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93Sierra
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Pacific Wings/ Georgia Skies/ Tennessee Skies

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:55 pm

What's the latest on Pacific Wings? According to wikipeida they stopped all Hawaii flying at the end of June and Georgia Skies is also dead. Is Tennessee Skies still around or New Mexico Airlines?

Why did the company move their HQ to Mesa, Arizona when they don't serve anything remotely close? If they did stop flying where did there Caravans end up?

One other side question, why does Sun Air International have a pacific wings looking web site and a pacific wings copyright at the bottom? I was under the impression that Sun Air was the old Gulfstream CEO.

Thanks all
 
KPWMSpotter
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RE: Pacific Wings/ Georgia Skies/ Tennessee Skies

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:07 pm

Quoting 93Sierra (Thread starter):
Is Tennessee Skies still around or New Mexico Airlines?

Tennessee Skies was the first subsidiary to go, early 2012 I think. They had a fight with the Memphis airport; they wanted their gates for free, the airport wouldn't give in, so they scrapped all service. SeaPort now serves their EAS routes. New Mexico Airlines still exists, but with their reputation I certainly wouldn't count on it being around for much longer.

Quoting 93Sierra (Thread starter):
If they did stop flying where did there Caravans end up?

At least one of their Caravans are now flying for Air Choice One out of Chicago and St. Louis. I'm pretty sure the rest (except the three flying in New Mexico) have been sold off to other operators as well.

Quoting 93Sierra (Thread starter):
One other side question, why does Sun Air International have a pacific wings looking web site and a pacific wings copyright at the bottom? I was under the impression that Sun Air was the old Gulfstream CEO.

You're right, Sun Air is run by Thomas Cooper, formerly of Gulfstream/Silver. Sun Air purchased the reservations system from the Pacific Wings group. In order to secure a number of EAS contracts, Sun Air had to promise interline agreements. Since it takes years to set up a typical interline agreement, they simply purchased the agreements off of Pacific Wings. Apparently the website and booking agreements came with it. Air Choice One has a similar arrangement, but it looks like they've hired a webmaster to at least modify the website. Rumor has it that the interline agreements and reservations system are the only thing at Pacific Wings that's making money...

FlightAware occasionally gets confused with Sun Air and Choice One flights and lists them under a "Tsunami" callsign.
I reject your reality and substitute my own...
 
93Sierra
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RE: Pacific Wings/ Georgia Skies/ Tennessee Skies

Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:38 pm

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like their operation is going to close up, I didn't see them even put forth a proposal for any EAS routes.
 
Metjetceo
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RE: Pacific Wings/ Georgia Skies/ Tennessee Skies

Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:22 am

It's sort of a shame. Though I don't believe AHN deserves EAS subsidies, I see so much potential on th northeast side of Atlanta. Gwinnett has a ton of cash and people...growth continues to the northeast...and on a bad traffic day it could take 3 hours to get to ATL. Give AHN decent/reliable service on small planes to some good destinations at a reasonable price...and there will be customers. It is one market that I think RJs actually makes sense for a point to point operation. They will need better parking options at AHN.
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Pacific Wings/ Georgia Skies/ Tennessee Skies

Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:27 pm

Quoting metjetCEO (Reply 3):
Though I don't believe AHN deserves EAS subsidies, I see so much potential on th northeast side of Atlanta

As a resident of Athens, I somewhat take offense at that statement. AHN served and supported US service with B1900's for many years until the new US abandoned it due to revenue losses and cutbacks on service to small communitites. Load factors were always good but reliability was the killer for many people in the Athens area thus the name USeless Air. I flew US to CLT and onwards hundreds of times and only had a handful of no-go's.

I will agree though that in todays climate of not supporting or servicing smaller communities with mainline/regional connections I see no future really for AHN. That being said I believe and strongly believe there is a need for a second airport on the northeast side of Atlanta. Briscoe Field (LZU) in Lawrenceville is the only sane choice for this second airport but the county and city have fought this idea for years and I see no end to the opposition in sight. Also, ATL has done everything in its power to keep a second airport from opening on the north side of Atlanta. They literally own the NGRTA and don't let the second airport discussions get off the ground.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
KPWMSpotter
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RE: Pacific Wings/ Georgia Skies/ Tennessee Skies

Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:10 pm

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 4):
As a resident of Athens, I somewhat take offense at that statement. AHN served and supported US service with B1900's for many years until the new US abandoned it due to revenue losses and cutbacks on service to small communitites.

I don't think metjetCEO's comment was intended to suggest that Athens doesn't deserve air service, I think he was commenting on the federal EAS subsidy that the city receives.

Both Athens and Macon are within ~1.5 hours driving time of Atlanta. While traffic can be bad, the EAS system is not designed as a system to circumvent gridlock, it's intended as a system to provide service to small communities which otherwise would not see any connection to the US transportation network. The EAS system is intended to support cities like Dodge City, Kansas, which are 4+ hours by car from the nearest commercially served city, and have no rail/bus/transit connections. When I flew ATL-AHN last year, I could have easily taken Groom's shared van for a quarter of the price and in the exact same amount of time. Personally, I think EAS service to MCN, AHN, and dozens of other markets, is a waste of the government's money.

Don't get me wrong, I think AHN should have commercial service, and I certainly don't want EAS to go away altogether; the program does need some trimming though.
I reject your reality and substitute my own...
 
Metjetceo
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RE: Pacific Wings/ Georgia Skies/ Tennessee Skies

Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:21 am

KPWMS. That is precisely what I meant. In fact I am very much in favor of AHN service ... Just not EAS. There just isn't a need for a subsidy as it whether it has air service, or not, is not "essential". . I have tried to bring MetJet service there a few times and the thing is the city of Athens does not want air service...or at least local investors and the unified government. I would even argue that Tim Beggerly does not fight for new service and he is the Director.


FYI my parents live there and I am a Gwinnett boy. LZU would be nice too, but I like AHNs proximity to other markets better. AHN literally has no parking
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Pacific Wings/ Georgia Skies/ Tennessee Skies

Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:44 am

Quoting KPWMSpotter (Reply 5):
I don't think metjetCEO's comment was intended to suggest that Athens doesn't deserve air service, I think he was commenting on the federal EAS subsidy that the city receives.
Quoting metjetCEO (Reply 6):
AHN literally has no parking

Sorry for the knee jerk reply. It was right before dinner and my wife was calling me to the table. My apologies.

I do agree with you that the subsidies should not be used. Also, the SeaPort service is to BNA and most people here do not know what airlines are at BNA that they could connect with. Besides, most service at BNA is with WN. That being said I flew SeaPort and WN about two months back to MDW thru BNA for $342 r/t. I recall that at the time DL was $310 roughly so it was a wash once I drive the 88 miles from my office in Athens to ATL plus parking in AHN is free. However, the drawback was having to wait in BNA for the connection, re-checking bags, etc.. In all the flying part took about 7-8 hours longer but overall it was cheaper.

I have rarely seen the parking full at AHN though but if AHN were to land some regional connection with a mainline such as US or UA I could see them adding some parking which is simple enough and they have the room for it but for the time being I see no reason for it.


GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
Metjetceo
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RE: Pacific Wings/ Georgia Skies/ Tennessee Skies

Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:12 am

There is a great deal of potential but little effort. I still have my eye on it for some key service tied to some local demand. Nothing huge but enough to get the ball rolling. In dealing with the airport/city it's like they lost all interest in promoting the airport when they lost their claim to IAD service, which was the navy school.
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Pacific Wings/ Georgia Skies/ Tennessee Skies

Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:04 am

Quoting metjetCEO (Reply 8):
In dealing with the airport/city it's like they lost all interest in promoting the airport when they lost their claim to IAD service, which was the navy school.

One has to remember who you are dealing with. Athens/Clarke county is the most liberal minded county in GA. The board and mayor see themselves as saviors from big business and corporations. They will spend millions of dollars on bus stop art projects (the pipe and sheet metal bus stop shelters "made by artists". However, not one bus shelter was made by a local artist or even a GA artist.

Additionally, they view the airport as a by gone era and with the government in the case of US serving AHN for the IAD/DCA routes they see no real need for it. I even remember Heidi once moving in forum to close it or "share" the Winder, GA airport and close Ben Epps.

I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's when a second airport was being pushed for Jefferson, GA about 20 miles north of Athens, the ACC board put together a consortium that included UGA to fight against and got ATL involved and went down to the Capital to lobby against it. ACC spent about one million dollars on that lobbying effort to stop it. They did the exact same thing against a Bridgestone Tire plant that was going into Commerce, GA so Bridgestone picked up and moved to Aiken, SC where it is now the worlds largest tire plant. UGA in essence controls ACC and the liberal mindset of being non-business is rampant in Athens. I would love to see some regional connector flights to CLT, ATL or elsewhere but I just do not see it happening anywhere in the future.

Even LZU I do not see happening. That opportunity past when WN bought out FL. I always believed that WN would come into LZU when they were not in ATL and buy their way into the Atlanta market by helping to build a terminal at LZU and turning it into a Love field type airport but those days are gone too.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
srbmod
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RE: Pacific Wings/ Georgia Skies/ Tennessee Skies

Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:15 am

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 9):
Even LZU I do not see happening. That opportunity past when WN bought out FL. I always believed that WN would come into LZU when they were not in ATL and buy their way into the Atlanta market by helping to build a terminal at LZU and turning it into a Love field type airport but those days are gone too.

WN buying FL didn't kill LZU as a possible second airport, the NIMBYs did years earlier and future efforts to do so were pretty much dead on arrival as a result. I remember when they upgraded LZU in the late 80s, early 90s and those plans included being a reliever airport to ATL and plans included a much longer runway as well as a terminal building. The NIMBYs were still in a bit of a tizzy after the new jail was built in the area with little concern for the area. They managed to get the runway length shortened, the terminal axed (with hangars built instead) and stalled getting a new control tower for several years. The recent attempt lacked popular support and nearly all of the members of the county commission that backed it all ended up resigning due to various scandals mainly dealing with bribery and land deals and the ones that replaced them on the commission opposed privatization of the airport. One thing to also remember is that Delta has long fought a second airport and AirTran had joined them on that in more recent proposals for a second commercial airport.

If a second Atlanta area airport is built or an existing airport in the area sees real commercial service from a major carrier (or a regional airline operating under their banner) in my lifetime, I will be shocked. The City Of Atlanta has owned two large tracts of land in Dawson County and Paulding County for several decades with the intention of one of those sites being turned into a second Atlanta airport. The Dawson County site was revisited back in the 1990s a few times and the local government pretty much told the City of Atlanta to pound sand (Just as they were told by the folks in Jackson County at that time.). Due to the topography of the Dawson County site, it would take a lot of site work costing into the billions of dollars and in recent years, plans for the site have gone from being an airport to being a reservoir to provide drinking water for parts of Metro Atlanta. The City Of Atlanta in recent years sold off a small portion of the Paulding County tract to Paulding County for them to build a small airport.

Back in the late 60s, early 70s when a second airport was really a likely project, they couldn't agree on a site. One site was on the northside of town approximately where North Point Mall currently sits (Northern Fulton County was still very rural at that time.) and the other was on the southside near Locust Grove (The southern part of Henry County was still very rural at that time as well.) and both sites offered plenty of cheap land for future growth. The politicians on the northside of town wanted the new airport there, while the ones on the southside of town wanted there (especially since the current airport already was). There was also resistance to a new airport from Delta, Eastern and Southern. The midfield complex at ATL was the compromise decision and ATL doesn't have too much more room for expansion beyond whatever they may decide to do in the updated masterplan.
 
ski747
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RE: Pacific Wings/ Georgia Skies/ Tennessee Skies

Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:35 pm

I know Sun Air International runs out of Terminal B at IAH with 4-6 flights to VCT (Victoria, TX) a day. A very old Piper Navajo to my knowledge. When working at IAH waived it in a couple of times. Flights were always packed. Very little cargo room and tons of cargo to get to VCT. Had to have a chaser van. Not sure if it is still running.

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