Indian Aviation Thread Part 105

Rishul93 · Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:48 pm

9W will place their code on AF flights to the following destinations. MRS/LYS/NCE/BHX/MAN/BRU/HAM/BCN/DUB/TLS/PRG/NCL/MAD, from CDG, connecting both ways.

Rishul93 · Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:54 pm

9W will place their code on AF flights to the following destinations. MRS/LYS/NCE/BHX/MAN/BRU/HAM/BCN/DUB/TLS/PRG/NCL/MAD, from CDG, connecting both ways.

dtw2hyd · Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:20 pm

Would Air Costa benefit from AAI's new low cost airport policy and being HQed in VGA would it also benefit from special category status like no excise duty on new aircraft... Thanks.

BLRAviation · Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:26 am

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 148):
So off the 8 LRs, 2 have already gone and 1 is cannibalised. Leaving 5. Off these 3 more go to EY. Any ideas which ones are going and what does AI intend to do with the remaining 2.

The answers are on Bangalore Aviation. VT-ALA through ALE. Look through the recent articles about delivery to Etihad. There are photos too of the LRs in the new EY livery. Unfortunately A.net rules prohibit me from posting the link. Sorry.

BLRAviation · Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:20 pm

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 148):
Off these 3 more go to EY.

VT-ALB is also delivered. So two more to go. ALD and ALE.

HAWK21M · Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:04 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 152):
Would Air Costa benefit from AAI's new low cost airport policy and being HQed in VGA would it also benefit from special category status like no excise duty on new aircraft... Thanks.

What about maintenance....whose handling this.

Is it true that Quikjet is restarting with FedEx and B757s BLR based.

[Edited 2014-04-03 03:17:26]

dtw2hyd · Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:46 pm

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 155):
What about maintenance....whose handling this.

May be Air Works for now, assuming they have some experience on Embraer Business Jets. They will have their own MRO at VGA by next year. P&W announced engine training center at HYD. If IAF/DRDO's ERJ 145 based AEW&CS is successful India may see more E-Jets.

I think Air Costa has every opportunity to succeed. With

- Low cost airport policy (reduced taxes on ATF and low landing fees)
- New state (there are estimates up to 30% of HYD traffic may get routed from VGA/VTZ to BLR and MAA)
- Special category state for 5 years(Excise duty and tax exemptions on new investments like Aircraft and MRO start up)
- Tax incentives for 10 years.

Or it could be just another Paramount.

BLRAviation · Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:50 am

Friends a quick question. How to we keep this "Indian Aviation" thread alive, if we are not posting? Any thoughts and suggestions?

lightsaber · Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:14 am

Quoting Rishul93 (Reply 150):
9W will place their code on AF flights to the following destinations.

That is an interesting development. Any KL code sharing? EY was rumored to be leaning towards Skyteam... this is in line...

Lightsaber

comorin · Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:06 am

Some friends of mine are planning an EWR-MAS-CCU-DEL-BOM-EWR trip, and I wonder if the 30-day unlimited India passes are still around or have they evolved into some new form? Any insights appreciated!

BLRAviation · Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:29 am

Quoting comorin (Reply 159):
wonder if the 30-day unlimited India passes are still around or have they evolved into some new form? Any insights appreciated!

Jet used to have a four coupon deal for a fixed price, but I do not think it is around any more. Considering you are planning just metro travel MAA-CCU-DEL-BOM, you could look at the local carriers.

comorin · Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:49 am

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 160):

Thank you kindly for your post, I will pass that along. (thumbsup}

btw, hope you are enjoying the wonderful hassle-free ride to KIA now that the AIrport Expressway is open!

Cheers.

dtw2hyd · Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:17 pm

Will there be any policy changes in Indian Aviation with new government?

Will they promote hubs (vs) current policy of curtailing hub growth? In one of the interviews Subramanya swamy raised this issue. Why did government ask private operators to build Delhi T3 and Mumbai T2, when there is need for a major hub in India.

What will the impact on Air Asia(India) and Tata SIA ventures? Will they survive?

What will be the impact on bilateral agreements? Particularly BJP being against allotting any rights to ME carriers.

What happens to unused bilateral capacity?

Also, entire Air Asia(India) deal was dependent on Malaysia's ability to oversee Air Asia's operations, like MRO and certification. With MH370 should India rethink its position as Malaysia didn't prove its ability.

VTORD · Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:20 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 162):

I wouldn't hold my breath on new government's ability or inclination. The BJP-NDA alliance has 3 former MoCA appointees with not a particularly stellar record - Rajiv Pratap Rudy, Shahanawaz Hussain and Ananth Kumar (who I believe was the MoCA when Tatas made their bid in 2000 with SIA before abruptly withdrawing).

BLRAviation, what's the mood in Bangalore South, Ananth Kumar or Nandan Nilekani?

To promote hub growth won't the GoI have to make major policy changes such as the transit visa?

freqflyer · Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:06 am

Quoting VTORD (Reply 163):
I wouldn't hold my breath on new government's ability or inclination. The BJP-NDA alliance has 3 former MoCA appointees with not a particularly stellar record - Rajiv Pratap Rudy, Shahanawaz Hussain and Ananth Kumar (who I believe was the MoCA when Tatas made their bid in 2000 with SIA before abruptly withdrawing).

On the other hand, Ratan Tatas equations with Modi are exceptional (if Modi does indeed become PM) . And Modi is said to cut through red tape as a matter of habit.

HAWK21M · Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:29 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 162):

Will there be any policy changes in Indian Aviation with new government?

Depends on the Govt......UPA/NDA.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 162):
What will the impact on Air Asia(India) and Tata SIA ventures? Will they survive?

I feel the NDA will be more proactive......TATA and Modi should do well...

Any news on the SIA A380 first flight at BOM...whats the STA.....cant miss the water cannon salute.....

dtw2hyd · Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:29 am

Quoting VTORD (Reply 163):
To promote hub growth won't the GoI have to make major policy changes such as the transit visa?

Can't they manage with sterile international transit area. Also there were news of visa-on-arrival for entire world (except 8 countries).

HAWK21M · Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:06 am

9W starting to cut down on staff......

Whats the STA of SIA A380 BOM 1st flight.

JOYA380B747 · Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:38 am

I was recently going through 9W Airbus a/c types being used on the international sector, and found out that only the four 333s operate on the BOM/DEL-BRU-EWR/YYZ sector. There's no other data on the 332s.

Have all of the 332s been leased out or are most of them just standing idly in BOM or DEL?

lightsaber · Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:13 pm

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 143):
I wonder if anyone has read this interview of Tim Clark of EK on the Indian aviation scene. Some hard hitting statements. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...-emirates/articleshow/31910765.cms

Very interesting. I would love to hear his input on China which has been even more restrictive for EK.

Quoting VTORD (Reply 163):
To promote hub growth won't the GoI have to make major policy changes such as the transit visa?

And aviation taxes...

Lightsaber

747megatop · Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:55 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 169):
Quoting VTORD (Reply 163):
To promote hub growth won't the GoI have to make major policy changes such as the transit visa?

And aviation taxes...

The potential fixes, solutions and strategies to put Indian airports on a hub growth path have been dicussed at length on a.net. I had also written numerous posts including potential route structures. In fact MOCA has a strategy at length on paper about this - http://civilaviation.gov.in/cs/group...nts/newsandupdates/moca_000783.pdf
The thing is that all this remains on paper and probably will continue to remain on paper.

BLRAviation · Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:44 pm

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 168):
Have all of the 332s been leased out or are most of them just standing idly in BOM or DEL?

Yes they have. Jet lost a boatload of cash with the aircraft just sitting on the ground in DEL. I took this photo during an airside at DEL http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7585902

JOYA380B747 · Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:42 am

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 171):

That almost seems like a terminal at peak hour (minus the ground vehicles).

What will Jet do with the leased-to-TK 77Ws that will come back to the parent airline this year (if my knowledge is right)?? Park them here??

karan69 · Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:12 pm

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 172):

Will probably be leased to EY to start a second daily ORD flight

Karan

Heavierthanair · Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:41 am

G'day

http://atwonline.com/airframes/air-india-plans-expand-a320-fleet

Air India is looking for dry lease bids for a mix of up to 14 used and new CFM powered A 320's. Presumably to replace some of their oldest birds which must be hard to keep in flying condition.

Aren't they struggling to keep much newer birds flying?

Anyway there seems to be some progress in updating the fleet, at a rather slow pace though

Cheers

Peter

HAWK21M · Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:38 am

Whats the scheduled launch date of Air asiaindia and TATA/SIA JV

DIJKKIJK · Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:01 am

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 171):
Yes they have. Jet lost a boatload of cash with the aircraft just sitting on the ground in DEL. I took this photo during an airside at DEL http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7585902

Why don't they sell those aircraft, instead of keeping them on the ground and losing money?

HAWK21M · Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:56 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 176):

Why don't they sell those aircraft, instead of keeping them on the ground and losing money?

These are flying Aircraft, arn't they.....

[Edited 2014-04-28 02:02:29]

JOYA380B747 · Sat May 03, 2014 4:02 pm

I was going through the current 9W fleet status -

After the return of two 77Ws from TK, they now have 8 active trip 7s.

But currently there are only 5 daily flights in which they are used, viz. BOM-LHR X2, BOM-HKG, DEL-LHR, DEL-HKG. Which requires, if I'm not mistaken, 5 77Ws.

So what are the other 3 doing? Or is my analysis incorrect?

[Edited 2014-05-03 09:03:35]

VTORD · Sat May 03, 2014 8:28 pm

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 178):
So what are the other 3 doing? Or is my analysis incorrect?

I was looking for tickets in the summer / fall and TK website shows IST-BOM TK720/721 is "Operated by 9W for Turkish Airlines". So that should account for 1 of them?

lightsaber · Sun May 04, 2014 9:41 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 170):
The thing is that all this remains on paper and probably will continue to remain on paper.

Thank you for that report. Some is clear, some is self contradictory (reduce taxes and then much later on note must maintain (implied increase) service taxes...).

Some I 100% agree with... e.g., the expansion for Chennai, Kolkata, Ahmedabad, and Trivandrum on pg. 27. In fact, I didn't find anything to object to on that page.

But as far as a comprehensive Indian strategy... that document fell short. In fact, the plans to increase AIs market share show the GoI has completely lost touch with what is important. Oh, a resurgent AI wouldn't be a bad thing, but that should not be the government's goal. It should be promoting air Travel in India. e..g, persuade AirAsia to fund a hub at MAA.

We'll still have threads here on a.net as I found enough contradictions in that document that it is obvious India will not develop a international hub on a scale to be competitive. The reality is the lack of a competitive international to international connection hub in India is crippling FDI into India.

LIghtsaber

dtw2hyd · Wed May 07, 2014 2:13 pm

Indian media outlet NDTV is reporting(app alert) AirAsia India got AOP.

BLRAviation · Thu May 08, 2014 3:41 am

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 181):
Indian media outlet NDTV is reporting(app alert) AirAsia India got AOP.

AirAsia India has got the AOP. However I think Tony and team and waiting for the election results. The BJP looks set to win and Swamy will be powerful, even may be a minister. They will have to placate him first.

dtw2hyd · Thu May 08, 2014 12:10 pm

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 182):
AirAsia India has got the AOP. However I think Tony and team and waiting for the election results. The BJP looks set to win and Swamy will be powerful, even may be a minister. They will have to placate him first.

Thank You. It would be interesting to see future developments. Western Think-tanks expect BJP to reverse lot of decisions made by previous administration. They also say Modi has close relationship with China, Japan and South Korea than West. Not sure about ME.

So, Hubs may be back in and ME3 may be out(or at least curtailed). I could see 9W developing BOM as its hub.

Also, What will be the impact on SpiceJet with AirAsia India entry?

JOYA380B747 · Fri May 09, 2014 8:50 am

Since the 2014 General elections are almost at its end, I was hoping if someone would enlighten us about what we can expect as changes to Indian aviation (w.r.t rights to foreign airlines, domestic airlines(excl-Air India), Air India and continuous cash infusion, privatization of airports, Navi Mumbai airport, other new airports, etc) assuming the BJP is coming into power on May the 16th.

Thank you.

HAWK21M · Fri May 09, 2014 9:39 am

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 182):

AirAsia India has got the AOP. However I think Tony and team and waiting for the election results. The BJP looks set to win and Swamy will be powerful, even may be a minister. They will have to placate him first.

All the more need to startflying before the new govt is in place

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 184):

I dont think there would be much change but the NDA seems pro industry.

HAWK21M · Wed May 14, 2014 11:24 am

Soon we'll know who the new MOCA is.......

golfradio · Wed May 14, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting hawk21m (Reply 186):

Rudy will probably come back.

CDG · Wed May 14, 2014 6:09 pm

Welcome to Paris CDG 9W! Here's the water salute, hope they will do well and be here for a long time.

VTORD · Thu May 15, 2014 1:04 am

Quoting golfradio (Reply 187):
Rudy will probably come back.

Most likely possibility.

One of the areas that may see a positive push is the airport privatization. Privatization for LKO, GAU, AMD, MAA, CCU and JAI was put on hold when election code of conduct kicked in. AMD, JAI & LKO are all home ground for the expected single major party so they will want to consolidate that. They will need to forge alliances in Assam (GAU) and Tamil Nadu (MAA) to complete the numbers in Parliament. So IMO this will move in a positive direction.

I am skeptical of the progress on the 2nd airport in BOM. After seemingly un-ending hold ups by two successive environment ministries, looks like there is a price issue + if it's agricultural land involved (not sure of this), then the expected Prime Minister is already under the scanner for such largesse in his home state. I doubt they will risk such an issue in the first year or two. The opposition will have a field day.

Nimish · Thu May 15, 2014 5:46 am

Quoting CDG" class="quote" target="_blank">CDG (Reply 188):
Welcome to Paris CDG 9W!

Thanks for posting the picture - here's hoping 9W manages to make money on this route.

kingfisherfly · Thu May 15, 2014 8:21 am

Another windshield crack incident for AI B787 VT-ANK at FRA. Looks like the same aircraft suffered the same issue at MEL as well. The article quotes the reason is "due to ingress of water on the electronics of shade controller". If that is the case, then it is bit worrying news from Boeing.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...ks-midair/articleshow/35132662.cms

BLRAviation · Thu May 15, 2014 12:10 pm

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 184):
Since the 2014 General elections are almost at its end, I was hoping if someone would enlighten us about what we can expect as changes to Indian aviation (w.r.t rights to foreign airlines, domestic airlines(excl-Air India), Air India and continuous cash infusion, privatization of airports, Navi Mumbai airport, other new airports, etc) assuming the BJP is coming into power on May the 16th.

Nothing radical right now. Air travel is still seen as the luxurious domain of the privileged few. The only one decision that is really pending is the 5 year 20 aircraft rule to operate internationally. All existing carriers with the exception of AirAsia India the soon to be formed Tata-SIA airline qualify. So thanks to the clout of the Tatas expect that rule to be removed soon.

The rumour mill has it that Ratan Tata has it out for Naresh Goyal and is step by step stripping him. While unlikely, I would not be surprised that by 2016, Etihad will own 49% and show NG the door.

CDG · Thu May 15, 2014 10:24 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 190):

My pleasure!

The France - India traffic is mostly AF & EK i hope this codesharing of 23 cities will bring some balance to the market.

It is very healthy to have a new Indian Airline in Paris For CDG- BOM.

Cheers from Paris

kingfisherfly · Fri May 16, 2014 8:45 am

With Modi set to become the new Prime Minister of India, any guess on who would be the next aviation minister ??

What things would you think is necessary from the new management that will change the face of dedt laden Indian Aviation scene in particular AI which runs of common man's money ?

747megatop · Fri May 16, 2014 5:24 pm

Quoting CDG" class="quote" target="_blank">CDG (Reply 188):
and be here for a long time.

Indian carriers are notorious for guest appearances at locations around the world i guess. Barring LHR,JFK,EWR they have never put in a consistent appearance in North America or Europe. They have come and gone like in LAX and SFO. So, i really wonder how long they will sustain BOM-CDG without feeds on either end. Routes like BOM-AUH-CDG or BLR-AUH-SFO would have made more sense given their partnership with EY.

JOYA380B747 · Fri May 16, 2014 7:11 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 195):
They have come and gone like in LAX and SFO. So, i really wonder how long they will sustain BOM-CDG without feeds on either end.

One way 9W would sustain this quite well would be to start Kangaroo flights sooner than later. If DEL is getting its share of traffic from Australia via AI, BOM can do good with a 9W service, carefully matching timings to this CDG service at the same time.

747megatop · Sat May 17, 2014 9:12 pm

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 196):
One way 9W would sustain this quite well would be to start Kangaroo flights sooner than later. If DEL is getting its share of traffic from Australia via AI, BOM can do good with a 9W service, carefully matching timings to this CDG service at the same time.

BOM has severe capacity constraints. Can't operate a hub with that. BOM is prone to delays because of the capacity issues and nobody would want to connect through a delay prone airport.

lightsaber · Sun May 18, 2014 1:11 am

Quoting kingfisherfly (Reply 194):
With Modi set to become the new Prime Minister of India, any guess on who would be the next aviation minister ??

Serious question, how is the Modi election likely to impact indian aviation other than what was noted before:

Quoting freqflyer (Reply 164):
On the other hand, Ratan Tatas equations with Modi are exceptional (if Modi does indeed become PM) . And Modi is said to cut through red tape as a matter of habit.

I hope the process of launching new flights in India is simplified and becomes more transparent. This could be quite the stepping off point for India aviation.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 196):
One way 9W would sustain this quite well would be to start Kangaroo flights sooner than later.

The issue is a 9W 'Kangaroo flight' would compete with an EY Kangaroo flight. For the time being, the hub at AUH is far more effective for 9W than any of its Indian hubs. So I think this is unlikely. However, the election could change quite a bit in Indian aviation and we could look back in two years and marvel at the changes.

Or... it could be the old pattern were we wonder why its taking so long. I'm going to be cautiously optimistic for a bit.

Lightsaber

HAWK21M · Sun May 18, 2014 8:46 am

The last B732 freighter retires on 20th morning .....VT-BDH......that ends the B732 journey in INDIA.
The water cannon salute is a befitting honour planned.

Rudy likely to be the next MOCA as he is part of the industry.

Modi is likely to be pro industry.

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