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Independence76
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Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:37 pm

As the sun begins to shine on the potential of the A330-300X, it's already night for the A340 program.

The A330-200F has not been a huge success compared to the 777-200F and the A380-800F has been dead in the water for years. Airbus needs to step up its game in the logistics market beyond the A300/A310.

Former A340's just aren't selling very well to other operators and are having to go for cheap in order for them to be removed from fleets. I can't help but notice that the MD-11 had similar conditions near the end of it's (very) short lifespan as a mainstream passenger aircraft. Today, it's used by both FedEx, UPS, Aeroflot Cargo, and a number of other operators around the world as successful converted freighters.

One might argue that a four-engined freighter without a lifting-nose design feature would be less attractive, but this did not stop the MD-11 from becoming a successful cargo plane.

Will the A340-300, A340-500, and A340-600 have a future as converted freighters if Airbus were to make more money off of the type through a conversion program?
 
Viscount724
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:47 pm

I doubt any A340s will be converted to freighters. There are too many stored freighters already due to the weak cargo market that could easily be returned to service at much lower cost.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:54 pm

Well, the fact that the main deck floor doesn't sit level when the aircraft is on the ground makes freighter conversion an expensive proposition...look at Airbus's freighter conversion kit for the A330:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nick de Jonge Photography



This is just to make the aircraft sit level, and involves removing the nosegear and adding extra structure...

Reference:

A330 Freighter: Why The "chin?" (by KELPkid Feb 16 2010 in Tech Ops)

 
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KC135Hydraulics
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:31 am

Not to side-track the question, but what makes the MD-11 such a superior freighter when compared to an A340? Surely the operating economics and capabilities can be very simiar.
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queb
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:42 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):

It's not a conversion kit, it's OEM parts, available only for new build aircraft. The A330F has a special nose gear bay to lower the position of the landing gear.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:44 am

Quoting Independence76 (Thread starter):
Will the A340-300, A340-500, and A340-600 have a future as converted freighters if Airbus were to make more money off of the type through a conversion program?

Over the past five years Airbus has put forward proposals for a passenger-to-freighter conversion option for the A340-300, A340-500 and A340-600, but I do not believe any have gained any real interest in the market. Airbus originally considered starting their P2F program with the A340-300 because they believed the initial feedstock would be stronger than the A330-300. Within two years, however, they noted the interest was for A330-300 conversions and that program was moved forward in 2012.

In 2007 Bedek Aviation floated an A340-300P2F program, but that also never went anywhere. And then there is LCF Conversions idea to install elevators in the forward and aft cargo bays to allow cargo to be loaded via the normal belly doors without the need for cutting a new door into the fuselage. However, since you'd be limited to belly pallet dimensions, it is not a very effective use of volume so I really don't expect that idea to go anywhere.



Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 3):
Not to side-track the question, but what makes the MD-11 such a superior freighter when compared to an A340?

In terms of performance, the MD-11F offers move volume and more payload weight than the A340-300P2F. The A340-300F would offer more range, however not sure how important that is.

An MD-11F offers about 610m3 of usable volume compared to around 570m3 for the A340-300. An MD-11F can lift about 92t compared to around 70t for the A340-300. Design range for the MD-11F is 7200km compared to an estimated 9200km for an A340-300P2F.
 
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:49 am

Airplanes that have 4 engines are becoming a thing of the past on both passenger and freighter aircraft.
 
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hOMSaR
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:12 am

Does the fact that the MD-11 also sold as new-build freighters have any impact on its popularity for P2F conversions compared to the A340, which never had a new-build F variant?
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FedexL1011
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:34 am

I doubt it because if you have an A330 cargo plane yet why invest R&D in a potential design that runs on four engines when the 747-8 is having problems selling freighters and most airlines are going with 767/777/A330/757 freighters that can do the job of the older (even cooler looking) designs of the 20th century.

Sad to say cost consciousness and fuel efficiency has become the main thing airlines want not the ability to use big gas guzzling planes that are going to need to be in constant use or it wont make the airlines money.

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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:50 am

Well all of these comments are valuable for a new build airplane... but the economics of a used aircraft can be extraordinarily good.

As much as people say the A340-500/600's fuel burn is bad, its still extraordinary - its just bad relative to the 777-300ER's. The A340-300 always had good fuel burn, so that was never an issue.

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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:38 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 9):
Well all of these comments are valuable for a new build airplane... but the economics of a used aircraft can be extraordinarily good.

As much as people say the A340-500/600's fuel burn is bad, its still extraordinary - its just bad relative to the 777-300ER's. The A340-300 always had good fuel burn, so that was never an issue.

The issue comes down to number of airframes available for potential conversion. In the case of the -200 and -500, there probably weren't enough of them built to make the design, testing and certification of a conversion program worthwhile. There may be enough -300s and -600s to make it worthwhile for those types.
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b747400erf
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:04 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 9):
Well all of these comments are valuable for a new build airplane... but the economics of a used aircraft can be extraordinarily good.

Besides the fact you need to spend money on a conversation program, you also have to drastically change the A340 so it is not so nose down. But even if those were accomplished, the freighter market is highly competitive. With fuel costs 2x at least of a 2 engine airplane, how can you compete with the other established carriers?
 
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:15 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 9):
The A340-300 always had good fuel burn, so that was never an issue.

An A340-300P2F would indeed have good fuel burn, but an A330-300P2F would have even better fuel burn (likely by over 10%) with the same volume and almost the same payload weight. And chances are your stage lengths are not long enough where the extra 2500km of range the A340-300 offers.
 
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:16 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 11):
With fuel costs 2x at least of a 2 engine airplane, how can you compete with the other established carriers?

Where do you get the 2x factor from? it is more like 10% more (a 77W at 8t/hour and the 346 at 8.8t/hour total fuel burn).
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:03 am

4 engine planes are dinsosuars of the sky.
 
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sassiciai
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:35 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 14):
4 engine planes are dinsosuars of the sky.

I wonder how you define a dinosaur, might help me agree with you if you provided your definition

On both sides of the Atlantic 4-engined aircraft are still being produced, indeed one European 4-engined aircraft is still in development and its first customer delivery has yet to happen (the A400 to the French Air Force). Along side is the A380 in Europe, and the C130 and B748 in the USA

On top of that are the fleets of other 4-holers that will continue to soldier on for many years to come

There are still some routes that ETOPS aircraft are unable to fly direct (I'm not sure if one is South Africa to Australia or New Zealand) and are forced to fly indirect, adding significantly to the flight times

I think your claim is a tad premature, if it ever comes true at all!
 
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:55 am

The A340 is dead and it doesn't make any sense to convert to carry freight. When you have 767's and 777's that will hit the used market at the same time why would an airline choose to use an aircraft with more fuel burn that needs more modifications and there are less supply because it didn't sell as well as a passenger aircraft. In the cargo transport world the added range that an A340 would offer doesn't matter as much and deffenitly not enough to pay for the cost to convert those aircraft. The airlines who need the range can use the 747. It just doesn't make sense at all to spend the money to convert A340's. I am personally a huge fan of the A346 and would love to see it flying for years to come but it's just not going to happen.
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seahawk
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:15 am

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 15):
I wonder how you define a dinosaur, might help me agree with you if you provided your definition

On both sides of the Atlantic 4-engined aircraft are still being produced, indeed one European 4-engined aircraft is still in development and its first customer delivery has yet to happen (the A400 to the French Air Force). Along side is the A380 in Europe, and the C130 and B748 in the USA

On top of that are the fleets of other 4-holers that will continue to soldier on for many years to come

There are still some routes that ETOPS aircraft are unable to fly direct (I'm not sure if one is South Africa to Australia or New Zealand) and are forced to fly indirect, adding significantly to the flight times

I think your claim is a tad premature, if it ever comes true at all!

Military cargo planes aside - only VLA aircraft are built as 4-holers today and both sell rather poorly. And with the 777X it might be that in the future only the A380 will surivive as the only 4-engine airliner. And we will have to see how long the whale will survive. But without a doubt the 4.engine VLA need a certain development of the market. They can be killed if the fuel prices go up, they can be killed when the slot limitations are reduced.And they will be the first planes to go, when the airline industry hits another reccesion.
 
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:27 am

Quoting ferpe (Reply 13):
Where do you get the 2x factor from? it is more like 10% more (a 77W at 8t/hour and the 346 at 8.8t/hour total fuel burn).


There are no 777-300 freighters so I'm not sure the point of your comparison.

[Edited 2013-08-23 01:28:07]
 
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:51 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 18):
There are no 777-300 freighters so I'm not sure the point of your comparison.

Nor are there any A346 freighters, so he must be talking about the pax version....
 
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:42 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 19):

Nor are there any A346 freighters, so he must be talking about the pax version....

But the topic here is the ability of an A340 freighter to compete with existing freighters. So what's the point comparing fuel burn in that discussion to non freighters?
 
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:18 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 20):
But the topic here is the ability of an A340 freighter to compete with existing freighters. So what's the point comparing fuel burn in that discussion to non freighters?

It is using the closest available data compared todisprove your original point of 2x the fuel burn. A freighter conversion doesn't add that much fuel burn to go from 10% difference to 100% difference now doesn't it?
 
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seahawk
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:44 am

I think there are too many 767s and 777 (even A330) on the market to make the A340 conversion viable.
 
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:00 pm

How many MD11's are there left in the world and how many are on their very last legs? I am no expert here but I would GUESS; not that many left and a good percent of them really need to RIP. it is sad as I love her and I will never have another MD11 take-off again!

How many A340's are there flying today? And does Airbus still take orders for them?

Also, with FedEx's order of (how many 767's) what future awaits the 767 line? After 30 years she still has got some very useful life left before closing down the 767 program, I assume.
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chieft
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:17 pm

No, the A340 will vanish from the skies if passenger versions will be phased out sometimes.

The A330 is the killer and only some exotic operations will use A340s. Because of the nose landing gear situation, it is difficult - and thus expensive - to convert the A340. 2-holers are simply more economic. Sad, but that's the hard reality.
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Stitch
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:22 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 23):
And does Airbus still take orders for them?

No.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 23):
Also, with FedEx's order of (how many 767's) what future awaits the 767 line?

As the new tanker for the USAF, it should remain in production for decades to come.
 
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zkojq
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:34 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 11):
Besides the fact you need to spend money on a conversation program, you also have to drastically change the A340 so it is not so nose down.
Quoting chieft (Reply 24):
The A330 is the killer and only some exotic operations will use A340s. Because of the nose landing gear situation, it is difficult - and thus expensive - to convert the A340.

Or just use a jack which Airbus is developing for the A330P2F program.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...id-modifying-a330-p2f-nose-334182/
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jfk777
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:14 pm

Some A340 will probably reach the end of their useful lives, even as passenger jet. Their values will probably fall to such a low price that compared to A330 and 777 that it makes sense to operate them even with high fuel prices. Amortizing a 200 million dollar airplane still costs lots of $$$. A 2006 to 2011 A340-600 for 30 - 50 million is fiscaly attractive to some airlines out there.
 
DrColenzo
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:30 pm

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 15):
I think your claim is a tad premature, if it ever comes true at all!

Nope, I think seahawk is spot on and baring a few specialist military applications such as the A400, commercial 4 potters are mostly a thing of the past (I have stated here that I am not convinced by the longer term prospects for the A380/747-8 but that is for another thread, another time).

However, whilst I agree mostly that the A340 of all types is unsuitable for conversion to a freighter, I guess it depends on the cost-benefit, economics and bottom line for a freight carrier. By this, I am speculating that if the cost of A340 and a freighter conversion is substantially less than a new build A330F/777F then this would potentially make such a plane attractive assuming the long term extra fuel burn/lower payload costs are not too prohibitive.

That is something the MD-11 had, yes it burns more gas than a more modern aircraft but then it was ludicrously cheap secondhand and easy to convert to a freighter, Also, when the great MD-11 freighter conversion happened in the early 2000s, a good proportion of the airframes were less than 10 years old and under-utilised by the likes of American and Delta.

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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:40 pm

The CFM56 powered A340 struggles to climb on a hot day with a passenger load, suggesting it might not be the best performing freighter. The all cargo market is not huge, new build B77Fs have done well as have B748s, however only cowboy outfits buy second hand long haul aircraft for cargo nowadays. FedEx and UPS have gone down he new build path. The TriStar was not a succesful freighter in comparison to the DC10, the B744BCFs were the first to the desert when CX and SQ felt the market weaken and the B767 is marketed as a new build. The A340 is a very, very unlikely candidate as a heavy freighter. I mean who on Earth would place an order for more than a handful?
 
Ferroviarius
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:54 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 27):
Some A340 will probably reach the end of their useful lives, even as passenger jet. Their values will probably fall to such a low price that compared to A330 and 777 that it makes sense to operate them even with high fuel prices.

This is certainly an important issue. Specifically since 34?s do not offer a huge amount of parts, which could be re-used on other airplanes. There is ample supply of CFM56s for 34?s and the TRENT5?? cannot be used on any other aircraft.

But I still wonder whether re-engining the 342 or 343 with GTFs would make any sense.

Best,

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chieft
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:56 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):
The CFM56 powered A340 struggles to climb on a hot day with a passenger load, suggesting it might not be the best performing freighter. The all cargo market is not huge, new build B77Fs have done well as have B748s, however only cowboy outfits buy second hand long haul aircraft for cargo nowadays. FedEx and UPS have gone down he new build path. The TriStar was not a succesful freighter in comparison to the DC10, the B744BCFs were the first to the desert when CX and SQ felt the market weaken and the B767 is marketed as a new build. The A340 is a very, very unlikely candidate as a heavy freighter. I mean who on Earth would place an order for more than a handful?

Exactly, thanks for the analysis "on the point"
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:03 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 20):
But the topic here is the ability of an A340 freighter to compete with existing freighters. So what's the point comparing fuel burn in that discussion to non freighters?

Perhaps you can then inform us what four-engine plane you were referring to has twice the fuel cost of a two-engine plane (assuming similar capacity; comparing a 747-200F to a 757-200F doesn't count).

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 11):
With fuel costs 2x at least of a 2 engine airplane, how can you compete with the other established carriers?
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:18 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):
however only cowboy outfits buy second hand long haul aircraft for cargo nowadays.

What gives you that idea? FX still has agreements for 757s for conversion to freighters and have many in the pipeline for conversion as well.
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:43 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
I doubt any A340s will be converted to freighters. There are too many stored freighters already due to the weak cargo market that could easily be returned to service at much lower cost.

   By the time there could be an A340 conversion program, too few will be available with enough life to bother.

The A340 conversion will also have to compete with A330P2Fs.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 9):
but the economics of a used aircraft can be extraordinarily good.

Ok... Use an A330.  
Quoting gigneil (Reply 9):
As much as people say the A340-500/600's fuel burn is bad,

The issue is that a P2F conversion program needs more available frames than the A345/A346 will provide. The MD-11 conversion program certainly had a step up thanks to the factory built MD-11Fs. The A340 will need more done with the floors.

The only hope is the commonality with the A330 P2F program. It might be enough...

Quoting HomSar (Reply 10):
The issue comes down to number of airframes available for potential conversion. In the case of the -200 and -500, there probably weren't enough of them built to make the design, testing and certification of a conversion program worthwhile. There may be enough -300s and -600s to make it worthwhile for those types.

But the -300 and -600 would have to ride on the A330P2F program.

Since there is more interest in the A330P2F program, will the freight market recover enough before too many A340s are parted?   

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Ferroviarius
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:42 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Since there is more interest in the A330P2F program, will the freight market recover enough before too many A340s are parted?



But how meaningful - from an economic point of view - would be parting 34?s? They do not have so many components in common with other aircraft and their numbers are limited. Where, e.g., could one use a TRENT556 or 560 engine? The value of 34?s in parts would, hence, be comparatively small so that it, despite their larger fuel consumption, might be economically more meaningful to continue using them than getting rid of them.

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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:47 pm

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 15):
I wonder how you define a dinosaur, might help me agree with you if you provided your definition

Dinosaur: A large creature that could not adapt to its environment and through evolution died out.

A340: A large creature that could not be adapted to the economic environment of today and through evolution is going to die out. Eventually we could see that happen to the A340.
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:01 pm

4 Engines 4 Inefficient Fuel Burn!!!!
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thijs1984
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:28 pm

i agree to the point of view of many here in which we shall never see a freighter A340.

The only future the aircraft has is probably with some charter airlines. some may end up having a good life there, many others will be chopped up in course of the comming years.
 
asctty
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:54 pm

I suppose the real question in hindsight is what did the A340 actually bring to market? Certainly nothing in terms of significant performance over the A330 series surely. The A330 series seems to faring well in the freight/military sectors.
 
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:03 pm

Quoting asctty (Reply 39):
I suppose the real question in hindsight is what did the A340 actually bring to market? Certainly nothing in terms of significant performance over the A330 series surely.

The A340 had much longer range than the early model A330-300 and went into service almost a year before the early A333. The A330 only became a long-range aircraft when the A332 went into service in 1998, 6 years after the A340. And even then, the A340 still had a payload/range advantage over the A332. The A340 was also more capable from hot-and-high airports.
 
LimaNiner
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:15 pm

So maybe there's a future in markets that don't care about the fuel burn all that much, because they don't fly that frequently, and the initial cost of the frame is more important... i.e., private jets.  
 
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:01 pm

Quoting thijs1984 (Reply 38):
The only future the aircraft has is probably with some charter airlines.

BJ conversion too. Billionaires like the A340 BJ, Jet Aviation converted two A340 last year and at least another one this year.
 
bwvilla
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:50 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 33):

He said longhaul aircraft. FX's used 757s are not for longhaul use, but to replace 727s and similar range aircraft. Not sure that I agree with the description of other operators as "cowboys", but its true that all three of the major global integrators buy new aircraft for their intercontinental routes.
lhr-utc-lhr-sin-bru-cgn-sin
 
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Stitch
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:23 pm

Quoting Ferroviarius (Reply 35):
But how meaningful - from an economic point of view - would be parting 34?s? They do not have so many components in common with other aircraft and their numbers are limited.

The A340-200 and A340-300 should share enough non-engine parts with the A330-200 and A330-300 to make them worth parting out. I also imagine there are some parts in the CFM56-5C also common to the 5A and 5B.

If nothing else, they can also keep what A340-300s remain in passenger service going that much longer.

And while the A340-500 and A340-600 did makes changes to the horizontal stabilizer and wings / wingbox, I believe they have the A330-200's vertical stabilizer and much of the internal components should be common to the rest of the A330/A340 family.



Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 41):
So maybe there's a future in markets that don't care about the fuel burn all that much, because they don't fly that frequently, and the initial cost of the frame is more important... i.e., private jets.  

IMO, what A340-500s that are not scrapped / melted down will likely become business jets. I expected the same from the A340-200, frankly, but with yet another frame being scrapped I am guessing the parts commonality with the A330 makes them more valuable as parts donors.

A340-600s I expect to be pretty much parts donors and stock for other aluminum-based products.
 
airbazar
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:05 am

The A340 is such a terrible gas guzzling dinosaur, that the desert is full of these beasts awaiting their turn for the beer can factory  
 
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Stitch
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:48 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 45):
The A340 is such a terrible gas guzzling dinosaur, that the desert is full of these beasts awaiting their turn for the beer can factory.   

It burns between 10-15% more fuel than the A330-300 (flying about 20% longer stage lengths), which is not too terrible.

Heck, according to data provided by zeke, CX's A340-300s have the same fuel burn as their 777-200As (an average of 6900kg an hour).
 
DrColenzo
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:52 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 46):
It burns between 10-15% more fuel than the A330-300 (flying about 20% longer stage lengths), which is not too terrible.

Well, such figures would look very terrible indeed to an airline's accountants!

The only way such figures can be justified is if the airframe is paid for and the cost of a new frame with lower fuel consumption would be much higher than the fuel saving. However, If the annual aircraft payments + annual fuel cost is lower than continuing with the old airframe, then that will soon find itself in the desert waiting for beer can production.

Best and most wonderful example of this is the prolonged life of the DC-9 and DC-10 with NW, I once flew on a DC-8 that was at 6 years older than me - brilliant!
 
DrColenzo
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Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:26 am

RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:53 am

My bad, I meant DC-9, although a DC-8 would have been great, too.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Will The A340 Have An Afterlife As A Freighter?

Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:12 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 45):
The A340 is such a terrible gas guzzling dinosaur, that the desert is full of these beasts awaiting their turn for the beer can factor

Sold rather well for such a gas guzzler didn't it? Helped kill off the MD11 too.

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