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ual747den
Posts: 1604
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:32 am

Quoting questions (Reply 45):
In the US, it is also about creating executive wealth.

Executives are paid what they are worth to the board and therefore shareholders. You cant expect to have successful executives working for nothing when they can go to a different company and make more. Again you are paid what the market allows and that is what you are worth.

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 46):
And where is this NW now ?

Do not think this is a great example to use. NW is no more. And their last years were not good at all.

Umm that's my point, with the unions it was a company sinking fast, they got rid of the unions and now its a successful operation.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 47):
I didn't say you wouldn't be offered. I can promise you, if you refer to frontline employees as you do, you wouldn't last long in Atlanta.
if you let a frontline employee hear you, id expect you to be packing right then.

You really don't get it, I am great at my job one of the best and I know this because of the offers that I get. I wouldn't be sent packing because I would be an asset to the airline. Without people like me there is no need for people like you to work on those front lines. If everyone from the bottom up was doing an excellent job in their position the airline would be efficient and employees on all levels would be paid what they are worth. Airlines have proven that even with outsourced employees and a high turnover the job can still be done just as well so why do those employees deserve more? They dont, if they would bring more value to the company they would be worth more to the company. This is very simple stuff I dont understand why it is so hard for you to understand.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 47):
you didn't answer my question. You're in and will be asking for 10 an hour, thats what you're worth. I own airlines shares and thats what i say you're worth...so I fully expect you to do so.
don't care if your family won't be able to eat, you take 10 an hour.

Your question is flawed because I am not worth 10 an hour I am paid a lot more and you could not find someone to do my job for that pay. If you could however find someone to do your job for that then thats what you are worth, that is what the market demands for your skills. Now you may do your job much better than the other people who hold the same position however that doesn't matter in the airline industry because you want you value to be based on seniority rather than the work you do. I would NEVER settle for an hourly wage job with my only incentive being to stay at the company a long time. I would rather work my ass off everyday and be able to move over to a different company if I don't like what is happening to my current employer because I have a skill that is valued and needed.

On a more personal note if you are so amazing at your job and have a better understanding of how labor in your position should be managed than why aren't you working in a management position where you could influence change to better the company and your coworkers?

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 47):
Having said that, your big and bad behind that computer screen, care to man up and say that to the faces of those employees?

I would be happy to ask those out of work MX how they feel now. Im sure most of them had to start over at a much lower wage than they were being offered at a company just like the one they said couldn't do what they did. I would say that by now most of those employees realize that they blindly followed their union guidance into hell. The union said that NW couldn't do exactly what they did do and they were extremely successful doing it. I would be happy to meet with anyone of these guys.
Frontier Airlines - Low Fares Done Right
 
shaq
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:22 am

RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:05 am

Here is the problem with some station employees (gate agents and rampers)
All families deserve to be well-fed. All people should pursuit happiness (sometimes happiness needs money). Nobody deserves to live below a bridge, as someone here said.
But, in my opinion, you can't try to live off and have a family being a ramper o gate agent. You want skilled labor wage, doing a unskilled work.
All jobs are good if they are legal. I don't have any problem with ground agents.
But if you plan to have two kids, a good house and ride a nice car, doing unskilled labor, you're wrong my friend. Airlines, as any company needs to be competitive, and they can't if someone is willing and knows how to do the job as you do, but with lower wages.
These jobs are good if you are in college and need some extra money, but not for dads looking to feed the family.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 28):
We are just trying to save our jobs that are middle class decent jobs. We contribute to this economy too.

Your job is a decent one. Every job is, if it is legal. But I think that when people talk about middle class jobs, they refer to skilled labor and up . Ie. teachers, doctors, lawyers, pilots, engineers, etc.
I respect all opinions, so I expect others to do the same with mine.
Studying hard, for flying right!
 
Grisee08
Posts: 464
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:13 am

I am one of the people who would work regardless. I would rather have a little money in today's economy than have nothing at all, which is all that picketing these days will get you. There are hundreds of thousands of people out there who would give anything to be able to have a job, yet there are some who ARE working who take advantage of everything they DO get.

I understand that it's not fair that management gets multi-million dollar salaries topped with million dollar bonuses or what-not, but life isn't fair. In today's world, you take what you can get, and be happy with it.

Having said that, I would like you all to watch this short film, featuring Neil Flynn.
http://youtu.be/DPOSPECfOkU
Alright Alright Alright!
 
F9Animal
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:20 am

The biggest problem is so easy to see. Why hold frontline employees accountable for the piss poor performane of the bottom line? How about holding the leadership accountable, since that is where the real issue lies.

How can anyone stroke themselves, and tell people they are skilled and doing a great job in management? Seriously, every single exec and manager is to blame for losses and failure of a business. If you own a bar and can't make profits, do you blame the bartender? Or, do you blame the owner? How many failing bars get sold, and the new owners turn it into a profitable business, with the same bartender?

Outsourcing is not the answer to the airlines problems. The airline needs better management. The frontline workers that get outsourced are the victims of incompetent leadership. Blaming it on union or non union frontline employees is just pathetic.

And please... If you are going to defend your great management skills, and point blame on other managers.... Fine.... I wouldn't expect any less from a manager. Why? Because you all will throw anyone under a bus to save your job. Kinda sucks when the shoe is on the other foot.........
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
shuttle9juliet
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:29 am

This happened back in 2007 when BA outsourced check in, ramp and dispatch in the UK regions, and contracted it out to a third party handling agent.
The delays in the beginning were rife, customer service was poor. Now they are on their 3rd handler in 6 years.
A good trick BA play is that the check in staff now wear BA uniform, not just in the UK regions, but it makes them look good and no doubt fools the customers.
I always believe that as soon as you outsource, standards drop immediately, it is that old saying "pay peanuts"!!
 
xdlx
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:29 am

Quoting ual747den (Reply 4):

The only thing that changes in this business ... is the Management Faces allow to profit from the employees that make it work. Cut, slash, reduce headcount, is the only way they know how to cut cost.
 
brilondon
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:44 am

There is no place for organized labour (crime) in today's free market economy and all labour unions should be made to conform to the market they are in. If there is a company who can do it for less because of no unions, then why should airlines be forced by the unions to meet their demands. I for one applaud UA for this in trying to reduce costs, which are artificially inflated by the union demands, and making it easier for the airline to compete in today's competitive airline industry. We could ultimately see reduced fares and fees or not see increases in the fares because of the competition.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
bobnwa
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:51 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 16):
Why do you think Delta is the way it is? You know how many times they have talked about outsourcing post merger? How many lay-offs? How many times they have said YOUR the problem?

I don't believe Delta ever said any of that

Quoting Grisee08 (Reply 52):
I understand that it's not fair that management gets multi-million dollar salaries topped with million dollar bonuses or what-not, but life isn't fair. In today's world, you take what you can get, and be happy with it.

Please tell us how many members of management got multi-million dollar salaries and million dollar bonuses and who they wer. Gross exageration
 
wwtraveler99
Posts: 229
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:34 pm

RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:00 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 29):
Ouch. What'd I ever do to you? Unless you're suggesting "management" only means C-suite and execs? There are a lot of good people here, and most are here because they are extremely good at their jobs.

I think F9anamail made his point. You here the "outsourcing" and quickly say how you are a good person and do your job well. Don't you think the same is true on the other side of the fence. Now maybe you can get just a slight feel of what the "union" worker is deal with in the situation.


WW
 
eaglepower83
Posts: 360
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:52 pm

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 13):
The short answer is: Yes, they can! But as mentioned in other posts, sometimes the company doesnt want to "work" it out. They simple do not want the employees on thier payroll. I am sure in most cases the employees would prefer to work things out and stay employed. But it takes two to tango. I am not saying that the unions are always the easiest to work with. But I am sure they are more than willing to discuss ways to keep everyone employed.

I think you hit the nail on the head here.
Being at my 3rd company right now.....two private and now Fortune 50, all of them........ALL of them would prefer not to have any employees at all. They don't want a payroll, they don't want an HR dept, they don't want to have to pay benefits.
If they could outsource ALL of it and just write some flat rate checks, they would.

My current group is in a tussle between two outsource firms. Low cost and high cost. High cost is sitll cheaper than in-house, and they do the best work. Low cost, we usually have to redo their work when it gets back.
Those of us in the trenches know the low cost outsourced work being redone in-house is NOT saving any money. But in the financial buckets that the MBA dweebs look at.......it's all good. We're saving tens of thousands!
But nobody looks at the big picture of all the REWORK we do when we use low-cost.

Back to airlines. When I deal with UA vs AA at ORD, UA's counters are always full of these "Airserv" contractors, who look like they really don't want to be there, and half of them don't know what they're doing.
Dealing with the AA people in T3, they all have AA badges and are almost always pleaseant and prompt to deal with.
This reflects DIRECTLY on the airline.
Hmmmmm.......

[Edited 2013-07-30 06:37:32]
 
norcal
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:40 pm

Quoting ual747den (Reply 34):
You are completely right about seniority being everything and that is one of the big problems with the industry, could you imagine if just that one little thing changed and people were paid based on performance, which by the way is a HUGE part of pretty much every managers pay, how things would look.

I understand where you are coming from but with pilots it would be impossible to implement a performance based plan.

- Everyone is expected to fly airplanes to near perfection so you can't judge performance based off of that.
- You can't judge performance based off the number of flight hours flown either because that encourages pilots to push themselves to the limits increasing the risks accidents due to fatigue. Not to mention it puts added stress on family life. For example, a commuting pilot could be a much better employee then a pilot living in base but if the pilot in base flies more since he is closer to work then he would get the promotion.
- Chief Pilots and other managers aren't around to see all the things pilots do right, they only hear about the things they didn't do right or had the appearance of not doing right. They do not have the face to face contact every day needed to evaluate performance and promote based off of merit.

Quoting ual747den (Reply 50):
Executives are paid what they are worth to the board and therefore shareholders. You cant expect to have successful executives working for nothing when they can go to a different company and make more. Again you are paid what the market allows and that is what you are worth.

No they aren't paid what they are worth, they are paid what their cronies on the board of directors think they are worth. They all scratch each other's back in aviation and the rest of corporate America. If it was truly an objective system, executive pay in America wouldn't have risen to 240 times the average worker from 20 times the average worker. That much value hasn't been added to these companies.
 
eaglepower83
Posts: 360
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:49 pm

Quoting norcal (Reply 60):
No they aren't paid what they are worth, they are paid what their cronies on the board of directors think they are worth. They all scratch each other's back in aviation and the rest of corporate America. If it was truly an objective system, executive pay in America wouldn't have risen to 240 times the average worker from 20 times the average worker. That much value hasn't been added to these companies.

Yeah.....and IF they were paid what they were worth, they would not get bonuses and severance packages when their companies underperform or go belly up!
Today, for some reason, the highest executives get paid whether their companies perform well or poorly, or not at all.
 
 
CAL
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:19 pm

I never really post on here.. However I would like to say that I really wish United management would read or re-read the book, From Worst to First , and take the playbook from there..
Treat your employees good and your employees will automatically take care of your customers. In turn your customers will keep coming back..... Thats all we want.
 
T5towbar
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:40 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 56):
There is no place for organized labour (crime) in today's free market economy and all labour unions should be made to conform to the market they are in. If there is a company who can do it for less because of no unions, then why should airlines be forced by the unions to meet their demands. I for one applaud UA for this in trying to reduce costs, which are artificially inflated by the union demands, and making it easier for the airline to compete in today's competitive airline industry. We could ultimately see reduced fares and fees or not see increases in the fares because of the competition.

I'm sorry you feel that way. This is a heavily unionized business. Why we are blamed for bad management decisions? The company is not in BK. Costs are not artificially inflated; fuel is the number one cost of any airline now, not labor. Flying is now cheaper than ever. It is not actually matching the costs of doing business, but airlines are showing a profit. But employees have to suffer and sacrifice for every, I'll say again....EVERY bad management decision. We take paycut after paycut and furlough. But we've always adapted. It's not like everybody is making top dollar - at most airlines it takes a decade just to top out. It's not an excessive "demand" to hold the line on scope. In the airline business, scope is the most important thing. More than money. Every workgroup has it in their contracts. Wouldn't you fight for what you have? Plus, we are not the only workgroup who doesn't has a contract yet and it has almost been three years now.

BTW. You will not see reduced fares, that's for sure. They will go up with consolidation. They eventually have to. You will have four major carriers (AA;DL;UA;WN); a medium sized small carrier (B6; maybe VX); and a couple of low fare carriers (F9; NK; Allegiant). That's it. And some of the smaller cities will lose service due to the increasing sizes of regional aircraft. 50 seat aircraft is no longer viable now.

I know that people hate labor on this board, but with all of the bad mismanagement over the years, we just catch the brunt of it all.

Quoting xdlx (Reply 55):
The only thing that changes in this business ... is the Management Faces allow to profit from the employees that make it work. Cut, slash, reduce headcount, is the only way they know how to cut cost

Yup. Airline Management 101.
Don't forget the bonuses that management gets for failing "upward".

Quoting SHAQ (Reply 51):
Your job is a decent one. Every job is, if it is legal. But I think that when people talk about middle class jobs, they refer to skilled labor and up . Ie. teachers, doctors, lawyers, pilots, engineers, etc.
I respect all opinions, so I expect others to do the same with mine.

It's a job one can live on. Even though it takes a toll on your body. Plus there are many other benefits as well. With one of the handling outfits, its not even close. You can't live on what's offered. I guess you want us to live under that bridge, huh??

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 57):
Please tell us how many members of management got multi-million dollar salaries and million dollar bonuses and who they wer. Gross exageration

Quite a few. And the merger is not even completed (in a operationally sense) yet. IMHO, a complete merger is one where every workgroup is working side by side, bidding together. A standard IT; a unified technical standards; one complete unified system. We still are not, but as one of the previous posters said we still made a profit with the inefficiencies. Imagine if we were all as one, like DL. We would be one great airline!
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
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CALTECH
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:18 pm

Quoting ual747den (Reply 50):
Umm that's my point, with the unions it was a company sinking fast, they got rid of the unions and now its a successful operation.

Could you please give some info on this NW 'successful operation' ? There are quite a few ex-NW Techs working in MCO who are waiting for this great news. They want their seniority back too.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 47):
part of a company that nearly makes 1 billion a year BECAUSE of it MX UAL hates so much.

Wut ?     
You are here.
 
OB1504
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:52 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 28):
Back to the outsourcing issue. One thing about the outsourcers s they are as good as their contract. Once the lose a contract, another low ball outfit comes in and cuts the pay of the employees of the previous company. Wash; Rinse; Repeat. So you get a very high turnover with people who have no vested interest in the company. You can make more money working in an airport shop than what these outsourcing companies pay.

   MIA is one bright exception because many contractors are required to pay their employees a living wage, often times higher than the entry level pay offered by airlines.

Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 59):
Dealing with the AA people in T3, they all have AA badges and are almost always pleaseant and prompt to deal with.
This reflects DIRECTLY on the airline.

AA recently outsourced their passenger service representatives (red coats). Have you noticed any difference in the quality of service?
 
jayunited
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:53 pm

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 37):
All Airport Customer Service employees are hired as Ready Reserves, meaning they work a maximum of 999 hours per year (I think that limit has been increased since I left) - usually 10-30 hours per week, are not on a pay scale, and only receive pass travel priviledges (no health/401k). As regular, benefitted positions open up, Ready Reserves are able to move into those by seniority, but many don't, instead enjoying the flexible schedule.

Thank you for answering my question. That is a very interesting program so basically these people are part timers with no benefits at all except pass travel privileges. And because they only are working up to 30 hours a week this allows them to take on a second job or go to school or live their life how they see fit. I can see the benefit in this program it saves Delta a lot of money while giving employees a lot of flexibility.

I have 2 questions for anyone who works for Delta and might know the answer. The first question is what is the percentage of Ready Reserve employees to Regular Benefitted employees at Delta? It doesn't have to be the entire system lets take ATL or JFK for example, does anyone know how many are Ready Reserve and how many are Regular with benefits?
Second question is without a pay scale what is the starting pay for Ready Reserve and how doe Delta go about giving Ready Reserve employees pay raises?
 
OB1504
Posts: 3784
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:58 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 66):
Thank you for answering my question. That is a very interesting program so basically these people are part timers with no benefits at all except pass travel privileges. And because they only are working up to 30 hours a week this allows them to take on a second job or go to school or live their life how they see fit. I can see the benefit in this program it saves Delta a lot of money while giving employees a lot of flexibility.

I would love to work for DL as a Ready Reserve, and I've spoken to plenty of disillusioned AA agents who've said they would've chosen DL if they could do it all over again. At my current place of employment as a contractor, the lack of travel benefits afforded to us is the big sticking point.
 
cle757
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:19 pm

Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
eaglepower83
Posts: 360
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:59 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 65):
Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 59):
Dealing with the AA people in T3, they all have AA badges and are almost always pleaseant and prompt to deal with.
This reflects DIRECTLY on the airline.

AA recently outsourced their passenger service representatives (red coats). Have you noticed any difference in the quality of service?

I was just through ORD for the Jul4 weekend...............no I had no idea.
Is this new?
The staff seemed fine and attentive.
Maybe they undergo much better training or ........... more stringent hiring?
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3587
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting F9animal (Reply 53):
The biggest problem is so easy to see. Why hold frontline employees accountable for the piss poor performane of the bottom line? How about holding the leadership accountable, since that is where the real issue lies.

Just FYI, Salaries and Wages is a line on the expense sheet. So everyone is accountable to some degree for the performance of the bottom line.

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 58):
I think F9anamail made his point. You here the "outsourcing" and quickly say how you are a good person and do your job well. Don't you think the same is true on the other side of the fence. Now maybe you can get just a slight feel of what the "union" worker is deal with in the situation.

I can agree with this to a point. However, I'm also not sitting here celebrating the outsourcing, I wish we could have mainline folks doing these jobs. It's just too often not in the cards. I would rather have a smaller mainline workforce and be able to pay those people better, than have a larger workforce and be asking for pay-cuts all the time. How you get to the smaller workforce and where those cuts come from is a different topic (I'd prefer attrition, not backfilled on the UA seniority list). In a world where I ran UA, every employee would be able to live a good life on their company pay if they work hard and do what is right.
 
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ual747den
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:26 pm

Quoting norcal (Reply 60):
I understand where you are coming from but with pilots it would be impossible to implement a performance based plan.

I agree, there is no real way to do that with a pilot but the other groups could easily have this kind of system.

Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 61):
Yeah.....and IF they were paid what they were worth, they would not get bonuses and severance packages when their companies underperform or go belly up!
Today, for some reason, the highest executives get paid whether their companies perform well or poorly, or not at all.

Companies that are failing have to pay executives a lot more because there is a lot more risk and work to be done. Would you leave your successful company to go save a failing company if there wasn't some kind of incentive in place? I know it seems like a catch 22 but thats how it works and must work to recruit the talant needed to save such a company.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 63):
BTW. You will not see reduced fares, that's for sure. They will go up with consolidation. They eventually have to. You will have four major carriers (AA;DL;UA;WN); a medium sized small carrier (B6; maybe VX); and a couple of low fare carriers (F9; NK; Allegiant). That's it. And some of the smaller cities will lose service due to the increasing sizes of regional aircraft. 50 seat aircraft is no longer viable now.

We NEED higher fares, the fares that we have to work with these days are FAR too low. This is a major part of the problem, when you have to compete with new companies who have far less costs than you do because you have been around forever it makes things really hard but if you don't compete with those fares you're done.

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 64):
Could you please give some info on this NW 'successful operation' ? There are quite a few ex-NW Techs working in MCO who are waiting for this great news. They want their seniority back too.

Those guys will never get anything because they decided that if they couldn't keep their inflated pay they would take the whole airline down with them, NW laughed in their faces and went out and hired people who do what they couldn't at a rate that is competitive. Delta turned that operation into a very successful one after NW put out the trash.
Frontier Airlines - Low Fares Done Right
 
OB1504
Posts: 3784
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:29 pm

Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 69):
The staff seemed fine and attentive.
Maybe they undergo much better training or ........... more stringent hiring?

A little of both, I'd say. The selection of a service provider definitely makes a difference. AA got burned in MIA when police busted a ring of their contracted skycaps taking cash payments for baggage fees and pocketing them (skycaps are only allowed to take credit card payments) and violating positive passenger bag match and some other rules, so I think they're less inclined to pick the lowest bidder at any cost.
 
thorntot
Posts: 51
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:03 pm

Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 59):
Back to airlines. When I deal with UA vs AA at ORD, UA's counters are always full of these "Airserv" contractors, who look like they really don't want to be there, and half of them don't know what they're doing.
Dealing with the AA people in T3, they all have AA badges and are almost always pleaseant and prompt to deal with.
This reflects DIRECTLY on the airline.
Hmmmmm.......

Loyal employees are beholden only to the owner of the checking account on their paycheck, and even then a level commensurate with employee's ability to pay their bills with a single job. When the visionaries left American and the only folks left in charge were accountants, a truly great airline was destroyed by outsourcing at all levels from the flight deck to the bag room. Accountants and lawyers, lacking vision but seeking short-term gains at the behest of investors, will forego tomorrow's dollars to pick-up today's pennies.

Quoting cal (Reply 62):
I never really post on here.. However I would like to say that I really wish United management would read or re-read the book, From Worst to First , and take the playbook from there..
Treat your employees good and your employees will automatically take care of your customers. In turn your customers will keep coming back.....

Spot on. In every business, you win with people. As a manager, if your employee group is but a labor cost on your balance sheet, you have no business running an enterprise with more than one employee. You certainly have no business running an enterprise with someone else's employees.
Work Hard. Fly Right. Fly United.
 
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CALTECH
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RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:42 am

Quoting ual747den (Reply 71):
Those guys will never get anything because they decided that if they couldn't keep their inflated pay they would take the whole airline down with them, NW laughed in their faces and went out and hired people who do what they couldn't at a rate that is competitive. Delta turned that operation into a very successful one after NW put out the trash.

But where is NW ? You said NW was a successful operation now, can not find them anywhere.

As far as inflated pay goes, think it might be a good idea to read up on what actually happened rather than throwing out some inaccurate statements.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-05-26-nwa-talks_x.htm

"Mathews said Northwest's proposed pay cuts would send mechanic base pay back below where it was even after the 1990s concessions, when it was $18.45 per hour."

At Continental, Techs were topping out at around $33 IIRC at this time frame, base rate was probably around $30.

"Faced with massive losses — $458 million in the last quarter alone — Eagan-based Northwest has been seeking to cut mechanics' pay by about 25% and lay off nearly half of them. "

We saw some of those NW hired after NW rid themselves of their NW mechanics, there were a lot of mechanical incidents all of a sudden with these so called, as posted, "people hired at competitive rates."

In MCO, United has sUAL rampers on the UAL flights and DGS rampers running sCAL ramp for sCAL flights. Both have their good points and bad, but I would rather see in house folks doing the work. Maybe there will not be any more company folks in the future, just out source them all, probably cheaper.
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unitednrt
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:43 am

RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:18 am

Quoting ual747den (Reply 1):

Your comments are not to be confused with real managements' opinion of our co-workers. Our front-line employees are the backbone of the company and you should know that...especially being from a hub.

The whole talk of going through SFO/DEN...you must not be important enough of "management" to be at WHQ.

From one management employee to "another"...watch what you say. Your opinion is, thankly enough, just that.

Edit: your profile says you are at WHQ...in which case, I would expect better of you. You obviously do not represent the standard that United tries to set for its management...I hope I do not have to work with you...ever. If you think our employees do not have the right to voice their opinions...please leave.

Keep supervising,

Tom

[Edited 2013-07-30 22:33:39]
"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
 
User avatar
ual747den
Posts: 1604
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:13 am

Quoting unitednrt (Reply 75):
Your comments are not to be confused with real managements' opinion of our co-workers. Our front-line employees are the backbone of the company and you should know that...especially being from a hub.

The whole talk of going through SFO/DEN...you must not be important enough of "management" to be at WHQ.

From one management employee to "another"...watch what you say. Your opinion is, thankly enough, just that.

Edit: your profile says you are at WHQ...in which case, I would expect better of you. You obviously do not represent the standard that United tries to set for its management...I hope I do not have to work with you...ever. If you think our employees do not have the right to voice their opinions...please leave.

Keep supervising,

Tom

Yes Tom I do work at WHQ and live in DEN. Because of this commute there are several employees on this board who know who I am and you wont find one of them with bad things to say about me, I treat everyone with respect. I would love for you to send me a personal message and take my information, you are more than welcome to drop by and share your ideas with me anytime, after all we work in the same building why not just have this conversation face to face, right?
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COSPN
Posts: 1771
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:21 am

Quoting norcal (Reply 35):
Average CEO compensation has increased 1000% since 1950. Companies aren't doing a 1000% better so we are way over paying for executives

Wow good point, its one reason the US is where it is today... almost bankrupt.. a race to the bottom
 
eaglepower83
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:54 pm

RE: United Ground Employees Protest Outsourcing

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:37 pm

OK, this one's for ual747den. (and a bit OT)

If your frontline employees are the "backbone" to the enterprise, then why did the corporation take their tools and empowerment away?
There is absolutely no excuse for agents to constantly tell me "the new system won't let me anymore" or have agents sit on hold for 20min. while trying to clear permissions from HOU-Ops to let them do something in your "fantastic" PSS.

As a former UA frequent flyer, I have no trust in the organization's leadership to get me where I want to go on time and hassle free, nor do I trust them to properly handle their employee and operations business.

I hope you guys are discussing this vast chasm of customer and employee dissatisfaction up in your shiny new digs in Sears Tower. I'm embarassed to see what has become of my home-town airline.

[Edited 2013-07-31 06:20:56]

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