factsonly
Topic Author
Posts: 2817
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:39 pm

Late last year BA opened two new short-haul routes out of LHR to LBA and RTM.

Some A.netters believed these routes to be so-called 'slot-sitters', where BA operates the routes purely to maintain certain slots at LHR at the lowest possible cost. Others think BA to be genuinely interested in these two markets for both O&D and/or feeder purposes.

Well, it is perhaps time to consider BA's performance - thus far - on these two routes in 2013.

BA SCHEDULE:
- LBA is operated 20x/week with A319/A320 aircraft.
- RTM is operated 19x/week with A319/A320 aircraft.

PASSENGERS:
Over the period January - July 2013 BA carried the following number of passengers on these routes:
- LBA = 65.668 pax
- RTM = 67.337 pax

Average Passenger load factor / Flight (estimate)
- LBA = 58.6 pax
- RTM = 63.3 pax

What do A.netters think? Is BA 'slot-sitting' or are these routes genuine new markets for BA??

www.caa.co.uk
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1208
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:49 pm

I believe the LBA service was reduced from 4 to 3 a day in March so the averages may not be correct
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 1064
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:56 pm

The Rotterdam flights are often available a day beforehand for £70 so I'm guessing they don't make a huge deal of money. I read on another thread that BA are considering launching LCY-Rotterdam so maybe it will change.
 
flycro
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:37 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:54 pm

ZAG was also launched or relaunched at the same time. How's this route doing?
 
thijs1984
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:41 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:11 pm

The average figures for Heathrow-Rotterdam are as follows:

- Dec. 2012 = 5.962 or on average 45 pax/flight
- Jan. 2013 = 6.392 or on average 36 pax/ flight
- Febr. 2013 = 7.139 or on average 42 pax/flight
- March. 2013 = 8.425 or on average 46 pax/fllight
- April. 2013 = 10.370 or on average 63 pax/flight
- May. 2013 - 12.826 or on average 75 pax/flight
- June. 2013 = 10.868 or on average 68 pax/flight
- July. 2013 = 11.317 or on average 67 pax/flight

I hope that they find the way up again soon.

It would be interesting to see the average figures for LHR-AMS per airline. i think the new route is doing quite well given the economic circumstances.
So my conclusion is that the RTM-LHR will work. Just give it some more time. It would be strange to leave one of the most densely populated parts of Europe (abt 5 milllion residents in a radius of 50 km around RTM) the market should be there.

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 2):
I read on another thread that BA are considering launching LCY-Rotterdam so maybe it will change.

just rumours only as for now. BA cityflyer has slots in Rotterdam as well. But that's on top of the BA slots they already have, keep in mind that RTM is also very slot restricted. It would be strange to grant BA unused slots which could be used by other airlines. So for the moment i would not think that BA would drop LHR-RTM in the near future, or even at all. And the LCY-RTM will be added to replace Cityjet.
Furthermore, the equipment (Saab2000) currently planned for LCY-RTM is not sufficient enough to replace the LHR-RTM route.

[Edited 2013-08-16 14:18:52]

[Edited 2013-08-16 14:20:23]
 
thijs1984
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:41 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:15 pm

Quoting flycro (Reply 3):
ZAG was also launched or relaunched at the same time. How's this route doing?

In July, 15.251 passengers flew the route. however i dont know by heart how many airlines serve this route.
 
anstar
Posts: 3180
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:30 pm

It does take a while for new routes to gain traction... I believe the LHR-ICN route started with low loads and hopefully it steadily builds up as well.
 
AT
Posts: 892
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:48 pm

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
Some A.netters believed these routes to be so-called 'slot-sitters', where BA operates the routes purely to maintain certain slots at LHR at the lowest possible cost. Others think BA to be genuinely interested in these two markets for both O&D and/or feeder purposes.

Is 'slot-sitting' legal in the UK? I suppose either way, it's hard to prove that an airline is flying a route purely to save a slot.


And are airlines allowed to rent out slots short-term? So for example, if I had five slots a day and wanted to lease one out for a year- could I do so independently, or would it have to be approved by BAA or whichever airport authority was involved?
 
anstar
Posts: 3180
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:58 pm

Quoting AT (Reply 7):
Is 'slot-sitting' legal in the UK? I suppose either way, it's hard to prove that an airline is flying a route purely to save a slot.

QF flew some LHR-MAN flightline flights a few years back to slot sit... so it does happen.
 
cornishsimon
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:10 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:46 pm

So if LCY-RTM is planned for an S2000 does that mean a 2nd Saab from eastern or are they looking at moving the S2000 off the current DUS & ABZ ?


cs
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4675
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:56 pm

I would give DUS six months max, Lufty couldn't make that work and they tried every which way!
 
by738
Posts: 3060
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:47 am

LBA won't be about in a few years either when the lure international long haul comes calling, especially with those loads.
 
viscount630
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:52 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:10 am

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
Late last year BA opened two new short-haul routes out of LHR to LBA and RTM.

How soon they forget...... That should be REopened! BKS/Northeast and BMA served LBA-LHR very successfully for many years since the 50s!
RIP Dan-Air. Where the Secret was SERVICE.
 
SKAirbus
Posts: 1545
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:58 am

Quoting thijs1984 (Reply 4):
So my conclusion is that the RTM-LHR will work. Just give it some more time. It would be strange to leave one of the most densely populated parts of Europe (abt 5 milllion residents in a radius of 50 km around RTM) the market should be there.

Rotterdam/Den Haag may have a huge population BUT it has very fast connections to AMS, which is why RTM isn't really a huge player. From Rotterdam to Schiphol by train takes about 30 minutes, which is the same as from LGW to London Victoria.

I've only ever flown into RTM once (with BA from LHR actually) and it was a nightmare... Arrived and there was no public transport and I had to wait AN HOUR for a taxi because there was such a large queue and so few cars.

At least with AMS the public transport is good, even to Zuid Holland. I'll never use RTM again.
Base: BRU
 
thijs1984
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:41 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:24 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 13):
Rotterdam/Den Haag may have a huge population BUT it has very fast connections to AMS, which is why RTM isn't

That is if the trains run properly, but that's by far not always the case.
For most locals it takes less time to reach RTM airport rather than reaching the central station in Rotterdam. and the 30 minute train service is very expensive compared to the normal train service which takes over one hour to reach Schiphol. And the 30 minute train service is subject to reservations which make it notorious unflexible.
And I bet it works the other way around as well. We receive more and more passengers via the LHR-RTM route for the shipping business and they are very statified with the route.

The main reason why Rotterdam is't a player of more importance is due to political counteraction and KLM not wanting any competitiors in their backyard.
After WWII, the Dutch national airport was projected in Schieveen, with is just a few kilometers North of of current RTM, as this airport could serve the Netherlands and the port of Rotterdam at the same time. The runway layout kind of looked like current layout of AMS. But a strong lobby from Amsterdam prevented these plans to materialize. this was good for the city of Amsterdam. but for the whole of the Netherlands it could be considdered as a missed chance. One should always have to combine seaports and airports as much as possible.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 13):
I've only ever flown into RTM once (with BA from LHR actually) and it was a nightmare... Arrived and there was no public transport and I had to wait AN HOUR for a taxi because there was such a large queue and so few cars.

That's very odd. There is a bus service to the central station every 10-15 minutes on weekdays and every 20 minutes in the weekends.
And there is also a shuttle service to the subway station at the east end of the airport which runs mainly on passenger demand.
Don't know where your final destination was?

[Edited 2013-08-17 04:12:11]

[Edited 2013-08-17 04:13:30]

[Edited 2013-08-17 04:17:05]
 
shamrock321
Posts: 714
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 7:27 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:01 am

DUB and BHD are new aswell, any info on how they are performing?
 
gkirk
Posts: 23398
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:05 am

Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 15):
DUB and BHD

I wouldnt call them new...just continued ex bmi routes.,
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
shamrock321
Posts: 714
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 7:27 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:10 am

Well they are new, as BA didn't operate them before. Regardless any info on how they are performing? How about IBZ, ALC, HAJ?
 
flywrite
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:56 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:20 pm

Quoting viscount630 (Reply 12):
BMA served LBA-LHR very successfully for many years since the 50s!

I believe BMA only started the LBA-LHR route around 1980, and that it was a British Airways route previously. Happy to be proved wrong.
 
jonnywishbone
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:30 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:35 pm

Having become a reasonable regular on the LBA flights, I can say that the move to T5 made a HUGE difference, T1 was simply awful and full of delays.

Saying that we are still only at 70-80 pax a flight in the morning and evening and that ridiculous 21:00 departure to LHR had 5 on last time I was on it!!
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4675
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:50 pm

The test of a slot sitter is whether LBA gets a night stopper. I don't see it being viable without one, current times are less than optimal.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:22 pm

The ideal slot-sitting route is short as that minimises fuel cost. So here is a list of actual routes operated by BA from LHR and some alternatives not operated by BA both with their Great Circle distances:

Routes operated:

LHR-MAN: 151 miles
LHR-LBA: 173 miles
LHR-RTM: 213 miles
LHR-CDG: 216 miles
LHR-BRU: 218 miles
LHR-ORY: 228 miles

Routes not operated:

LHR-BHX: 87 miles
LHR-BRS: 98 miles
LHR-CWL: 125 miles
LHR-LPL: 163 miles

However if you need some slot sitting routes there are other factors (apart from or in addition to distance) that would influence choice. Not least of these is the media criticism that would result from selecting ultra-short routes (like LHR-BRS or LHR-BHX) and the opportunity to actually assess a new route (that could apply in this case to both the service to LBA and to RTM).

It therefore seems to me that it is possible that we shall never know if, for example, the RTM flights were slot-sitters. This is because they could have been implemented as slot-sitters, proved successful and therefore upgraded from slot-sitting to viable route and therefore retained. Even passenger numbers will not offer proof one way or the other. A relatively small number of passengers with the majority transferring at LHR into the premium cabins of long-haul flights could be much more profitable than flights completely full of O&D passengers travelling on low-yield tickets.,
 
Andy33
Posts: 2539
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:26 am

Quoting AT (Reply 7):
Is 'slot-sitting' legal in the UK? I suppose either way, it's hard to prove that an airline is flying a route purely to save a slot.


And are airlines allowed to rent out slots short-term? So for example, if I had five slots a day and wanted to lease one out for a year- could I do so independently, or would it have to be approved by BAA or whichever airport authority was involved?

Heathrow has a use-it-or-lose-it policy which requires a slot to be physically used at least 80% of the time in each IATA season for which it is valid. Slots are purely for takeoff and landing at Heathrow, not linked to any particular routes.There is one exception to this rule, the slots that BA was required to give up as unfair competition remedies when it took over bmi. These are restricted to the specific routes on which bmi competed head to head with BA. Currently 9 pairs of these slots are being used by VS (subcontracted to EI) on LHR-ABZ and LHR-EDI. They also operate LHR-MAN using their own slots that had been leased out prior to launching the route. bmi had withdrawn LHR-MAN before the takeover. Leasing is quite normal.

In the past there have been really blatant cases of slot-sitting - BA flew LHR-CWL without offering tickets for sale! CWL is a major BA maintenance base so there would have been empty flights in any case, just not at those times of day. I think QF once subcontracted an ATR42 as the cheapest way it could retain a LHR slot until it rejigged the timetable.

The general view is that BA bought bmi for the slots, and that they wanted them mainly for longhaul expansion. bmi at the takeover date only had two longhaul aircraft, A330s, non-standard for BA, so their leases were not continued, and one of them was sufficiently problematic that it is now being parted out. So there was a heavily loss making set of shorthaul routes, and a fleet of A320 series aircraft. BA had new longhaul planes on order, and these are now arriving though some are intended to replace the oldest longhaul 767s and 744s. No doubt if the 787s had started arriving on the dates they were ordered for, some of the bmi slots would have gone to longhaul immediately. As it is, the A320 series are using the slots in order to keep them available until there are enough extra longhaul aircraft.
 
factsonly
Topic Author
Posts: 2817
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:53 am

Quoting andy33 (Reply 22):
As it is, the A320 series are using the slots in order to keep them available until there are enough extra longhaul aircraft.

So are you saying that BA routes like LHR-LBA and LHR-RTM will disappear again in due course?

And could this explain the rumour that BA will operate LCY-RTM through BA Cityflyer, once the LHR-RTM route is cancelled?
 
Andy33
Posts: 2539
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:09 am

I don't have inside knowledge but it's widely believed that this is exactly what will happen. I'm sure if either of these routes proved wildly successful either in O&D traffic or in providing feed, especially premium class feed, to long haul then no doubt they'd keep their LHR slots, but certainly on the Rotterdam figure in this thread, a move to LCY would make sense.
 
thijs1984
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:41 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:44 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 23):
And could this explain the rumour that BA will operate LCY-RTM through BA Cityflyer, once the LHR-RTM route is cancelled?

the latest "news" (to be confirmed officially ) on this one is dat LCY-RTM will start as from 27th January with a Saab2000, and the route will be upgraded to a ERJ170/190 as from the summer schedule, BA's LCY-RTM will rotate 5 times per working day and 2 rotations in the weekend days.
BA will remain on the LHR-RTM route with 2 or 3 rotations per day. So for the time being they remain commited. LHR-RTM is a completely diffrent market than LCY-RTM.
Recently the dutch spokesman of BA said in an interview that BA is planning to increase it's marketshare in the Netherlands, so it looks like they aren keeping their word.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 20):
It therefore seems to me that it is possible that we shall never know if, for example, the RTM flights were slot-sitters. This is because they could have been implemented as slot-sitters, proved successful and therefore upgraded from slot-sitting to viable route and therefore retained. Even passenger numbers will not offer proof one way or the other. A relatively small number of passengers with the majority transferring at LHR into the premium cabins of long-haul flights could be much more profitable than flights completely full of O&D passengers travelling on low-yield tickets.,

Exaclty, the yield could be good, but thant something we don't know yet. I think BA has chosen the "slot sitters destinations" carefully, meaning that it are good destinations to remain in the timetable lateron, however maybe with an somewhat reduced / optimized schedule.
BA also needs feeders for the growing long-haul network I assume?

[Edited 2013-08-19 01:50:37]
 
AIR MALTA
Posts: 1789
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:45 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:04 am

BA looks like it wants to compete head to head with CityJet on its most important routes. Is there any chance we would see BA on the Antwerp-London route? That would be great as I have used that route many times with CityJet and it was a great alternative to Eurostar or flights out of Brussels, with minimum check in time of 10 minutes and free parking at the airport.

[Edited 2013-08-19 03:22:28]
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
cornishsimon
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:10 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:11 am

If cityflyer are about to expand do we think that there will be an aircraft order soon ?

Or are we likely to see the eastern S2000 use increase from the current 1 aircraft ?

cs
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4675
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:21 am

Slightly off topic but it does seem BA are now trying to kill off CityJet, perhaps they smell blood?
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:52 am

Quoting andy33 (Reply 22):
In the past there have been really blatant cases of slot-sitting - BA flew LHR-CWL without offering tickets for sale!

The flights you are referring to were not operated by BA but by KJ (British Mediterranean Airways) who were a BA franchise operator at the time but in which BA had no financial interest. The first such flight was operated on 1 November 2006 by A 320 G-MEDE using the call-sign LAJ005. They continued until 24 March 2007 when the last CWL-LHR flight was operated by the same aircraft flying CWL-LHR and using the call-sign LAJ008.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 23):
So are you saying that BA routes like LHR-LBA and LHR-RTM will disappear again in due course?

This is what BA CEO, Willie Walsh, said at the IAG Annual Shareholders' Meetin in Madrid on 20 June last:


"Their [BA's] next challenge is to turn former bmi losses into profit while maximising value from the 42 daily Heathrow slots that we acquired as part of the deal.

"The additional slots enable British Airways to manage its Heathrow slot portfolio more effectively and tailor its route network to destinations that have emerged as economic powerhouses. Flights to Seoul started last December and services to Chengdu in China will commence this September. About one third of the additional slots will be used to launch new longhaul routes, mainly to Asia, while the remainder will enable British Airways to re-enforce its shorthaul network."


One third of 42 is 14. So far there is the daily flight to ICN and the three-times-weekly flight to CTU. They use one-and-a-half weekly slots. So we have approximately 12.5 weekly slot pairs that are currently short-haul that Willie Walsh has told IAG investors are likely to be used for long-haul flight expansion once the necessary frames are delivered.
 
LJ
Posts: 5069
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:40 am

Quoting AT (Reply 7):
Is 'slot-sitting' legal in the UK? I suppose either way, it's hard to prove that an airline is flying a route purely to save a slot.

KL is doing this twice a day (though they'll probably argue that these flight are ordinary flights) at LHR.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 28):
Slightly off topic but it does seem BA are now trying to kill off CityJet, perhaps they smell blood?

I personally think that is more to do with BA wanting to get some (large) corporate contracts than finishing off Cityjet. Don't forget that the slots for RTM - LCY are held by AF, not Cityjet (they just operate the flights). If you want i.e. the Shell or Unilever contract, you do need to offer them RTM-LCY or else you can forget it. Therefore, it will be interesting if AF/KL/Skyteam can keep some corporate contracts are if we're going to see defections to BA/oneworld.
 
LX138
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:45 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:10 pm

BA are most certainly trying to kill off Cityjet, and sadly they are succeeding. The whole purpose on the expansion at LCY was to get their hands on the higher yield traffic that Cityjet had shown they could get. It would be nice to have both as major players going forward, rather than just BA.

I think if KL made LHR-RTM work for all those years then BA will be able to make it work.

Does anyone know how the regional French routes are doing? Angers etc?
StarWorld Team - The ultimate airline alliance
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:34 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 29):
One third of 42 is 14. So far there is the daily flight to ICN and the three-times-weekly flight to CTU. They use one-and-a-half weekly slots. So we have approximately 12.5 weekly slot pairs that are currently short-haul that Willie Walsh has told IAG investors are likely to be used for long-haul flight expansion once the necessary frames are delivered.

BA CEO Keith Williams has confirmed that twelve slot pairs will be used for intercontinental flights:


'BA acquired 42 Heathrow slots with last year’s purchase of short-haul operator BMI and has reserved 12 for intercontinental services, Chief Executive Officer Keith Williams said in an interview. The 214-seat 787-8s are well-suited to trialing destinations where initial demand may be modest.

“The 787s are ideal for startup routes,” Williams said, adding that the aircraft “gives new opportunities for long-haul flights” that would not have been viable with less fuel-efficient planes or the carrier’s larger wide-body models.'

More at:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...holes-using-12-heathrow-slots.html

I guess we will have to wait to see which short-haul services will be given up to implement these new long-haul flights.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4675
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:32 pm

Not quite sure on this, aren't the B788s a one for one replacement on the B763 fleet? Where's the expansion coming from?
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:53 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 33):
Not quite sure on this, aren't the B788s a one for one replacement on the B763 fleet?

In addition to the 787s BA have six 77Ws to be delivered over the next 15 months. The first of these, G-STBG, had its first flight yesterday (22 August). With the changed circumstances of the purchase of BD in April last year I hope we will see some adaptation of the original plan involving the shuffling of the 763/787/77W pack to maximise the advantages of the BD purchase.

Here it is worth noting that the two 77Ws scheduled to join the BA fleet on lease next summer were not ordered until there was a tentative agreement for BA to buy BD.
 
pegasus1
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:41 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:41 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 33):
Not quite sure on this, aren't the B788s a one for one replacement on the B763 fleet? Where's the expansion coming from?

BA has 14 763s configured for long haul flying against a firm order for 42 787s, so plenty of room for expansion there.
The remaining seven 763s are configured for short haul. As the 787s will apparently not be configured for short haul, the flights presently operated by 763s (predominantly ATH, IST and LCA plus some other shorter sectors) will presumably be operated by the A320 family, with increased frequency, when the 763s are retired, as happened when 763/777 twice daily to TLV were replaced by 3x daily A321.
 
sam1987
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:27 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:22 pm

Quoting jonnywishbone (Reply 19):
Having become a reasonable regular on the LBA flights, I can say that the move to T5 made a HUGE difference, T1 was simply awful and full of delays. Saying that we are still only at 70-80 pax a flight in the morning and evening and that ridiculous 21:00 departure to LHR had 5 on last time I was on it!!

Do you know if most people are longhaul connections or do they seem to be daytrippers?

Quoting jonnywishbone (Reply 19):
The test of a slot sitter is whether LBA gets a night stopper. I don't see it being viable without one, current times are less than optimal.

Agreed. Where do you suggest the early morning arrival slot at LHR would come from? Which European service could lose their night stop?

Quoting VV701 (Reply 32):
I guess we will have to wait to see which short-haul services will be given up

I would imagine it will be a cut of frequency rather than a cut of route altogether to provide room for longhaul growth.
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4675
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:19 pm

Quoting pegasus1 (Reply 35):
BA has 14 763s configured for long haul flying against a firm order for 42 787s, so plenty of room for expansion there.

I'm well aware of the current long/short hail split. What's the firm orders for BA's B787s by type? Google was not helpful and wiki's not looking accurate IMHO.
 
by738
Posts: 3060
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:16 pm

24 original order
8 x 787-8
16 x 787-9

18 confirmed options
12 x 787-10
remaining mix is unannounced
 
aamd11
Posts: 913
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 11:54 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:35 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 37):

I'm well aware of the current long/short hail split. What's the firm orders for BA's B787s by type? Google was not helpful and wiki's not looking accurate IMHO.

I thought it was 8x 788s and 16x 789s in the original order of 24. There are supposedly now 12x 78Js on order which takes the total to 36 frames of the 42 claimed to be on order. That leaves six unaccounted for... could be any type, I suppose.
 
LO231
Posts: 2227
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:29 am

I wish they'd come back to ANR, last time I flew from here to LGW was on a SH6, lol
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
1400mph
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 am

RE: BA Performance On New LHR Short-haul Routes

Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:44 am

Of course BA are slot sitting.

Purchasing BD was a 'long game' scenario however 'vital' !

It won't be forever as more 'suitable' replacement and top-up long-haul aircraft are in the pipeline and being delivered as we all discuss this.

It is certainly not a case of BA slot sitting with no plan (far from it) so it is not an issue. Merely sensible strategy.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos