Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
khkair
Topic Author
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:42 pm

Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:18 am

Hi Everyone,

In the most recent issue of Airliners World, there is an article about the history of AF, and in the list of historic fleet, it showed that they had a small fleet of 5 B763s back in 2000. Before this, I have not heard any mention of AF operating B767 and I had always thought that B767 was one of the few types of planes that AF never operated, so this came as a bit of a surprise to me (Pardon my lack of knowledge...    ).

I wonder if anyone here has ever flown on an AF B767 or could share some more information/experience about this fleet. How long did AF possessed this type? How many did they owned? Where did they fly? How were the flight experiences on these planes?

Thanks everyone in advance!!
 
aznmadsci
Posts: 1646
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:02 pm

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:13 am

Did AF get the 767s from UTA?
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
 
777-200
Posts: 966
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 11:11 pm

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:16 am

AF used to fly 767's to KCVG in the early 2000's

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto

Another Day, Another Dollar.... Young Jeezy
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4532
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:18 am

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 1):
Did AF get the 767s from UTA?

No, they did not. Air France ordered them directly from Boeing. The Air France 767s were built as 767-328ERs, that's how I know. If they came from UTA they would be 3B3ERs. Yes, it is true that UTA was considering adding the 767 to its fleet. The DC-10s and the 747-300s were the ones that came from UTA.

Air France has flown every Boeing model except the 757.

Ben Soriano
Ben Soriano
 
ubeema
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:48 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:38 am

AF operated 9 B767 between 1991 and early 2K according to planespotters.net. Most of the frames came from the defunct Aeromaritime a french charter. Aeromaritime went belly up in 1991
 
opethfan
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:35 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:52 am

I recall flying on a Zoom 767 with Air France still engraved on the seatbelt buckle.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3119
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:09 am

Quoting 777-200 (Reply 2):
AF used to fly 767's to KCVG in the early 2000's

  

The 767 was the initial equipment AF flew when they started CVG-CDG before upgauging to the A340/747.

The 767's were apparently kind of the oddball of the AF fleet, from what I've heard, by the late 90's/early 2000's their interiors were pretty ratty compared to the rest of the fleet.
 
User avatar
DL_Mech
Posts: 2538
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:38 am

I recall the AF 767s had a "smoking bar" near the L3 door and a enclosed hard-walled J class pilot rest seat just aft of R1.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2559
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:47 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 6):
The 767's were apparently kind of the oddball of the AF fleet, from what I've heard, by the late 90's/early 2000's their interiors were pretty ratty compared to the rest of the fleet.

So what you're saying is that their interiors reflected the rest of the fleet's exteriors?
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:51 am

I think they got rid of them once the A330s came along, just as KLM did.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5334
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:51 am

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 1):
Did AF get the 767s from UTA?
Quoting American 767 (Reply 3):
No, they did not.

YES THEY DID.
The B767 were initially ordered by UTA for replacing the DC10 and for its charter subsidiary Aéromaritime.

Beside the 5 B763 operated until 2003, AF also operated briefly 2 B767-200ER (F-GHGD & F-GHGE that were sold to BAKAN (F-GHGE is still flying as 4X-EAF for EL AL) . One of them even carried a "Test Livery" with a grey cheatline that was finally not adopted


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AlainDurand
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Marc Lehmann

 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5287
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:59 am

AF flew their 767-300ER's to SFO for brief time during the mid-1990's.
 
TGV
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:37 pm

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:40 am

I flew AF 767 during the summer 1998, between CDG and ATL
I will never fly again 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y
 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4411
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:56 am

They used them to IAH as well...at the time, they werr the only 767s used to Houston by any carrier
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
mandala499
Posts: 6593
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:24 am

Let's put the issue to rest... BOTH answers are correct...
Some came Aeromaritime, some came directly from Boeing.
24745/355 767-3Q8ER 01/10/1991 29/05/2003 F-GHGF From Aeromaritime
24746/378 767-3Q8ER 23/04/1992 01/06/2003 F-GHGG From Aeromaritime (initially leased to Lauda, delivered 19/07/1991)
24832/316 767-27EER 02/10/1991 02/04/1992 F-GHGD From Aeromaritime
24854/326 767-27EER 02/10/1991 15/05/1992 F-GHGE From Aeromaritime

