Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
cloudboy
Topic Author
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:38 pm

MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:59 am

What are Orlando's top O/D city pairs? How would one find that out. I have been able to find top destinations, but that may show connections.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
tjh8402
Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:20 am

MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:24 am

I have no hard numbers to go by, but if I had to guess, I'd say New York metro area, San Juan, or London.
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3916
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:56 am

I'd say GRU and GIG are high on the list, too.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4749
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:04 am

internationally Toronto, London, Manchester

Wiki says: but this includes connections

1 Atlanta, Georgia 1,312,000 AirTran, Delta, Southwest
2 New York, New York (JFK) 694,000 American, Delta, JetBlue
3 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 667,000 AirTran, Southwest, US Airways
4 Newark, New Jersey 649,000 JetBlue, United
5 Detroit, Michigan 539,000 AirTran, Delta, Southwest, Spirit
6 Miami, Florida 501,000 American, Delta
7 Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas 501,000 American, Spirit
8 Chicago, IL (O'Hare) 486,000 American, Spirit, United
9 Charlotte, NC 470,000 AirTran, US Airways
10 Baltimore, Maryland 451,000 AirTran, Southwest
 
RushmoreAir
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:29 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:00 am

The DOT Consumer Airfare Report - Table 6 is a good place to look for domestic Origin & Destination PDEW numbers:

http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-p...stic-airline-fares-consumer-report

It looks like the top 3 for Q1 2013 were:

4490 PDEW - New York City region
2419 PDEW - Boston/Providence region
2258 PDEW - Washington DC region

[Edited 2013-09-17 22:05:03]
NW UA DL F9 CO WN LO QF FI AC MU CA EU LH LX DY B6 AA HA NZ MW HU U2 SK AF EK IB HX WS G4 AZ IG 4B

The views and opinions as expressed in this post are entirely my own and are not those of my employer, Hawaiian Airlines, Inc
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5952
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:06 pm

NYC
NYC
NYC
NYC

Seriously, any major city in Florida..the number one destination is always NYC.

Atlanta is even close...it is high with connectors.
 
0newair0
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:56 pm

MCO 2013 (Jan-May) O&D numbers...

ATL…..1087683
JFK…..588154
PHL…..569491
EWR…..563383
DTW…..474540
CLT…..441106
DFW…..435180
ORD…..416339
MIA…..395529
BWI…..392971
LGA…..376024
BOS…..374858
DCA…..361987
MSP…..356646
DEN…..328187
SJU…..325494
MDW…..307004
IAH…..295709
LAX…..258143
PVD…..249308
BUF…..216767
BDL…..190411
IAD…..168303
PIT…..165905
PHX…..164375
STL…..147061
IND…..136140
MKE…..133951
BNA…..132353
SFO…..129055
HOU…..127791
ISP…..126198
CMH…..119521
RDU…..116370
MSY…..114573
CLE…..111248
CVG…..109686
HPN…..105335
MHT…..102457
LAS…..92752
FLL…..92359
SLC…..91758
MCI…..89871
AUS…..87347
MEM…..82874
ALB…..82868
ACY…..79695
SEA…..64304
SYR…..61833
CAK…..61131
BHM…..59175
RIC…..56230
ROC…..53314
ORF…..50462
SAN…..42776
BQN…..40299
DAY…..39196
SWF…..38700
LBE…..36102
GRR…..34082
PSE…..33742
SDF…..31873
SAT…..30380
EYW…..29673
MDT…..28466
FNT…..26549
ABQ…..26160
DAL…..23864
JAN…..23060
GSP…..22571
TTN…..20520
OMA…..18671
BMI…..16864
ABE…..16822
OKC…..14659
GSO…..12165
PNS…..11574
SHD…..10136
COU…..9378
LIT…..8996
GRB…..6711
LAN…..6594
LGB…..4684
PDX…..3676
BKG…..3659
MSN…..3560
COS…..2928
SMF…..2228
OAK…..1688
AVP…..1509
RDG…..940
GNV…..923
SNA…..902
XNA…..825
TUL…..802
SJC…..713
BOI…..663
DSM…..658
TYS…..653
TPA…..616
JAX…..602
PWM…..576
LNK…..453
RSW…..436
PBI…..403
MCN…..358
LBB…..348
LNS…..274
LAL…..272
GEG…..255
CRP…..247
BUR…..223
RNO…..135
RFD…..126
CHS…..123
ELP…..109
HNL…..102
PTK…..96
MAF…..76
ICT…..57
AMA…..50
BED…..31
FSD…..25
CRW…..21
AGS…..16
HDN…..7
MFE…..5
HRL…..4
HSV…..3
BZN…..3
PSP…..2
BTV…..2
GJT…..2
ITO…..2
JAC…..2
KOA…..1
GUC…..1

[Edited 2013-09-18 05:56:47]
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
cloudboy
Topic Author
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:38 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:02 pm

Quoting RushmoreAir (Reply 4):
The DOT Consumer Airfare Report - Table 6 is a good place to look for domestic Origin & Destination PDEW numbers:

http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-p...stic-airline-fares-consumer-report

It looks like the top 3 for Q1 2013 were:

4490 PDEW - New York City region
2419 PDEW - Boston/Providence region
2258 PDEW - Washington DC region

[Edited 2013-09-17 22:05:03]

Thanks! That is the kind of link I was looking for!
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:21 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 6):
MCO 2013 (Jan-May) O&D numbers...

Where's LGW in this list. With BA 10 x 772 per week and VS double daily it should be there somewhere.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10157
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:22 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 6):
MCO 2013 (Jan-May) O&D numbers...

ATL…..1087683
JFK…..588154
PHL…..569491

That looks like it may include connections. It's not surprise with ATL, JFK, PHL being major hubs for DL, B6, US.
And it contradicts this:

Quoting RushmoreAir (Reply 4):
The DOT Consumer Airfare Report - Table 6 is a good place to look for domestic Origin & Destination PDEW numbers:

http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-p...stic-airline-fares-consumer-report

It looks like the top 3 for Q1 2013 were:

4490 PDEW - New York City region
2419 PDEW - Boston/Providence region
2258 PDEW - Washington DC region
 
YQBexYHZBGM
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 3:11 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:49 pm

The O&D list is domestic only, so major international points of origin (e.g., LHR, LGW, YYZ, YUL) are not shown.

As far as NYC-originating traffic being dominant in all Florida cities, that isn't necessarily the case. While it is almost certainly true for certain East Coast destinations such as PBI, FLL and Boca Raton, in my experience fewer New York residents travel to destinations on the West Coast of Florida, including TPA. In these markets, residents of the Chicago and Detroit metro areas, and the state of Ohio as a whole, seem to be predominant.

Al
 
Airontario
Posts: 690
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:04 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:34 pm

Quoting YQBexYHZBGM (Reply 10):
As far as NYC-originating traffic being dominant in all Florida cities, that isn't necessarily the case. While it is almost certainly true for certain East Coast destinations such as PBI, FLL and Boca Raton, in my experience fewer New York residents travel to destinations on the West Coast of Florida, including TPA. In these markets, residents of the Chicago and Detroit metro areas, and the state of Ohio as a whole, seem to be predominant.

I noticed this as well. My parents have a time-share condo in SRQ. Every family that is there is from the Midwest. Ohio,Michigan, Illinois, and Minnesota. I guess the I-95 vs. I-75 locations in Florida still hold true.
 
0newair0
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:40 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 8):
Where's LGW in this list. With BA 10 x 772 per week and VS double daily it should be there somewhere.

That was domestic only.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 9):
That looks like it may include connections. It's not surprise with ATL, JFK, PHL being major hubs for DL, B6, US.
And it contradicts this:

It does include connections. Here's Q1 with connections excluded.

1. New York City, NY (Metro Area)…..799220
2. Boston, MA (Metro Area)…..430582
3. Washington, DC (Metro Area)…..401924
4. Chicago, IL…..310254
5. Philadelphia, PA…..251870
6. Detroit, MI…..207192
7. Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN…..188502
8. Los Angeles, CA (Metro Area)…..166074
9. Atlanta, GA (Metro Area)…..150766
10. Buffalo, NY…..144358
11. Dallas/Fort Worth, TX…..139374
12. Denver, CO…..128872
13. Pittsburgh, PA…..115878
14. Hartford, CT…..113208
15. Milwaukee, WI…..101994
16. Houston, TX…..100392
17. San Francisco, CA (Metro Area)…..94518
18. Indianapolis, IN…..94340
19. Cleveland, OH (Metro Area)…..90602
20. Columbus, OH…..83482
21. St. Louis, MO…..81168
22. Raleigh/Durham, NC…..65148
23. Kansas City, MO…..64614
24. Albany, NY…..62122
25. Las Vegas, NV…..60520
26. Seattle, WA…..59808
27. Nashville, TN…..59452
28. Phoenix, AZ…..58562
29. Syracuse, NY…..56604
30. New Orleans, LA…..54824
31. Charlotte, NC…..51798
32. Austin, TX…..49128
33. Rochester, NY…..48950
34. Salt Lake City, UT…..43610
35. San Diego, CA…..43432
36. Richmond, VA…..42186
37. Cincinnati, OH…..42008
38. Atlantic City, NJ…..40940
39. Miami, FL (Metro Area)…..40762
40. Omaha, NE…..39516
41. Grand Rapids, MI…..38626
42. Norfolk, VA (Metro Area)…..37024
43. Dayton, OH…..34710
44. Birmingham, AL…..34354
45. Memphis, TN…..34354
46. San Antonio, TX…..30260
47. Louisville, KY…..29904
48. Portland, OR…..29192
49. Flint, MI…..26344
50. Harrisburg, PA…..24742
51. Portland, ME…..24030
52. Allentown/Bethlehem Area…..22428
53. Sacramento, CA…..20114
54. Oklahoma City, OK…..19224
55. Burlington, VT…..18156
56. Latrobe, PA…..17800
57. Greenville/Spartanburg, SC…..16732
58. Jackson/Vicksburg, MS…..16198
59. Des Moines, IA…..16198
60. Greensboro/High Point, NC…..16020
61. Madison, WI…..14774
62. Little Rock, AR…..12994
63. Albuquerque, NM…..12994
64. Bloomington/Normal, IL…..12816
65. Tulsa, OK…..11748
66. Knoxville, TN…..9612
67. Trenton, NJ…..9434
68. Wichita, KS…..9434
69. Colorado Springs, CO…..9256
70. Bangor, ME…..8010
71. Huntsville, AL…..7654
72. Lansing, MI…..7654
73. Reno, NV…..7654
74. Spokane, WA…..7476
75. Boise, ID…..7476
76. El Paso, TX…..7476
77. Fayetteville, AR…..7120
78. Staunton, VA…..6764
79. Quad Cities, IL (Metro Area)…..6230
80. Sioux Falls, SD…..6230
81. Jefferson City/Columbia, MO…..6052
82. Tucson, AZ…..5874
83. Lexington, KY…..5518
84. Fargo, ND…..5162
85. Fresno, CA…..4984
86. Charleston/Dunbar, WV…..4984
87. Cedar Rapids/Iowa City, IA…..4450
88. Branson, Missouri…..4450
89. Key West, FL…..4450
90. Charleston, SC…..4094
91. Wilmington, NC…..4094
92. Green Bay, WI…..3560
93. Binghamton, NY…..3382
94. Bismarck/Mandan, ND…..3382
95. Baton Rouge, LA…..3382
96. Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, PA…..3204
97. Lubbock, TX…..3204
98. Minot, ND…..3204
99. Elmira/Corning, NY…..3026
100. Billings, MT…..2848
101. Bozeman, MT…..2848
102. Roanoke, VA…..2848
103. Appleton, WI…..2670
104. Shreveport, LA…..2670
105. Santa Barbara, CA…..2670
106. Traverse City, MI…..2670
107. Lafayette, LA…..2670
108. Palm Springs, CA…..2670
109. Fayetteville, NC…..2492
110. Midland/Odessa, TX…..2492
111. Springfield, MO…..2492
112. Fort Wayne, IN…..2492
113. Salisbury, MD…..2492
114. Myrtle Beach, SC…..2492
115. Corpus Christi, TX…..2492
116. Wausau/Mosinee/Stevens Point, WI…..2492
117. Gulfport/Biloxi, MS…..2314
118. Erie, PA…..2314
119. Lynchburg, VA…..2314
120. Mission/McAllen/Edinburg, TX…..2314
121. Amarillo, TX…..2314
122. Columbia, SC…..2314
123. Pensacola, FL…..2314
124. Charlottesville, VA…..2314
125. Asheville, NC…..2136
126. Bristol/Johnson City/Kingsport, TN…..2136
127. Philipsburg/State College, PA…..2136
128. Chattanooga, TN…..2136
129. Pasco/Kennewick/Richland, WA…..1958
130. Jacksonville/Camp Lejeune, NC…..1958
131. Harlingen/San Benito, TX…..1958
132. Killeen, TX…..1958
133. Kalamazoo, MI…..1958
134. Augusta, GA…..1958
135. Rapid City, SD…..1958
136. Saginaw/Bay City/Midland, MI…..1958
137. Duluth, MN…..1780
138. Peoria, IL…..1780
139. Alexandria, LA…..1780
140. Ithaca/Cortland, NY…..1780
141. Evansville, IN…..1780
142. Steamboat Springs, CO…..1602
143. Eugene, OR…..1602
144. Fort Smith, AR…..1602
145. Eagle, CO…..1602
146. New Bern/Morehead/Beaufort, NC…..1602
147. La Crosse, WI…..1424
148. Panama City, Florida…..1424
149. South Bend, IN…..1424
150. Ashland, WV…..1424
151. Monroe, LA…..1424
152. Jackson, WY…..1424
153. Greenville, NC…..1246
154. Grand Forks, ND…..1246
155. Salinas/Monterey, CA…..1246
156. Grand Junction, CO…..1246
157. Montgomery, AL…..1246
158. Missoula, MT…..1246
159. Aspen, CO…..1246
160. Great Falls, MT…..1246
161. Durango, CO…..1246
162. Bend/Redmond, OR…..1068
163. Kalispell, MT…..1068
164. Tyler, TX…..1068
165. Medford, OR…..1068
166. Helena, MT…..1068
167. Mobile, AL…..1068
168. Sault Ste. Marie, MI…..1068
169. Lincoln, NE…..1068
170. Bakersfield, CA…..1068
171. Valparaiso, FL…..890
172. Montrose/Delta, CO…..890
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6691
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:55 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 6):
ROC…..53314

Not bad for 1 daily 717 (back then)
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
YQBexYHZBGM
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 3:11 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:58 pm

Quoting Airontario (Reply 11):
I guess the I-95 vs. I-75 locations in Florida still hold true.

Exactly. Traditional destination patterns that developed during the era of family road trips have remained. In addition, trailer / RV travel remains far more prevalent among midwesterners than among NYers, so the I-75 destinations (plus The Mouse, of course) remain more popular for this crowd. Since my family was from the Southern Tier of NY State (between BGM and ELM), we ended up vacationing with the midwesterners rather than the NYC people on the East Coast.

But, getting back on topic, I don't know how practical it would be to analyze the actual O/D traffic to MCO by removing the hub effect. It would almost involve going into each airline's reservation system and finding the true point of origin of each passenger to MCO, rather than the hub from which they arrived on the final leg of their journey.

While there are certainly folks from ATL who take their kids to visit The Mouse just like anyone else, I can't see ATL itself (minus incoming hub traffic) generating the numbers that are shown in the O/D list. Business travel between ATL and MCO is a different story entirely, but I know if I had a family with 2+ kids and lived in or near ATL, I'd be driving to Orlando to see The Mouse, not flying.

Al
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4749
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:32 pm

Quoting RushmoreAir (Reply 4):
It looks like the top 3 for Q1 2013 were:

4490 PDEW - New York City region
2419 PDEW - Boston/Providence region
2258 PDEW - Washington DC region

Alot of snowbirds raising those numbers up. February is much warmer and sunnier in Florida than Florida, New York.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10157
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:12 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
Alot of snowbirds raising those numbers up. February is much warmer and sunnier in Florida than Florida, New York.

Snowbirds don't travel back and forth every week. In fact a lot of them drive. You can see the line of FL plates coming up I-95 in the Spring and then going down in the Fall. What creates high volume of O&D traffic is leisure and business travel.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8017
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting YQBexYHZBGM (Reply 14):
I don't know how practical it would be to analyze the actual O/D traffic to MCO by removing the hub effect. It would almost involve going into each airline's reservation system and finding the true point of origin of each passenger to MCO, rather than the hub from which they arrived on the final leg of their journey.

The DOT Table 6 data referenced repeatedly above show O&D.

I'd love to see the data - Florida state tourism board, step up! - showing the fraction of domestic travelers to Florida arriving by trailer/RV. It's not 1965.
 
YQBexYHZBGM
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 3:11 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:20 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 17):
The DOT Table 6 data referenced repeatedly above show O&D.

My apologies, I was already preparing my last post when the DOT Table 6 was posted. Still wondering about O/D counts from Canada and overseas, which may actually exceed counts for a substantial number of US cities.

Al
 
usairways85
Posts: 4156
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:01 pm

With the way these tables group Metro Areas it doesn't necessarily point out specific city-pairs. In city pairs MCO-PHL is up in there but factoring in metro areas it drops back quite a bit.

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 12):
Here's Q1 with connections excluded.

Q1 is misleading because there is an exodus to Florida, MCO included, from the northeast in the March(Q1)/April(Q2) time frame.

Q1
ORD 310254
PHL 251870

Q1 & 2
PHL…..569491
ORD…..416339
 
BoeingMerica
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:39 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:50 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 3):
6 Miami, Florida 501,000 American, Delta

DL does not fly MCO-MIA or vice versa

BoeingMerica
I like my Barack like I like my vegetables, I hate vegetables
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4749
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:07 pm

Quoting BoeingMerica (Reply 20):
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 3):
6 Miami, Florida 501,000 American, Delta

DL does not fly MCO-MIA or vice versa

BoeingMerica

Clearly i pasted off wiki as i clearly said. We all know it has little things incorrect.
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2220
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:54 pm

How do those DOT tables work? Do they have to be combined to get the whole picture?
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
PRAirbus
Posts: 738
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:59 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:58 am

SJU has to be high on the list; B6, NK, SW all have multiple daily flights between MCO-SJU-MCO.
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:36 am

Quoting YQBexYHZBGM (Reply 10):

As far as NYC-originating traffic being dominant in all Florida cities, that isn't necessarily the case. While it is almost certainly true for certain East Coast destinations such as PBI, FLL and Boca Raton, in my experience fewer New York residents travel to destinations on the West Coast of Florida, including TPA. In these markets, residents of the Chicago and Detroit metro areas, and the state of Ohio as a whole, seem to be predominant.
Quoting Airontario (Reply 11):

I noticed this as well. My parents have a time-share condo in SRQ. Every family that is there is from the Midwest. Ohio,Michigan, Illinois, and Minnesota. I guess the I-95 vs. I-75 locations in Florida still hold true.

I'm not sure about that.

Top 5 O+D for Tampa Q1 2013

all PDEW numbers

NYC 2070
WAS 1420
BOS 1114
CHI 993
PHL 833

DTW is a close 6 with 804

Top 6 O+D for SRQ Q1 2013

NYC 368
BOS 171
CHI 106
WAS 103
ATL 92

DTW was also 6 with 73

There's a reason why B6 serves SRQ-JFK/BOS and SRQ-ORD only recently started.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3024
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:39 am

A little info to hopefully clarify things....

An O+D passenger is one who starts in AAA and ends in BBB regardless of how they get there -- nonstop, direct (one or more stops but no change of planes) or connections.

What we often see is local nonstop passenger, and that's nearly always what's on Wiki. That's what this list posted from Wiki definitely is:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 3):
1 Atlanta, Georgia 1,312,000 AirTran, Delta, Southwest
2 New York, New York (JFK) 694,000 American, Delta, JetBlue
3 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 667,000 AirTran, Southwest, US Airways
4 Newark, New Jersey 649,000 JetBlue, United
5 Detroit, Michigan 539,000 AirTran, Delta, Southwest, Spirit
6 Miami, Florida 501,000 American, Delta
7 Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas 501,000 American, Spirit
8 Chicago, IL (O'Hare) 486,000 American, Spirit, United
9 Charlotte, NC 470,000 AirTran, US Airways
10 Baltimore, Maryland 451,000 AirTran, Southwest

Atlanta is definitely not the largest flying O+D market from Orlando -- it's only about a 6 hour drive. But it has a massive number of nonstop passengers, and that's why it shows as #1 here by a wide, wide margin. A huge number of those nonstop MCO-ATL passengers are actually connecting onward to Tulsa, to Frankfurt, to Syracuse, to Tokyo, to Roanoke, etc.

From what I've seen, all the Wiki numbers (at least for US airports) listing largest markets from airport XYZ are not O+D but are nonstop passengers. At my home airport (MKE) Wiki lists Chicago as the #7 market from MKE with about 174,000 passengers, more than MKE to Las Vegas and Orlando. In fact nearly zero O+D passengers start in MKE and end in ORD -- it's virtually all connections. Those Wiki numbers are not O+D -- they are onboard nonstop passengers

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 22):
How do those DOT tables work? Do they have to be combined to get the whole picture?

Here are some tips:

--They are a 10% sampling, so they are not perfectly accurate but should be a pretty good representation.

--The passengers numbers are both ways combined. So if you see 330 people between ABC and DEF, that's about 165 each way.

--Table #6 shows all markets in the lower 48 which had at least 10 average passengers (both directions combined) per day.

--Be aware that Table #6 combines airports. Some are relatively obvious, like Houston is both IAH and HOU. But some combinations are less obvious, for example BOS+MHT+PVD are all combined. Off the top of my head I think what's combined are these: [LAX/SNA/LGB/ONT/BUR] [SFO/OAK/SJC], [PHX/AZA], [DAL/DFW], [IAH/HOU], [CHI-MDW], [CLE/CAK], [BOS/MHT/PVD], [LGA/EWR/JFK/HPN/ISP], [BWI/DCA/IAD], [ORF/PHF], [PIE/TPA], [MCO/SFB], [FLL/MIA]. I think that's all of them....apologies if I've made any errors.

--Even more confusing, you may see any of those individual airport codes listed to represent the combined market. So you may not see CLE-IAH but instead see CAK-HOU. That single city pair CAK-HOU actually includes CLE-IAH, CLE-HOU, CAK-IAH and CAK-HOU. It can be confusing and misleading if you're not aware and careful. And even if you are aware it can leave you off balance a bit when you're surprised at the huge number of people who fly HOU-BWI and puzzled why you don't see HOU-DCA, figuring Southwest must clean up on HOU-BWI and that without nonstop service most DCA-bound people use IAH....but then you remember that the huge reported HOU-BWI number is actually everybody from both Houston airports going to all three Washington airports.

--You can go to the table 1a to see the breakdowns of those combined reported markets. In that table you'll find all the city pairs which involved a combined market. You'll see exactly how many actually flew HOU-BWI, HOU-IAD, HOU-DCA, IAH-BWI, IAH-IAD and IAH-DCA. Or how many flew STL-BOS, STL-MHT and STL-PVD, not a single total like table 6 shows you.

--Just to make it a little more complicated, note that some combined reporting for table 6 has pretty much always existed, like Chicago being ORD+MDW. But others are more recent, like combining CLE and CAK. which only happened several quarters ago. So...if your trying to compare CLE-DEN traffic for 2005 versus 2012, you have to be careful because the 2005 listed CLE-DEN separately, but 2012 combines CLE-DEN and CAK-DEN. Heck, you might not even find CLE-DEN in table 6 for 2012 because it could just as easily be called CAK-DEN. But it's the combined CLE-DEN + CAK-DEN no matter what the table calls it.

--There's only one other table I've found useful over the years, and that's table 5. Tables 6 and 1a will give you (a) the total market size, (b) the share and fare of the largest carrier, and (c) the share and fare of the cheapest carrier. At best you'll find two carriers, but sometimes the largest is the cheapest. So while Chicago-Philadelphia is served by WN, UA, AA and US, in a given quarter maybe UA is largest and FL is cheapest (connection via ATL), so you have no info on WN , AA and US. Table #5 generally shows total passengers for the quarter (not by date but for the whole quarter for "large" carriers in the market. I don't know what their cutoff is, and it's not perfectly consistent. But usually you'll find all the nonstop carriers, and sometimes even a large connecting carrier. This is not perfectly true in all cases, but it can be very handy when you want to do something like compare UA versus AA fares and traffic by market for ORD.

--One last thing to be wary of. Some regional carriers don't show up, even if they are flying for a big-name carrier. Several years back ExpressJet operating as CO* did not show up, so you'd look up a market like CLE-BDL and it would say USAirways was the largest carrier with 13 passengers per day even thought CO* flew CLE-BDL nonstop with multiple RJ's. Chautauqua flying as F9* didn't show up either for several quarters. I have noticed less of this than once was, but be a little careful and wary when looking at smaller markets and things don't look quite right.

Have fun!
 
JBAirwaysFan
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 11:17 pm

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:28 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 24):
There's a reason why B6 serves SRQ-JFK/BOS and SRQ-ORD only recently started.

B6 flies SRQ-JFK/LGA/BOS now.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
User avatar
AVLAirlineFreq
Posts: 1404
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:31 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:35 am

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 6):
MCO 2013 (Jan-May) O&D numbers...

Should we presume these numbers also include SFB?
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8621
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:37 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 24):
There's a reason why B6 serves SRQ-JFK/BOS and SRQ-ORD only recently started.

Damn,....you just got my hopes up!!

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 26):
B6 flies SRQ-JFK/LGA/BOS now.

My suspicion is if they could get more EWR slots, SRQ would see that as well.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
lucky777
Posts: 294
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:40 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:01 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 25):
Atlanta is definitely not the largest flying O+D market from Orlando -- it's only about a 6 hour drive.

More like 8-9 but we're splitting hairs at that point. 6 hours ain't happening unless your doing 100 mph nonstop.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:07 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 3):
1 Atlanta, Georgia 1,312,000 AirTran, Delta, Southwest
2 New York, New York (JFK) 694,000 American, Delta, JetBlue
3 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 667,000 AirTran, Southwest, US Airways
4 Newark, New Jersey 649,000 JetBlue, United
5 Detroit, Michigan 539,000 AirTran, Delta, Southwest, Spirit
6 Miami, Florida 501,000 American, Delta
7 Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas 501,000 American, Spirit
8 Chicago, IL (O'Hare) 486,000 American, Spirit, United
9 Charlotte, NC 470,000 AirTran, US Airways
10 Baltimore, Maryland 451,000 AirTran, Southwest
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 8):
Where's LGW in this list.

Strangely missing but actually # 3 (unless someone in Toronto knows better).

The UK CAA report a total of 674,436 passengers flying between LGW and MCO in 2012.

On the other hand passengers between LHR and MCO totalled only 649. These were the disabled and severely ill kids and their carers on the BA Dreamflight flown by this suitably titled aircraft out on 14 and home on 22 October last:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sergey Rimsha

 
0newair0
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:08 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 27):
Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 6):MCO 2013 (Jan-May) O&D numbers...
Should we presume these numbers also include SFB?

The numbers from post 6 do NOT include SFB.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
User avatar
AVLAirlineFreq
Posts: 1404
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:31 am

RE: MCO Top O/D Traffic Pairs?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 31):
The numbers from post 6 do NOT include SFB.

Interesting. Thanks. That would make some difference in rankings for a handful of domestic and international markets.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos