Page 1 of 1

American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:11 pm
by 9lflyguy
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...ir-pilots-20130930,0,2973402.story

American hiring 1500 pilots soon.

This is good news for all my friends still in the regionals. I also heard that US may hire pilots as well. Good news for all. What does this mean for the merger?

Is this the first sign of the airlines accepting the fate of the blocked merger?

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:37 pm
by adam42185
It is good news. All of the legacy carriers are planning hiring soon, and they need to in order to keep up with retirements as well as the new rest requirement rules. There is going to be a significant atrition from regionals to majors over the next several years and I wonder how the regionals are going to be able to staff their aircraft. I hope the hiring continues for a long long time so that the industry can get some movement again!

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:59 pm
by etops1
This has nothing g to do with the merger . The merger is still in full swing regardless of the DOJ's stupid lawsuit .

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:13 pm
by jfklganyc
Quoting etops1 (Reply 2):

This has nothing g to do with the merger . The merger is still in full swing regardless of the DOJ's stupid lawsuit .

Yeah? That's like saying a flight is still on time despite a ground stop.

You can board, shut the door, and play pretend...but you still aren't going anywhere.

Don't dismiss the lawsuit

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:53 pm
by milemaster
Quoting etops1 (Reply 2):

This has nothing g to do with the merger . The merger is still in full swing regardless of the DOJ's stupid lawsuit .


How can a merger be in full swing with a DOJ lawsuit? That doesn't even make sense.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:28 pm
by Maverick623
Quoting 9lflyguy (Thread starter):


Is this the first sign of the airlines accepting the fate of the blocked merger?

Nope.

If the merger closed tomorrow, the airlines (and the pilots) would have separate operations until at least 2015. With pilot retirements just at the US PHX base happening every other week now, there's no way to hold off on hiring more pilots for that long.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:32 pm
by Okie
Will the MQ pilots get flow through or preferential treatment?

Not sure how the Bankruptcy language dealt with previous dealings with the MQ pilots.

Okie

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:55 pm
by RyanairGuru
IIRC US East has been hiring of the street for several years now, so this is nothing new. US West still has some left on furlough, but isn't it expected that they would all be recalled by the end of the year?

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:16 am
by futureualpilot
Quoting 9lflyguy (Thread starter):
This is good news for all my friends still in the regionals. I also heard that US may hire pilots as well. Good news for all. What does this mean for the merger?

Agreed, it is great news. First time in more than 10yrs that AA has hired off

Quoting 9lflyguy (Thread starter):
Is this the first sign of the airlines accepting the fate of the blocked merger?

No, they just need pilots to cover the new rest rules and retirements in 2014.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 7):
US West still has some left on furlough, but isn't it expected that they would all be recalled by the end of the year?

West offered all furloughs recall recently, PHX will be available to third list hires if it isn't already.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:31 am
by aeroflop
Can someone explain furloughs to me?

The airline hires heaps of staff and when there is a downturn they leave you to fend for yourself? Sounds like a great system.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:39 am
by sunking737
1500 pilots would workout to 750 crew pairs. Plus they will have to hire more F/A's, and related support employees too.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:59 am
by e38
Quoting aeroflop (reply 9), "Can someone explain furlough to me?"

Well, you seem to have a pretty good understanding of it already. Yes, you are left to fend for yourself. All furlough means is that you have not been fired, so at which point the company needs people again, you will be recalled before they hire people off the street.

While on furlough, you do not get paid, and depending on the company, you may or may not have medical benefits, travel privileges, etc. The worst part is you never know how long the furlough will last--could be several months, several years, or if things don't improve, you could possibly not ever get recalled.

Not fun--but it IS survivable!

e38

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:03 am
by flymia
AA has hired in over a decade great news for that pilot group. 1500 is a big number. Less people are trying to become pilots these days with the horrendous pay at the regionals and low job security, high debt etc.. It is going to be very interesting how the 1500hr rule works out with the regionals.

Don't get me wrong I know there are plenty of pilots out there right now. I am not sure how many there will be in 10 years or so though.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:14 am
by etops1
Quoting milemaster (Reply 4):

Because we are still moving along with our integration process regardless of the lawsuit . You have no idea what's going on behind the scenes .

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:25 am
by milemaster
Quoting etops1 (Reply 13):

The majority of which that can be reversed relatively easily fortunately. Wake us up when US planes start being painted and signage in PHL, PHX, and CLT start changing.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:33 am
by Acey559
Quoting okie (Reply 6):
Will the MQ pilots get flow through or preferential treatment?

Yes we do. The last of the Eagle pilots with AA seniority numbers will be going to class in October. From that point the first of the 824 flow-through pilots will be going starting in November. The 824 pilots will make up 50% of newhire classes until 824 Eagle pilots are at AA. The 824 aren't required to interview or go through AA Medical, they just flow when their number comes up. I'm in the next group of people that (eventually, hopefully) flow after the 824. My group doesn't have to interview, we just go to our assigned training class when it comes. There's a fourth group that was just recently created but I can't remember the details. I think all that one is is a preferential interview. But long story short, yes, there are various opportunities for Eagle pilots to flow to American.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:09 am
by chepos
Quoting piedmont727 (Reply 16):

You have to get your hours before going to a major, some people start at a flight school as an instructor, move uo to a regional and then go to a major or mainline operator (if thats what you wish to do). At least that's what some of my friends who I went to college with at ERAU have done or in the process of doing.

[Edited 2013-09-30 20:10:21]

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:11 am
by Flighty
Quoting flymia (Reply 12):
low job security,

That's in the past. Many, many thousands of RJ pilots will flow to mainline (at all carriers in the US) over the next 5 years.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:21 am
by etops1
Quoting milemaster (Reply 14):

Another merger hater I take it ?

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:24 am
by flymia
Quoting Flighty (Reply 17):
That's in the past. Many, many thousands of RJ pilots will flow to mainline (at all carriers in the US) over the next 5 years.

True, consolidatIon has made job security better but it's still not the strongest job out there but really what is these days. However, I don't see anything making up for the pathetic pay, low quality of life for the first few years and high debt for people who go civil.

I just feel like if you are right and thousands of RJ pilots start flowing through that in 10 years if QOL and pay at the regionals is still on the floor in 10 years who's going to have those 1500hrs for a first year RJ FO postion.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:06 am
by twincessna340a
Quoting flymia (Reply 19):
who's going to have those 1500hrs for a first year RJ FO postion.

I never thought I'd say this, but the FAA has done a smart review of the rule recently. They are now allowing graduates from specific flight programs to qualify in less than 1500. Auburn University (where I am an engineering grad student) just got a 500 hour waiver http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/09/faa_ruling_gives_auburn_aviati.html .

Quoting flymia (Reply 19):
However, I don't see anything making up for the pathetic pay, low quality of life for the first few years and high debt for people who go civil.I just feel like if you are right and thousands of RJ pilots start flowing through that in 10 years if QOL and pay at the regionals is still on the floor in 10 years

I completely agree with your sentiment. I had several friends in the flight program at Purdue as an undergrad and heard starting Piedmont FO on the Dash 8 was about ~19K. Horrendous enough without the added expense of the new ruling.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:10 am
by adam42185
Quoting flymia (Reply 19):
I just feel like if you are right and thousands of RJ pilots start flowing through that in 10 years if QOL and pay at the regionals is still on the floor in 10 years who's going to have those 1500hrs for a first year RJ FO postion.

   I am curious about this as well. I wonder if the short sighted plan of worsening RJ pilot pay and QOL is going to shoot the industry in the foot down the road. In all reality I believe they are trying to set a new "zero" so that when they bring pay back to where it is now (or maybe not even) they can say they are giving a *raise* to sound more lucrative.

Just my   , but I think the regionals as the exist today won't exist in 7-12 years. There are simply not enough pilots coming up through the pipeline to staff the number of aircraft with ATPs. I see one of three things happening, (again simply my speculation and its a little off topic but humor me).
1) Regional airlines will simply be merged with major carriers and tacked on to the bottom of the seniority lists. The smallest planes will be around 100 seats (the 76 seaters may survive a while, but if a shortage really happens plane size will increase and frequency will be much lower). The only true regional type airlines will be such like Cape Air doing true regional flying.
2) US airlines will start training pilots themselves to do huge demand and no supply much like some of the foreign carriers do now. Find young men and women with the right aptitude and start training them early to fill pilot positions.
3) Cabotage. I hope this doesn't happen, but if the US airline industry gets to the point where the economy is hampered due to lack of available flights I wouldn't put it past congress to allow foreign carriers to operate domestically within the US.

Back to American -- I am excited to see that they are planning on hiring, and it will be interesting to see how American, United, Delta, Southwest, et. al. battle the upcoming retirements and *impending shortage* of pilots (if it ever really comes to fruition). It doesn't seem there enough ways to get enough pilots to the ATP minimums these days.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:26 am
by Maverick623
Quoting aeroflop (Reply 9):
Can someone explain furloughs to me?

It's basically a layoff with recall rights.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:35 am
by aeroflop
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 22):
It's basically a layoff with recall rights

Is it something exclusive to the US? Never heard of that sort of practice in Australia.

I do hope conditions will improve for US pilots. Those regional airlines have had made enough money by shafting their staff.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:27 pm
by lightsaber
Quoting flymia (Reply 12):
Don't get me wrong I know there are plenty of pilots out there right now. I am not sure how many there will be in 10 years or so though.

Enough. Pay will have to improve, but look at all the US pilots gaining hours around the world?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 22):
Quoting aeroflop (Reply 9):
Can someone explain furloughs to me?

It's basically a layoff with recall rights.

Or put another way, the pilot is laid off, but they have the right/option to keep their seniority. Some pilots reject recall as their new employer is a better financial situation.

Quoting adam42185 (Reply 21):
Just my   , but I think the regionals as the exist today won't exist in 7-12 years. There are simply not enough pilots coming up through the pipeline to staff the number of aircraft with ATPs.

There won't be as many regional planes. As we've just had the worst decade of airline hiring. Once there is a 'shortage,' pilots will enroll.

Lightsaber

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:19 pm
by adam42185
Quoting twincessna340a (Reply 20):

Quoting flymia (Reply 19):
who's going to have those 1500hrs for a first year RJ FO postion.

I never thought I'd say this, but the FAA has done a smart review of the rule recently. They are now allowing graduates from specific flight programs to qualify in less than 1500. Auburn University (where I am an engineering grad student) just got a 500 hour waiver http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/09/faa_ruling_gives_auburn_aviati.html .

True there are some exemptions. I remember reading that FAA accredited universities (Auburn included, amongst Purdue, ERAU, UND, U of Illinois and other aviation universities) have a 500 hour reduction. That means these pilots still need to get to 1000 hours which, although fewe that 1500, is still much more than the 250 of the commercial rating. I am also curious as to how the other minimums are affected. The toughest minimum for the ATP for me to reach was the 500 XC time. I wonder how much XC time will be required for those waivers or if it is simpily a waiver for total time. If the XC time isn't adjusted then its going to be just as challenging for anybody going the CFI route.
I also read that there will be a 750 waiver for military pilots, although I don't know that they would need it considering they will fly many hours in the military. The one issue there is that the military is training fewer pilots these days (many people just becoming drone pilots) and te pilots that are in the military are staying there for their careers.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:23 pm
by xdlx
In my most humbled opinion.... AA will have by virtue of retirements of both Pilots & Airplanes a simple synergy to follow,
most AE pilots will flow-trhu and the ERJ will continue to be parked and the fleet reduced. As stated above, AA/E may be reduced to the 76seater, since all other flying to smaler markets will be outsourced.
The question becomes .... do these flow thru guys go straight to Airbus, or to the S80.... During the first few
flow thru classes some guys went to S80, only to go to 738 shortly after. How will the AA/US combination affect all this?

The US side of the pilots goes back to Alleghany days, & America West. The AA has some RENO, TWA, and now AA/E
flow thru guys .... I can only see one way to resolve all this and it is straight DOH.

Any ideas how to cook this stew?

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:39 pm
by Goldenshield
Quoting adam42185 (Reply 25):
That means these pilots still need to get to 1000 hours which, although fewe that 1500, is still much more than the 250 of the commercial rating. I am also curious as to how the other minimums are affected.

For some regionals, it'll be like nothing ever happened. They already had high (1000+ hour) minimums, and the best pay of the lot.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:23 pm
by futureualpilot
Quoting xdlx (Reply 26):
I can only see one way to resolve all this and it is straight DOH.

Straight DOH isn't always fair, you'll have guys who were hired long before others losing bidding power while junior guys elsewhere experience huge gains. Most integrations these days tend to try to integrate so no pilot experiences more than a couple percentage point gain or loss in relative seniority. That way nobody gets a windfall and nobody gets a screw job. At least in any extreme way. Not entirely fair but it is a much more equitable method than others.

Discussion for another thread, perhaps. The AA app site is overwhelmed by applicants it would seem, but good luck to all applying.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:11 pm
by RyanairGuru
Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 8):
West offered all furloughs recall recently

That's great to hear   

Does anyone know how long the average furlough was? I wish these West guys all the very best.

Quoting xdlx (Reply 26):
do these flow thru guys go straight to Airbus, or to the S80.... During the first few
flow thru classes some guys went to S80, only to go to 738 shortly after

They'll go wherever there is an open seat, regardless of type

Quoting xdlx (Reply 26):
How will the AA/US combination affect all this?

Well as said they will probably be separate work groups for the next several years, so on the short term the impact will be negligible.

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:31 am
by KD5MDK
How many domestic regional pilots are there? What % of them is this AA hiring class?

RE: American To Hire 1500 Pilots

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:09 am
by Acey559
Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 30):

Somewhere about 15,000 regional pilots, if not more. And keep in mind that of the 1500 AA plans on hiring, half are required to come from Eagle.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 29):
Does anyone know how long the average furlough was?

It depends but about 10 to 12 years for AA and UA.

Quoting xdlx (Reply 26):
The question becomes .... do these flow thru guys go straight to Airbus, or to the S80.... During the first few
flow thru classes some guys went to S80, only to go to 738 shortly after.

Just depends on need. I commute with a former Eagle captain that was in the first of the recent flowthrough classes. He took MIA 737 International while our old ORD chief pilot took NYC MD-80 Domestic. There is a seat lock though so nobody is transferring equipment immediately. I've heard (fairly rare) instances of flowthroughs getting LGA 767 Domestic right out of the gate.

Quoting adam42185 (Reply 25):
True there are some exemptions.

That'll be fine for regionals but UA just sent out an email to all applicants the other day stating that all candidates are required to have an unrestricted ATP, so the 750 military and 1000 college ATPs won't count for those wanting to go to majors, they'll still need the 1500. Which is fine because I can't ever see things getting bad enough for majors to hire kids right out of college.