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FRAborn
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Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:26 am

If this has been discussed, please delete.

What do you think will happen (if anything) to Air Whiskey after the pending US/AA merger?
 
ECAMActions
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Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:44 am

they will probably be dumped.
 
Italianflyer
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Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:09 am

I worked for ZW briefly when furloughed from my airline; some amazing folks there. Sadly, I think that AWAC will become a ground handling operation when the post-merger RPF's are done. Does anyone know what, if anything, AWAC stands to gain from their $175 mil investment in US if the merge happens??
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:13 am

We covered this last month. Might be worth taking a read.

Air Wisconsin Future? (by aa777lvr Aug 2 2013 in Civil Aviation)

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
arielwar
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RE: Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:15 pm

I think if the merger goes thru all these feed carriers will be in limbo, including AE. they havent really said anything about them only news is that they named the presidents that will over see these carriers but no new info on fleet or purpose they will have.
 
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JBo
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RE: Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:38 pm

Since that previous thread is archived, it's not a bad idea to continue the discussion here on a few questions that were left unanswered:

Personally, I think ZW's days are numbered, as are those of any of the other smaller "independent" regionals that aren't part of the larger consortiums (i.e. Republic, SkyWest)

Some people on the older thread proposed ideas of ZW acquiring new aircraft on their own - either larger CRJs or props - to make them more attractive to contract carriers. The problem with this is that the regionals rarely take on the burden of acquiring their own aircraft; most of the time it's the major contract carrier (DL, UA, etc) that orders the aircraft and then places them with the regional, or at the very least provides the financing while the regional acquires the aircraft.

Even if ZW were to acquire aircraft on their own accord, I doubt they have the financial resources to do so. There is a lot of risk in acquiring a new fleet on their own accord if they can't secure the contract flying to pay for it.

The consolidation among the mainline carriers is inevitably going to lead to consolidation among the regionals; we just plain don't need as many players as we used to. I forsee a lot of the "independent" regionals like ZW going by the wayside if they don't merge into one of the larger players simply because there isn't the business available to keep them flying.
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bjorn14
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RE: Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:49 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 5):
The problem with this is that the regionals rarely take on the burden of acquiring their own aircraft;

True but OO and AX are doing it right now.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:25 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 6):
Quoting JBo (Reply 5):
The problem with this is that the regionals rarely take on the burden of acquiring their own aircraft;

True but OO and AX are doing it right now.

As far as fleet planning goes, OO has never let a major finance its planes. Only where it can't be helped do they fly sub-leased planes (AS/Horizon, ComAir birds.)
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apodino
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RE: Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:51 pm

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 2):
I worked for ZW briefly when furloughed from my airline; some amazing folks there. Sadly, I think that AWAC will become a ground handling operation when the post-merger RPF's are done. Does anyone know what, if anything, AWAC stands to gain from their $175 mil investment in US if the merge happens??

Basically, AWAC didn't gain anything from it except for the new flying contract. Eastshore Aviation, which is the finance company that actually provided the capital for the investment (and run by the same people who own ZW), made hundreds of millions of dollars off the deal after LCC's stock appreciated and then the investors at Eastshore cashed out at the top and the profits on the deal were huge. So these guys have had more than enough return on their investment I would say.

The company is a very secret company at the top, and they never tip their hand to anyone, even in the company. I can say these things. One, the rumor around the company is that manuals for CRJ 700's and 900's have been written and training programs developed. What that means, I don't know. Also telling is that US has requested that ZW get qualified to fly CAT II approaches, and has agreed to pay the entire cost of qualifying the crews and the airplanes. I find it strange that US would do this if they don't plan to keep them around past 2015. If there is no future for them past 2015, you would never know it by the training the crews are getting in a lot of new things, plus spending money to get IPad certification and also the aggressive way the company is going to by ready for 117 in January.

Will there be a future after the merger and more specifically 2015? I don't know and can't answer that. The events of recent years would tell us there isn't much. But behind the scenes, there seems to be no indication whatsoever of doom past 2015, and evidence suggests something secret may be in the works or already agreed to. If that is true, the only thing keeping it from being announced is the ALPA contract, and Air Wisconsin is not immune to the whipsawing that has been going on, and that a number of grassroots pilots have started a movement against.

One other thing. I also know Mitsubishi personnel have been regular visitors to ATW in recent months, and they also sponsored a hole at the company golf outing. Jim Rankin, the ZW CEO has also said privately how fond he is of the MRJ. The only issue with the MRJ is I don't think ZW can get them on the property in enough time to start any new contract.

[Edited 2013-09-20 08:58:58]
 
Italianflyer
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RE: Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:41 pm

Thank you Apodino for the insight on ZW's current situation. I really hope that there is a place at the post-merger table for Whisky.
 
saab2000
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RE: Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:44 pm

Everything Apodino says is true.

Very secret company. Likely in good shape financially. Very conservative. Long term planning. 50-seaters will reduced but not eliminated. The CRJ-900 training syllabus does exist. This is not a secret. But it has existed for years, so there's not much to read into that.

I believe ZW has a future beyond ground handling. What that will be is tough to say as the leadership is very, very coy about their plans.

People have been here decades and don't know much. I'm more of a glass-half-full kind of person.
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Goldenshield
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RE: Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:31 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 8):
One other thing. I also know Mitsubishi personnel have been regular visitors to ATW in recent months, and they also sponsored a hole at the company golf outing. Jim Rankin, the ZW CEO has also said privately how fond he is of the MRJ. The only issue with the MRJ is I don't think ZW can get them on the property in enough time to start any new contract.

It's not uncommon for manufacturers to court an airline by touring facilities and flying an aircraft around. Did AW get a visit by the E-190 and E-175 when Embraer was on tour?

As for the MRJ, the timing will be critical. I'm hoping that even my airline can remain confident on the "new" schedule.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
m11stephen
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RE: Future Of Air Wisconsin (ZW) After US/AA Merger?

Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:42 pm

Air Wisconsin doesn't have much ground handling left. They lost roughly 2/3s of their United Express outstations the last time the UAX RFPs came out. Supposedly, they will also lose ground handling in IAD once the UA CS contract is ratified. Currently, they only ground handle 12 UAX stations and 3 US Airways Express stations.
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