25077/385 767-37EER 02/10/1991 08/07/2003 F-GHGH From Aeromaritime
25535/491 767-33AER 27/03/1997 13/02/1998 F-GKAU From Ordered for EuroAtlantic (undelivered), went to TACA, Vietnam Airlines, Egyptair then Air France.
27135/493 767-328ER 14/05/1993 01/06/2003 F-GHGI 1st Delivered to Air France
27136/497 767-328ER 28/05/1993 28/06/2002 F-GHGJ 1st Delivered to Air France
27212/531 767-328ER 07/03/1994 13/06/1996 F-GHGK 1st Delivered to Air France (now a freighter)

*Q8 is ILFC
*7E is Aeromaritime
*3A is Ansett Worldwide Air Leasing (not the airline)
*28 is Air France
What happened was in 1989 UTA ordered 3 767-300ERs for Aeromaritime, 2 ended up in Air France directly (GHGF & GHGH) and one never went to Aeromaritime but spent time in Lauda before it ended up in Air France after the lease. Apart from this, the -200ERs did all come from Aeromaritime.

-GHGI, GHGJ and GHGK are ordered by Air France or at least the order taken over from Aeromaritime (hence it has the AF customer code), but I never remembered Aeromaritime ordering more than the 3... maybe these 3 are options from the Aeromaritime order, exercised by AF.
-GKAU's original order history is kinda unknown, but the dates indicate it's an interim replacement for -GHGK being sent away from the fleet (to Soberlair). GKAU left and went around places for Ansett leasing before finally ending up at the original airline which never received it, EuroAtlantic about a month ago.
As FlySSC said, the 2 -200ERs was at AF only briefly.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:31 am

I flew them in the late 90's/early 2000's to ATL, CVG, BOS, ORD, PHL. I think it was also briefly operating one of the JFK flights just after 9/11.
It was a pleasant plane to fly, especially in Y, compared to the B777 sardine can. They had no P class (at that time, all long-haul AF planes had P) and no PTV in Y (just the main screens).
 
sscaf001
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:12 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:03 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 15):

A the very beginning, 763 were configured with P5 / J20 / Y185. But P-Class has been dropped very quickly. After that, the configuration was set to J25 / Y185.
 
sscaf001
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:12 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:08 am

Quoting sscaf001 (Reply 16):

Configuration used before "L'Espace 180"/"L'Espace 127" cabins : Première 8 seats / Le Club 24 seats / Economique 178 seats.
 
sscaf001
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:12 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:12 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 15):
at that time, all long-haul AF planes had P

Except on B747 in "Conjugué" configuration (COI network)
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:13 am

Quoting sscaf001 (Reply 16):
Quoting goldorak (Reply 15):

A the very beginning, 763 were configured with P5 / J20 / Y185. But P-Class has been dropped very quickly. After that, the configuration was set to J25 / Y185.

Thanks for the information

Quoting sscaf001 (Reply 18):
Quoting goldorak (Reply 15):
at that time, all long-haul AF planes had P

Except on B747 in "Conjugué" configuration (COI network)

Correct, of course. Thanks for pointing out this notable exception.
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Community Manager
Posts: 4094
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:16 am

Hi

Didn't Air France cancel some of their 767 orders and use the deposit money, rather than lose it, to place their first order for the 777, can anyone confirm if this was the case?

Thanks and regards

Paul
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
KL577
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:21 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:29 am

The AF 767s also operated some routes to Africa. I flew on one to OUA with a stopover in NIM. This was in March 2003, just weeks before the last 767 would leave AF's fleet. On my return flight to CDG in June 2003 I boarded a brand new A330.

Irregardless of the airline, the 767 is a great plane to fly on. The landing in NIM was great: a turbulent approach in a very hot and very, very dusty Niamey.
 
User avatar
AC_B777
Posts: 771
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 5:15 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:40 am

I remember seeing an AF 763 at YYZ in the early to mid 90's. I have a picture of it somewhere.
In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
 
shamrock104
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2000 12:38 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:52 am

I flew an AF 763 YYZ-CDG in the early 90's - 1994 iirc.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10197
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:48 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 6):
The 767 was the initial equipment AF flew when they started CVG-CDG before upgauging to the A340/747.

They did the same in BOS and other cities. The 767 was basically their long haul route starter.
 
bx737
Posts: 630
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:47 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:13 pm

IIRC Aeromaritime was a charter subsidiary of UTA. When UTA was taken over by Air France, Aeromaritime came as well. Incidentally Aeromaritime was the original operator of the Guppies for Airbus
 
shnoob940
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:53 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:16 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 3):

Did Air France operate 717's?
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4532
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:51 pm

Quoting shnoob940 (Reply 26):
Did Air France operate 717's?

Ooops, my mistake. You're right they did not. I was looking at Boeing models that were not derivatives of former Mc DD products. Air France has never flown DC-9s (KLM did) or MD-80s, or any derivative.
Ben Soriano
 
AY-MD11
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2001 5:31 pm

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:08 pm

I flew Air France B767-200ER in 1996 august-september to JFK from CDG. I remember another same type of AF plane take off before us in runway. It was little odd flight because we decended about 2-3h before landing very low so i could see the ocean very clearly. After short while we went up again. We where put on hold too and the captain did tight turn before landing. Anyone know was the 767 normally used on the JFK run?
 
JAGflyer
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:31 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:09 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 10):

I flew 4X-EAF in December of 2011 and it still had "F-GHGE" placards in the galley. I remember talking to one of the FAs and explaining to her that the plane was previously operated by Air France.
If you flew today, thank a Flight Dispatcher!
 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Posts: 1986
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:06 pm

There were two further 767-328ERs that were never delivered to AF: -

27427/579 that was to have become F-GHGL and which was first delivered to Royal Brunei as V8-RBN
27428/586 that was to have become F-GHGO and which was first delivered to Royal Brunei as V8-RBM

In addition 27429 was a 767-328ER that was to have become F-GIYQ but it was cancelled and never built.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5334
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:32 pm

Air France was very pleased by the B767. They didn't order more of them because they already had at that time quite a large fleet of A310 ... They didn't want to devolpe another sub fleet at a time they had to rationalize it. More over, the B777 was on order and was to be delivered in 1998.
 
khkair
Topic Author
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:51 pm

Thanks everyone for the very interesting discussion! There's always something interesting to learn about everyday. 

It seems that these B767 flew to quite a few international destinations as kind of a "route starter", but interesting that they didn't seem to be spotted that frequently (hence why I thought AF never had those). I would have thought that they were mainly used for lower yield regional/medium-haul routes (or ex-Orly) given the B767 size compared to the rest of AF's wide-body fleet (B747, A340).
 
laca773
Posts: 2081
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:10 pm

AF also sent the 763ERs on CDG-PHL prior to their retirement.
 
iad2cdg
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 10:08 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:14 pm

I flew an Air France 767 from ORD to CDG in December 1999.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5334
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:00 pm

Quoting khkair (Reply 32):
I would have thought that they were mainly used for lower yield regional/medium-haul routes (or ex-Orly) given the B767 size compared to the rest of AF's wide-body fleet (B747, A340).

The only routes out of ORY where AF used the B767 are ORY-CAY & ORY-EWR (on a short time for the second).
 
jtamu97
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:40 pm

I flew an Air France 767 from IAH to CDG then onto NBO. The same aircraft brought me the entire way. I remember the configuration of economy the standard 2-3-2 configuration. On our way from IAH to CDG their was a smoking "room" in the back. It was basically an area curtained off by the restrooms. I do remember my row as 28 as it was just a few rows from the full smoking section from CDG to NBO.
Propeller, we don't need no stinkin propeller
 
brilondon
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:41 pm

Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 22):
I remember seeing an AF 763 at YYZ in the early to mid 90's. I have a picture of it somewhere.

Yes, I thought they operated them into YYZ in the 90's. I was flying to England and spotted one there among the 747s that were much more numerous in the 90's at YYZ.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:18 pm

Quoting khkair (Reply 32):
Thanks everyone for the very interesting discussion! There's always something interesting to learn about everyday.

AF 767s have been discussed in quite a few previous threads. Several below. See Reply 2 in the first link for fairly detailed history.
Air France 767 Question (by Cba Jun 15 2002 in Civil Aviation)
Air France To Replace Its B 767-300s With A 330s? (by United Airline Sep 6 2002 in Civil Aviation)
Air France 762ER, Which Routes (by Clickhappy Aug 26 2005 in Civil Aviation)
AF Boeing 767-300 (by LY777 Nov 29 2005 in Civil Aviation)
 
toobz
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:33 am

RE: Air France B767?

Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:26 pm

Flown AF 767 from CVG to CDG..those were the days when u could still get upgraded into J as a DL nonrev..that was stopped reaaaaal quick tho lol
 
aarbee
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

RE: Air France B767?

Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:53 pm

Quoting khkair (Thread starter):
I wonder if anyone here has ever flown on an AF B767 or could share some more information/experience about this fleet. How long did AF possessed this type?

Flew CDG-ORD just a week before 9/11.

thanks,

R
Love the AIXes
 

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos