Quoting airjamaica (Reply 98): For the life of me I can't see how the USDOT can fairly conclude that there is no need for this nonstop service. I wonder how many carriers they count that operate nonstop between GEO and JFK presently ? It is pretty obvious why they are denying other carriers this access.

Politics at it's best...

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 98): What will their frequency be like for the season ? Hopefully it will gain popularity and become a regular at MBJ.

I think it will be a weekly service, but will confirm this info...

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 99): They are applying their successful VFR advertising model used in BZE to KIN……for example in BZE they have newspaper, TV, billboards and joint promos with Digicell and Courts aimed at northbound traffic. Has worked very well and they have made serious inroads on UA and AA.

I think they will do well and will be around for a long time..To facilitate early northbound transfers, the flight will RON in KIN with a 9am departure to ATL eff Jan14..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BW has a full page ad in the Jamaica Gleaner where they highlighted their commitment to the local market and plans are in place to add frequencies eff Jan14..

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 100): I think they will do well and will be around for a long time..To facilitate early northbound transfers, the flight will RON in KIN with a 9am departure to ATL eff Jan14.. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If DL is intent on maximizing connectivity from the flight one would've thought with a RON operation they'd have opted for an earlier departure time than 9:00am. By comparision AA 's early departure beats DL to the punch by two hours.

GOJ is considering offering revenue guarantee to Copa to increase airlift from Brazil to Jamaica. Its one of two options being considered or according to the report below ....... /it may try to fly potential visitors straight from the South American country.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/busin...zilian-airlift-to-Jamaica_15571731

Since its already has minority stake in CAL why not pursue discussions with CAL. CAL has two 767s that are grossly under utilized and such an arrangement will actually allow then to grow as from day one I have said there growth should not be based on acquiring other carriers but growing organically.


http://www.newsday.co.tt/politics/0,187228.html

The cost associated with operating the 767 is quite high and they need to get better returns on there investment and this opportunity should be something they engage Jamaica on.

[Edited 2013-12-04 07:27:22]

[Edited 2013-12-04 07:29:06]

Quoting jm079 (Reply 102): GOJ is considering offering revenue guarantee to Copa to increase airlift from Brazil to Jamaica. Its one of two options being considered or according to the report below ....... /it may try to fly potential visitors straight from the South American country.

If Jamaica gets CM to fly PTY-MBJ-PTY almost twice daily + PTY-KIN-PTY daily (for whatever extra capacity could be channelled via KIN) and Jamaica could do sell very well in the Brazilian market.
Just compare CM frequencies to PUJ and how much PUJ via PTY is being marketed in Brazil.
With CM Jamaica could get frequent access to 7-9 Brazilian cities plus other Latin American markets.

Quote: Since its already has minority stake in CAL why not pursue discussions with CAL. CAL has two 767s that are grossly under utilized and such an arrangement will actually allow then to grow as from day one I have said there growth should not be based on acquiring other carriers but growing organically.

Jamaica trying to woo BW to fly B737-800 MBJ-POS-GRU/GIG?
If Jamaica is to give BW a revenue guarantee for the POS-GRU/GIG sector, BW should at least study it.
Problem with BW flying Brazilians to MBJ via POS is that promoting Jamaica outside SAO and RIO markets may not be an easy job to do.

Quoting jm079 (Reply 102):

I wasn't aware that the 767s were greatly under utilized. They do 3X LGW POS. 2X YYZ GEO POS. and 4/5X JFK GEO POS.

Currently Brazil supplies Jamaica with around 50 passengers/week. And not all from one city. Seems very speculative to get BW to give up LGW for some Brazilian city. They definitely aren't going to pull their 767s from their lucrative GEO routes.

Quoting jm079 (Reply 102): GOJ is considering offering revenue guarantee to Copa to increase airlift from Brazil to Jamaica. Its one of two options being considered or according to the report below ....... /it may try to fly potential visitors straight from the South American country.

I suspect they will grant CM a revenue guarantee to beef up the PTY-MBJ frequency, and promote in Brazil the options that are available from the various cities there to Jamaica via PTY. In any case it would also be great to have non stops from GRU and/or GIG to MBJ though.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 103): Just compare CM frequencies to PUJ and how much PUJ via PTY is being marketed in Brazil. With CM Jamaica could get frequent access to 7-9 Brazilian cities plus other Latin American markets.

What is CM's PTY-PUJ frequency ? Daily or more than that ?

Quoting LimaMike (Reply 101): If DL is intent on maximizing connectivity from the flight one would've thought with a RON operation they'd have opted for an earlier departure time than 9:00am. By comparision AA 's early departure beats DL to the punch by two hours.

Yes, you are right about AA, but the KIN market is growing and there is more than enough connecting traffic that DL can route via ATL..

Quoting jm079 (Reply 102): GOJ is considering offering revenue guarantee to Copa to increase airlift from Brazil to Jamaica. Its one of two options being considered or according to the report below ....... /it may try to fly potential visitors straight from the South American country.

Am curious, as to which carriers the GOJ would engage to serve a nonstop Jamaica-Brazil flight?

Quoting jm079 (Reply 102): Since its already has minority stake in CAL why not pursue discussions with CAL. CAL has two 767s that are grossly under utilized and such an arrangement will actually allow then to grow as from day one I have said there growth should not be based on acquiring other carriers but growing organically.

Its a possibility, but BW has to get their house in order before taking on such a task..

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 103): If Jamaica gets CM to fly PTY-MBJ-PTY almost twice daily + PTY-KIN-PTY daily (for whatever extra capacity could be channelled via KIN) and Jamaica could do sell very well in the Brazilian market. Just compare CM frequencies to PUJ and how much PUJ via PTY is being marketed in Brazil. With CM Jamaica could get frequent access to 7-9 Brazilian cities plus other Latin American markets.

Any increase in services to Jamaica, will only be directed to MBJ.

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 105): I suspect they will grant CM a revenue guarantee to beef up the PTY-MBJ frequency, and promote in Brazil the options that are available from the various cities there to Jamaica via PTY. In any case it would also be great to have non stops from GRU and/or GIG to MBJ though.

You used a key word, "promote"..I don't think airlift is an issue with CM..But Jamaica will need to invest in heavy promotions throughout major Brazilian and Latin American cities such as SCL,LIM,CCS,BOG,BUE and UIO..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 105): What is CM's PTY-PUJ frequency ? Daily or more than that ?

Currenly 27 weekly..

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 106):

The only way BW can serve Brazil from Jamaica is if a Jamaica based 738 flies MBJ POS and then to either GIG or GRU. That way it picks up POS traffic as well. GRU will be better if they can interest TAM in some sort of joint code or interline arrangement to encourage feed from other Brazilian cities. West Indians will prefer GIG though.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 107): The only way BW can serve Brazil from Jamaica is if a Jamaica based 738 flies MBJ POS and then to either GIG or GRU. That way it picks up POS traffic as well. GRU will be better if they can interest TAM in some sort of joint code or interline arrangement to encourage feed from other Brazilian cities. West Indians will prefer GIG though.

A POS stop on a MBJ-Brazil flight may do POS some good.
GRU is slot restricted which means any possible BW flight there most likely would have to operate between 2300h and 0600h; VCP is SAO other international airport but it's 90Km from SAO major business centre.
Because any BW MBJ-Brazil flight surely will be routed via POS, GIG presents itself as a good Brazilian gateway for BW. GIG is still under capacity and there might actually be some oil-chemical business related GIG-POS traffic demand so to improve yields.
Doubtful JJ (now OneWorld LATAM) would be interested to do feeder w/BW, best chance might be talking to G3.
G3 does already fly to the Caribbean and could well add a weekly Brazil-MBJ via somewhere in Brazil or northern South America if given an incentive by Jamaica.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 106): Currenly 27 weekly..

Just imagine if CM is flying 27 times per week (1 flight short of 4 daily) what would happen to Jamaica if CM was to fly PTY-MBJ twice daily or more. (forgetting any CM KIN frequency upgrade).

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 108):

Didn't suggest G3 as I thought that they would prefer to start their own route if interested, rather than feeding some one else. Though that might present ideas if BW did a MBJ BGI GIG route instead, leaving G3 to place its passengers on a BW flight instead of flying their own metal.

I did think that GIG would be better as then travel by Caribbean people to Brazil could also be promoted. RIO will interest them. I doubt that SP would.

Speaking truthfully. Do you think that Latin American tourists will ever favor a destination in the English speaking Caribbean the way that they favor the DR or Cancun? I don't see CM ever matching MBJ with its PUJ service. Sure they can increase it, but most people prefer to stay within their comfort zone, so will favor places where their language is spoken. Sadly Jamaicans will never be as multi lingual as people from Curacao are.

Guys, another local airline is on the horizon..The link I will provide is a screenshot of the article that was featured in today's edition of the Jamaica-Gleaner..

These are the highlights:

Ava Transportation, Jamaica conducted a survey of air travel in the region..The airline will connect Jamaica,The Caribbean and Americas.

Based on their economic plan, the airline intends to build a loyalty base that will get customers to their destination faster.

JCAA has stated, the company has completed 50% of their requirements for the certification process..Over the next three months,they should complete up to the demonstration phase..

The airline is expected to begin with 4 aircraft and is expected to grow to 25 with an expenditure of USD$800 million..






Good news indeed...I hope this company will operate a LCC model, that will stimulate growth into KIN and MBJ..

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 110):

What is so good about it? The market is only but so large. People only travel to but so many places. This doesn't bode well for Fly Jamaica. If they do take off I sniff another Redjet.

Where is the evidence that the market is underserved? Routes that aren't flown aren't flown for a reason and that is because demand is limited. As is we don't really know how well FlyJam is doing,

The track record of privately run airlines in the Caribbean is quite poor. Lacking subsidies from governments, but facing the same challenges, almost all have collapsed. Aside from Air Caraibe (which is relay a French airline (metropole with an Antillean flavor) only Insel Air seems to be successful.

Hummingbird, do you have the internet link to that article about Olivier Arrindell's new airline?


Cheers,

A388

Quoting guyanam (Reply 111): If they do take off I sniff another Redjet

Redjet failed, due to the political interference..
They were forced to operate from BGI, then faced more obstacles getting flights into POS and KIN..

Quoting guyanam (Reply 111):

But, KIN has seen growth over the last two years with new flights from WS, AC-Rouge, Fly-Jam,DL and Aerogaviota...Obviously, the demand exists..On the Caribbean front, I see flights to HAV,GCM,NAS,ANU,BGI,SXM,CUR and POS..

Quoting A388 (Reply 112): Hummingbird, do you have the internet link to that article about Olivier Arrindell's new airline? Cheers, A388

I accessed the article through an online subscription to the Gleaner..But, rest assured, you will be hearing more about this company, once more information is disseminated..

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 113):

Where was the political interference? You cannot start an airline and expect people to instantly approve its operations. Look how long its been taking FJ to get its approvals on all its routes. I dont hear any excuses from them. Part of the risk of a start up airline is the fact that regulatory agencies will be skeptical, demand ample documentation, and will drag their feet.


Redjet failed because an arrogant white man looked at the "dumb" natives and assumed that they knew nothing. So he got ageing MD83 planes to fly 250 miles at knock down airfares. His costs were high, his fares low, and his volumes light.So he failed. And his planes broke down frequently. That is when they weren't on the ground idle.



Many of us predicted that Redjet would fail. It failed for exactly the same reasons that we predicted.


Where does the demand exist in service to the Caribbean? BW used to do 11X and then cut back to 7X. Yes during the summer, easter and xmas and Trinidad carnival those fligfhts are over booked but what about the rest of the year? The Nassau route is almost never full.



The JTB data suggest that visitor arrivals into KIN are flat. KIN is hardely an underserved yet rapdly growing market. Indeed Westjet has cut back its flights. Given the weakness of the Jamaican economy and the declining Jam $ I dont see how outbound traffic out of KIN will be all that strong.

With Jamaica forcing Trinidad to provide a mandated level of service, and with another Jamaican owned airline struggli9ng to get off the ground, I really dont see what sense starting another airline makes at this time. Dilute your market with fly by night operators, and the carriers that Jamaica needs re-evaluate the market and pull out.

The very fact that these people predict 25 planes in a few years just shows that they do not have the vaguest notion of aviation. JM at its best didnt have so many planes, and the market is a good deal more competitive than it was then.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 108): G3 does already fly to the Caribbean and could well add a weekly Brazil-MBJ via somewhere in Brazil or northern South America if given an incentive by Jamaica.

I think eventually an arrangement like that will happen with G3.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 110): Guys, another local airline is on the horizon..The link I will provide is a screenshot of the article that was featured in today's edition of the Jamaica-Gleaner.. The airline is expected to begin with 4 aircraft and is expected to grow to 25 with an expenditure of USD$800 million..

Wasn't expecting to hear this. Is this the same consortium that was planning " Jamaica Queen " ? I wonder what aircraft type are they planning to operate ?

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 113): KIN has seen growth over the last two years with new flights from WS

Quoting guyanam (Reply 114): Indeed Westjet has cut back its flights.

At one point they were up to 4x weekly if I am not mistaken. What is their current frequency ? Is it that they reduce their rotation during the soft periods and beef it up during summer/Xmas ?

Quoting guyanam (Reply 114):

Only time will tell...Am always glad to see new carriers in the region..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 115): Wasn't expecting to hear this. Is this the same consortium that was planning " Jamaica Queen " ? I wonder what aircraft type are they planning to operate ?

Am not sure if they are affiliated with Jamaica Queen

I assume they will adapt a LCC model..Lease rates on aircraft are low..I would love to see an airbus fleet..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 115): At one point they were up to 4x weekly if I am not mistaken. What is their current frequency ? Is it that they reduce their rotation during the soft periods and beef it up during summer/Xmas ?

WS is now at 2 weekly..

BW is now at 3w, will increase to 5 during peak.
WS is and will remain at 2 weekly.
AC Rogue is and will remain at 5weekly..

----------------------------

FLY Jamaica has now opened bookings for flights to YYZ..

Schedule are as follow..

Eff Dec 17.
KIN-YYZ
07:00-11.30a Tu

Eff 18
YYZ-KIN
15:30-20:00 We

GEO-YYZ
Eff 18
08:00-13:30 We

YYZ-GEO
Eff Dec 17
13:30-21:00 Tu.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 116): WS is now at 2 weekly..

Wasn't aware they were now down to 2x weekly.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 116): FLY Jamaica has now opened bookings for flights to YYZ..

That is very welcome news. Hopefully they will have a smooth launch this time around. The diaspora in Toronto have been waiting patiently for their service. Also I am sure the Guyanese will also welcome the additional option between GEO and YYZ, which will operate nonstop in both directions unlike the GEO-JFK routing. So now the games begin with 4 carriers on KIN-YYZ.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 116): FLY Jamaica has now opened bookings for flights to YYZ..

Usage of the 757-200 is now at its max. Any further expansion will require new aircraft. Maintaining schedules over the past week has been a challenge, due to weather. Some flying had to be done during rest times.

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 117): Wasn't aware they were now down to 2x weekly.

Also, Sunwings is now operating YYZ-KIN flights on behalf of GG Tours..There was a flight on Sat and Sun..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 117): That is very welcome news. Hopefully they will have a smooth launch this time around. The diaspora in Toronto have been waiting patiently for their service. Also I am sure the Guyanese will also welcome the additional option between GEO and YYZ, which will operate nonstop in both directions unlike the GEO-JFK routing. So now the games begin with 4 carriers on KIN-YYZ.

I expect them to increase frequencies on the route, once the second aircraft arrives..

Quoting yankeejuliet (Reply 118): Usage of the 757-200 is now at its max. Any further expansion will require new aircraft. Maintaining schedules over the past week has been a challenge, due to weather. Some flying had to be done during rest times.

I agree..I was monitoring the flights this weekend..Its a miracle the aircraft was able to do so many rotations..


This is their current schedule..

MON
GEO-KIN-JFK-KIN-JFK-KIN

TUES
KIN-YYZ-GEO(NIGHT STOP)

WED
GEO-YYZ-KIN (NIGHT STOP)

THUR
KIN-JFK-KIN-GEO (2HR STOP)

FRI
GEO-KIN-JFK-GEO (NIGHT STOP)

SAT
GEO-KIN-JFK-KIN

SUN
KIN-JFK-KIN-GEO

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 117): I am sure the Guyanese will also welcome the additional option between GEO and YYZ

I am sure they will.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 119): I agree..I was monitoring the flights this weekend..Its a miracle the aircraft was able to do so many rotations..

Wow, that is nonstop, I hope they get their second a/c soon. Do you know why can't they do KIN-GEO-JFK-GEO-KIN as BW does from POS?

GUYAIR707

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 120):

Fly Jamaica's application for nonstop GEO-JFK services was denied by The DOT..

BW' s one year exemption to operate GEO- JFK flights will expire Jul 2014..

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 121):

Thanks for clearing that up.

GUYAIR707

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 121):

BW should have grandfathered rights from BWIA to do POS GEO JFK, in addition to the GEO POS JFK. Its a JFK GEO JFK that they arent allowed to do.

FJ has the ability to do JFK GEO KIN. Its just not cost effective to run this route too often as the GEO KIN will be empty.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 123):

Why not just continue to YYZ or JFK for the GEO pax, with a different flight number, or is that not allowed.

GUYAIR707

Quoting yankeejuliet (Reply 118): Usage of the 757-200 is now at its max. Any further expansion will require new aircraft. Maintaining schedules over the past week has been a challenge, due to weather. Some flying had to be done during rest times.

Indeed an additional aircraft will be needed for any further route expansion or increased services to existing ones. I wonder what is the status where acquisition of a second metal is concerned.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 119): Also, Sunwings is now operating YYZ-KIN flights on behalf of GG Tours..There was a flight on Sat and Sun..

I thought WG decided to leave KIN for good in favour of MBJ which I recall they announced some time ago. At least KIN is now receiving additional flight operations, which will increase next year. But with so many carriers operating on the KIN-YYZ route, it will be a blood bath.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 119): I expect them to increase frequencies on the route, once the second aircraft arrives..

I would think so as well. I don't see them doing 1x weekly on that route when they increase their fleet.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 119): This is their current schedule..

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 120): Wow, that is nonstop, I hope they get their second a/c soon.

Tight schedule. Aircraft # 2 is needed.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 124):

BW and FJ have to either route their JFK GEO service via their bases (POS or KIN), or the service will have to end there. So on Friday FJ does a JFK GEO KIN service. BW runs several JFK GEO POS flights.

They will not be allowed to fly GEO JFK unless the flight touches its base at some point. Canada allows this, which is why FJ can do a YYZ GEO YYZ flight.

The USA is being a bully because DL hasn't really exited the GEO market, or at least not yet. They are merely trying to make life so hard for Guyana that Guyana is forced to prevent Caribbean carriers from running nonstops from JFK. I mean in what sane world can any one argue that GEO doesn't need nonstop service by carriers other than DL, which has "stopped" service in any case. I fear that the PPP will be dumb enough to fall for that, thinking that DL and Travelspan are all the nonstops needed.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 122): Thanks for clearing that up.

You are welcome.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 123): FJ has the ability to do JFK GEO KIN. Its just not cost effective to run this route too often as the GEO KIN will be empty.

Luckily, the market between GEO-KIN seems to be holding it's own..But from what I see KIN-JFK is a strong performer..

Quoting guyanam (Reply 126):

Quoting guyanam (Reply 123): BW should have grandfathered rights from BWIA to do POS GEO JFK, in addition to the GEO POS JFK. Its a JFK GEO JFK that they arent allowed to do.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 126):

I will provide a copy of the DOT document that provides exemption for BW's GEO-JFK flight..



OST-2013-0140 - Exemption - JFK-Georgetown, Guyana

July 18, 2013

Application for an Exemption

Caribbean Airlines Limited respectfully requests an exemption from the provisions of 49 USC § 41301 to the extent necessary to permit it to engage in scheduled foreign air transportation of persons, property and mail between New York, New York (JFK) and Georgetown, Guyana. Specifically, CAL proposes to inaugurate daily non-stop service between JFK and Georgetown, with service to begin immediately. The exemption is requested for one year.

By Notice of Action Taken, dated February 29, 2008, in Docket OST-2008-0053, the Department found that CAL was financially and operationally qualified to conduct services from the United States to Georgetown, Guyana, as an intermediate point between Trinidad and Tobago and as a point behind Trinidad and Tobago. The Department found that permitting such service was consistent with Department policy and consistent with the public interest. Accordingly. CAL has been servicing Guyana as an intermediate point from New York (JFK) since 2008.

http://airlineinfo.com/ostcarrier/bwia.html


I will predict, DL will re-enter JFK-GEO next summer once this exemption expires.

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 125): Indeed an additional aircraft will be needed for any further route expansion or increased services to existing ones. I wonder what is the status where acquisition of a second metal is concerned.

No news as yet..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 125): I thought WG decided to leave KIN for good in favour of MBJ which I recall they announced some time ago. At least KIN is now receiving additional flight operations, which will increase next year. But with so many carriers operating on the KIN-YYZ route, it will be a blood bath.

It will only operate for the Christmas period..GG Tours have been running charters to KIN from YYZ for over 5 years..In the past, they have used TS..

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 127):

The application you listed is for CAL to have 7th freedom rights to fly between GEO-JFK without touching POS, and that application was rejected on September 30th along side FJ's application.
CAL holds 5th and 6th freedom rights to fly from POS to the 13 CariCOM countries into the US, Puerto RIco and the US dependencies.
So the flights BW526/527 all run POS-GEO-JFK 5 times a week, 6 times in the high season with the 767.
If Delta wants to return to the GEO-JFK market they can right now, but as they stated in their reply and "concern" CAL uses it's 5th freedom authority very aggressively and makes it difficult for them on the route.
As Guyanam stated Canada is a lot more liberal on 7th freedom flights than the US where their airlines are consistently use lobbying groups to deny flights they see have interest in.

And if BW was to set up their own Guyanese airline with Guyanese registered aircraft and if Guyana gets U.S. Cat1 status?

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 129):

Around 2010 GOG said they were bringing in a consultant to assist them getting back to Cat. 1, and that it would take a few years. No word since...I guess BW could then do that if it was worth their while.

GUYAIR707

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 128):

The USA is being a bully this time because of DL. As you will recall BWIA used to run JFK ANU GEO and MIA BGI GEO flights. They didn't have to stop in POS. Neither BGI nor ANU had any ownership interests in BWIA. All they offered was the same flag carrier status that GEO now offers.

DL needs to grow up and compete if it wishes to do JFK GEO. The market is large enough to support two carriers. BW no longer has a fuel subsidy so that excuse is old. Being a smaller carrier and by definition financially weaker, and not being a major global carrier BW is the under dog in that race. Indeed many Caribbean people (including Guyanese) have the notion that if its foreign it must be better, so there is a whole segment who will select DL even if they use a donkey cart.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 129):

Petty intra CARICOM jealousies will prevent BW from setting up a Guyana subsidiary, unless it has substantial Guyanese ownership. Maybe Guyanese business people who have fantasies of flying planes might consider that option if it becomes available under Cat 1, instead of setting up fly by nights, which will surely happen if Cat 1 is obtained. Hopefully by then BW would have resolved its management problems and become at least a break even operation, even if not profitable.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 131): Petty intra CARICOM jealousies will prevent BW from setting up a Guyana subsidiary, unless it has substantial Guyanese ownership. Maybe Guyanese business people who have fantasies of flying planes might consider that option if it becomes available under Cat 1, instead of setting up fly by nights, which will surely happen if Cat 1 is obtained.

Some Guyanese business people could knock on some airlines doors offering to partner on a Guyanese subsidiary thus gaining know-how and equipment while offering Guyanese air-traffic rights.
This would be more attractive if Guyana was Cat 1. but there are ways around (loopholes) to get a Guyanese airline to fly between Guyana and U.S.A. non-stop even if Guyana is still on Cat 2.

Would that kind of airline venture work for countries like Belize or Barbados, even Trinidad and Tobago or Jamaica?

Doesn't ATL-KIN start today?

Wishing Richard and his sales team all the best. Lets hope they can get it to work this time.

Travel Services, Czech Republic will return to MBJ this winter operating a Prague-MBJ-CUN-Prague utilizing a B738..
Assuming there will be a fuel stop on both transatlantic legs..



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

JetAirFly, Belgium has delayed their B788 services to MBJ until Jan..Yesterday's flight was operated by an A340

eff 01JAN14 Brussels %u2013 Punta Cana %u2013 Montego Bay %u2013 Brussels 2 weekly (Previously scheduled on 21DEC13)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 128): The application you listed is for CAL to have 7th freedom rights to fly between GEO-JFK without touching POS, and that application was rejected on September 30th along side FJ's application.

Actually, these are the applications The DOT rejected..But, I can guarantee, we will be having this discussion next year summer..


Fly Jamaica Airways Limited

OST-2013-0136 - Exemption - US-Guyana

July 16, 2013

Application for Exemption

Fly Jamaica Airways Limited hereby applies for an exemption from 49 USC §4130 to conduct scheduled foreign air transportations of persons, property, and mail between New York (JFK), on the one hand, and the terminal point Georgetown, Guyana, on the other. Issuance of this authority to Fly Jamaica will enable it to provide a new service directly between the US and Guyana, a market which Fly Jamaica understands is currently being served by no US or Guyanese carrier.

Fly Jamaica intends to use Boeing B757-200 aircraft for its proposed service and plans to commence service as soon as possible in this underserved market.

Counsel: Pierre Murphy, 202-776-3980


Caribbean Airlines Limted

OST-2013-0140 - Exemption - JFK-Georgetown, Guyana

July 18, 2013

Application for an Exemption

Caribbean Airlines Limited respectfully requests an exemption from the provisions of 49 USC § 41301 to the extent necessary to permit it to engage in scheduled foreign air transportation of persons, property and mail between New York, New York (JFK) and Georgetown, Guyana. Specifically, CAL proposes to inaugurate daily non-stop service between JFK and Georgetown, with service to begin immediately. The exemption is requested for one year.

By Notice of Action Taken, dated February 29, 2008, in Docket OST-2008-0053, the Department found that CAL was financially and operationally qualified to conduct services from the United States to Georgetown, Guyana, as an intermediate point between Trinidad and Tobago and as a point behind Trinidad and Tobago. The Department found that permitting such service was consistent with Department policy and consistent with the public interest. Accordingly. CAL has been servicing Guyana as an intermediate point from New York (JFK) since 2008.

Counsel: Condon & Forsyth, John Maggio, 212-894-6792

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 133): Doesn't ATL-KIN start today? Wishing Richard and his sales team all the best. Lets hope they can get it to work this time.

Yes, flight is now enroute..

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL383

I have faith, they will be around for a while..

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 134):

Please note that in 2008 BW was accorded route rights with GEO being both an intermediate point on the POS JFK, and a point behind the POS JFK. This represented the grandfathering of route rights previously enjoyed by BWIA. So BW has rights to do GEO POS JFK, and POS GEO JFK.

Indeed they have been running that service since the beginning of last year, and indeed ran a few flights like that in summer 2011 when they had weather related scheduling problems. That is BEFORE the application that you reference.

They requested one year permission to do JFK GEO. This was denied. FlyJam currently runs a JFK GEO KIN service on Fridays despite its application for JFK GEO being denied, FJ, if they wished, could also fly KIN GEO JFK, but then the KIN GEO sector will be fairly empty, and its too long a flight to sustain that.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 134): Yes, flight is now enroute..

Did the inaugural DL ATL-KIN have some kind of mechanical or bird strike?

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 136): Did the inaugural DL ATL-KIN have some kind of mechanical or bird strike?

Aircraft is still in KIN..Another aircraft is being ferried from ATL, that will depart later tonight..

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9935

DOT Stats


BW

FLL-KIN
4620-3420 74%

KIN-FLL
4774-4032 84%

FLL-MBJ
4928-3270 66%

MBJ-FLL
4774-3467 73%

JFK-KIN
4774-4199 88%

KIN-JFK
4774-4759 99%

JFK-MBJ
5082-4513 88%

MBJ-JFK
5082-4935 97%

MCO-KIN
1386-892 64%

KIN-MCO
1386-1040 75%

AA

DFW-MBJ
3300-3004 91%

MBJ-DFW
3150-2941 93%

MIA-KIN
13950-11552 83%

KIN-MIA
13800-12506 91%

MIA-MBJ
13936-12499 90%

MBJ-MIA
13936-12569 90%

ORD-MBJ
1184-1041 88%

MBJ-ORD
1184-1122 95%

B6

FLL-KIN
5950-4995 84%

KIN-FLL
5950-5378 90%.After more than one year of operating the route, B6 has become the market leader on the KIN-FLL route.

JFK-KIN
4650-3909 84%

KIN-JFK
4650-4309 93%

JFK-MBJ
5700-5229 92%

MBJ-JFK
5700-5391 95%

MCO-MBJ
3350-2787 83%

MBJ-MCO
3350-2784 83%

UA

EWR-MBJ
1309-1219 93%

MBJ-EWR
1309-1260 96%

IAD-MBJ
576-475 82%

MBJ-IAD
576-536 93%

IAH-MBJ
2004-1725 86%

MBJ-IAH
2004-1790 89%

DL

ATL-MBJ
15818-14118 89%

MBJ-ATL
15817-14108 89%

JFK-MBJ
4820-4217 87%

MBJ-JFK
4820-4420 92% .Since the relaunch of this service, DL lfs has never dipped below 75%.


F9

ORD-MBJ
672-523 78%

MBJ-ORD
672-497 74%

STL-MBJ
828-719 86%

MBJ-STL
828-634 77%

NK

FLL-KIN
1885-1325 70%

KIN-FLL
1885-1525 81% Not bad for the first month of their seasonal service..So despite all the bad press, they do seem to hold their own in KIN..

FLL-MBJ
3480-3043 87%

MBJ-FLL
3480-3080 89%

US

CLT-MBJ
16744-14289 85%

MBJ-CLT
16568-14183 86%

PHL-MBJ
9147-8142 89%

MBJ-PHL
9147-8383 92%


FL

I heard SW will operate flights into MBJ replacing FL starting next May..

ATL-MBJ
4247-3695 87%

MBJ-ATL
4247-3580 84%

BWI-MBJ
6576-6038 92%

MBJ-BWI
6576-5711 87%

MCO-MBJ
3014-2612 87%

MBJ-MCO
3014-2636 87%

MDW-MBJ
2740-2083 76%

MBJ-MDW
2740-2174 79%


SY ( FJM)

JFK-KIN
1620-877 54%

KIN-JFK
1620-1201 74%

Quoting guyanam (Reply 126): The USA is being a bully

Agree. This DL/GEO issue is a classic example of that.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 134): Travel Services, Czech Republic will return to MBJ this winter operating a Prague-MBJ-CUN-Prague utilizing a B738.. Assuming there will be a fuel stop on both transatlantic legs..

Most likely. That would be quite a streach for the B738.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 134): JetAirFly, Belgium has delayed their B788 services to MBJ until Jan..Yesterday's flight was operated by an A340 eff 01JAN14 Brussels %u2013 Punta Cana %u2013 Montego Bay %u2013 Brussels 2 weekly (Previously scheduled on 21DEC13)

Wasn't aware that they were planning to deploy their B787 to MBJ. Good to see another carrier using that metal to Sangster. Also good to have the A340 around again. Gone are the days when AC used them down there.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 138): B6 FLL-KIN 5950-4995 84% KIN-FLL 5950-5378 90%.After more than one year of operating the route, B6 has become the market leader on the KIN-FLL route.

Pretty impressive considering the slow start they had initially on that route. Lets see how their proposed FLL-MBJ flights will do.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 138): DL ATL-MBJ 15818-14118 89% MBJ-ATL 15817-14108 89% JFK-MBJ 4820-4217 87% MBJ-JFK 4820-4420 92% .Since the relaunch of this service, DL lfs has never dipped below 75%.

As usual they have ATL-MBJ locked. Yes their JFK-MBJ re-intoduction seems to be doing quite well. Good for them.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 138): NK FLL-KIN 1885-1325 70% KIN-FLL 1885-1525 81% Not bad for the first month of their seasonal service..So despite all the bad press, they do seem to hold their own in KIN..

That carrier must be doing something right and seem to always shrug off the bad rap, criticisms etc.

VS operated their A346 into MBJ last night...

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VIR9948

Is this the first A346 landing in MBJ?

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XL has resumed their seasonal ORY-MBJ service..

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/XLF52

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DL's aircraft that went tech in KIN, is being ferried to ATL..

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9933

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Another WG service into KIN..

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWG2716

I have never seen, so many weekly seats into KIN..

---------------------------------------------------------------

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 139): Wasn't aware that they were planning to deploy their B787 to MBJ. Good to see another carrier using that metal to Sangster. Also good to have the A340 around again. Gone are the days when AC used them down there.

I wish we had some spotters in MBJ to furnish the thread with photos..

I believe the A343 is a short term wet lease from HiFly.. Aircraft is CS-TQZ..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 139): Pretty impressive considering the slow start they had initially on that route. Lets see how their proposed FLL-MBJ flights will do.

I agree...
But, KIN-FLL is a teething route for B6 due to issues with onboard baggage.If FJM were to start the route, they would quickly steal market share..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 139): As usual they have ATL-MBJ locked. Yes their JFK-MBJ re-intoduction seems to be doing quite well. Good for them.

Hopefully, we will see an upgrade to a B757 for next summer/winter..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 139): That carrier must be doing something right and seem to always shrug off the bad rap, criticisms etc.

They are big with ICIs.

This is an illustration of how the KIN market is segmented..

1 Brand loyalists.

2. Undecided.

3.Cheap bargain hunters.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 140): VS operated their A346 into MBJ last night... http://flightaware.com/live/flight/V...R9948

Was that one of their usual scheduled flights into MBJ ? Flight number looks quite unusual. Usually they operate as VS 65 inbound and VS 66 outbound ( or the other way around ; can't remember ) . But I have never seen a VS 9948 designation. Usually VS operate with 2 or 3 digit flight numbers for their global destinations.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 140): XL has resumed their seasonal ORY-MBJ service..

Good that they are still at MBJ seasonally.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 140): I agree... But, KIN-FLL is a teething route for B6 due to issues with onboard baggage.If FJM were to start the route, they would quickly steal market share..

Guess that will be the next city on OJ's route map.

This weekend, MBJ saw two AB flights, one from DUS, the other from MUC..

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BER7401

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BER7357

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
F9 inaugurated their seasonal DEN-MBJ service yesterday..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

OAG Changes..

OAG Changes 12/27/2013: AA/DL/UA/WN (by enilria Dec 23 2013 in Civil Aviation)

AA DFW-MBJ MAY 0.7>0.9 JUN 0.7>1.1 JUL 0.7>1.1 AUG 0.7>1.0

AA MIA-KIN JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4


OJ JFK-GEO JAN 0>0.2 FEB 0>0.1 MAR 0>0.1 APR 0>0.1 MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2
OJ JFK-KIN JAN 0>0.5 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.5 APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4 JUN 0>0.5 JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.4

UA ORD-MBJ JUN 0.1>0.3
UA EWR-MBJ APR 0.7>0.8

WN MDW-MBJ APR 0.4>0.6

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 141): Was that one of their usual scheduled flights into MBJ ? Flight number looks quite unusual. Usually they operate as VS 65 inbound and VS 66 outbound ( or the other way around ; can't remember ) . But I have never seen a VS 9948 designation. Usually VS operate with 2 or 3 digit flight numbers for their global destinations.

Perhaps, it was a charter..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 141): Guess that will be the next city on OJ's route map.

Am hoping it will happen by summer 14..

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 142): This weekend, MBJ saw two AB flights, one from DUS, the other from MUC..

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 142): F9 inaugurated their seasonal DEN-MBJ service yesterday..

We are on target to having a record breaking winter season this year according to projections.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 142): Am hoping it will happen by summer 14..

I am almost certain FLL will be their next stop.


Saw some cool photos of OJ's inaugural YYZ-KIN flight last Wednesday afternoon..................








Meal service looks great, but for some reason that photo isn't uploading. Can't wait to fly with them....................

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 143):

What are their loads like to JFK during non peak periods?

I think I forgot to mention , Thomson Tui flew their Dreamliner into MBJ from ARN..This will be the second airline operating a new route into MBJ from ARN..The other carrier being, Thomas Cook Scandinavia, who operates their A330 on a 14 days rotation..

The Thomson dream liner is the second Scandinavian inaugural flight from Stockholm to Montego Bay in just under a month. The airline will make trips between the two cities on a 10-day rotation basis leading up to the end of the winter tourist season on April 15. On November 23, tourism officials welcomed the Thomas Cook Scandinavian airline from Stockholm.

Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/weste...it-Jamaica-_15662436#ixzz2oPJ3juH3

http://www.westernmirror.com/index.php/permalink/6525.html

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20131224/news/news6.html


Also, new JTB targets for 2014..

The Jamaica Tourist Board (JTB) will, in 2014, be expanding its marketing campaign in Brazil, Russia, India and China, (BRIC) countries and, by extension, South Africa.

This is in an effort to give brand Jamaica an even greater presence in the global marketplace as well as to increase the island's potential from tourism earnings.

The move to expand into the BRIC countries has come on the heels of what has been described as a successful marketing drive undertaken in the Scandinavian market.

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20131224/news/news5.html



Hopefully, we will see a LAX or SFO service..

Quote: "We have foot soldiers who are pounding the sidewalks daily in the traditional markets, as well as new and emerging markets in Latin America and Europe and some areas in the United States and Canada that are untapped. We are always on the road and always negotiating with airline companies to get flights to service these routes into Jamaica." "The more flights we negotiate, the more passengers we will have coming into Jamaica to experience our culture, food, attractions, and a diverse accommodation sector," Scott said.

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Quoting airjamaica (Reply 143): Saw some cool photos of OJ's inaugural YYZ-KIN flight last Wednesday afternoon..................

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 143): Meal service looks great, but for some reason that photo isn't uploading. Can't wait to fly with them....................

Congrats to OJ on this new service..Hopefully, next summer will see an expanded s

BTW..OJ operated an extra segment to JFK this morning..The aircraft will return to KIN and operate to YYZ, this evening..

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 145): Hopefully, we will see a LAX or SFO service..

THe problem with SFO and LAX to Jamaica is that those routes essentially fly over the mega IAH and DFW hubs for those carriers so the yields better be stellar to justify doing so. Unfortunately west coast usa to the caribbean is much weaker than east coast (tourism wise)….

Tourism studies have found that west coast people if they want beach prefer to go to Hawaii than the caribbean….however they do like adventure, hence the popularity of destinations like LIR with them. Its a similar situation to East coast USA and Hawaii. East coast people prefer to go south that head west.

UA, AA and DL will need to see evidence of year round VFR / J demand (like they have to GUA, BZE, LIR, SJO) to justify those flights or the JTB will need to bust out its checkbook to get service.

I suspect it is probably at the checkbook phase by now.

Happy Holidays to all my Jamaican friends!

Quoting guyanam (Reply 144): What are their loads like to JFK during non peak periods?

Don't have specific figures at my disposal, but what I do know is that they usually reduce frequency during the slow periods to match lower demand.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 145): Congrats to OJ on this new service..Hopefully, next summer will see an expanded service

More than likely they will increase the YYZ frequency as their fleet grow.

Merry Christmas to everyone..

Later, I will try to post the DOT Stats for Jun13..Some interesting stats appearing for KIN..

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 145): BTW..OJ operated an extra segment to JFK this morning..The aircraft will return to KIN and operate to YYZ, this evening..

To correct my previous statement, their was a scheduling error on the NMIA website..Yesterday, OJ operated KIN-JFK-KIN..No service operated to YYZ, which means the aircraft will not operate till Thurs..

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 146): Tourism studies have found that west coast people if they want beach prefer to go to Hawaii than the caribbean….however they do like adventure, hence the popularity of destinations like LIR with them. Its a similar situation to East coast USA and Hawaii. East coast people prefer to go south that head west.

Correct, but from what I am told, a nonstop service would allow market expansion..

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 146): I suspect it is probably at the checkbook phase by now.

Lol..

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 146): Happy Holidays to all my Jamaican friends!

Happy Holidays to you too..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 147): Don't have specific figures at my disposal, but what I do know is that they usually reduce frequency during the slow periods to match lower demand.

For some unknown reason, their stats are not showing on the DOT monthly reports..

DOT Stats, Jun 2013...

KIN

BW

FLL-KIN
4928-4547 92%

KIN-FLL
4928-3980 81%

JFK-KIN
4928-4718 96%

KIN-JFK
4928-4825 98%

MCO-KIN
1232-1058 86%

KIN-MCO
1232-855 69%

B6

JFK-KIN
6150-5454 89%

KIN-JFK
6000-5446 91%

FLL-KIN
6050-5369 89%

KIN-FLL
5750-5155 90%

AA

MIA-KIN
16344-14513 89%..Not bad for 4 flights a day..This service returns next year to last from Jun-Aug14.

KIN-MIA
16196-13646 84%

NK

FLL-KIN
2610-2142 82%

KIN-FLL
2610-1877 72%

***********************************************************************************

MBJ

BW

FLL-MBJ
4620-4234 92%

MBJ-FLL
4620-3771 82%

JFK-MBJ
4774-4385 92%

MBJ-JFK
4774-4142 87%

AA

DFW-MBJ
4498-4246 94%

MBJ-DFW
4498-4201 94%

MIA-MBJ
14152-13478 96%

MBJ-MIA
14126-12785 91%

ORD-MBJ
1036-924 90%

MBJ-ORD
888-826 93%

DL

ATL-MBJ
19724-18100 92%

MBJ-ATL
19576-17169 88%

JFK-MBJ
4800-4321 90%

MBJ-JFK
4800-4048 84%

SY

DFW-MBJ
1296-961 74%

MBJ-DFW
1296-834 64%

US

CLT-MBJ
17381-15033 86%

MBJ-CLT
17133-14677 86%

PHL-MBJ
10714-9733 91%

MBJ-PHL
10527-9169 87%

B6

JFK-MBJ
7500-6971 93%

MBJ-JFK
7500-6802 91%

MCO-MBJ
3000-2678 89%

MBJ-MCO
3000-2470 82%

F9

ORD-MBJ
840-807 96%

MBJ-ORD
840-808 96%

STL-MBJ
1242-1097 88%

MBJ-STL
1242-1100 89%

FL

ATL-MBJ
4110-3883 94%

MBJ-ATL
4110-3675 89%

BWI-MBJ
8220-7940 97%

MBJ-BWI
8220-7398 90%

MCO-MBJ
4110-3872 94%

MBJ-MCO
4110-3785 92%

MDW-MBJ
2329-2289 98%

MBJ-MDW
2329-2217 95%

UA

EWR-MBJ
995-921 93%..Strange to see such low frequencies in June.

MBJ-EWR
995-925 93%

IAD-MBJ
766-682 89%

MBJ-IAD
812-725 89%

IAH-MBJ
4913-4544 93%

MBJ-IAH
4913-4552 93%

ORD-MBJ
668-639 96%

MBJ-ORD
622-556 89%

NK

FLL-MBJ
3368-3204 95%

MBJ-FLL
3190-2932 92%