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doulasc
Topic Author
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Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:19 am

Who was first to start MIA-LHR non stop in 1970? Was it BOAC or National Airlines.Before 1970 BOAC had MIA-NAS-BDA-LHR formerly operated by Cunard Eagle. I think Pan Am applied for MIA-LHR rights in 1970 but lost out to National.
 
maxair
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RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:53 am

According to my BOAC Jan-Mar 1970 timetable they operated a 4 times weekly non-stop LHR-MIA service and 3 times MIA-LHR:

Mo/Th/Fr/Sa BA661 Dep LHR 1015 Arr MIA1345
Tu/Sa/Su. BA664 Dep MIA 2045 Arr LHR 1015 following day

The other inbound days flights operated LHR-BDA-NAS-MIA or LHR-BDA-FPO-MIA

The other outbound days flights operated MIA-NAS-BDA-LHR or MIA-FPO-BDA-LHR

All operated by 707
 
Mortyman
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RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:47 am

When did Pan Am start theirs ?
 
jfk777
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RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:21 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 2):
When did Pan Am start theirs ?

National Airlines started London flights from Miami in 1970 with leased Dc-8's, PA merged with National in 1980. The PA/National merger has got to be the worst airline merger in Airlne history.
 
ozark1
Posts: 882
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:38 am

RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:14 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
The PA/National merger has got to be the worst airline merger in Airlne history.

And Seawell/PA paid a half a billion dollars for them!! Amazing
 
timz
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:20 pm

As I recall BOAC and National were planning to start nonstops at or about the same time, around the beginning of 1970, but National had some sort of problem-- a strike was it? Or something related to that. So they were late.
 
doulasc
Topic Author
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RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:11 pm

BOAC always operated a Boeing 707 on their LHR-MIA route before it bacame a 747.Did they ever bring a Vickers VC-10 into MIA?
 
prosa
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RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:17 pm

It wasn't always a pleasant flight:

Flew in from Miami Beach BOAC
Didn't get to bed last night
On the way the paper bag was on my knee
Man, I had a dreadful flight
 
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
doulasc
Topic Author
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RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:45 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 2):

After the Merger with National in 1980,Pan Am operated MIA-LHR until the sale of their Atlantic flights to Delta.I think their route to LHR was sold to United but United didn't operate it very long.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:16 pm

Quoting doulasc (Reply 6):
BOAC always operated a Boeing 707 on their LHR-MIA route before it bacame a 747.Did they ever bring a Vickers VC-10 into MIA?

I expect LHR-MIA was a little beyond economic VC-10 range. It never matched the 707-320B/C in range.
 
jfk777
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RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:41 pm

Quoting doulasc (Reply 8):
After the Merger with National in 1980,Pan Am operated MIA-LHR until the sale of their Atlantic flights to Delta.I think their route to LHR was sold to United but United didn't operate it very long

United only flew the route briefly because PA continued flying to London from Miami via Gatwick until they closed in 12/91.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:12 pm

Quoting timz (Reply 5):
As I recall BOAC and National were planning to start nonstops at or about the same time, around the beginning of 1970, but National had some sort of problem-- a strike was it? Or something related to that. So they were late.

This item from the January 1, 1970 issue of Flight International explains the problem.

No Miami Service—Yet

National Airlines' London-Miami inaugural—originally planned for tomorrow, January 2—is not now expected until February at the earliest. British union threats to boycott National aircraft in support of a striking American union are the cause of the trouble. A National proving flight for the route was hit by similar union action at Heathrow recently. BOAC is not expected to be affected by the dispute, and was due to inaugurate new direct Miami services today. January 1.


And this from the June 4, 1970 issue.

NATIONAL RESTARTING

AN end to the strike which has grounded National Airlines since the beginning of the year enabled the carrier to start
services again last week. The airline's London-Miami service, which was to have been inaugurated on January 1, will now begin on June 15. National will then become the third US airline with scheduled passenger service rights on the North Atlantic, and will operate the Miami route in competition with BOAC.

The strike has ended with the signing of a new three-year agreement between the airline and the Airline Employees'
Association. The contract provides for a 33 per cent increase in wages during the three years. National will operate its
London services with DC-8-50s.



National's MIA-LHR route was originally operated by two DC-8-54Fs wet-leased from MIA-based charter/supplemental carrier Airlift International (originally Riddle Airlines; changed their name in the mid-1960s).

[Edited 2013-09-07 15:27:30]
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:16 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
The PA/National merger has got to be the worst airline merger in Airlne history.

Please, explain a bit more.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:26 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 12):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
The PA/National merger has got to be the worst airline merger in Airlne history.

Please, explain a bit more.

Many previous threats on the Pan Am/National merger. This fairly recent one covers most of the issues.
Pan Am/National.... What Went Wrong? (by 727LOVER Jul 25 2011 in Civil Aviation)
 
doulasc
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:33 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 12):

The National/Pan Am merger was not a good one because Pan Am could have waited for deregulation to kick in and start their own domestic routes from scratch.Route structures were incompatible,Escalating fuel prices and the country was entering a recession which made things difficult for Pan Am after the merger, Seawell retired in 1980 right before he retired he pulled the 707s out of service.Acker was selling off assets like the Pacific routes to keep Pan Am going. The timing was bad when the merger took place.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:30 am

Quoting doulasc (Reply 14):

It's also speculated that if PA had merged with another, with better geographically located hubs, like NW, CO, or UA, that they could have lived. Weren't PA and NW (or was it UA?) also in talks before the National merger?
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
Aeri28
Posts: 673
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 1:08 pm

RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:08 am

Wouldn't it be a nice homage to Pan Am for UA or DL or AA to completely re brand themselves as Pan Am and let the legacy live again.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8704
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:49 am

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 16):
Wouldn't it be a nice homage to Pan Am for UA or DL or AA to completely re brand themselves as Pan Am and let the legacy live again.

Er no, it would make absolutely no sense.


I was a great fan of PAA but at the end they were a creaky mess and that's how many remember them.


Resurrecting a name of a huge failure ? Might not be the best idea..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
doulasc
Topic Author
Posts: 881
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:58 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 17):

Let Pan Am and TWA rest in peace,Eastern and all too.TWA stands for Two Wonderful Airlines-TWA and Pan Am.
 
ozark1
Posts: 882
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:38 am

RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:58 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 12):
Please, explain a bit more.

There is an excellent book out there called "SKY GODS. THE FALL OF PAN AM". It goes into detail about the National purchase. Very interesting read!
 
jfk777
Posts: 7452
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Who Started MIA-LHR Non Stop First?

Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:46 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 12):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):The PA/National merger has got to be the worst airline merger in Airlne history.
Please, explain a bit more.

Interest rates in the United States were about 20% at the time, the Natinal DC-10 fleet was mostly the short haul-10 version. National did nothing to enhance PA's Latin system in Miami as they didn't fly to Latin America, National's International flights were to Europe. National employees got raises to PA level, a raise which PA couldn't afford. The National DC-10 fleet didn't mesh well with the PA L-1011-500 fleet. Pan AM 747SP fleet was expensive to operate and probably made little money.

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