Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8971
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

Any B 747D Around Still?

Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:08 am

Any B 747D around still? B747-400D? I understand that JAL and ANA have retired most of them if not all. What happened to the retired planes?

What does JAL/ANA use to fly domestically now?
 
ktachiya
Posts: 1517
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:54 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:03 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Any B 747D around still? B747-400D? I understand that JAL and ANA have retired most of them if not all. What happened to the retired planes?

If the data is correct, there are just 4-5 more in the ANA fleet but will be retired by the end of fiscal 2013 so a couple of months to go!!!

They are used on the HND-CTS and HND-OKA routes on a regular basis.

It will fly to Centrair for the one last time on August 25th as the Pokemon jet.

The B773 and B772 are the primary aircrafts used on these routes but routes like HND-KMQ are now served by a mix of B767 and B777s (both types).
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:51 pm

NH has six, one is the Pokemon livery.


Someone told me there's a petition drive somewhere to get the Pokemon yellow livery preserved. Whoever doesn't put that thing in a museum is incredibly stupid lol
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8971
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:41 pm

What happened to the rest? Who wants a B747 with such short flying distances?
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:51 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 3):
What happened to the rest? Who wants a B747 with such short flying distances?

There was nothing to prevent the 744Ds from operating much longer routes. They were even designed so the wingtip extensions and winglets that were not installed on the 744Ds could be added later if the aircraft were moved to long-range routes.
 
UA787DEN
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:59 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:07 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 3):
What happened to the rest? Who wants a B747 with such short flying distances?

They were aimed towards the Japanese carriers wanting high capacity in relatively narrow gates on short routes. Either the extensions will be added or they will be retired forever. I highly doubt there is another airline in the market for such secondhand 747-400Ds.
 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8971
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:51 am

Don't they have smaller tanks?

Will there be a A380D or B747-8D?

What does JAL fly domestically? B777-300?
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:53 am

NH's 74Ds have about a 500+ person capacity. IIRC 20 first, and god knows how many in eco.

They don't have winglets either, although this aircraft was designed to be converted into a normal 744 config.

When NH began to retire their 744s they no longer needed to convert the Ds, and with 773s filling the void quite well, the 744D wasn't so much needed.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8971
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:34 pm

Guess JAL and ANA will eventually order the B 747-8 and/or the A380
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:42 pm

According to my info, only 4 B744D aircraft are active, all with NH:

> LN 927 (JA8957, yellow Pokémon livery)
> LN 972 (JA8960)
> LN 975 (JA8961)
> LN 1066 (JA8966)

Unfortunately, the one with the Pokémon Flower livery (JA8956) is out of service.

[Edited 2013-07-19 12:07:48]
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:06 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
NH has six, one is the Pokemon livery.

Four, not six.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 3):
What happened to the rest? Who wants a B747 with such short flying distances?

19 B744D aircraft were built:

> LN 844: JAL JA8083, scrapped
> LN 879: JAL JA8084, scrapped
> LN 891: ANA JA8099, scrapped
> LN 907: JAL JA8090, parts stripped
> LN 914: ANA JA8955, destroyed
> LN 920: ANA JA8956, parts stripped (Pokémon Flower livery)
> LN 952: ANA JA8959, parts stripped
> LN 927: ANA JA8957, active (Pokémon Yellow livery)
> LN 935: JAL JA8903, scrapped
> LN 941: JAL JA8904, parts stripped (Disney livery)
> LN 948: JAL JA8905, scrapped (DisneySea livery)
> LN 963: JAL JA8907, scrapped (Dream Skyward livery)
> LN 972: ANA JA8960, active
> LN 975: ANA JA8961, active
> LN 978: JAL JA8908, scrapped (Disney Friends livery)
> LN 991: ANA JA8963, scrapped
> LN 996: ANA JA8964, scrapped
> LN 1060: ANA JA8965, parts stripped (Pocket Monsters livery)
> LN 1066: ANA JA8966, active

[Edited 2013-07-19 12:06:40]
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3552
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
There was nothing to prevent the 744Ds from operating much longer routes.

Two of them were in fact converted to regular 744's back in the early 00's. I flew on one of these - it was a pretty awful experience. 14+ hours on a 747 with a Japanese domestic cabin. Wouldn't have been so bad except I was expecting their regular cabin, so I literally brought nothing with me to do. I believe they did refit the cabins pretty quickly as well, but the time I flew on one seemed to be right around the time they first did the mechanical conversion and they seemed to have just not gotten around to it yet.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 8):
Guess JAL and ANA will eventually order the B 747-8 and/or the A380

Not for domestic use, and probably not for international use either.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 6):
What does JAL fly domestically? B777-300?

Mostly 737's, 767's and 777's of various types. I have personally flown domestically on JAL on a 777-300 and a 777-300ER(!) The ER was on a route of about 300 miles. I'd guess they do that to get an extra round trip per day out of a plane that would otherwise sit there all night waiting for its next long haul flight.

But like the US, Japan likes frequency so as air traffic drops, they'd rather cut down the size of the planes than cut down the number of flights.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:40 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 6):
Don't they have smaller tanks?

The four 744 Lites operated by BA (G-CIVF to 'VI) are fitted with the standard 744 tail tank. However it has never been connected. These four aircraft therefore have a reduced range and a lower registered MTOW (381,017 kg) than the rest of the BA 744 fleet (396,893 kg). So they do not appear to operate to BKK, CPT, MEX or SIN (but do sometimes operate to HKG, JNB and PEK). Their cabins are configured for 299 passengers (F14 / J70 / W30 / Y185) with just a single extra row of Y Class seats compared to the other 291 seat 'Hi J' BA 744s (F14 / J70 / W30 / Y177).

Whether this is indicative of how some of the 744D's fuel tanks are configured or not I do not know.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:41 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 8):
Guess JAL and ANA will eventually order the B 747-8 and/or the A380

I highly doubt a 747 will be owned in Japan ever again, except for a replacement for the State Aircraft. The BC A380 order has surprised us all.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 10):
Four, not six.

Yeah sorry, forgot 2 were retired last year.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
User avatar
Loran
Posts: 689
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:13 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:23 pm

The last one retired was JA8965 a month ago:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Keisuke Iyori



Glad I flew on this one in Nov 2011 in the upper deck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPCM07eDPAs

Regards,
Loran
703 717 727 732-9 747 757 767 777 787 AB2/6 310 318-321 330 340 359 380 D8M D91/3/5 D1C M11 M81-90 L10 IL1/8/6/7/W/9/4 TU3/5/2 YK4/2
 
Cessna172RG
Posts: 643
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:31 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:27 pm

The question was, what does JAL fly domestically? Answer:

737-800
767-300/300ER
777-200
777-300

Unsure about how they use the 787, I'll have to check their flight schedule timetable book that they put out every few months.

Compare with ANA:

A320
737-700
737-800
747-400D (as mentioned above, only a few are left and they are soon to disappear)
767-300/300ER
777-200
777-300
787-8
Save the whales...for dinner!!!
 
777way
Posts: 6457
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:03 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 3):
Who wants a B747 with such short flying distances?

PIA could use them for Saudi routes, their 743s carry 500 passengers.
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6795
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:13 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
I highly doubt a 747 will be owned in Japan ever again

Two 747-8Fs have recently been delivered to ANA Cargo with 14 more on firm order. Japan will have 747s for many years to come, you just may not be able to catch a ride on them unless you stuff yourself in a box first.  

tortugamon
 
N747PE
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:47 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:49 pm

I doubt anyone would want the birds. They must have close to a million cycles on them  
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:36 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 17):
Two 747-8Fs have recently been delivered to ANA Cargo with 14 more on firm order.

They sent 2 to be parked in the desert, so I doubt they will accept any new frames until the cargo market picks up.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:21 am

Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 15):
Compare with ANA:

A320
737-700
737-800
747-400D (as mentioned above, only a few are left and they are soon to disappear)
767-300/300ER
777-200
777-300
787-8

And the Q400. Seat map below (sorry, only in Japanese).
http://www.ana.co.jp/dom/inflight/seatmap/q84/
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:33 am

Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 15):
Unsure about how they use the 787, I'll have to check their flight schedule timetable book that they put out every few months.

purely international use.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 17):
Two 747-8Fs have recently been delivered to ANA Cargo with 14 more on firm order. Japan will have 747s for many years to come, you just may not be able to catch a ride on them unless you stuff yourself in a box first.

WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH where did this come from? Someone send me some links and some photos,
unless you're mistaking this for the KZ order. KZ is no longer affiliated with NH.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
User avatar
NWAROOSTER
Posts: 1326
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:29 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:46 am

Quoting Loran (Reply 14):

The last one retired was JA8965 a month ago

According to the comments made on the photo mentioned, the aircraft was flown to Tupelo, Missisippi. This airport has a 6500 foot asphalt runway. That tells me that the aircraft is most likely to be scrapped.
  
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
777way
Posts: 6457
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:56 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 17):

Those are Nippon Cargo not ANA.
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:14 am

Quoting Loran (Reply 14):
The last one retired was JA8965 a month ago:

And here's how it looked today at TUP. It's now engineless and awaiting its turn to be pieced apart:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b304/TheSpy11/2013Mississippi407.jpg

[Edited 2013-07-23 19:14:51]
 
cornutt
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:57 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:22 am

So will there be any more high-capacity/short-range specials for these types of routes?
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3552
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:27 am

Quoting cornutt (Reply 25):
So will there be any more high-capacity/short-range specials for these types of routes?

Highly doubtful. For one, they're not needed - the 777-300's are big enough for the shrinking Japanese domestic market. Japan's population itself is shrinking, it's a saturated travel market already and there's a lot of competition from trains for domestic destinations, so the prospects for domestic airline growth are virtually nil. If a 777-300 is big enough now, there's not going to be a need for anything bigger for probably the next 50 years.

The mods required for the 747-400D also aren't needed on the 777-300, and I'm not sure if it was intentionally designed that way or if it's just a result of its size and configuration. The 744D needed a strengthened landing gear to deal with its weight and a high cycle operation, but it actually got *downrated* engines because its max payload was lower, and of course there's the difference you can physically see, which is the lack of winglets. The 777 doesn't have winglets to begin with, it probably didn't need uprated gear because it's lighter, and as a twin, the non-ER, non-GE90-115B models are probably already "downrated" as far as they can be to still satisfy requirements for single engine takeoffs.

So unfortunately for those of us who dislike the homogeneity of modern aviation, the 777-300's going to pretty much be the biggest domestic airliner for Japan or any other country for the foreseeable future. Perhaps someday we will see 777-300's replaced with 787-10's or A350WXB's on these routes, but they won't be customized for domestic use for the same reasons the 777-300 isn't.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
User avatar
747classic
Posts: 3051
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:27 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 10):
19 B744D aircraft were built:

Actually 20 747-400D aircraft were produced (11x ANA, 9x JAL) :

L/N-serial number-type-basic number-variable number-initial airline operator.

844 25213 747-446D R2901 RU801 JAL
879 25214 747-446D R2902 RU802 JAL
891 25292 747-481D R2903 RU831 ANA
907 26347 747-446D R2904 RU803 JAL
914 25639 747-481D R2905 RU832 ANA
920 25640 747-481D R2906 RU833 ANA
927 25642 747-481D R2907 RU834 ANA
935 26345 747-446D R2908 RU804 JAL
941 26348 747-446D R2909 RU805 JAL
948 26349 747-446D R2910 RU806 JAL
952 25646 747-481D R2911 RU835 ANA
963 26351 747-446D R2912 RU807 JAL
972 25643 747-481D R2913 RU836 ANA
975 25644 747-481D R2914 RU837 ANA
978 26352 747-446D R2915 RU808 JAL
991 25647 747-481D R2916 RU838 ANA
996 27163 747-481D R2917 RU839 ANA
1031 27099 747-446D R2918 RU809 JAL
1060 27436 747-481D R2919 RU840 ANA
1066 27442 747-481D R2920 RU841 ANA

To complicate things further two 747-481 aircraft were modified to the 481D configuration (shortend wing + removal of the winglets), to produce a short haul aircraft in 2003 at the former Boeing Military Airplanes facility (Wichita).
However the fuselage was AFAIK not fully upgraded to the real 744D's specification.
Both aircraft are already sold and converted again by Bedek, now as a 747-481BDSF(again with winglets) before the cycle count became to high.
Aircraft involved :
1133 28282 747-481 R2716 RT756 ANA
1142 28283 747-481 R2724 RT757 ANA

For more background info, see : 747-300 @ 747-400D (by rjm777ual Dec 19 2011 in Tech Ops)
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11796
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:46 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 8):
Guess JAL and ANA will eventually order the B 747-8 and/or the A380

They will not - especially for domestic use. The draw-down of the 744D started when Osaka Itami's airport authority put a moratorium on four-engined aircraft operations for pollution and noise abatement considerations.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:59 am

Quoting 747classic (Reply 27):
Actually 20 747-400D aircraft were produced (11x ANA, 9x JAL) :
Quoting 747classic (Reply 27):
1031 27099 747-446D R2918 RU809 JAL

Thanks, LN 1031 slipped underneath my radar because it was converted to an 747‑446.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:37 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 28):
They will not - especially for domestic use. The draw-down of the 744D started when Osaka Itami's airport authority put a moratorium on four-engined aircraft operations for pollution and noise abatement considerations.

Lets not forget Hashimoto's rather distaste of ITM   
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:23 pm

ANA to retire Boeing 747 jumbo jets by March 2014:

http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0000415755
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2619
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:26 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 29):
Quoting 747classic (Reply 27):
1031 27099 747-446D R2918 RU809 JAL

Thanks, LN 1031 slipped underneath my radar because it was converted to an 747‑446.

JA8912 has always been a -446. JAL has never done 744 domestic/int'l conversions to its fleet.
It did do a 743SR to 743 conversion on four aircraft though, in the late 1990s.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:16 am

If I may believe its history, JA8912 was originally intended as -400D.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:19 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 31):
ANA to retire Boeing 747 jumbo jets by March 2014:

This is sad....I seriously hope the remaining Pikachu jet gets a museum home.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2619
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Any B 747D Around Still?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:34 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 34):
This is sad....I seriously hope the remaining Pikachu jet gets a museum home.

Most likely not. The biggest problem is lack of land at any popular place.
Saying that, there is yet to be a whole 747 on display in Japan. So perhaps somewhere at anyone of the provincial airports a 747 can be saved and displayed.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos