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ykaops
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CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:48 pm

This was posted elsewhere and thought a lot of the airnutters would enjoy the video. It shows the amazing capacity of the CL415 and that in fact the foam injection system onboard the CL415 does indeed generate a large volume of firefighting foam.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151789402296070
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:10 pm

Very good aim!
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prosa
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:23 pm

Using an air tanker makes sense. The Trans-Labrador Highway is an almost unbelievably isolated route, with one stretch of 300 km between settlements of any sort. It might well have taken hours to get any fire engines to the crash scene. I'm guessing that the police didn't just let the truck burn itself out because they were trying to save its cargo.
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Quantos
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting PROSA (Reply 2):
Using an air tanker makes sense. The Trans-Labrador Highway is an almost unbelievably isolated route, with one stretch of 300 km between settlements of any sort. It might well have taken hours to get any fire engines to the crash scene. I'm guessing that the police didn't just let the truck burn itself out because they were trying to save its cargo.

I believe what they may have wanted to avoid is the fire spreading to the forest.
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asctty
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:19 pm

Absolutely amazing footage. Thanks for the link.
Some other countries could perhaps learn form this?
 
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cjg225
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:14 am

Thanks for the post. That was really impressive. I wish the video was a bit longer so as to catch some more comments, if any, by people there.
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asctty
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:15 am

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 5):
Thanks for the post. That was really impressive. I wish the video was a bit longer so as to catch some more comments, if any, by people there.

I agree. Does anyone know if the fire was actually extinguished?
 
PHX787
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:03 am

That was perfect timing!
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bristolflyer
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:56 pm

I wonder if there was any further to damage to vehicles getting hit by that much water so quickly.
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AApilot2b
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:25 pm

Very cool video. Does anyone know where this plane was flying out of (where it was based)?
 
3ingreen
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:09 pm

At this time of year the province strategically positions their fleet of water bombers to accommodate quick response to forest fires.....this year there have been some serious ones in Labrador and it's quite likely that this aircraft was in the area anyway.....if it wasn't actively engaged in a fire fight, it is probably stationed in Goose Bay ......being hit with that wall of water is serious business and the standard operating procedure is to not be in the way when it drops it's load, as you could easily be killed by that force ......these bush pilots are experts in their aim
 
prosa
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:44 pm

I wonder if there was any further to damage to vehicles getting hit by that much water so quickly.

I would imagine that the truck and the road grader were both write-offs, so it wouldn't matter.
According to a news report I read about this incident, the man taking the video (the foreman of a road crew) stopped it rather abruptly because he wanted to shield his phone from getting wet. Can't say I blame him.
One interesting thing is that although the Trans-Labrador Highway runs through some extremely remote terrain, this crash happened only about 30 minutes outside the town of Churchill Falls. Had it been much closer it probably would have been quicker to dispatch a regular fire engine rather than wait for the water bomber.
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bristolflyer
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:46 am

Quoting PROSA (Reply 11):
I would imagine that the truck and the road grader were both write-offs, so it wouldn't matter.

Yeah I was just interested to see what sort of damage that amount of water would do to a vehicle - or a person for that matter.
Fortune favours the brave
 
chrisair
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:32 am

Quoting PROSA (Reply 11):
According to a news report I read about this incident, the man taking the video (the foreman of a road crew) stopped it rather abruptly because he wanted to shield his phone from getting wet. Can't say I blame him.

It seems to be a different video than what I saw before--the video up there now is longer and the camera guy doesn't seem to get very wet.
 
rcair1
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:13 pm

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 12):
Yeah I was just interested to see what sort of damage that amount of water would do to a vehicle - or a person for that matter.

Significantly less than the accident.

Quoting asctty (Reply 6):
I agree. Does anyone know if the fire was actually extinguished?

I doubt it was extinguished. I'm sure the fire was knocked down and spread limited, but rarely do we get full extinguishment from an air drop - even a bucket drop on a burning jackpot in a forest. The goal is usually to limit spread and potential.

In my experience, car fires can be pretty tough to get fully out. Knock down can be easy - but putting out enough that you are willing to put it on a tow truck and drive it down the road without risking a re-kindle due to the wind of driving can be real tough.... and tow truck drivers are pretty picky about a vehicle on their truck starting back on fire (silly gooses....).
Cars are full of nooks and crannies and burnable stuff tucked away. The water from the drop would not have gotten in all those places. I've had a hard time getting it out when you have a hose you can direct or bounce. Then add things like magnesium in cases... can be a hoot.

Went to a vehicle fire couple years ago - pickup on fire in the middle of the road. Owner was dumping dirt on it with a backhoe - nice thought but it made it hell to get it out.

While the drop was impressive looking - probably 90% of the water did not land on fire. It did create a nice barrier against spread which was likely the goal.

I'm sure it did a great job of limiting spread and maybe even getting to the point where the remaining fires could burn themselves out.

I've called in airdrops on car fires - but smaller aircraft and we dropped on the exposure, not the car, i.e. the forest by the road. (In fire fighting terms, and exposure is something that can be or is ignited as a consequence of the main fire. If you have a structure fire - the house next door is an exposure. If it catches fire - it is an exposure fire.)

Quoting PROSA (Reply 11):
One interesting thing is that although the Trans-Labrador Highway runs through some extremely remote terrain, this crash happened only about 30 minutes outside the town of Churchill Falls. Had it been much closer it probably would have been quicker to dispatch a regular fire engine rather than wait for the water bomber.

I don't know the protocol for Canada - but when we have 1st strike tanker pre-positioned, the contract requires they are off the ground very quickly. I can call for a SEAT strike from a nearby airport (30 miles) and it will usually beat my engines. Now - a SEAT is a lot smaller than what you saw and would not have done any good on this fire - but it may be that they operate these under the same kind of ready response like our SEAT's. If stationed at a nearby airport - it could have been there very quickly.

If the aircraft was already airborne on another fire - then diversion could be even more rapid.

If I were to guess - this drop was made quickly while ground forces were enroute.

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 12):
Yeah I was just interested to see what sort of damage that amount of water would do to a vehicle - or a person for that matter.

A drop like that is a real hazard to a wildland fire fighter - but not so much from the water, but from debris knocked about by the water. Remember - usually this kind of a drop is done on a forest. The water can break branches, even knock down trees - and that can be very dangerous for a fire crew caught in it. We train to lay on the ground, face down, parallel to the drop direction clutching our helmet to our heads. Tools and stuff we carry are placed 'downstream' from the drop so they do not become projectiles.

In this case - given no debris - you'd get really wet and maybe be knocked about.

BTW - I've been dropped on by a SEAT more than once. In that case, it is more like a mist of retardant - you get covered with red stuff.
(SEAT = Single Engine Air Tanker - think crop duster).
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jumpjet
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:45 pm

I heard the truck driver drowned!      
 
KBJCpilot
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:06 pm

About 10 years ago I was driving in Oregon and came across a semi truck hauling a load of recycled cardboard that was engulfed in flames. The local fire department had the freeway closed down which meant that I was stuck waiting for the road to reopen.

The truck was really burning and threatening to catch the trees and dry grass next to the road on fire when I saw a Carson Helicopters S61 appear and drop a load of water from its bucket directly onto the flaming truck. He flew to a nearby river and scooped up another load and repeated the process 5 times. He then started watering down the vegetation next to the highway so the fire wouldn't spread. In all, he made 10-12 drops of water in less than 10 minutes.

What had taken the local fire department 15 minutes took him about 5. Sadly, this helicopter crashed a few years ago in northern California killing the pilot and most of the wildland firefighters riding in back.
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ual747den
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:39 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 14):
In my experience, car fires can be pretty tough to get fully out. Knock down can be easy - but putting out enough that you are willing to put it on a tow truck and drive it down the road without risking a re-kindle due to the wind of driving can be real tough....

Really? Car fires are not usually a big deal to get out, if the car is on the roadway and there isn't much around it it's usually a quick easy call where mop-up takes more time than actually putting the fire out. I have really not experienced what you describe at all. In pretty much every case by the time a tow has arrived the car is ready to be loaded and moved.
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rcair1
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:56 am

Quoting ual747den (Reply 17):
Really? Car fires are not usually a big deal to get out, if the car is on the roadway and there isn't much around it it's usually a quick easy call where mop-up takes more time than actually putting the fire out. I have really not experienced what you describe at all. In pretty much every case by the time a tow has arrived the car is ready to be loaded and moved.

Guess we've had different experiences. Perhaps it has to do with response time. We operate in a rural area where response time to the scene is typically much longer that in a urban area. Urban fire departments try to have a 4 minute max response time per NFPA - I think it is 4 anyway. No way we are going to do that in anything but the best case. It can be a 45 minute code 3 run to scene from a station. That may mean I see more fully involved fires that you have seen. Sure - I've been on car fires that were contained and extinguished quickly. But I've been on more that extended and took quite some time.

Funniest one I've ever been on was the watermelon fire. Car started fire (at the carb) at the top of a major hill. On arrival it was out - but the hood was back down. Pulled the hood up and, low and behold, there was a watermelon smashed down over the carb. Story was a passerby saw it - had a watermellon in a cooler and smashed it down on the carb then closed the hood. Worked quite well and was a real hoot.

Another fire - same place, came up on a truck pulling a trailer with 10 tons of hay. They had gotten the trailer disconnected and pushed the truck away, but the truck had an aux fuel tank in the bed (aftermaket) and we had 2 riverlets of burning diesel running down the road in opposite directions (the truck was at top of a hill with 12% grades both directions. Truck was also fully involved, including stuff in the bed by that tank. It was quite a show and took quite a time.

Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 16):
The truck was really burning and threatening to catch the trees and dry grass next to the road on fire when I saw a Carson Helicopters S61 appear and drop a load of water from its bucket directly onto the flaming truck.

Makes sense - helicopters are much more surgical than fixed wing. We used them a lot for struction protection work during High Park. Those sky cranes are really awesome machines.

I've had the experience with loosing a ship. Was coming home one day listening to traffic on a nearby fire and heard a ship make a drop - then silence. I had worked with the pilot a number of times - was great. They determined he probably got in a descending ring vortex and could not pull out. Tough day. Tough year. We had lost a young boy (many of our kids when to school with him) the week before in an accident where a crane boom failed and fell on him. We had had another fatality - medical - just before. We had also just participated in a LOD death funeral for a neighboring department. We had a bit of a rough time.... Brought in a critical stress team.
rcair1
 
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ual747den
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:15 am

rcair1,
That makes a lot of sense, average response time for the department my experience comes from is 4:30 with a city max of 5:30 so if you are running a 45 min code 3 I would imagine things look much different and feel really sorry for the medical emergencies in your area!!! I guess that's what you have to expect living in an area like that. Anything coming in from the county requiring more than a 10min response time that's a Delta medical would automatically trigger an Air Life standby in this area also so it sounds VERY different!
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seahawk
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RE: CL415 Airtanker Drops On Highway Crash

Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:21 am

Water drop makes sense to stop the fire spreading. It is all about limitating the potential for the fire to grow. Soacked gras with foam on it won´t ignite as easily as dry gras near a road.

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