Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
santos
Topic Author
Posts: 545
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:46 pm

TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:22 pm

According to portuguese media, TP is in final stages of leasing 2 new long haul aircraft.
TP officials said that when that is done, they are ready to launch MAO and BEL.
Article also mentions of 2 other smaller aircraft will be leased.

Anyone knows any more information on these leased a/c?
Any runways restrictions at MAO or BEL?


Sorry article is only in Portuguese.
http://www.presstur.com/site/news.asp?news=43895
 
worldrider
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:26 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:43 pm

i must say im quite impressed, 28% of all traffic between brazil an europe! With those two new destinations how many brazilian airports will TP be serving?
i guess the leased widebodies would be the A330s
 
User avatar
reffado
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:47 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:48 pm

I too would like to know the equipment, but if I may take a wild guess it will be two more A332 aircraft. They are in the process of fleet refurbishing and the new interiors on their widebody fleet is quite an improvement.
 
brunomelo
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:07 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:05 pm

How many people do they expect to board in BEL? I fly to BEL every other week (mostly out of CNF, but have done it aou of BSB, GIG and GRU), and know the flights in and out are constantly full. On the other hand an internetional link is a complete different story, and i really don´t think there´s demand for a direct flight to LIS or any other european destination. It might work if TP does LIS-MAO-BEL-LIS, but not a dedicated flight.
Be safe.
Bruno.
 
User avatar
reffado
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:47 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:12 pm

You have a good point, Bruno. Maybe they're trying to take on a market that previously was taken through other airports through JJ feed? Seeing as JJ will leave Star, they will no longer have partner feed, and may have decided to compensate with a direct flight. But then again, I'm no expert and am purely speculating  
 
brunomelo
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:07 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:17 pm

Reffado,
I have seen large groups of locals using CAY as their getaway to Europe. I don´t see portuguese people in Belém on a regular basis, but do see germans, dutch and french often, and i have been out for dinner and drinks with many foreign parties that i met in hotels. Most of them flew in via GRU or GIG, and Belém was one of the cities to be visited in Brasil. Most french people i met in Belém used CAY as a connecting airport.
Of course the business traveller will choose the direct flight, but i also don´t see large economic ties between BEL and LIS or OPO. While i do wish this flight to me successful, i don´t think it will.
Bruno.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7424
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:16 pm

doesn't TAP fly fom Manaus to Lisbon already ? don't they fly to 8 cities in Brazil ?
 
ipodguy7
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:44 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:12 pm

A quick check of wikipedia shows TAP flying to 10 current destinations in Brazil, with MAO and BEL, it rises to 12 Brazilian destinations.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
doesn't TAP fly fom Manaus to Lisbon already ? don't they fly to 8 cities in Brazil ?
GC Map of TAP Portugal Destinations
AA/DL/NW/CO/UA/US/B6/AS/AC/FI/NY/EI/BD/BA/AF/AZ/DY/SK/QF/JQ/JL
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:31 am

I guess that TAP could take the 6 youngest A332s that TAM is retiring. 2 would be used for expansion and the other 4 would replace the 4 tired A343s.
 
User avatar
reffado
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:47 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:54 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 8):

They could, but I doubt they would, since the A343s have recently been refurbished. Not a smart move in the slightest, to be honest, since they fly the same routes as the A332s, while burning quite a lot more fuel I would imagine.
 
brunomelo
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:07 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:53 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):

TP does not fly to MAO or BEL. I may be worng, but i don't think they ever did as a regular flight.
You all have a perfect weekend.
Bruno.
 
A388
Posts: 8010
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:46 pm

Talking about TP, what's the status of TP's take-over by the Synergy Group that owns Avianca?


Cheers,

A388
 
Azure
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:34 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:35 pm

Quoting Reffado (Reply 4):
Maybe they're trying to take on a market that previously was taken through other airports through JJ feed? Seeing as JJ will leave Star, they will no longer have partner feed, and may have decided to compensate with a direct flight.  

