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dlramp4life
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:20 pm

Well it appears I am biting my tongue now... I will admit I have said on this forum that DL will has no need for A321s and here we are now... Now that REALLY explains the lines painted at the airport. Also good news about the A330, the plane fits in really well with DL and see them making good out of the rest of the orders.
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:32 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 17):
BTW: Nice to see that many of the A321 for Delta will be build in Mobile, AL.

  

The GE for A330 surprises me! Can their current A330s be re-engined for commonality, is that doable? Or they're just prepapred to operate both?
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:34 pm

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 251):
The GE for A330 surprises me! Can their current A330s be re-engined for commonality, is that doable? Or they're just prepapred to operate both?

They operate 767s with differing engine types and several other heterogeneous subfleets, so I think operating different types in their A330 fleet will be OK with them.
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:36 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 252):
They operate 767s with differing engine types and several other heterogeneous subfleets, so I think operating different types in their A330 fleet will be OK with them.

Hmm yup good point, they're not afraid of things like that are they! One of the things I like about DL  
 
trex8
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:41 pm

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 251):
The GE for A330 surprises me! Can their current A330s be re-engined for commonality, is that doable? Or they're just prepapred to operate both?

Doable yes, cost effective probably not. DL could run a subfleet with no problems. While they dont have the E1 model, they have lots of CF6-80C2s and A2s already in the fleet.
Having a mixed fleet engine wise is no big deal these days especially when many operators are essentially "renting the engine by the hour" and the OEM is doing the maintenance.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:43 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 192):
Have you actually flown one? Do you have any understanding as to how they're configured? The 764 cabins are very current; lie-flats with aisle access in Business, AVOD and USB power throughout.

Yes, they are alright. But 5-10 years from now flying against 787s, 777s and A350s?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 188):
I highly doubt passengers at the gate are using smartphones and tablets to look up ship numbers on airfleets.net to see how old the plane they are flying on is.   

The condition and style of the interior is what maters to customers which is why airlines around the world do them rather then replace the airframe with a new plane with a new interior every five to ten years.

Do you think DL will upgrade the interiors once again? Delta did a thorough but minimalist retrofit, I don't see them doing another one, and that means these 767s will be showing their age in 5-10 years.

Customers don't use airfleets, they take note and choose to fly someone else next time.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:55 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 255):
Do you think DL will upgrade the interiors once again? Delta did a thorough but minimalist retrofit, I don't see them doing another one, and that means these 767s will be showing their age in 5-10 years.

They will probably replace the seats one more time. Of course seat covers and carpet may be replaced more often.

The cabin hardware (sidewalls, bins, ceiling, etc.) is all Boeing Signature Interior stuff that looks exactly like the stuff in the 777. It will look perfectly current 5-8 years from now. By the end of the aircraft's life, it will look a bit out of date, but not horribly so.

[Edited 2013-09-04 16:55:29]
 
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OA412
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:04 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 249):

Can you please stop posting about the 764. If you want to discuss the 764, please start a new thread. This thread is about DL's A333/A321 order.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
IADCA
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:16 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 157):
Because it is something that WILL NOT HAPPEN under any circumstance. This seems to be another Mayan calendar apocalypse scam in the making.

Perhaps given your predictive record on this very subject (DL fleet replacement, not the Mayan apocalypse) you should leave the forecasting to others?

Quoting spink (Reply 198):
DL is an intensely capex focused company in stark contrast to most other airlines which are much more opex focused. They can get away with this in some part because of their network (there are a LOT of 1-2 hour or less flights out of ATL) and their maintenance capabilities. Its also why they own such a large portion of their fleet compared to many other airlines. DL plans on roughly 30 year life cycles for their frames, and for a 30 year life cycle, owning is significantly cheaper than leasing.

Some are wondering why they didn't order any NEOs/MAXs but the reality is both command a premium and delta won't pay a premium.

It's certainly a different strategy than most carriers pursue, but it's true market economics at work.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 217):
No, but it would be very stupid of DL to get rid of them prematurely if they serve a legitimate purpose in the DL fleet. They make money for DL, and is more efficient than the 763ER and A332 on the routes that it serves (it is DL's second most efficient widebody in terms of CASM, only behind the A333). No wonder DL did not order the A332 instead of the A333; the A332 was never in the run in this recent order since it is a less efficient aircraft. Why would DL get rid of a such a fuel-efficient aircraft prematurely?

Perhaps if it wasn't premature? As in, the NPV of the assets to the company was less than someone else would pay for them? I realize this won't generate a happy response from you, but one significant reason the 764 is likely to stick around DL and UA until retirement is that there just aren't many prospective buyers for them, which depresses their market value and functionally reduces the decision with them to flying them versus parking them. They're good aircraft. Nobody says they're not, but it's pretty funny to see the lengths you're going to in an attempt to create your own reality. You're fighting a straw man, and actually fairly hilariously unsuccessfully. Have you ever seen a bird attack its own reflection?

Also, what is it about DL threads that seems to generate an inordinate number of these posts featuring vehement and unsupported opinions masquerading as facts?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:25 am

Quoting IADCA (Reply 258):
Perhaps if it wasn't premature? As in, the NPV of the assets to the company was less than someone else would pay for them? I realize this won't generate a happy response from you, but one significant reason the 764 is likely to stick around DL and UA until retirement is that there just aren't many prospective buyers for them, which depresses their market value and functionally reduces the decision with them to flying them versus parking them. They're good aircraft. Nobody says they're not, but it's pretty funny to see the lengths you're going to in an attempt to create your own reality. You're fighting a straw man, and actually fairly hilariously unsuccessfully. Have you ever seen a bird attack its own reflection?

Retiring them in 5-7 years from now before the 763ER is retired is definitely premature. The 764ERs are some of the newest 767s in the DL fleet, and have an efficiency advantage over the 763ER due to its lower CASM. It would be stupid for DL to retire them so quickly; the 764ER is not the total piece of crap that some make it out to be.
 
SXDFC
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:08 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 259):
Retiring them in 5-7 years from now before the 763ER is retired is definitely premature. The 764ERs are some of the newest 767s in the DL fleet

I really hate to sound mean, but you really should take the advice of some of your fellow a-net members and create you're own master thread about the 764, its really annoying to keep having to read your nonsense about this particular plane in every single DL thread..

Congrats to DL and Airbus! Looking forward to seeing the A321 in DL colors..
 
willzzz88
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:08 am

Can anyone here give me a summary of the reasons why DL chose GE for the engines versus P&W and RR? Especially RR as I heard RR is the technical leader in terms of performance and range for the A333 (RR engines on a A333 have the MOST range, this maybe a couple of years/months old). Does DL need the extra range from RR engines or does GE provide enough? What about fuel burn?

Also is there a range/fuel burn/performance difference between CFM and IAE for the A321's? What engines do AA have on their A321's?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:13 am

Quoting willzzz88 (Reply 261):
Can anyone here give me a summary of the reasons why DL chose GE for the engines versus P&W and RR? Especially RR as I heard RR is the technical leader in terms of performance and range for the A333 (RR engines on a A333 have the MOST range, this maybe a couple of years/months old). Does DL need the extra range from RR engines or does GE provide enough? What about fuel burn?

Also is there a range/fuel burn/performance difference between CFM and IAE for the A321's? What engines do AA have on their A321's?

Financing, most likely, since GE is one of DL's financers. Also, AA is getting IAE on its A321s, but CFM on the A319s.
 
tristan7977
Posts: 157
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:19 am

Delta ordering Airbus, finally?? Congrats, lets hope for the A350, and A320neo eventually.
Flying is my life. It's as if it were in my blood.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:20 am

Quoting willzzz88 (Reply 261):
Can anyone here give me a summary of the reasons why DL chose GE for the engines versus P&W and RR?

GE is one of DL's financiers and DL signed an engine maintenance agreement with GE.

DL is the launch customer for this version of the engine, so I expect they received a nice discount on the engines and the OnPoint maintenance agreement. GE claims the enhanced CF6-80E1 has lower operating and maintenance costs than the Trent 700 and PW4000. If true, that also probably helped GE offer a nice maintenance contract price.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:21 am

Quoting tristan7977 (Reply 263):
Delta ordering Airbus, finally?? Congrats, lets hope for the A350, and A320neo eventually.

God forbid. Let's hope for the 787, 737MAX, and 777X.
 
MD-90
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:25 am

Quoting spink (Reply 198):
DL is an intensely capex focused company in stark contrast to most other airlines which are much more opex focused.

No one should forget that it was Delta's crushing debt load of billions upon billions that forced it into bankruptcy.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 255):
Yes, they are alright. But 5-10 years from now flying against 787s, 777s and A350s?

Paid for 764s will certainly have a cost advantage against expensive 787s and A350s that come with debt service.
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:27 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 265):
God forbid. Let's hope for the 787, 737MAX, and 777X.

Well as someone said before:

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 12):
Luckily we as A-netters do not make the real decisions in the real world.  .

Enough said...
Life is encrypted, you are modified, Like a virus in a lullaby, Artificial till the day you die, silly programme, You're corrupted
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3517
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:36 am

This thread has turned into a 764 discussion and has very little to do with the original topic. It will be archived.

Any posts made after the lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.
Regards,
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
luckyone
Posts: 3865
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:41 am

Quoting texdravid (Reply 185):
has some good products, but the 748i debacle, the 788 teething pains, and not getting a real 757 replacement is sad. Having said that, the 333 and 388 as well as 321 aircraft are excellent and Boeing is just another American manufacturing company in slow decline.

See below.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 208):
Because Boeing doesn't have anything to offer for delivery in 2015.

Exactly. Delta needed an aircraft (a reliable one with no bugs preferably). Airbus had that. Boeing did not.

Something else to point out in regards to the engine selection. While not the identical engine, the GE engines are the same family of engine (CF6) that power many of Delta's 767 fleet.
 
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coronado
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:34 am

A321 as configured will be the MCO, TPA and RSW hauler from ATL, DTW, LGA and MSP replacing the older 757. The compact J cabin is the give away.
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973

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