture? They look grossly oversized in the computer renderings!

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 21):
(wonder why they still keep calling it NG &nbsp 

The 737OG..?

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 21):
how much is the actual ground clearance now between the ramp and the bottom of the lower winglet?
Quoting r2rho (Reply 12):
I can understand the forward-fit... but does anyone know what are the savings with respect to blended winglets, that makes UA think a retrofit is worthwhile
Quoting iahcsr (Reply 8):

what's the additional wingspan?

All this info. can be found on the APB website

Ground clearance: either 11 ft 3 inches or 10 feet 3 inches.. hope they get that sorted out!  Wow!




Span increase: 16 inches.



Savings: varies. Seems like on a flight like LAX-CUN, UA would be seeing a 1.9% improvement. I assume that's over the blended winglet. Somebody who actually knows where UA deploys their 738 fleet will probably be able to tell us what this retrofit means fleetwide..

I have no idea how to read the second chart..




*graphics from APB

[Edited 2013-07-16 10:02:20]
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yeelep
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:31 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 27):
Ground clearance: either 11 ft 3 inches or 10 feet 3 inches.. hope they get that sorted out!  

The 11 ft 7 inches refers to the height of the winglet not ground clearance.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:53 pm

Just a reminder that we've known this retrofit was coming for a while:
UA To Retrofit 737 Fleet With "Scimitar" Winglets (by catiii Jan 15 2013 in Civil Aviation)
 
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pvjin
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:33 pm

That design looks really ugly on a 737, still nice to see Boeing managing to improve economics of the 737NG before the MAX comes.

[Edited 2013-07-16 11:35:32]
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:23 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 27):
Ground clearance: either 11 ft 3 inches or 10 feet 3 inches.. hope they get that sorted out!

Thanks for the charts! and yes the 11ft 3 inches refers to the total height of the winglet itself. ground clearance is 10ft 3 inches....hmm that is going to be a bit of a headache for the ramp crew...a few dings in the making   
 
gigneil
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:27 pm

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 3):
The entire 737NG fleet will be getting retrofitted with the scitimar winglets.

The entire United 737 fleet.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 14):
It is very cool looking and a welcome change to the 737. I just wished a new nose cone came from the newest 738 designs. It still looks like a 727!

The nosecone is stillllll the same nosecone from the 727 on even the very newest 737s and the MAX.

NS
 
by738
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:36 pm

why change the aerodynamics of a nose cone if they are as good as they can get for the model ?
 
SWALUV
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:36 pm

Ummmmmmmm...... Hopefully WN will hold off on these.... Or at least paint them so they don't look so akward. Hopefully they will grow on me though!
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:20 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 33):
why change the aerodynamics of a nose cone if they are as good as they can get for the model ?

It wasn't kept, because it was a better design than the 757 nose. It isn't. It was kept, because Southwest didn't want to have to maintain two sets of spare parts for their classic 737's and NG's.
 
CONTACREW
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:13 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 32):
The entire United 737 fleet.

Exactly what I said.
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SXDFC
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:28 am

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 34):
Ummmmmmmm...... Hopefully WN will hold off on these....

As of now, there are no plans to retrofit the fleet with these winglets, however you will see them on our 737-7 and -8MAX aircraft.
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:37 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 2):
somehow I've completely missed this news.

Im surprised you did, your usually the first to post this kind of stuff  
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ADent
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:57 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bill Shemley


Picture from OP
 
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lightsaber
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:37 am

Am I the only one who likes the look of these new winglets?

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 16):
Oh my God tell me these aren't going to be fitted on DL's 739's!

Having nightmares yet?  
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 19):
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 17):
It's something like $1-2M fuel savings per year. I'll have to find a source.

Per aircraft?

Yep. The longer the mission, the more the savings.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 27):
Ground clearance: either 11 ft 3 inches or 10 feet 3 inches.. hope they get that sorted out!

The catering trucks will ensure they know which is what.   

Quoting ghifty (Reply 27):
I have no idea how to read the second chart..

It is the payload at range. It shows
1. Out to about 2200nm, there is fractionally less payload with the new Split Scimitar winglets (due to their weight).
2. Very quickly, the lines cross at longer ranges thanks to the fuel savings of the Split Scimitar allowing the 738 to haul quite a bit more in weight.
3. Until 3100 nm, which is the maximum range with 162 passengers (or 16.2 metric tons of payload IIRC) for the current winglets or 3165nm with the same payload with the new Split Scimitar winglets.

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g38
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:47 am

Just wait until someone does this and knocks their new set of winglets off:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paulo Santos - Aerospray

 
platinumfoota
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:41 am

Quoting rscaife1682 (Reply 11):
Why do I get the feeling that the bottom part of the winglet and certain ramp vehicles will not mix well
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
Understatement. How many will be broken? But the overall economics will be an improvement.
Quoting T5towbar (Reply 20):
Loading from the rear, the way it looks, you'd have to be extra careful driving near the wing. Regular wing walking and clearance space wouldn't be a problem.
Quoting [email protected] (Reply 31):
hmm that is going to be a bit of a headache for the ramp crew...a few dings in the making

Every time I read one of these comments I rubbed the back of my head. Glad the clearance is enough so that I wont have to worry about splitting my head open on one of these

[Edited 2013-07-16 21:42:29]
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thebatman
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:01 am

To me, it is very reminiscent of the MD-11 winglet.

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tozairport
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:55 am

Worst. Photoshop. Job. Ever.

Enough said.
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tozairport
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:16 am

Or, if you needed proof, please take the time to read...

In January 2013, APB launched the Split Scimitar Winglet program for the provisioned 737-800 with an order from United Airlines. FAA supplemental type certification for the Boeing 737-800 is targeted for October of this year with EASA certification planned within the following two months. Certification flight testing of Split Scimitar Winglets on the 737-900ER will follow closely behind and is scheduled to begin in November with FAA supplemental type certification targeted for late February 2014.

It hasn't even been installed yet. This place is ridiculous at times.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:35 am

Quoting tozairport (Reply 45):
It hasn't even been installed yet. This place is ridiculous at times.

And how exactly are they supposed to get the STC approved by October if they don't install it on an airframe beforehand for testing?
 
CONTACREW
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:27 am

Quoting tozairport (Reply 45):
It hasn't even been installed yet. This place is ridiculous at times.

Photo looks legit to me. Tail #277 is the first aircraft to get the Scimitar winglets. If everything goes as planned it should be done around September 8th.

[Edited 2013-07-17 01:28:26]
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:58 am

Quoting tozairport (Reply 44):
Worst. Photoshop. Job. Ever.

Enough said.

  Really? Can you do better then? Even so, Im sure a.net wouldn't allow a fake photo...
I'll wake from the dream, To keep and relive, Now life it is a dream, And dream's on a... BREAK!
 
flood
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RE: First Split Scimitar Winglet Equipped 738 Sighting

Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:12 am

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 48):
Even so, Im sure a.net wouldn't allow a fake photo...

Well, I suppose they could be duped by one. But I don't think the photographer in question would upload such to begin with.

Quoting tozairport (Reply 45):
This place is ridiculous at times.

At least you got that part right  

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