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octubre299
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Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:52 pm

Just doing a quick photo search on this page of EGE I was struck by how many of the airlines use the 757 as the choice to serve this airport. Is there a particular reason like altitude, payloads or simply old aircraft for an unpopular airport?

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flyingclrs727
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:57 pm

Altitude and the fact that the 757-200 is overpowered. It also has more seats than a 737-700 or A319.
 
0newair0
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:58 pm

The 757 is used in EGE becuase of it's high preformance takeoff and landing capabilities with a high payload.
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FoxBravo
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:07 pm

Definitely not an unpopular airport! The 757 is the aircraft that can carry the biggest loads of skiers and their equipment out of EGE and still fly nonstop anywhere in the continental US.

Now, as 757s are being retired, airlines are using more 73Gs and A319s there, also for performance reasons--but there is nothing that can match the 757's combination of capacity and performance.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:16 pm

I would take a few look at photos of the terrain nearby. Its very mountainous and high altitude. The 757-200 and 737-700 are the best planes for longer trips. They need that takeoff performance. The A320s and CR7s are fine for the shorter hops to DEN but cant takeoff for the longer trips. As others said its capacity for all that luggage skiiers check in alot compared to your average traveller, and performance all that luggage weighs alot. I would say the average person on board has skis, ski boot bag, and then a large suitcase since all that winter clothes are bulky and heavy.
 
Italianflyer
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:25 pm

I have noticed that over the past decade the frequency of service has really improved. Allot of 1-2X a week segments have expanded to >5 days a week or even daily. I love EGE. Amazing approach and departure scenery and old-school stair boarding/deplaning.
 
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ual747den
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:37 pm

Unpopular? I don't think you will find another airport in such a small area with so much service.

As far as why airlines use the 757, performance. Extreme altitude, extreme conditions, and zero room for mistakes.
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doug_or
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:40 pm

Quoting ual747den (Reply 6):
Unpopular? I don't think you will find another airport in such a small area with so much service.

The point is it is a small airport with a much lower level of service than most airports that would see this number of 757s.
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ckfred
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:47 pm

A friend of mine used to fly to EGE a lot, when he was a 757/767 F/O with AA. The runway is 9000 feet long, but it sits about 6500 feet above sea level. You want to use as little runway as possible at takeoff, because you have to immediately roll the aircraft to the left because of a mountain near the end of the runway.

For a depature to ORD, after rolling left, you then have to turn right and fly around the mountain to get an eastbound heading, all while climbing.

As others have said, the 757 has tremendous performance while carrying more than 190 passengers and crew, an inordimate amount of baggage, as well as mail, cargo, and fuel.

What I'm curious about are AA's plans for EGE, JAC, and other ski resort cities as it retires more 757s. It seems to me that AA might have to add some frequency, since the A319s have about 60 fewer seats.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:29 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 8):
What I'm curious about are AA's plans for EGE, JAC, and other ski resort cities as it retires more 757s. It seems to me that AA might have to add some frequency, since the A319s have about 60 fewer seats.

Yeah but i think it will work out just fine. AA will probably add extra flights on saturdays and holiday times. It will be fine as a random tuesday they might only need the 319 capacity. AA will be able to fine tune it to demand now plus im sure theyll have a few 757s in the fleet for along time.
 
alitis
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:34 pm

I have flown in and out of EGE as a passenger many times. Inbound you are flying in a valley below the mountain tops for about 10 min before landing. Very nice senery. Had an AA pilot tell inform us while at the end of the runway the procedure for takeoff was going to be hold the brake, wait for full thrust, release brakes shoot down the runway and make an immediate left. And boy did we ever blast off! Loved the way the 757 was shaking a bit before brake release!

-Alitis
 
roseflyer
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:39 pm

The climb requirements are rather challenging. A 737-800/900 or A320/A321 would take rather significant payload restrictions that limit range. The 737-700 and A319 can operate there with good performance, but have relatively small cargo compartments which restrict capacity since EGE has a lot of oversized luggage and sport equipment being flown in the cargo bins.
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:45 pm

Another factor is that while both end suffer from obstacle limitations, 25 is the worse of two, despite being the preferred runway due to the localizer.
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TUSAA
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:45 pm

AA will be using the A319 from DFW/LAX to EGE this winter. There may be extra 757s on the weekends from DFW.
 
airbazar
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 11):
The 737-700 and A319 can operate there with good performance, but have relatively small cargo compartments which restrict capacity since EGE has a lot of oversized luggage and sport equipment being flown in the cargo bins.

The airlines are solving that issue with some "social engineering" by charging not only for checked luggage but even more for sports equipment. It's no longer cost effective to carry your own skis when going on a ski vacation. You can rent the latest model ski for an entire week for less than the fee charged by the airline.
 
flymia
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting TUSAA (Reply 13):

AA will be using the A319 from DFW/LAX to EGE this winter. There may be extra 757s on the weekends from DFW.

I assume JFK, MIA LGA, and ORD will remain 757s for a while though.

Also as a note I am pretty sure EGE is a captains only airport, at least for AA which only Captains are allowed to be the flying pilots into EGE. And maybe also out of EGE too?

[Edited 2013-09-19 09:53:37]
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rampart
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:54 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
The airlines are solving that issue with some "social engineering" by charging not only for checked luggage but even more for sports equipment. It's no longer cost effective to carry your own skis when going on a ski vacation. You can rent the latest model ski for an entire week for less than the fee charged by the airline.

That's a good tip. That, and I'd be hesitant to risk my nice skis to the wear and tear of baggage handling.

-Rampart
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:03 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
The airlines are solving that issue with some "social engineering" by charging not only for checked luggage but even more for sports equipment. It's no longer cost effective to carry your own skis when going on a ski vacation. You can rent the latest model ski for an entire week for less than the fee charged by the airline.

AA, DL, UA every single airline that serves EGE does not charge extra for ski equipment. In fact they allow you to check in skis and a boot bag 2 items for the price of one regular piece of luggage. $50 round trip gets you not only your ski boot bag which we all stuff with extra stuff, and your ski bag. You clearly are not a skiier nothing beats your own equipment no one who really skis wants to rent, ever. It takes so many days and hours of work to get boots to fit properly no one wants to rent those. Also have you seen ski rental prices in Vail for good equipment recently? They are more for one day than the airline charges to check.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):

The airlines are solving that issue with some "social engineering" by charging not only for checked luggage but even more for sports equipment. It's no longer cost effective to carry your own skis when going on a ski vacation. You can rent the latest model ski for an entire week for less than the fee charged by the airline

There is some truth to this statement, as it can change the equation. When going on a ski trip, if bringing equipment, one will typically need 2 checked bags. That can easily be $100 - $120 per person roundtrip on bag fees.

Quoting rampart (Reply 16):
That's a good tip. That, and I'd be hesitant to risk my nice skis to the wear and tear of baggage handling.

I have never had an issue with skis being damaged during air travel in the 20 years I've been making trips out west. A decent ski bag, with some items like socks, underwear, or base layers works well as padding inside the bag. I've checked skis on at least 100+ flights without any problems

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
AA, DL, UA every single airline that serves EGE does not charge extra for ski equipment. In fact they allow you to check in skis and a boot bag 2 items for the price of one regular piece of luggage. $50 round trip gets you not only your ski boot bag which we all stuff with extra stuff, and your ski bag. You clearly are not a skiier nothing beats your own equipment no one who really skis wants to rent, ever. It takes so many days and hours of work to get boots to fit properly no one wants to rent those. Also have you seen ski rental prices in Vail for good equipment recently? They are more for one day than the airline charges to check.

Agreed to an extent. You cannot beat your own boots. I have taken trips (usually tagged on to a trip for work) where I've just brought my boots, since it was going to be difficult to lug skis around through multiple cities.

Vail (EGE) does attract skiers from all over the world, and many people come from non-snow climates. Many from Florida, the Southeastern US, South America and may not have their own equipment. If one only goes on one big ski trip each year, the economics actually favor renting decent equipment instead of spending $1000 - $1500 up front to buy high-end skis & boots.

I will say on flights into EGE you never have to worry about not being able to get overhead bin space (unlike say a Monday morning DTW-LGA flight)
 
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting ual747den (Reply 6):
Unpopular? I don't think you will find another airport in such a small area with so much service.

As far as why airlines use the 757, performance. Extreme altitude, extreme conditions, and zero room for mistakes.

Right, which is why he said:

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 3):
Definitely not an unpopular airport!

Double negative. Not an unpopular airport means it is popular...
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:42 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 19):

In fairness I think ual747den was responding back to the first post, rather than mine:

Quoting octubre299 (Thread starter):
simply old aircraft for an unpopular airport?
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Airontario
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:13 pm

This has me wondering. With AC starting YYZ-EGE this winter with a 319, will they be taking a payload hit, to make it to YYZ? What kind of range would a 319 get with full pax and bags out of EGE?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:55 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 18):
Vail (EGE) does attract skiers from all over the world, and many people come from non-snow climates. Many from Florida, the Southeastern US, South America and may not have their own equipment. If one only goes on one big ski trip each year, the economics actually favor renting decent equipment instead of spending $1000 - $1500 up front to buy high-end skis & boots.

That is a very small percentage of the people. The rich south americans all own their own equipment or buy them over priced in vail and have to take them home. Most of the beginners aka families on more of a budget fly into DEN, EGE has a real significant premium most of the time. EGE really caters to the real skiiers or families that are serious about skiing. Fly into EGE and watch how many skis come off it will literally be almost the entire plane. Those planes are chock full of heavy ski equipment any way you look at it.
 
Navion
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:01 pm

The 757 is popular at Vail/Eagle for the same reason the A321 isn't (or the 739)...performance. Vail exposes the greatest difference between the designs.

[Edited 2013-09-19 12:33:33]
 
airbazar
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:48 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
AA, DL, UA every single airline that serves EGE does not charge extra for ski equipment. In fact they allow you to check in skis and a boot bag 2 items for the price of one regular piece of luggage. $50 round trip gets you not only your ski boot bag which we all stuff with extra stuff, and your ski bag. You clearly are not a skiier nothing beats your own equipment no one who really skis wants to rent, ever.

Nonesense. I'll carry my boots but I have no problem renting. I've never flown in and out of EGE so I was going by the generic baggage allowances. Good know that they won't charge extra for EGE, that's a nice exception. And I am a skier who has skied all over the World but i'm not a rich one who can afford to buy a new pair of skis every year. My skis are 6 years old and that's pretty common for your typical weekend worrior so a rented pair of skis will always be better than my own.
 
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting ual747den (Reply 6):

It's true. Good luck flying a dopey 739 into EGE.
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:21 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obNa7Z3i9Jk
 
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william
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:56 pm

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 26):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obNa7Z3i9Jk

From the video its easy to see why takeoff SOP is to turn left, avoid the MOUNTAIN, then procede to fly around and over the mountain.

sarcasm on...............Imagine as a pilot how fun this takeoff must be at night or in the fog...........sarcasm off.

[Edited 2013-09-19 13:57:39]
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:55 pm

This guy didn't hold the brakes though. Guess it's not always something they do?
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EmiratesEK231
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:02 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 28):

This guy didn't hold the brakes though. Guess it's not always something they do?

I've seen videos of rolling takeoffs (no holding of the brakes) from Eagle Vail. I guess it just depends on weather conditions and/or weight.
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gigneil
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:05 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 19):
Double negative. Not an unpopular airport means it is popular...

It is. A wildly popular airport.

Those 757s aren't there for just performance reasons - every airline that flies there has 73Gs or A319s that could serve it very effectively from most airports, MIA might be a stretch but not a huge one.

NS
 
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:07 pm

Quoting ual747den (Reply 6):
As far as why airlines use the 757, performance. Extreme altitude, extreme conditions, and zero room for mistakes.

757s were also the only type originally operated to some very high-elevation airports in China (much higher than those in Colorado) due to their performance.
 
codc10
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:09 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 25):
Good luck flying a dopey 739 into EGE.

DURRRR...

The 737-800 with the Short-Field Package mod operated a number of flights out of EGE to IAH this past winter, replacing the usual -700, but such marginal routes are clearly not within the normal operating envelope of the 739ER.
 
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N62NA
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:34 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 28):
This guy didn't hold the brakes though. Guess it's not always something they do?

I've taken off on the western heading once out of EGE and honestly, it wasn't all that "exciting" at all. The left turn that they make a few seconds after takeoff reminded me of the dozens of times I took off on 22R at EWR where you make a left turn seconds after you are airborne.

What was much more interesting to me was when you land at EGE as someone mentioned earlier. You are somewhat close to the mountains on each side of you and below the mountain tops. Now THAT was interesting!
 
octubre299
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:46 pm

Unpopular was the wrong word, but what I meant to say is that most people would rather fly to DEN which is substantially cheaper then the premium fares you pay for the luxury of landing in EGE (rich people's airport). Off course at least in winter it is a popular service, by the time summer comes around it is completely dead.
 
Utah744
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:12 pm

First time I flew a B757 into EGE it was cloudy but above minimums. We broke out in the valley and made a few visual turns to line up with the runway. The second time I flew in there it was CAVU and we could see all of the mountains. That was an eye opener because you have to use a VNAV approach and the plane was descending, leveling off and turning on the AP with mountains all around. I was glad I had the CAVU approach second because I'd have been very uneasy knowing those rocks were so close on the IFR approach. The takeoff with an immediate left turn and then a long right turn around the mountain is a real bitch in the sim. The Captain has to demonstrate that with an engine failure he can keep the plane within .02 miles of the track. I don't remember the exact number of takeoffs you have to do but I believe it was 6 when I checked out on the 757. You would leave the sim with rubber legs. My favorite plane for many reasons including T/O performance, short landing roll (SNA, MDW, DCA, LGA), the perfect amount of automation, range, nice sized cockpit (oops, flight deck), high initial flight level. Great plane.
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AA94
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:49 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 22):
That is a very small percentage of the people. The rich south americans all own their own equipment or buy them over priced in vail and have to take them home. Most of the beginners aka families on more of a budget fly into DEN, EGE has a real significant premium most of the time. EGE really caters to the real skiiers or families that are serious about skiing. Fly into EGE and watch how many skis come off it will literally be almost the entire plane. Those planes are chock full of heavy ski equipment any way you look at it.

  

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Thenoflyzone
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:38 am

Quoting Airontario (Reply 21):


This has me wondering. With AC starting EGE this winter with a 319, will they be taking a payload hit, to make it to YYZ? What kind of range would a 319 get with full pax and bags out of EGE?


Well let's see. EGE-YYZ is 1245 nm.

EGE is at an altitude of 6500 ft with a 9000ft runway. An A319 in ISA conditions is limited to a takeoff weight of 155,000 lbs out of EGE, meaning an 11,000 lbs payload hit vs MTOW, but still enough for 120 passengers and bags.

With a TOW of 155,000 lbs, an A319 can fly as far as 1650nm, so EGE-YYZ should pose no problems range wise also.

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...data/AC/Airbus-AC-A319-Jun2012.pdf

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-09-19 19:48:08]
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ual747den
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:03 am

Quoting octubre299 (Reply 34):

Unpopular was the wrong word, but what I meant to say is that most people would rather fly to DEN which is substantially cheaper then the premium fares you pay for the luxury of landing in EGE (rich people's airport). Off course at least in winter it is a popular service, by the time summer comes around it is completely dead.

I also wouldn't say that most people would rather fly into DEN, if you are coming to Colorado and your sole purpose is to ski Vail that is a REALLY long time to spend in a car after your long flight. The drive can also be a real challenge for people who are not used to driving in the winter conditions. I have lived in Colorado all my life and even I am smart enough to catch a flight from DEN if I'm going that way to ski!
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Schweigend
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:36 am

Quoting UTAH744 (Reply 35):
The takeoff with an immediate left turn and then a long right turn around the mountain is a real bitch in the sim. The Captain has to demonstrate that with an engine failure he can keep the plane within .02 miles of the track. I don't remember the exact number of takeoffs you have to do but I believe it was 6 when I checked out on the 757. You would leave the sim with rubber legs. My favorite plane for many reasons including T/O performance, short landing roll (SNA, MDW, DCA, LGA), the perfect amount of automation, range, nice sized cockpit (oops, flight deck), high initial flight level. Great plane.

Wow! I'm so glad you guys practice these things in the simulator -- I had no idea EGE was one of the scenarios, but that is a tough airport for sure.

Yet another thing to love about the 757!

Quoting ual747den (Reply 38):
I also wouldn't say that most people would rather fly into DEN, if you are coming to Colorado and your sole purpose is to ski Vail that is a REALLY long time to spend in a car after your long flight. The drive can also be a real challenge for people who are not used to driving in the winter conditions. I have lived in Colorado all my life and even I am smart enough to catch a flight from DEN if I'm going that way to ski!

Absolutely correct. Most folks will just want to get to the destination ASAP.

Unless the skiers want to spend some time in Denver -- that is, take a hotel the first night, and rent a car the next day for the drive through the mountains to Vail. Having lived in Denver, Boulder, and the Front Range myself, I know that a drive into the mountains is its own kind of beautiful experience, though it can be very dangerous driving up there in the winter.

Best for most ski pax to take the nonstop or connect in DEN.
 
ckfred
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:49 am

Slightly off topic, but are the resorts still subsidizing the airlines to fly to airports such as EGE and JAC? I know this was the case back in the 1990s, but I don't know if the legacies still have to charge fares that need subsidies to make flying profitable.
 
sk909
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:16 am

The 757-200 is the last real airplane. Build for perfomance. Not like todays underpowered plane. Sad, sad, sad. Truely a sad day when they stop flying.

Quoting catiii (Reply 19):

No... Not unpopular means that it is not unpopular, but dosn't mean it is popular. It is not binary. Just as saying "he is not poor". That doesn't mean he is rich, does it?
Life's for Living!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:32 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 40):
Slightly off topic, but are the resorts still subsidizing the airlines to fly to airports such as EGE and JAC? I know this was the case back in the 1990s, but I don't know if the legacies still have to charge fares that need subsidies to make flying profitable.

Subsidies and revenue guarantees exist at ski airports still.

At EGE last I saw AA was the only one getting them from Vail Resorts but it was revenue gurantees and UA had something for the off season not sure if its from the county or state but not the ski area. Ski areas like crested butte for Gunnison, and steamboat springs for Hayden definitely offer stuff to airlines as they need the service to bring people in. AA Eagle has something worked out for ASE don't remember who its from but that's really to have some competition at the airport. Mammoth I think offers subsidies in CA IIRC also.
 
EmiratesEK231
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:04 am

Quoting sk909 (Reply 41):

The 757-200 is the last real airplane. Build for perfomance. Not like todays underpowered plane.

You call the GE90-115B's on the Boeing 777-200LR and -300ER "underpowered"???
I AM A NORTHWEST AIRLINES & EMIRATES LOVER! MY FAVORITE FLIGHTS HAVE BEEN ON THE 777, 727, DC-9, A320, AND 737.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:12 am

Any twin is way overpowered - its the way we FLY them that has been changed.

NS
 
ATCtower
Posts: 512
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:30 am

This is my airspace and while the 757 is certainly a big bird for the airport, I would hardly say it is a popular plane for the field. I could be wrong but even during peak ski season there are only 2 daily 757s that go into an airport which can run a 30 rate and sometimes higher...
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sk909
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RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:41 am

Quoting EmiratesEK231 (Reply 43):

No they are not underpowered, but compared to 757 they are. Look at the weight/thrust ratio. The 777-200LR is closer to the DC10-40 than 757-200... And the 777-300ER is just marginaly better than the DC10-40. The question is much rather likely to be; is the 777-200LR powered adequately? Yes. For the missions it flyes. Is there a need for overpowered planes like 757-200? Well since makers aren't making them and operators aren't asking for them, the answer seems to be: No.
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a321luke
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:36 am

RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:04 am

Quoting sk909 (Reply 46):
No they are not underpowered, but compared to 757 they are. Look at the weight/thrust ratio. The 777-200LR is closer to the DC10-40 than 757-200... And the 777-300ER is just marginaly better than the DC10-40. The question is much rather likely to be; is the 777-200LR powered adequately? Yes. For the missions it flyes. Is there a need for overpowered planes like 757-200? Well since makers aren't making them and operators aren't asking for them, the answer seems to be: No.

If you're going by MTOW, then yes, the 752 beats the 77L weight/thrust:

B752: 255,000/43,000 = 5.93
B77L: 766,000/115,500 = 6.63

I rounded the numbers somewhat for thrust, so the numbers aren't perfect. I'm also not sure what engines the 757s that operate to EGE have in terms of thrust, so I used 43,000 lbf.

OEW on the other hand, the 77L beats the 752:

B752: 127,500/43,000 = 2.97
B77L: 320,000/115,000 = 2.77

Both are incredibly overpowered aircraft that go like a bat out of hell at full power when empty.

But of course, the 77L uses a lot more runway than the 752 to take off, so that's a huge reason why we see them at places like EGE.  
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NDiesel
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:58 pm

RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:18 pm

Interesting take-off video from EGE by an AA752. That's a pretty sharp turn shortly after takeoff.

http://youtu.be/j6BMWsA2LKI
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Marquis
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:35 am

RE: Why Are 757's So Popular In Eagle/Vail?

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:35 pm

Quoting a321luke (Reply 47):
If you're going by MTOW, then yes, the 752 beats the 77L weight/thrust:

B752: 255,000/43,000 = 5.93
B77L: 766,000/115,500 = 6.63

I rounded the numbers somewhat for thrust, so the numbers aren't perfect. I'm also not sure what engines the 757s that operate to EGE have in terms of thrust, so I used 43,000 lbf.

OEW on the other hand, the 77L beats the 752:

B752: 127,500/43,000 = 2.97
B77L: 320,000/115,000 = 2.77

Both are incredibly overpowered aircraft that go like a bat out of hell at full power when empty.

Ehhhmm...you are calculating with only one engine in operation.
Riding the radials...

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