I agree with this analysis. The defection of JJ to OneWorld requires TP (and Star Alliance) to pursue expansion. Skyteam and AFKL in particular have been very aggressive in Latin America recently, mainly at the expenses of Iberia. As for Brazil alone, AFKL is TP main competitor with already a 17% market share. AF is to serve GRU with an A380 and to launch CDG-BSB next year. It also said it could open either Fortaleza or Salvador by 2016. Furthermore Gol (of which DL is a shareholder) is rumored to apply for Skyteam membership. AFKL and Gol have already a codeshare agreement but this might be further extended once AF serves BSB, Gol's main hub.

Brazil is a key market for TP. It is its second market after Europe but here Tap is facing more and more competition from the LCCs with which it can hardly compete because of a higher cost structure. TP cannot afford to loose significant market shares on its main intercontinental market (that certainly generates a large part of its revenue), especially when it is to be privatized.

TP has refrained from purchasing new aircraft to improve its debt ratio. This leasing agreement may be seen as a logical solution. I expect the two aircraft to be A330s.




Quoting A388 (Reply 11):
what's the status of TP's take-over by the Synergy Group that owns Avianca?

IIRC TAP's owner, the State of Portugal, turned down the offer. A new round of negotiations was to be launched this year.




Quoting brunomelo (Reply 5):
I have seen large groups of locals using CAY as their getaway to Europe. I don´t see portuguese people in Belém on a regular basis, but do see germans, dutch and french often, and i have been out for dinner and drinks with many foreign parties that i met in hotels. Most of them flew in via GRU or GIG, and Belém was one of the cities to be visited in Brasil. Most french people i met in Belém used CAY as a connecting airport.

Interesting. I was not aware that CAY was a gateway to Brazil as only Air Surinam flies CAY-BEL twice weekly with a 737-300 ! IIRC Air Caraibes withdrew from the route last year and Air Surinam took over. I was wondering how successful it could be but per your post it must be doing rather well.

[Edited 2013-09-06 09:37:27]
 
incitatus
Posts: 3386
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:37 pm

The economy of Belem is quite smaller than the economy of Manaus. I can't see BEL-LIS traffic potential beyond 2 x week and that is too infrequent a schedule. If TAP really wants to serve BEL they might go for a triangular route LIS-BEL-MAO-LIS. Belem used to be as large as Recife and Salvador in the beginning of the 20th century but now has fallen behind. BEL also has a glorious past as a PanAm station. Varig had a 707 GIG-MAO-BEL-LIS in the early 80s.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2977
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:29 am

Could BEL work if combined with SLZ?
What if MAO with somewhere else in South America, Star Alliance AV hub LIM perhaps?
After TP adds BEL and MAO, it just need to add POA and CWB and it could complete European non-stop/direct flights to most important cities in Brazil.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:51 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 14):
After TP adds BEL and MAO, it just need to add POA and CWB and it could complete European non-stop/direct flights to most important cities in Brazil.

TP already flies to POA.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10224
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:32 pm

Quoting Reffado (Reply 2):
I too would like to know the equipment, but if I may take a wild guess it will be two more A332 aircraft.

A333's would make more sense. The A333 is a better TATL aircraft, and it would allow for increased capacity in other routes currently operated with A332's.

Quoting Azure (Reply 12):
IIRC TAP's owner, the State of Portugal, turned down the offer. A new round of negotiations was to be launched this year.

Not any more. The privatization process has been halted indefinitely as a protest to the EU's 49% foreign ownership rule. In other words, the government of Portugal does not believe that they can get a fair market value for TAP if they are restricted to EU investors only. That makes a lot of sense if you ask me. This is probably why they are finally moving ahead with the fleet expansion which was long overdue.
 
brunomelo
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:07 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 16):
That makes a lot of sense if you ask me. This is probably why they are finally moving ahead with the fleet expansion which was long overdue.

That does make sense, and more so when considered that the eventual partners might not have the same interest, and want things to follow another direction.
You all be safe,
Bruno.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:25 pm

TP business plan is all about the feed to/from long haul markets. Their only way to continue to grow is by adding new markets. Hope they can add both MAO and BEL.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 8):
I guess that TAP could take the 6 youngest A332s that TAM is retiring. 2 would be used for expansion and the other 4 would replace the 4 tired A343s.

Would be good. They could not only start MAO and BEL, but look to markets such as IGU, EZE, MVD and BOG.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
lisbonbearuk
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:14 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:19 pm

My understanding was that as soon as they acquired the new aircraft, they would resume JNB and start possibly ORD or PTY to feed a major *A hub.

It'll be good to see what happens.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2977
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:52 pm

Quoting lisbonbearuk (Reply 19):
My understanding was that as soon as they acquired the new aircraft, they would resume JNB and start possibly ORD or PTY to feed a major *A hub.

LIS-JNB may even work without routing via MPM.
TP flying to CPT and/or DUR - non-stop, combined or as tag-on from MPM - is a different thing.

LIS-ORD may sound interesting specially if UA doesn't go for it. B757 might be slightly our of range for a LIS-ORD.
For some reason, I'd think LIS-SFO and LIS-PVD (narrow-body?) non-stop or via Azores may be more attractive.

It might look like a LIS-PTY would be to complement CM code-share with IB MAD-PTY (which isn't daily).
If TP wants to be creative a LIS-BEL-PTY code-share w/CM could cover both Europe-BEL and BEL-PTY (hub) traffic.
Give LIS-MAO a tag-on to either Star Alliance hubs BOG or LIM and voilà!
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3974
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:07 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 20):
LIS-ORD may sound interesting specially if UA doesn't go for it. B757 might be slightly our of range for a LIS-ORD.
For some reason, I'd think LIS-SFO and LIS-PVD (narrow-body?) non-stop or via Azores may be more attractive.

There is no market for LIS-ORD. If TP were to start another North American destination, it would probably be IAD or YYZ. IAD has the advantage of being a A* hub and having lots of government traffic from both the EU and the lusophone African counties. YYZ is A* hib and has a large Portuguese diaspora that provides lots of volume (albeit low-yield). ORD has and adds nothing...
 
VC10er
Posts: 4283
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:16 pm

Does anyone have pics of the new interior? I will be using TAP from GIG from now on... vs JJ and it has to be better than the LH business seat!

I love TAP's dedication to Red and Green.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3092
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:09 am

Speaking about Belem, it seems to be a great year for them taking into account that TAM already applied for slots to fly the BEL-MIA sector, twice a week from December.
I ignore about the traffic potential on TP LIS-BEL. Interesting times come ahead.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
airbazar
Posts: 10224
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:02 pm

Quoting lisbonbearuk (Reply 19):
My understanding was that as soon as they acquired the new aircraft, they would resume JNB and start possibly ORD or PTY to feed a major *A hub.

Don't see JNB happening. Too much pressure on JNB traffic from EK and TK, not just for TP but every other European airline that relies on connections to pay for the route. BA/LH/AF can fight the trend because they have a significant O&D market and those people are not going to connect as easily.
ORD has very little O&D traffic and huge competition to/from Europe. They already serve EWR for *A connections.
PTY? I don't see the point. There's virtually no traffic between LIS and Central America. Most if not all relevant connections at PTY can be had via MIA or CCS. I see much bigger fish to fry in Latin America alone, like EZE, BOG, or MEX. I also think that Asia is imminent as soon as the A359's start arriving.

As far as the fleet goes. I would like them to acquire A333's and use them to upgrade some A332 routes that need upgrading. Then use those A332's to start new routes. I would also like to see an order for A321NEO, to open up long and thin route to Africa, ME, MOW, BOS, PVD, etc.

[Edited 2013-09-08 06:07:20]
 
LJ
Posts: 5450
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:54 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 20):
It might look like a LIS-PTY would be to complement CM code-share with IB MAD-PTY (which isn't daily).

CM codeshares with AF/KL as well to Europe. Moreover, as airbazar points out, there is virtually no O&D and you'll need some in order to sustain a competitive frequency.

Personally I find MAO and BEL good destinations. I did a tour which started in Belem and went via Santarem to Manaus where we had a private "boat" for 5 days and went a national park which was virtually off limits for foreigners. The only problem with the tour was the flight to Belem and from Manaus. We went via GRU both times which added a lot of time. At the time there were rumours that MP would start Manaus (as an extension of PBM) because a Dutch touroperator bought a resort in the vicinity of Manaus and wanted a direct flights. This never materialised and the pax of the touroperator ended up flying via GRU or SSA).

BTW Unless things changed for the worse in the 10 years that past, both cities are still on my list to be revisited (to be honest I want to do the entire tour again). I liked Belem (and Marajó) very much.
 
LHLX
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:25 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:12 pm

What are the chances, with Airbus 321 neo, that TP resumes LIS-TLV service? They fly from LIS to EWR, MIA, GRU, GIG and these are good markets from Israel. Virtually every European carrier that flies to these cities has many TLV pax onboard. Surely 3-5 times a week TLV-LIS service could work out...
 
airbazar
Posts: 10224
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting LHLX (Reply 26):
What are the chances, with Airbus 321 neo, that TP resumes LIS-TLV service?

LIS-TLV is possible today with either A320 or A319, so if TP doesn't fly there I would imagine it's because they don't think they can make money. It's about the same distance as LIS-MOW which TP flies. Nevertheless, I would expect LIS-IST to be a higher priority route for TP, before LIS-TLV.
 
LJ
Posts: 5450
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:00 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
Nevertheless, I would expect LIS-IST to be a higher priority route for TP, before LIS-TLV.

Doesn't TK already serve LIS from IST?
 
User avatar
andrefranca
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:10 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:33 pm

Quoting brunomelo (Reply 3):
It might work if TP does LIS-MAO-BEL-LIS, but not a dedicated flight.

  

Quoting Reffado (Reply 4):
Maybe they're trying to take on a market that previously was taken through other airports through JJ feed? Seeing as JJ will leave Star, they will no longer have partner feed, and may have decided to compensate with a direct flight. But then again, I'm no expert and am purely speculating  

  

Quoting brunomelo (Reply 5):
I don´t see portuguese people in Belém on a regular basis

Whaaaaaaat? most of the brazilian-portuguese's passports we see here in MAO were issued by the consulate in BEL, we even make jokes such ash "I'm going to BEL to apply for mine too".

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 14):
What if MAO with somewhere else in South America, Star Alliance AV hub LIM perhaps?
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 20):
Give LIS-MAO a tag-on to either Star Alliance hubs BOG or LIM and voilà!

Both RG and AV tried the MAO-BOG but didn't work and had to be suspended, TAME also tried MAO-UIO had the same fate, the only standing strong to the date is gueeesss whooo??? = CM  

as I'm only 24 I don't have facts, but my bosses told me Transbrasil and VASP once had a MAO-somewhere in europe in the wee days...
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2977
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:41 pm

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 29):
Both RG and AV tried the MAO-BOG but didn't work and had to be suspended, TAME also tried MAO-UIO had the same fate,

What kind of LIS-BOG traffic could TP get, even if via MAO?
Not sure how attractive would be for MAO-Peru/Bolivia/Chile/Argentina O/D to fly via LIM if TP tagged-on LIM to LIS-MAO,
If neither BOG nor LIM are so attractive for a TP LIS flight, LIS-MAO-EZE might (9% off the most direct non-stop route).
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
brunomelo
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:07 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:51 pm

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 29):
Whaaaaaaat? most of the brazilian-portuguese's passports we see here in MAO were issued by the consulate in BEL, we even make jokes such ash "I'm going to BEL to apply for mine too".

Good night Andre!
I come to Belém every other week on business, and usually stay in the same hotels (Golden Tulip, Crowne Plaza ou Radisson Maiorana), and have seen portuguese people in Belém, but they are not the highest portion of foreign tourists. I doubt they come in bigger number than germans, french, dutch, and even north americans (these last ones are more frequent lately). I got here earlier today and asked the receptionist at the Golden Tulip what group of tourists are seen more often in this hotel, and she said just about the same thing i wrote before.
From what you say it seems MAO atracts more portuguese tourists than BEL... It also could be that the ones that come to BEL stay in other hotels, but the ones i mentioned are the top three (Hilton is VERY outdated!), and well located for tourists.
Be safe mate.
Bruno.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10224
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:19 am

Quoting LJ (Reply 28):
Doesn't TK already serve LIS from IST?

Yes. TK has been flying to LIS for a few years now.

Quoting brunomelo (Reply 31):
I doubt they come in bigger number than germans, french, dutch, and even north americans

There is no LIS-BEL flight so obviously I wouldn't expect that there would be a lot of Portuguese tourists there. However if you are seeing Germans, French and Dutch, that tells me that there is a market for TP since that fits right in with TP's Brazilian strategy of linking Europe to secondary Brazilian cities via LIS.
 
User avatar
andrefranca
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:10 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:47 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 30):
What kind of LIS-BOG traffic could TP get, even if via MAO?

That's a risky question, we don't have the same tax free thing you have in PTY but industries here are tax free, so we have lots lots lots of factories, but I doubt it could create traffic between MAO and LIM or BOG, I even find amazing RG and AV could stand the flights for a while, JJ did the same to CCS, it used to come from GRU, very few pax used to board in MAO, so the route was suspended as well, rumors that Conviasa was looking into a MAO-CCS-PMV extremely popular in the past I flew VASP on this route and they used to be packed, mainly now that 1 real = +- 14 bolivares on the black market.

CM is lasting because it's not everyday you can find an airlines with 99% flight on time average connecting you to 66 destinations in 29 countries.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 30):
If neither BOG nor LIM are so attractive for a TP LIS flight, LIS-MAO-EZE might (9% off the most direct non-stop route).

it would be an interesting route but EZE doesn't have the same appeal PMV or AUA or CUR have in north Brazil.

Quoting brunomelo (Reply 31):
From what you say it seems MAO atracts more portuguese tourists than BEL... It also could be that the ones that come to BEL stay in other hotels, but the ones i mentioned are the top three (Hilton is VERY outdated!), and well located for tourists.

Hey Bruno, I'm fine thanks and you?

haaammmm what I wanted to say is that there are a lot of children and grandchildren of portuguese here and in BEL.
 
Azure
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:34 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:59 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 16):
The privatization process has been halted indefinitely as a protest to the EU's 49% foreign ownership rule. In other words, the government of Portugal does not believe that they can get a fair market value for TAP if they are restricted to EU investors only. That makes a lot of sense if you ask me.

Thanks for the update. I can understand the logics. However you are implying that the Portuguese government is challenging the EU on this foreign ownership rule. Where do you get this information from ? - I have not been able to find any and would be interested to learn more -
As for the cap on airlines foreign ownership, the EU apparently is not opposed to change the rule but request the US to do the same, which is not likely to happen anytime soon...



Quoting airbazar (Reply 32):
However if you are seeing Germans, French and Dutch, that tells me that there is a market for TP since that fits right in with TP's Brazilian strategy of linking Europe to secondary Brazilian cities via LIS.

  . I am sure there is market. The region of Belem has a lot to offer and this is no real secret in Europe. Connecting through GRU or GIG imply a long and inconvenient backtracking. I do not see why a twice weekly service would not work.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10224
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:05 pm

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 33):
it would be an interesting route but EZE doesn't have the same appeal PMV or AUA or CUR have in north Brazil.

Humm, that's a provocative thought. TP flew to CUR for many years.

Quoting Azure (Reply 34):
Thanks for the update. I can understand the logics. However you are implying that the Portuguese government is challenging the EU on this foreign ownership rule. Where do you get this information from ? - I have not been able to find any and would be interested to learn more -
As for the cap on airlines foreign ownership, the EU apparently is not opposed to change the rule but request the US to do the same, which is not likely to happen anytime soon...

That's exactly what they are doing, challenging the EU. It's funny you bring in the US because it's not US companies who are interested in buying EU airlines, so I htink the EU is just using the US as an excuse to not allow the ME carriers to come in and take over the EU air market.
I only have the news in Portuguese:
http://www.publituris.pt/2013/09/06/...-de-privatizacao-da-tap-congelado/

Quoting Azure (Reply 34):
I am sure there is market. The region of Belem has a lot to offer and this is no real secret in Europe. Connecting through GRU or GIG imply a long and inconvenient backtracking. I do not see why a twice weekly service would not work.

I would guess 3x or 4x weekly at a minimum. That was TP's strategy in starting a lot of its Brazilian destinations. One airplane for 2 new cities, so if they are getting 2 new long haul aircraft, that still leaves 1 free  
 
Azure
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:34 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:19 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 35):
That's exactly what they are doing, challenging the EU. It's funny you bring in the US because it's not US companies who are interested in buying EU airlines, so I htink the EU is just using the US as an excuse to not allow the ME carriers to come in and take over the EU air market.
I only have the news in Portuguese:
http://www.publituris.pt/2013/09/06/...lado/

Thanks for the article ! I find it a bit odd they challenge the EC while negotiating an extension of their bailout plan, but that's politics.
As for US airlines not being interested in buying EU airlines, that is not true, we have just seen DL acquiring 49% of VS recently  
I am not sure the EU is using the US as an excuse here. I am under the impression that the EU has a more liberal approach than the US on this matter. After all, the foreign ownership rule could be modified in a way to allow US carriers to invest as much they see fit in EU carriers provided the reciprocity be true, thus excluding any third party (eg the ME3) from the agreement. This would come as a logical conclusion of the open Skies agreement. I believe the topic will be discussed in the general trade agreement currently under negotiation between the EU and the US. We will see  
Food for thoughts : US airlines hurt by lack of foreign cash



Quoting airbazar (Reply 35):
One airplane for 2 new cities, so if they are getting 2 new long haul aircraft, that still leaves 1 free

My thoughts too !  
If we take it for granted one of the aircraft will be deployed to Brazil where TAP needs to keep its market share, the destinations that can be speculated for the other aircraft are very open... It could to used to increase frequency on an already existing route too.
 
incitatus
Posts: 3386
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:59 pm

Quoting Azure (Reply 36):
If we take it for granted one of the aircraft will be deployed to Brazil where TAP needs to keep its market share, the destinations that can be speculated for the other aircraft are very open... It could to used to increase frequency on an already existing route too.

The new aircraft might as well be used to make Sao Paulo three times per day when the GRU expansion is ready. TAP could fly out of LIS 9:30 am, 2:00 pm and 11:00 pm with returns 3:00 pm, 7:00 pm and midnight.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
offloaded
Posts: 978
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:56 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:20 pm

I received an email from TP today advising me that the JJ codeshare will end 6 Nov.

I have noticed that several G3 fares are now interlinable with TP longhaul.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:35 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 37):
The new aircraft might as well be used to make Sao Paulo three times per day when the GRU expansion is ready. TAP could fly out of LIS 9:30 am, 2:00 pm and 11:00 pm with returns 3:00 pm, 7:00 pm and midnight.

TAP is not allowed to increase frequencies to GRU by the current bilateral agreement.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10224
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:12 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 39):
TAP is not allowed to increase frequencies to GRU by the current bilateral agreement.

True but TP has always had "special" privileges in Brazil. They can always return to VCP if they can't get another GRU frequency. How is the situation there evolving? TP left because of too many complains from passengers regarding lack of facilities at the airport, mainly food and duty free. Nevertheless, my money is on Africa. More MPM flights, especially.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4283
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:02 pm

Does anyone have photos of TAP's new premium cabin and seat? I have looked on line everywhere and can't find anything! Even on TAP's website.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10224
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:37 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 41):
Does anyone have photos of TAP's new premium cabin and seat? I have looked on line everywhere and can't find anything! Even on TAP's website.

I didn't know that they were getting a new cabin? I makes no sense to update the hard product now if they will start receiving the A359's in a couple of years. Unless you're talking about the product on the A359's. I haven't heard anything about the hard product on those.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2977
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:24 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 40):
True but TP has always had "special" privileges in Brazil. They can always return to VCP if they can't get another GRU frequency. How is the situation there evolving? TP left because of too many complains from passengers regarding lack of facilities at the airport, mainly food and duty free. Nevertheless, my money is on Africa. More MPM flights, especially.

Give LIS-VCP an EZE tag-on and problem may be solved.
That would be LIS-SAO 3rd daily frequency.
VCP region itself may now be able to provide a critical mass for some O/D traffic between Campinas and Buenos Aires.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
offloaded
Posts: 978
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:56 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:28 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 41):

I haven't heard anything about it. Not saying it isn't happening, just would've expected to hear something from my TP rep and I haven't.

I asked about a return to JNB a while ago and she said no way. Apparently when they did the double drop (MPM/JNB) all but approx 50 pax got out in MPM. Given the number of Portuguese Saffas I have no idea why JNB didn't work.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
User avatar
reffado
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:47 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:40 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 42):

They started refitting their A340's and A330's a year or so ago. Some pics on their instagram feed, but nothing too informative.

All I could find a picture of are the new Y seats, with much better touchscreens.

But overall, in J, I think they still use the same Recaro angled lie flat seat, in the A330's, only the screen size was increased. The A340's may have gotten flatbeds, but I'm not sure.

Current J, with the bigger screens:

 
airbazar
Posts: 10224
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 43):
VCP region itself may now be able to provide a critical mass for some O/D traffic between Campinas and Buenos Aires.

As I understand it they had no problem filling the seats from VCP. IIRC, the LF was in the 90% although this was a seasonal route and probably very low yield. But it shows that demand does exist already even as a standalone destination.
Here are the reasons for dropping the routes, at least the "official" reasons:
http://economico.sapo.pt/noticias/ta...eroporto-internacional_143855.html

For those who can't read portuguese, they called the problems, structural problems such as:
- No Duty Free
- Lack of food and beverage, air side
- Lack of crew catering, which has to be brought in from GRU
 
airbazar
Posts: 10224
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:00 pm

Official announcement for MAO and BEL is expected on October 5th. This says 3x per week starting next June but it doesn't specify whether it's 3x each, or whether this is a triangle route, although it does look like a triangular route.
http://www.ambitur.pt/site/news.asp?news=31720
"Novo voo: ​TAP inicia em 2014 rota Lisboa/Manaus/Belém/Lisboa”
O voo da TAP que fará a ligação entre Lisboa, Manaus e Belém está confirmado. Conforme apurou nossa reportagem, a nova rota começa a ser operada em junho de 2014 com três frequências iniciais. Ainda segundo fontes ouvidas pelo M&E, o anúncio oficial vai ser feito em Portugal, no dia 5 de outubro, com a presença de autoridades da companhia aérea e dos Estados do Amazonas e Pará.
 
incitatus
Posts: 3386
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:41 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 47):
This says 3x per week starting next June but it doesn't specify whether it's 3x each, or whether this is a triangle route, although it does look like a triangular route.


A triangular flight three times a week is a droplet of capacity - it can't go any smaller than that. Last time a foreign airline tried something similar in Brazil it did not go well with IB doing MAD-FOR-REC-MAD 3 x week. It lasted 9 months.

The possibilities for TP expanding the network in Brazil in the next ten years are nearly exhausted with CWB a hold out due to the short runway. Some of their existing routes should be able to support more capacity, especially GRU.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
airbazar
Posts: 10224
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TAP Portugal Almost Ready To Launch Manaus & Belem

Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:34 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 48):
A triangular flight three times a week is a droplet of capacity - it can't go any smaller than that. Last time a foreign airline tried something similar in Brazil it did not go well with IB doing MAD-FOR-REC-MAD 3 x week. It lasted 9 months.

Ah, but you have to remember that this is how TP started a lot (most?), of their Brazilian destinations, back when the A310 was the workhorse in their fleet. So if anyone can make it work it is TP.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 48):
The possibilities for TP expanding the network in Brazil in the next ten years are nearly exhausted with CWB a hold out due to the short runway. Some of their existing routes should be able to support more capacity, especially GRU.

More capacity is coming when they start replacing their A332's with A359's next year (or is it 2015?).

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos