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ORD2010
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Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:52 pm

So my friend who is a flight attendant for AA said that things are getting serious up in the US skies as it would seem that terrorist are running test runs for a new attack on US soil. Most recently was one on a US airways flight from Reagan to MCO where one of the suspects ran from his seat in coach to the bathrooms by the cockpit and stayed for a very long time while his 3 other friends began to go through over head bins and walk around the plane, being that it left from the core of DC it seems very odd and I can imagine scary for the passengers. But it appears that this is not the first time, this to me is quite frightening as I'm constantly on planes in between all major US cities, my hunch would be that NYC, CHI, and DC would be the main targets if anything was to become a reality. What does everyone think on this? I know this is a very touchy subject especially in the US, and for me even more as I attend the uni the terrorist of 9/11 trained in. I do not mean offense to anyone with this. Here is a link to the article she posted which offers better insight into the 'dry run' on the US flight:

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/nati...ando-used-terrorist-dry-run/nbKyh/

Stay safe everyone, and fly the friendly skies!

[Edited 2013-10-11 14:54:47]
 
dsuairptman
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:26 pm

First, I don't like the station making claims that it is certian that dry runs are happening. That is just a mainstream media shock jolt.

Next if our intellegince is as good as they say it is, then why weren't any or all of these alleged terrorist already on the "No-fly" list? It would seem if someone forgien was in this country trying to cause harm they would be under a lot of scrutniy regarding their movements and who they interacted with.

Next what was the outcome of this particular scene? Where the alleged terrorists apprehended and investigated? Or did they just walk free?
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:26 pm

So, did the cockpit call ahead and have them detained? If not, why not?
 
dsuairptman
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:57 pm

Further investigation shows the men in question were detained and questioned, no word on whether they were charged or not. If not then our systems to protect have failed and someone should answer for that.
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
tharanga
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:35 pm

Not this again. I bet that almost every single time some passengers or crew thought they were seeing a dry run, there was nothing of the sort going on. Imaginations run wild, and details get embellished.
 
flood
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:45 pm

Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 3):
no word on whether they were charged or not. If not then our systems to protect have failed and someone should answer for that.

What do you suggest charging them with? Getting out of their seats? Opening overhead bins? Going to the bathroom? Just curious.

How much of the article is exaggerated, if any of it? Would any of their activities have been considered "suspicious" had they been caucasian? Was it a dry run or mere paranoia?
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:48 pm

Quoting tharanga (Reply 4):
Not this again. I bet that almost every single time some passengers or crew thought they were seeing a dry run, there was nothing of the sort going on. Imaginations run wild, and details get embellished.

I'll take imaginations running wild over complacency and 9-11 redux.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:55 pm

Um does anyone else think this sounds pretty stupid? Why would a bunch of terrorists freak out an airplane and potentially get arrested by practicing something you could easily practice, IDK, anywhere else? I'm calling BS on this one
 
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Aesma
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:04 am

9/11 had nothing to do with complacency, at least not on board the planes. At the time you just let hijackers do what they had to do, over letting them kill hostages. As soon as people understood that this was not a classic hijack where the perps want to go somewhere, prisoners released or something of the sort, things changed, and this happened on the very same day, on board UA93.

If you can do something to the plane by "staying a long time in the toilet" then review the design of the toilet. Of course lighting explosives or something like that is not supposed to be possible thanks to ground security, if you manage to get a bomb on board today, you have made most of the work and that would certainly not qualify as a dry run, on the other hand I don't see the point of a dry run at all, outside of flying to be familiar with the experience, but you'd expect terrorists to keep the lowest profile while doing that.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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BaconButty
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:11 am

Crikey, one of them went to the bog for "for a considerable length of time." When me and my Daily Mirror go for a constitutional I give the wife and kids a hug. I swear the kids had grown last time.

What I don't get is, what is this a "dry run" for? Denying the infidel use of the facilities for a whole flight? Confusing the crusader by moving his carry on? Carnage!
Down with that sort of thing!
 
trnswrld
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:21 am

Well they aren't going to get into the cockpit that's for sure. They can do whatever they want in the back of plane whether that means killing people to blowing the plane up, but I can assure you that they will will not have control of that aircraft. Well I guess I cant assure anything, but im pretty sure no pilot is going to open that door.
 
virgin744
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:37 am

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 9):

But if you read the memo further it offers a more detailed and suspicious chain of events;

http://news.yahoo.com/terrorists-doi...11-style-dry-runs-u-143200600.html


A group of Middle Eastern males boarded in DCA. Shortly after takeoff, one got up and ran from his seat in coach towards the flight deck door. He made a hard left and entered the forward lav, where he stayed for a considerable length of time! While he was in there, the others got up and proceeded to move about the cabin, changing seats, opening overhead bins, and generally making a scene. They appeared to be trying to occupy and distract the flight attendants.

One man getting up to go to the bog is one thing but when he runs towards the cockpit and then suddenly darts off to the toilet *whilst at the same time* his fellow middle-eastern passengers all get up and make a commotion it would cause people to look up and take notice.

One thing happening isn't a big deal but when numerous things all happen together or in a chain it should be viewed as suspicious or concerning..
Anyone who doesn't feel that's the case are in my mind the same kind of people that ignore something as insignificant until it happens and its too late to prevent.

Its a bit like watching a safety video on someone driving a car in snow or bad weather- if you just look at the road and where the persons driving without paying careful attention to all the other things going on in your peripheral vision along the side of the road, you could easily be chalked up for missing an old lady walking along the side of the road who's potentially a slip/fall victim who could end up falling into the road at the same time another vehicle crosses lanes without indicating to force the car in the closest lane to the walker to take avoiding action which ultimately ends up as running over the old lady..

Its really not difficult for many things to happen at the same time which ultimately ends up causing a disaster.

Err on the side of caution was the term used a lot when I was young and I don't see anything wrong with being cautious in this instance and other instances like this either.
 
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BaconButty
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:06 am

Quoting virgin744 (Reply 11):
Err on the side of caution was the term used a lot when I was young and I don't see anything wrong with being cautious in this instance and other instances like this either.

"Keep calm and carry on" is another one which seems back in vogue. In all seriousness, I've read the union memo - the original is here http://www.wtsp.com/assetpool/docume...s/131008021206_security%20memo.pdf - and the whole thing is desperately alarmist. It's a union document exhorting its members not to cave in to operational pressures, which is a good thing in itself, but it's not any kind of objective account or investigation of the incident. In any case, "There was a FAM team aboard the DCA-MCO leg, and they thought it serious enough to get up and “make their presence known.”. So the authorities are aware of the incident and those involved, and, let's be honest, in these post-Snowden times they would use any excuse to remind us of the terrorist threat if one had existed in this case. So far even their account is quite consistent with a bad dose of the squits and a couple of people rummaging around for wet wipes in their stowed hand luggage. But if theres more to it than has been revealed . . .
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:11 am

Quoting tharanga (Reply 4):
Not this again. I bet that almost every single time some passengers or crew thought they were seeing a dry run, there was nothing of the sort going on. Imaginations run wild, and details get embellished.

I remember once -- while sitting is 3E -- one of the boarding coach passengers stopped opposite me, he flashed his 'deputy-dog' ID at me, and warned me "I'll be keeping an eye on you."

Since I thought he might be expecting a response from me, I told him, "I try to avoid a**holes, so I'll be avoiding both you and your wife."

One of the other passengers explained to me that I bore a striking resemblance to H.R.H. Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia and that I should have the man flogged.

I'm sure the second passenger was kidding.   

[Edited 2013-10-11 19:13:45]
 
Piedmont727
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:13 am

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 9):
What I don't get is, what is this a "dry run" for?

to test the reactions of the flight crew, athorities on the ground before and after the flight and if any reaction from air marshal's id assume
 
Maverick623
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:43 am

Quoting virgin744 (Reply 11):
A group of Middle Eastern males
Quoting virgin744 (Reply 11):
his fellow middle-eastern passengers

And this is the ONLY reason anyone made a fuss of it.

Just a bunch of racist and alarmist drivel, nothing more. Had it been a bunch of white guys or women, nothing would have been said about it... even though Richard Reid is white.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 6):
I'll take imaginations running wild over complacency and 9-11 redux

Implying that "imaginations running wild" is any better than complacency: they're both dumb and ineffective.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
thekennady
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:50 am

Quoting ord2010 (Thread starter):
But it appears that this is not the first time, this to me is quite frightening as I'm constantly on planes in between all major US cities

One of the best ways to keep control over a population is to make up or exaggerate a potential outside threat to public safety, the public will then run to the "Authorities" to protect them from the so called threat. This allows power to be maximized and control measures to be implemented on the population that would normally never be accepted.

This type of thinking creates a atmosphere of paranoia that teaches the population to profile and tell on each other for essentially nothing at all, and creates stressful situations and reduces the ability for people to live free and sensibly. In actuality you have a better chance of dying from food poisoning, choking, or being killed by a fellow American over a dispute over a parking spot then you do from a so called "terrorist attack"

Governments and corporations make a lot of money and control a lot of people through this fear doctrine. The can tax us to pay for things like Air Marshalls, (none of which have ever stopped a terror attack and they have even killed a few unarmed people), TSA, Contracts with companies who sell equipment like the body scanners and other machines also make money by supposedly "keeping us safe". Security is necessary but everything has its limits, we don't need to be paranoid and jumpy at everything that makes us slightly uncomfortable because its more than likely in the end not a real issue.

There are enough aware people around that if someone does something silly on a plane, people can step in and handle it like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin_Airlines_Flight_7554

We don't need to run to GOV for every issue because in the end it will leave us with less freedom, money, and more stress. This whole issue of "terrorism" is 98% made up, its mainly in your mind. My question is how long will people continue to fall for the scare tactics issued by those in control. People that work for TSA, Pilots, FAs, and people who work in or around airports have all been trained to be paranoid, and many of them lack the intelligence to use common sense. Instead they exploit the little power they have in order to feel important. its silly and immature.
 
Indy
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:08 am

These stories strike me as little people trying to get their 5 minutes of fame. They want to be the hero that helped catch the terrorist before anyone got hurt. It is sad and pathetic and unfortunately innocent people get treated like criminals. People really need to get over themselves. You aren't saving the world. That suspicious envelope with a powdery substance is just a dirty old envelope. That suspicious device is just a kids toy. People frustrate me with their pretending to be more important than they really are. I blame much of that on the media for throwing around the term "hero" for every trivial act. Just because you did a good deed doesn't make you a hero.

/rant
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
turjo101
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:25 am

Quoting ord2010 (Thread starter):
Most recently was one on a US airways flight from Reagan to MCO where one of the suspects ran from his seat in coach to the bathrooms by the cockpit and stayed for a very long time

Possibly one brown guy, adversely reacting to what he considered "ethnic food" (something traditional in the West)...while

Quoting ord2010 (Thread starter):
while his 3 other friends began to go through over head bins and walk around the plane

while his friends frantically looked for the small bottle of pepto bismol that saved them in the cab ride to the airport...momentarily forgetting that the TSA probably had seized it because it was 125 mL for "security reasons"... too bad it wasn't enough to make a plane full of white people feel secured.
 
ORD2010
Topic Author
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:36 am

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 18):

Quoting ord2010 (Thread starter):
Most recently was one on a US airways flight from Reagan to MCO where one of the suspects ran from his seat in coach to the bathrooms by the cockpit and stayed for a very long time

Possibly one brown guy, adversely reacting to what he considered "ethnic food" (something traditional in the West)...while

Quoting ord2010 (Thread starter):
while his 3 other friends began to go through over head bins and walk around the plane

while his friends frantically looked for the small bottle of pepto bismol that saved them in the cab ride to the airport...momentarily forgetting that the TSA probably had seized it because it was 125 mL for "security reasons"... too bad it wasn't enough to make a plane full of white people feel secured.

That explanation made my day! I can only imagine if that was the situation haha.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:33 am

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 9):
Crikey, one of them went to the bog for "for a considerable length of time." When me and my Daily Mirror go for a constitutional I give the wife and kids a hug. I swear the kids had grown last time.

What I don't get is, what is this a "dry run" for? Denying the infidel use of the facilities for a whole flight? Confusing the crusader by moving his carry on? Carnage!

Without addressing the topic directly, I'll just say that I thoroughly enjoyed this reply.  

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
opethfan
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:00 am

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 13):
one of the boarding coach passengers stopped opposite me, he flashed his 'deputy-dog' ID at me, and warned me "I'll be keeping an eye on you."

Care to expand? "deputy-dog"?

Quoting thekennady (Reply 16):

The founding fathers are weeping.
 
a380900
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:16 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
I'm calling BS on this one

I agree. This smells and feels like psy-ops. Nothing of substance. It just leaves a taste of threat in the mouth of the unsuspecting reader but there is absolutely nothing one can fact-check in the story.

Plenty of small articles like that are planted around the country to create just the desired level of paranoia among the public. No more, no less. Also a law that prevented the US government to direct propaganda at US citizen has been changed recently in order to authorize it. The BS detector of everyone should be upgraded big time.

Yes, ord2010, I'm looking at you. Please spare us this kind of stupidity going forward. Otherwise we'll have to assume you have some stake in making this forum a propaganda platform.

[Edited 2013-10-11 23:22:17]
 
tozairport
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:27 am

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Get over it.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
bennett123
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:47 am

If you were going to try to get into the cockpit, why book a seat in economy.

First or Business class are much closer.
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:53 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 15):

And this is the ONLY reason anyone made a fuss of it.

Just a bunch of racist and alarmist drivel, nothing more. Had it been a bunch of white guys or women, nothing would have been said about it... even though Richard Reid is white.

No one is going to stand up to this out of fear, so I will. This type of ignorance is what's wrong with America today. Do we always need to become PC righteous and put the blinders on for fear of being prejudice? White children and elderly (profiles that have never fit a terrorist) are exposed to full body radiation scanning everyday. Is that not enough for you?

Are you even aware of the number of radical islamic jihadist terrorist attacks all over the world the past 25 years? The numbers overwhelming outweigh the Timothy McVeigh's of the world. The facts are the facts. Get over your unresolved guilt...
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:02 am

Quoting virgin744 (Reply 11):
One man getting up to go to the bog is one thing but when he runs towards the cockpit and then suddenly darts off to the toilet

You know, I'd be surprised if everyone hasn't had days when they've had to run to the loo, then spent a considerable time in there.   
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
nema
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:47 am

Quoting tvnwz (Reply 2):
So, did the cockpit call ahead and have them detained? If not, why not?

Exactly, and the passenger list should help identify them but surely, the risk of them then having a police investigation and search of their homes, families, background etc. Makes it a bit unlikely to me unless they are a bit stupid.

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 10):
Well they aren't going to get into the cockpit that's for sure. They can do whatever they want in the back of plane whether that means killing people to blowing the plane up, but I can assure you that they will will not have control of that aircraft. Well I guess I cant assure anything, but im pretty sure no pilot is going to open that door.

One would hope not but i have often wondered how well a cockpit door would hold up to a robust bloke trying to break it down? Even if the door opens out, could it possibly be pushed out of its frame? At least the pilots would be well aware from the commotion and hopefully ready to counter any intended iuntrusion.
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
 
sweair
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:58 am

The guy who ran to the toilet may not have had a "dry" run..
 
rtfm
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:19 am

Quoting sweair (Reply 30):
The guy who ran to the toilet may not have had a "dry" run..

Best response so far.....            
 
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OA260
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:32 am

Quoting RTFM (Reply 31):
Best response so far.....

+1 LMAO !  

In all seriousness ''dry runs'' would not surprise me. Over the years in different terrorism plans law enforcement agencies have often monitored such things. They allow them to go so far so they can gather more info on the group and their members etc... When it gets to critical level they swoop and pull them in.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:57 am

Paranoia abound.

9/11 was, as others have said, only possible by exploiting existing loopholes, either in terms of allowable items (box cutters), or the passengers mindset. We are prepared to react to past acts of terrorism and a 9/11 scenario will plainly not happen anymore. Any bright-minded terrorist will know this, and plan accordingly.

And the "terror" in "terrorism" only unfolds when somebody would do what is completely unexpected, and the aviation security probably won't know about this threat anyway. Something that is readily perceived as an attempt by the passengers? Lame.

I would rather know how the security agencies prevents a passenger smuggling Gallium on an airplane, which readily forms a very brittle alloy with Aluminium. True, the anti-corrosion priming coat on the metal will prevent such damage, but... well. One could try and produce a write-off within some minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaMWxLCGY0U


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
brilondon
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:45 am

Paranoia can destroy yeah...this is just mainstream media fueled scare tactics that the government is using to take away rights and freedoms of the general populous that will allow them to control and manipulate people into oblivion.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
flyingwithfish
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:23 pm

As someone who professional covers aviation security extensively, and has since Sept 15 2001, and who has written in detail about threats, how threats are sought out, possible weapons, tactics, etc ... I can tell you with some certainty that this was not a dry run.

DHS does not think it was a dry run and a dry run for an attack on DC would more than likely be tested on out a city other than DC as to not draw attention to themselves. Overhead bins make no sense for a dry run, any weapon would be available to them at their feet or on their person. Storming up to the cockpit would do nothing as pilots will not open the cockpit they will take other actions.

This is a sensational story and one with little teeth.
Find Me On Twitter @flyingwithfish
 
soon7x7
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:04 pm

Quoting ord2010 (Thread starter):
I do not mean offense to anyone with this.

No need to apologize for a reality you have no part of...Either way, another 9/11 is sure to occur as on that infamous day, the Islamic Radicals were terribly successful. America will always be in the crosshairs of these radicals. You don't have to listen to the "mainstream media" to understand what goes on here.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 25):
Are you even aware of the number of radical islamic jihadist terrorist attacks all over the world the past 25 years? The numbers overwhelming outweigh the Timothy McVeigh's of the world. The facts are the facts.

All one has to do is google previous attacks on US airliners and civilians including hijackings by Islamic Radicals prior to 9/11. The list is surprisingly long. Those events occurred in times when radical groups were not as well funded and were relatively small as compared to the current better funded and more informed groups that are now part of a global movement.

Quoting tozairport (Reply 23):
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Get over it

The "get over it " part is disturbing...never get over it,...keep watching the videos of 9/11 to remind yourself of the "wolfpack" that is outside your door.
 
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par13del
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:49 pm

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 9):
What I don't get is, what is this a "dry run" for? Denying the infidel use of the facilities for a whole flight? Confusing the crusader by moving his carry on?

So prior to 9/11 when those involved flew through the airports to see how security was set up that meant nothing, how about if the shoe bomber had decided to put his bomb together in the toilet versus at his seat?

I understand the reasons for dry runs, not willing to dismiss because I do not immediately see then sense in what is being done. Just saying
 
srbmod
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:58 pm

If this was in fact a "dry run" for future attacks, these guys seem to be as inept as some of the people that have been arrested in recent years for attempted terror plots/attacks. Perhaps their thinking was that one of the pilots would have to use the front lav at some point and when the cockpit door opened up, they would rush in and take over the flight deck. The problem is that as long as that lav is occupied, neither the captain or the first officer will be leaving the flight deck. When they do leave the flight deck to go to the lav, the aisle is blocked off. Not to mention that one or both pilots could be a member of the Federal Flight Deck Officer program and is carrying a pistol with them.

The thing is that some rather trivial incidents on flights have spurred terrorism scares because of the ethnicity of the people in question scared other passengers. Several airlines have taken heat in recent for removing passengers of Middle Eastern or the Indian Subcontinent because passengers got up in arms over those passengers speaking in their native language or praying while onboard. I remember an AirTran flight a number of years ago being delayed over an anti-war sticker as passenger stuck on the side of the plane.
 
JimJupiter
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:08 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 30):
The guy who ran to the toilet may not have had a "dry" run..

   The threat level color chart was just set to brown.

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 9):
What I don't get is, what is this a "dry run" for?

Exactly. Even buying into its premises, the story doesn't make much sense.
One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
 
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par13del
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RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:21 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 39):
If this was in fact a "dry run" for future attacks, these guys seem to be as inept as some of the people that have been arrested in recent years for attempted terror plots/attacks.

Perhaps they were just "cannon fodder" goaded into something as a prank, nothing more.
Now the instigators could have been looking for and measuring responses.

There are experts who look at such things, our issue is that to some degree the general population has lost some faith and confidence in these folks so everyone is now an expert and paranoia is becoming second place.
On the other hand, it does provide good conversation.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1874
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting thekennady (Reply 16):

There are enough aware people around that if someone does something silly on a plane, people can step in and handle it like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin..._7554

Or this incident. Anyone remember it when passengers killed another passenger on a Southwest flight?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1763

Considering how full planes are these days, trying something like rushing the cockpit isn't likely to be very successful. After all, the more recent attempts have involved explosives right at the passenger's seat.
 
ASA
Posts: 1125
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:12 pm

RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:48 pm

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 18):
Possibly one brown guy, adversely reacting to what he considered "ethnic food" (something traditional in the West)...while
Quoting turjo101 (Reply 18):
while his friends frantically looked for the small bottle of pepto bismol that saved them in the cab ride to the airport...momentarily forgetting that the TSA probably had seized it because it was 125 mL for "security reasons"... too bad it wasn't enough to make a plane full of white people feel secured.

Hahaha Turjo .... Russell Peters has new competition! 

IF it was deemed a "dry run" the authorities should have investigated up to their potholes (and would have found some links by now). IF NOT, they have been released I presume, and we do not have the right to judge them anymore as potential troublemakers.
 
777ord
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:04 pm

RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:48 pm

Quoting tozairport (Reply 23):

I bet if they were a regular "middle class" family no one would think anything other than some idiot who can't follow instructions... It's a shame that so many years later, many can't get over that stigma/ mindset. But typical media will twist it around and make it seem like we are not safe. blah blah blah.

I suppose when I fly Royal Jordanian and (hypothetically) see the same thing again that they're taking over that plane, too? Or, is it just US carriers?? :S....
 
nutsaboutplanes
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:37 am

RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:55 pm

I think its important for everybody to understand that getting a feel for how flight crews and passengers will respond to "abnormalities" is a strategy. If you know how people will respond, you can build a plan that takes that into consideration.

Before 9-11, several of the terror suspects flew on numerous flights within the US. One could argue that they were just going from point A to point B but does anyone really think that they were not watching every move that the pilots and flight attendants made looking for opportunities such as flight deck bathroom breaks and taking meals to the flight deck?

No matter how you slice it, it is abnormal for 4 adult men from the same party to get up at the same time on a flight.
American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
 
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N62NA
Posts: 4515
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:56 pm

There was another one reported yesterday on a national talk show.

Go here: http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/ and scroll down to: I Witnessed ‘Dry Run’ on US Airways Flight 2095 on 9/9/2013.
 
bristolflyer
Posts: 2103
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 1:35 am

RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:01 pm

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 42):
No matter how you slice it, it is abnormal for 4 adult men from the same party to get up at the same time on a flight.

Not totally unthinkable - I always get the window seat and I'll always wait for the middle seat and aisle seat pax to get up for when I need to go to the toilet resulting in 3 people getting up at the same time.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 43):
There was another one reported yesterday on a national talk show.

Perfect talk show material. Sensationalist drivel.
Fortune favours the brave
 
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CALTECH
Posts: 3491
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:21 am

RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:05 pm

Shocked at the attitude of so many posting on this thread. Maybe it is being blown up out of proportion to keep the population cowed. The USAPA did not believe so, they put a memo out about this incident. It is believed that a tactic of aircraft terrorists, is to charge towards the cockpit, hoping to reveal the Air Marshals on board. It has nothing to do with getting the pilots opening the door, as some have alluded to. The others opening overhead bins and making a big fuss is another way terrorists believe they can reveal Air Marshals. The suspects doing all this activity might have been accompanied by others who noted and observed the reactions and personnel onboard.

Making light of the time spent in the LAV is also troublesome. There 'supposedly' was evidence of tampering in the LAV in this incident. There is a reaason why certain items have been removed from the LAVs. There has also been chatter about multiple 'innocent passengers' coming on board with different components or 'allowed' quantities of items, and then putting them together in a LAV.

9-11 forever changed airliners for me. After working on B-52s and being so close to their mighty and destructive loads, it was humbling. Airliners, up to 9-11 for me, were great aircraft that people together from far away. Brought families together for special occasions and holidays, or allowed one to see another part of the world. On 9-11, they were used as weapons. It forever changed airliners. Very sure that all onboard ( except for 19 scum) and on the ground on 9-11 who lost their lives, would have loved to see less complacency and less PC, and a little more profiling and security. Sure their families would too. Being a little bit cautious and suspicious might have prevented some events of that tragic day, but even a agent said he was suspicious of them, but did nothing. Probably thought he might be too cautious and suspicious by doing anything , and would be accused of profiling, or worse a racist.

For the 19 scum onboard, they were happy that agents were complacent and not profiling in their duties. Bet they were shocked that no one thought they were suspicious and stopped them at all. Disappointed at many of these posts.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 37):
No need to apologize for a reality you have no part of...Either way, another 9/11 is sure to occur as on that infamous day, the Islamic Radicals were terribly successful. America will always be in the crosshairs of these radicals. You don't have to listen to the "mainstream media" to understand what goes on here.

Sadly, it could happen to airliners again. They tried in 1993 to bomb one WTC tower and make it fall over and knock the other one down. They succeeded in knocking them both down 8 years later.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 37):
All one has to do is google previous attacks on US airliners and civilians including hijackings by Islamic Radicals prior to 9/11. The list is surprisingly long. Those events occurred in times when radical groups were not as well funded and were relatively small as compared to the current better funded and more informed groups that are now part of a global movement.

After exposing the plot to blow up multiple airliners flying to the U.S. in 1995, under Clinton, you would think that they would have stepped up security by 9-11, under Bush. 9-11 changed the way terrorists hijacked planes and demanded things, now they want to blow them up.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 37):
The "get over it " part is disturbing...never get over it,...keep watching the videos of 9/11 to remind yourself of the "wolfpack" that is outside your door.
Quoting par13del (Reply 38):
So prior to 9/11 when those involved flew through the airports to see how security was set up that meant nothing, how about if the shoe bomber had decided to put his bomb together in the toilet versus at his seat?

Absolutely.
Quoting par13del (Reply 38):
I understand the reasons for dry runs, not willing to dismiss because I do not immediately see then sense in what is being done. Just saying

Dry runs can distract from others who will do the real thing.

Quoting par13del (Reply 41):
Perhaps they were just "cannon fodder" goaded into something as a prank, nothing more.
Now the instigators could have been looking for and measuring responses.
Quoting par13del (Reply 41):
There are experts who look at such things, our issue is that to some degree the general population has lost some faith and confidence in these folks so everyone is now an expert and paranoia is becoming second place.
On the other hand, it does provide good conversation.
Quoting Aesma (Reply 8):
9/11 had nothing to do with complacency, at least not on board the planes. At the time you just let hijackers do what they had to do, over letting them kill hostages. As soon as people understood that this was not a classic hijack where the perps want to go somewhere, prisoners released or something of the sort, things changed, and this happened on the very same day, on board UA93.
They should have realized this new and deadly hijacking after the incidents of 1995.
You are here.
 
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N62NA
Posts: 4515
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 44):
Perfect talk show material. Sensationalist drivel.

Did you go to the link? The guy is a Private Investigator. In case you went to the wrong part of the page, here's his blog entry:

On September 9th, 2013 I was on US Airways Flight 2095 out of Newark Headed to Sarasota Fl with a stop in Charlotte NC. I was in seat 6B, seated directly in front of me were two Arab males, they were about 22 years old and 26 years old, the one seated to my left spent the whole time of the flight, about 1 hour and 15 minutes, making diagrams of the cabin, making note of where the drink cart was kept and notes on the activity of the flight attendants. The flight attendants (all women) appeared to be alerted about the two Arab males and kept close tabs on them. The Two Arab males spoke no English during the flight, they both had on NY Yankee baseball caps and wore black t-shirts and jeans and the older Arab male made frequent trips to the bathroom. I watched these two Arab guys intently as we took off and landed. Upon arrival in Charlotte the Two Arab males made a quick departure and I followed then as they headed for their connecting flight which appeared to be to Fort Lauderdale Fl, they both had large backpacks as a carry-on. The younger Arab male did not speak or understand English, the older Arab guy had to explain everything in Arabic, these guys were not Yankee baseball fans, they were posers. .
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1980
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:15 pm

So one middle east guy runs - not walks - runs to the lavatory and stays there for an extended time. Then his three middle east cohorts get up and make a scene rummaging through the overhead bins and generally calling attention to themselves. Either these are some really dumb terrorists or passengers/crew are freaking out because of their ethnicity.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:39 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 25):

No one is going to stand up to this out of fear, so I will.

I disagree with you, but I respect you for not cowering to fear. Thank you.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 25):
This type of ignorance is what's wrong with America today. Do we always need to become PC righteous and put the blinders on for fear of being prejudice?

It's not about putting the PC blinders on, it's about taking the racial blinders off.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 25):
White children and elderly (profiles that have never fit a terrorist) are exposed to full body radiation scanning everyday. Is that not enough for you?

I don't think anybody should be exposed to radiation scanning ever, except when seeing a doctor.

And I'll say it again: had this been a white adult male or woman, nobody would have batted an eye.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 25):

Are you even aware of the number of radical islamic jihadist terrorist attacks all over the world the past 25 years?

I'm also aware of the number of drunk driving crashes, gang-related murders, and deaths from second-hand smoke all over the world over the last 25 years... all of which are far more likely to kill you or me than some spooky olive-skinned guy trying to bring down an airplane. In fact, I will guarantee that neither you nor anyone you know will be killed or even wounded in such a manner, but that a few have a decent chance of dying in one of those other ways.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 25):
The facts are the facts.

Not when you cherry pick them.

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 45):
The USAPA did not believe so

Nothing more than alarmist union propaganda.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 46):
two Arab males
Quoting N62NA (Reply 46):
The Two Arab males
Quoting N62NA (Reply 46):
two Arab guys
Quoting N62NA (Reply 46):
The younger Arab
Quoting N62NA (Reply 46):
the older Arab guy

Yes, this guy's account is free of any bias  
Quoting N62NA (Reply 46):
The younger Arab male did not speak or understand English, the older Arab guy had to explain everything in Arabic, these guys were not Yankee baseball fans, they were posers. .

I wasn't aware one needed to speak English to be a Yankee fan, or to make a fashion statement.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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Acey559
Posts: 1449
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

RE: Terrorist Performing 'Dry Runs'.

Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:59 pm

My company and union is usually pretty mum about this sort of thing, but we've been getting a lot of email blasts recently about all sorts of suspicious activity. I won't go into much detail, but I do think there could possibly be something in the works. I'm not the type that gets caught up in conspiracies or gets really excitable, but with all the information presented to us, at the very least we need to be extra vigilant. If you see something, say something!

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