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TK773
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:35 pm

Today, I flew IST - MAN on TK. Usually, I prefer evening flights. For the first time in a long while, I hadn't experienced Ataturk airport at 7am. It was absolute chaos! Seeing how busy it was, it raised a question in my mind. I didn't quite have what one would call a 'great passenger experience'. Overcrowded security queues and passport controls etc. Nothing but stress and hassle.

Does this dissatisfaction not effect the choice of people willing to use TK? I mean, one may be satisfied with the onboard service of TK, but would they want to go through the stress of IST airport itself?

I think the overcapacity of IST must have an impact on deferring passengers from using TK. I experienced this first hand onboard this morning, as one passenger refused to put on his seatbelt prior to take-off, because -in his words- "he was treated like "S" at the airport, therefore will do what he wants on the plane"

Opinions?

TK773

[Edited 2013-10-07 16:40:23]
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:58 am

Quoting TK773 (Reply 50):
as one passenger refused to put on his seatbelt prior to take-off

Well, my opinion, he doesn't get to fly, period. Get him off the plane immediately.

I for one, do my best to fly in better circumstances if I can. Like flying on very early flights on a Saturday morning, or flying very late. If there are more than one daily flights, I go check every flight's seat map and see the least popular one, or best chance to get an upgrade.
Even check at departure airport and arrival airport traffic patterns.
For example, you would never want to take TK 12 JFK-IST, arriving at IST at 16:45, if Istanbul is your final destination.
 
gokmengs
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:14 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 51):

TK12 my new favorite flight( on TK11 as I type) landing time sucks for traffic yes, but I go to yesilkoy for some fish and raki and time flies and traffic is gone after dinner
PS this only works if you are being picked up of course with a designated driver. Good trick regardless try it.
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:31 am

Quoting gokmengs (Reply 52):
but I go to yesilkoy for some fish and raki and time flies and traffic is gone after dinner

Lucky you 
Bon Voyage.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:59 am

Where did this come from? Really?
AirPlus wants to start Istanbul-Caracas-Havana by the end of this year?? Who are they?
Maybe "tozbek" can explain.
http://kokpit.aero/istanbul-venezela-seferleri-basliyor (Turkish Only)
 
miaintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:09 pm

Does anyone know if TK is interested in commencing service to MIA? What kind of market is MIA-IST, does TK have any high-density jets that it can send to MIA?
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:49 pm

As always;
-I am sure TK is interested in MIA (in due time)
-MIA-IST is in the top 10 for Turkey-US O&D demand.
-TK does not really have high density jets, but TK has a combination of 332/333/343/77W that can send to MIA, but Miami is still not mentioned with the likes of BOS, SFO, ATL, YUL or even MEX, CCS, HAV, DTW.
 
miaintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:28 am

I wonder why MIA is not mentioned with those other cities? Is not MIA a bigger market to Turkey than ATL, HAV, DTW and CCS? What is the annual MIA-IST pdew? I am sure it is higher than ATL, YUL, CCS, and HAV.

[Edited 2013-10-08 22:30:01]
 
leftyboarder
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:00 am

Maybe the fron cabin is harder to fill for MIA? IAH, LAX, ORD, JFK and BOS all have business links to Turkey and the region, but MIA, not so sure.
 
miaintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:31 am

But I am sure MIA is a bigger market to Turkey than HAV, CCS, and ATL. By the way is filling the front cabin so important for an airline's profitability? What is the annual Pdew between MIA and IST vis-a-vis does other cities?
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:53 am

Starting March 30th, 2014 TK to fly to Tokyo 2 x daily.
The new flight will be with a A333.
http://kokpit.aero/thy-tokyo-2-sefer (Turkish Only)
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:50 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 60):
Starting March 30th, 2014 TK to fly to Tokyo 2 x daily.
The new flight will be with a A333.
http://kokpit.aero/thy-tokyo-2-sefer (Turkish Only)

Strange, i thought it was going to start in November with an A332.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:56 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 61):
Strange, i thought it was going to start in November with an A332.



This is another explanation?
http://airlineroute.net/2013/10/09/tk-nrt-s14/
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:33 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 60):
Starting March 30th, 2014 TK to fly to Tokyo 2 x daily.
The new flight will be with a A333.
http://kokpit.aero/thy-tokyo-2-sefer (Turkish Only)

Does the A333 have the legs to do that flight? KIX always gets an A332...
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 63):
Does the A333 have the legs to do that flight?

Nice one TurkishWings, I don't think so.
Looking at wikipedia, longest A333 route ICN-PRG(4459nm) is 300nm shorter than IST-KIX (4741nm)
But also I'm not sure about the new A333s TK will be getting, might have better range?
In November 2012 it was further announced that the gross weight will increase to 242 t, while the range will be extended by 500 nautical miles (930 km) (over 235 t model) to 6,100 nautical miles (11,300 km).
 
emrecan
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:14 pm

The second flight to NRT will start on November 4th 2013.

"tozbek" shold correct his website  
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:21 am

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 43):
New bilateral will be valid from 30 March onwards.
Quite some time for TK to think about leasing some additional aircraft or postpone the launch of Boston and go for an increase in Canada instead.

Air Canada will go daily on their Toronto - Istanbul route from June 2014.
Let's see how TK reacts to this.
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:21 am

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 66):
Air Canada will go daily on their Toronto - Istanbul route from June 2014.
Let's see how TK reacts to this.

Good news. Competition is good for quality and the price. AND an increased number of flights may push the authorities to further expand traffic rights. I think for TK the destinations YYZ, YUL and YVR each flown once daily is enough. Or is there any need for YYC and YEG?
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:18 pm

Quoting emrecan (Reply 65):

The second flight to NRT will start on November 4th 2013.

"tozbek" shold correct his website  

'tozbek' needs to correct a lot of things in his website  
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
MeCe
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:36 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 64):
Nice one TurkishWings, I don't think so.Looking at wikipedia, longest A333 route ICN-PRG(4459nm) is 300nm shorter than IST-KIX (4741nm)But also I'm not sure about the new A333s TK will be getting, might have better range?In November 2012 it was further announced that the gross weight will increase to 242 t, while the range will be extended by 500 nautical miles (930 km) (over 235 t model) to 6,100 nautical miles (11,300 km).

TK's current 333 can not make IST-ORD leg without restriction. It is 12 hrs of flight same as NRT-IST leg. So, at least inbound leg may be restirckted.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 46):

2 333 this year, 5 333 and 3 77W next year. 8 333 and 7 77W in 2015, 5 333 and 6 77W in 2016 and last 4 77W in 2017. Add to that the 2 332 that were leased.

It's time to escape from Istanbul :P 
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:41 pm

Seems the Meridiana A332 has left the TK fleet. Can anybody confirm? If true, they won't be missed - that's sure!
 
Hugin
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:47 pm

Seems like a consortium with Norwegian firm Nordic Office of Architecture as one of the members will design the new Istanbul airport: http://nordicarch.com/new-istanbul-airport#info

Without going into the location debate, I just hope they manage to come up with a great design, Istanbul deserves it. Oslo Airport is not a bad reference, but this project is on a quite different scale. The consortium looks promising though, with Grimshaw and Arup.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:07 pm

Latest numbers from TK:
Traffic results for the period of January-September 2013 are as follows:
During the period of January-September 2013 total passenger carried has increased by 24.1%, reaching to 36.2 million passengers from 29.2 million passengers for the same period of 2012. Increase in number of passengers carried in domestic and international lines is 24.5% and 23.8%, respectively.
International Business/Comfort Class passengers increased by 24.2 % for the same period, while international-to-international transfer passengers increased by 29.1%.
L/F increased by 1.8 point to 79.8%.
ASK with 21.1% increase reached to 86.1 bn during the period January-September 2013 from 71.1 bn for the same period of 2012. Increase in ASK in domestic and international lines is 25.9% and 20.5%, respectively.
RPK with 24% increase reached to 68.7 bn during the period of January-September 2013 from 55.4 bn for the same period of 2012. Increase in RPK in domestic and international lines is 27.3% and 23.5%, respectively.
Number of landing 224.350 for the period of January-September 2012 has increased to 274.537 in 2013. (22.4%)
During the period January-September 2013, number of destinations has increased by 18.3%, reaching to 239 from 202 for the same period in 2012.
Cargo/Mail carried during the period of January-September 2013 reached to 407.011 tons from 345.713 tons in 2012. (+17.7)
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:13 pm

Quoting hugin (Reply 71):
Nordic Office of Architecture as one of the members will design the new Istanbul airport:

Now "opening in 2019"??
 
Hugin
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:21 pm

Reality setting in? I assume this is according to contract if the firm behind the master plan is publishing it.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:42 pm

Let's see how this goes. Realistically they might start construction by next spring/summer. 5 years to finish still might be too optimistic. What will TK do with 100+ airplanes they were to receive by then?
 
ASA
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:51 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 73):
Reality setting in? I assume this is according to contract if the firm behind the master plan is publishing it.
Quoting TK787 (Reply 75):
Let's see how this goes. Realistically they might start construction by next spring/summer. 5 years to finish still might be too optimistic. What will TK do with 100+ airplanes they were to receive by then?

Sorry to sound like a spoilsport, but I still think it'll probably be 2020 ...

Quoting TK787 (Reply 75):

Let's see how this goes. Realistically they might start construction by next spring/summer. 5 years to finish still might be too optimistic. What will TK do with 100+ airplanes they were to receive by then?

Either SAW has to be brought up to the task with lots of narrowbodies being based there - or IST will be a busy parking lot (atleast new parking aprons are coming up in the military area, right?). Kind of like DXB was in 2007-2010 time frame.

Not very pleasant experience with buses used in most boardings ....     
 
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ankaraflyjet
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:20 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 67):

YVR does not seem to be in the plans so far but would be a very profitable route to start may be thrice weekly but it will take a while after YUL I guess. YVR is the second largest airport in Canada and sure lacks any flight beyond FRA in Eastern direction. EK and QR are dying to get in but no chance by AC to allow as this will make a significant loss for AC on thie ex-YVR partnerhip with LH. If TK can manage to sneak from this door great. The double daily LHR YVR by BA 747 is filled with onward connection to India so TK will steal that traffic I hope.
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:07 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 72):
International Business/Comfort Class passengers increased by 24.2 % for the same period, while international-to-international transfer passengers increased by 29.1%.

We actually see for a long time an increase of booking for those two classes, so two questions come to my mind:

1. Might have the "comfort class" LF reached a level so that TK might be now happy with CC? They might be keeping it in their fleet then maybe 

2. Can we expect a higher number of business class seats on their new A330s and 777s? I think a number around 40J seats should be doable for TK
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:53 am

TK CEO Mr. Kotil speaks to WSJ:

http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...l-lufthansa-ile-isbirligi-yok.html

Important headlines are as follows:

- TK will grow in SAW till 3rd Airport finishes. Currently there are only 17 planes at SAW, gradually quantity will be up to 100 within few years. Operational structure will be similar to IST in future. Idea is to double the size of TK using SAW and become the biggest in Europe.
- Overall domestic passenger number has increase almost 10 times during the last 10 years and now market size is similar to size of German Market.
- There is no plan for LH cooperation other than what exists today.

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 21):
Seems that Turkey has been able get a increase in the number of frequencies to Canada.
New bilateral allows up to 9 weekly frequencies per week.

Looks like YUL is starting at 2014 Q1:

http://airkule.com/haber/THY-YENI-YILDA-BURAYA-UCACAK/15619
The future is in the skies.
 
northstar80
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:01 am

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 78):
We actually see for a long time an increase of booking for those two classes,

Hi Turkish777X, they grow just about at the same speed as the whole TK passenger numbers grow. This means they probably are not increasing big numbers in load factor (majority of the high growth factor comes in from the amount of planes increasing). But I'd also like to see the current load-factor of comfort class, I am one of those that think it is a bit too early to decide about the fate of the CC. I love TK's CC..
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:45 am

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 80):
Hi Turkish777X, they grow just about at the same speed as the whole TK passenger numbers grow.


Hi Northstar80,

I am not sure since TK did not add any new CC airliners since the last delivery of their 777s quite a few years ago.
So yes performance has, at least in terms of LF, improved quite a lot.
The question is now is whether this is sufficient to keep that product alive?

Quoting TK105 (Reply 79):
Looks like YUL is starting at 2014 Q1:

Their earliest starting date would be March 30, since new bilateral will be valid from that they on.

[Edited 2013-10-12 03:46:46]
 
MeCe
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:46 am

I guess load factor is not only a factor. CC takes a huge floor space, but it is not a business class; can be sold only 300 $ more than an economy seat. It make no money I guess..
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:51 am

Quoting MeCe (Reply 82):
I guess load factor is not only a factor. CC takes a huge floor space, but it is not a business class; can be sold only 300 $ more than an economy seat. It make no money I guess..

Apart from that I see the issue of aircraft flexiblity as TK swaps all kind of equipment.
They use their 777s with CC for Hajj charters then the next time maybe to TLV or CDG, while gaining no additional money on their CC in these cases.
 
MeCe
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:52 am

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 83):

Apart from that I see the issue of aircraft flexiblity as TK swaps all kind of equipment.
They use their 777s with CC for Hajj charters then the next time maybe to TLV or CDG, while gaining no additional money on their CC in these cases.

Even they use their 777's only long haul routes CC cant make money under current circumstances. Lets make same calculation.

CC has 46" pitch per seat guru that makes 414 inches floor lenght. There can be put 13 rows of economy seat which counts around 117. So, you have 63 seat instead of 117 seat for same area; than you need sell it twice expensive at simplest calculation. TK made big mistake with huge seats and seat count. Hope they dont kill comfort class, it may live another reasonable form e.g. 36" pitch, 8 abreast.
 
northstar80
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:17 pm

Quoting MeCe (Reply 84):
CC has 46" pitch per seat guru that makes 414 inches floor lenght. There can be put 13 rows of economy seat which counts around 117. So, you have 63 seat instead of 117 seat for same area; than you need sell it twice expensive at simplest calculation. TK made big mistake with huge seats and seat count. Hope they dont kill comfort class, it may live another reasonable form e.g. 36" pitch, 8 abreast.

Its not that easy, there is weight, additional fuel cost, additional FA vs. It is not twice the cost, but I agree with your approach.

Why TK Comfort Class wasnt a success:
- Lack of consistency in the fleet (equipment swaps, fare calculations, inability to buy CC all-journey long, etc. Even if one row, CC should have been introduced to all aircraft - like the US carriers.) Consistency, consistency, consistency

-Too large: too large seats, too large floor space. The seats were not Economy plus seats; They were business class seats. They could have gone with smaller seats and smaller number of seats.

those would make CC a success in TK.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:18 pm

Quoting TK105 (Reply 79):
TK will grow in SAW till 3rd Airport finishes. Currently there are only 17 planes at SAW, gradually quantity will be up to 100 within few years. Operational structure will be similar to IST in future. Idea is to double the size of TK using SAW and become the biggest in Europe.

That is some incredible numbers, to put 100 planes to SAW. I wonder what Pegasus thinks about that? Also talks about a second runway and a new terminal in two years at SAW.
I'm not sure if having two airports in the same city will help TK to double its size? What about cargo? I'm sure all cargo ops needs to be under same roof, what about transfer pax? If they think they will ferry pax from SAW to IST to make connections in Istanbul traffic, they have to come up with Bus-Ferry-Bus option instead of sitting in traffic.
I would love to see some WB planes move to SAW also, then we can have JFK, LAX, BKK, NRT flights from SAW.

Also way to go for Montreal.
So we will see Boston and Montreal-IST flights start next year in addition to AC flying daily YYZ-IST.
Wow!! Who would have thought.
Congrats to TK 
Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 78):
Can we expect a higher number of business class seats on their new A330s and 777s?

They should add CC to 333s, but with the ending of the CC on 77Ws, CC section was to split between Y and J.
I still think TK will come to its senses and like some suggested, keep a watered down Comfort Class, or halve the seat numbers. This could be the cheaper option to keep the CC on the 77Ws. They might have to add Lavs;
77W = 35J / 28Comfort / 273 Y. ( Adding one row of J, 3 rows of Y into CC section)
333 = 28J / 21Comfort / 220 Y. (Adding 3 rows of 2-3-2 to the front of the Y Class)

I understand the 333 situation is not ideal. But Comfort Class should be offered in most LH flights to help the brand. The pax becomes uninterested/unhappy when plane types change on the day off or they transfer from on class to another when buying one type of ticket.
So if we agree that TK should keep CC, can we also agree that 333 should get it also?
If not 3 rows, maybe 2 rows of 2-3-2, it would be 14 seats, still not bad and this way doesn't take away too much from the Y. SO with 2 rows of CC;
333 = 28J /14Comfort / 239Y (At 14 seats; a very small section, but maybe that is just what TK needs to keep the LH fleets uniform)

And again, Comfort Class will only survive if its numbers decreased and sold at a higher price, at least double Y ticket price. I think this could be doable.
What are your thoughts??
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:49 pm

Quoting MeCe (Reply 84):
Even they use their 777's only long haul routes CC cant make money under current circumstances. Lets make same calculation.

It sounds very plausible to me.
So why does it take so long to get the CC seats out and put all Y instead? I mean they must be using a lot of money with this.
 
MeCe
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:08 pm

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 87):
It sounds very plausible to me.
So why does it take so long to get the CC seats out and put all Y instead? I mean they must be using a lot of money with this.

Cabin reconfiguration is not a cheap thing, especially when you think kill a new product. I am cruios; how they manage LH fleet with so different cabin configurations, e.g what will happen after new 777s arrvied w/o comfort class ? Personally I will be not happy such a downgrade becasuse of last minute equipment swap.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:14 pm

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 78):
2. Can we expect a higher number of business class seats on their new A330s and 777s? I think a number around 40J seats should be doable for TK

TK will be rolling out a new business class product in the next year. I'm not too sure the count will increase much, but the product will get a nice boost from what I hear.

Quoting MeCe (Reply 82):
It make no money I guess..

Unfortunately that is the truth. With cabin space limited, each square meter needs to pay for itself. At the moment TK can make more money with the space as either C or Y, not CC.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 86):
I wonder what Pegasus thinks about that?

Dont worry, they have plans to grow outside SAW. While SAW has 32 aircraft today, there are aircraft based in Izmir, Antalya and the smallest base Adana. A 5th base should be announced by next summer. All will certainly grow, and PGT will become less reliant on Istanbul.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 86):
And again, Comfort Class will only survive if its numbers decreased and sold at a higher price, at least double Y ticket price. I think this could be doable.
What are your thoughts??

At the end it really comes down the yield they can generate from CC. Unfortunately CC has not been able to pay for its space and must compete with other classes of service for the same square footage onboard.

Great product, but like I have mentioned in prior threads, too much went wrong. Not the least being the commercial executive that gave birth to CC is no longer there to fight for it.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
NuD38
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:58 pm

There are about 26 carriers offering premium economy seats. TK and DY are the most generous with 46" seat pitch. AF, NH, BA and SK offer 38" while KL offers 35". Do we know the reason why TK decided to offer 21-31% more space for premium economy seat compared to its rivals?
 
ASA
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:14 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 76):
Either SAW has to be brought up to the task with lots of narrowbodies being based there - or IST will be a busy parking lot (atleast new parking aprons are coming up in the military area, right?).
Quoting TK105 (Reply 79):
TK CEO Mr. Kotil speaks to WSJ:

http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...l-lufthansa-ile-isbirligi-yok.html

Important headlines are as follows:

- TK will grow in SAW till 3rd Airport finishes. Currently there are only 17 planes at SAW, gradually quantity will be up to 100 within few years. Operational structure will be similar to IST in future. Idea is to double the size of TK using SAW and become the biggest in Europe.

I have become a soothsayer!!!   

Quoting TK787 (Reply 86):
So we will see Boston and Montreal-IST flights start next year in addition to AC flying daily YYZ-IST.
Wow!! Who would have thought.

  

Awesome news for New England ... people from southern ME/NH, RI, and MA can drive to BOS for 1-stop options to 200+ destinations!!! Even people from VT and Northern NH, even Upstate NY can drive to YUL for the same connectivity! My guess is YYZ will 6x and YUL will start with 3x weekly. Let's see  
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:28 am

Quoting NuD38 (Reply 90):
Do we know the reason why TK decided to offer 21-31% more space for premium economy seat compared to its rivals?

I have the impression that TK wants to balance its lack in professionality (in service) with a good hard product...

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 77):
YVR does not seem to be in the plans so far but would be a very profitable route to start may be thrice weekly but it will take a while after YUL I guess. YVR is the second largest airport in Canada and sure lacks any flight beyond FRA in Eastern direction. EK and QR are dying to get in but no chance by AC to allow as this will make a significant loss for AC on thie ex-YVR partnerhip with LH. If TK can manage to sneak from this door great. The double daily LHR YVR by BA 747 is filled with onward connection to India so TK will steal that traffic I hope.

But this will need some time i guess... Maybe another 5 years...
 
Turkish777X
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:38 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:00 am

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 92):
Do we know the reason why TK decided to offer 21-31% more space for premium economy seat compared to its rivals?

I have the impression that TK wants to balance its lack in professionality (in service) with a good hard product...

I think at that time TK was not believing that they could fill an entire 777s with more than 350 seats. Probably this was a too high number a that time. So they might have thought of putting the a space consuming CC to use that space and at the same time create attraction for its brand.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3078
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:17 am

Quoting TK773ER (Reply 23):
That's great news does any here know or think how TK will serve these two cities ?

Just like ASA, my bet is on 6x YYZ and 3x YUL, and not because YUL can't handle more, but rather because TK should serve YYZ with at least 6 flights/week !

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
User avatar
TK105
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:40 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:35 pm

It is time for TK Management to think seriously about starting flights to Australia in 2014. During 2015, 100th anniversary of Anzac campaign against Turkey back in WW1, a new occupation wave is coming but this time as tourists. 

It has been discussed many times in this forum that a 1 stop connectivity between SYD/MEL and IST via BKK/CGK/MLE/? would not attract connecting traffic. But I think even O&D traffic can be enough for this route, since many Australians makes this route as a kind of pilgrimage. This may create a lot of additional tourism.

Logical selection of mid stop may also contribute to additional traffic between Australia and mid-stop, as well as mid-stop and IST.
The future is in the skies.
 
TK773ER
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:08 am

RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:09 am

Quoting TK105 (Reply 95):

I could not agree with you more on this one, Trafalgar managing director Matthew Cameron-Smith said Turkey was on everyone's lips in the lead-up to the centenary of the Gallipoli landings in 2015. "We're seeing rapidly increasing numbers of Australians placing Turkey on their holiday radar and we are witnessing a real boom in people still booking for this year, with next year looking incredibly positive too," he said.

"We know there's always been a special connection between Australia and Turkey and as resilient as Australians travellers are, we're not deterred by recent events.".Fastest-growing destinations Turkey +8% 40,000 Although it's not highest on the list here is the link. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...-year/story-e6frfq80-1226690392522

Both MEL and SYD not only have large Turkish community but also both have a large population of people from the Balkans and Eastern Europe area,Those numbers above is for Australians traveling to Turkey, If you add in the numbers traveling to the Balkans and Eastern Europe you can double if not triple those figures above.Yes it will be a two stop operation but the advantage TK has over the likes of EK, EY and QR, TK serves secondary airports but at the end of the day it all comes down to making $$$$$...

With QF/EK partnership is it better for TK just to code share with TG or will they do it alone who knows? I for one would love to see TK here but it's like singing the same tune to the same crowd maybe someday someone new may walk into the crowd and listen to the song we are singing????
 
MeCe
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:19 am

RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:12 pm

Quoting TK105 (Reply 95):
It has been discussed many times in this forum that a 1 stop connectivity between SYD/MEL and IST via BKK/CGK/MLE/? would not attract connecting traffic. But I think even O&D traffic can be enough for this route, since many Australians makes this route as a kind of pilgrimage. This may create a lot of additional tourism.


With a stop SYD-IST flight loose its attraction but it is doable, competition will be much harder bacuse of there are many alternatives for transit passengers. On the other hand; I think TK is considering new 777X family performance for IST-SYD route. If 778X can do this route economically they will jump with longer model; 779X, good fleet commonnidalty for both customer experiance and op/mx costs. Most probably we will see this new family instead of 380 in TK colors.
 
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TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4618
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:06 pm

Quoting MeCe (Reply 97):
I think TK is considering new 777X family performance for IST-SYD route.

I think you are suggesting a non-stop flight.
It could be a 17+ hour flight. Even a new generation plane will be "fuel tankering" most of the way; also you might have to have two sets of crews, you might have to serve 3 meals, and you might have to have 34" Y seats. I don't know how many frames needed to equip this flight. What if the plane have a mechanical problem at SYD, can you imagine the delays, sending a replacement aircraft.
How could this flight can make money?
 
MeCe
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:19 am

RE: Turkish Aviation October 2013

Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:06 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 98):
I think you are suggesting a non-stop flight.
It could be a 17 hour flight. Even a new generation plane will be "fuel tankering" most of the way; also you might have to have two sets of crews, you might have to serve 3 meals, and you might have to have 34" Y seats. I don't know how many frames needed to equip this flight. What if the plane have a mechanical problem at SYD, can you imagine the delays, sending a replacement aircraft.
How could this flight can make money?

Most important thing is crew issue I agree. But you dont need to 34" pich; I would make 32-33" @ 10 abreast 777 cabin and at least 60 premium economy seat to create win win situation; more ecomony class and push fr premium class. And dont worry TK has not back up 777 nowadays, if your plane break you will be stranded anywhere including IST.

Or, throw all above; contiue your flight to SYD via bangkok like SIN before and SGN now  

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