Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 97):

Thanks for your response. B6 with an E190 will be a less formidable competitor than with the 320. There will most certainly be baggage problems and some might prefer the 738 over the e-190. Any case BW will defeinitely benefit frrom its more liberal baggage policies which B6 will not be able to offer.

It is possible that some FLL originating/destined passengers who refuse to use BW (for what ever reason, using AA instead) might shift to B6.


I am quite sure that BW will do fine on the JFK and that B6 will be a plus as passengers will feel that they have choice. It will get BW on their toes. FINALLY they will have to upgrade their JFK ground operations, even if it means replacing their subcontractors. But the market is large and there is that quota of people in the NYC area who are "Trini to d bone," and will always use the national carrier, once it provides decent fares and service.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 99):

Unless 2011/13 are very different from prior years T&T tourism arrival stats will suggest that the growth was between 1995 and 2008, and has been fairly flat since. With only negligable growth, out of the USA, and with Canada and the UK down. I know that the UK situation impacts TAB more than POS.

I cant imagine that travel to the USA by T&T citizens has increased much since 2008 as visas have become more expensive and scrutiny more intense, and the economy has been stagnant in recent years. The VFR market out of JFK is definitely impacted by the Great Recession as the Caribbean and other lower middle class communities have suffered severe set backs.


Yes I am aware that a decision was made not to wet lease the 767 in summer 2013 for the 500/501, so even though DLs daily 757 service GEO JFK was not operating, as it was in prior summers, BW offered FEWER seats than it did in prior years. The result was that passengers traveling JFK POS/GEO had to pay very high airfares last summer as there was a severe shortage of seats.

With TS back in the market and B6 arriving in time for carnival 2014 will be very different, and fares iwll return to normal. I consider this to be a good thing as passengers and the travel industry will stop seeing BW as being abusive.

Let us hope that BW is able to cut costs without cutting service standards, are creating a severely demoralized crew who will take it out on the passengers.

BW will hold its own I am certain against Jetblue once a good management team is in place

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 98): Quoting A388 (Reply 92): By the way guys, I don't think it was mentioned here yet and it surprises me a bit but the FIFA Worldcup/Coca Cola MD80 will or should be in POS today. And in BZE next weekend!

Yes, I took a few nice photos of the aircraft here in CUR this morning. I even got the opportunity to go inside and take some pictures of the cabin. A unique experience!!!

Quoting BW424 (Reply 99): Quoting A388 (Reply 91): I really wish Caribbean Airlines well as they once were the most profitable and well-run airlines in the Caribbean back in 2007. They were an airline that was admired at the time in my opinion so I really hope they will bounce back and become that efficient airline they once were in 2007 and I say this with Caribbean Airlines keeping those widebody aircraft You got this very right. Since it is long gone now, I can say that the Bahamian Government did approach BW in late 2009/early 2010 to look at restructuring UP into a CAL subsidiary. I believe the Lok Jack board at that time said no (for the time being) because they had their hands full with jet fleet renewal plans and the JM acquisition.

Yes, I hope Caribbean Airlines will return to its glory days just as in 2007 

A388

Hey A388 some guys in POS took some photos of the World cup aircraft

Thanks for the photos Caribbean484!!! I took a few nice photos as well. You can see the first batch on the planepictures site.


I thought I'd share this old photo with you guys as it is of an aircraft and airline that no longer fly:



View Large View Medium

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography



Memories, memories, memories 

A388

Heads up for anyone in BGI, your getting not 1, but 2 787s. Both G-TUID ( BY116, MAN-BGI) and G-TUIA (BY34, LGW-BGI) are currently enroute

FIRST THOMSON 787 DREAMLINER TOUCHES DOWN AT BRIDGETOWN, BARBADOS

8th November, 2013: Thomson Airways today celebrates the arrival of its first 787 Dreamliner flight, it’s most popular aircraft, in to Bridgetown, Barbados.

Thomson Airways operated flight TOM034 on this revolutionary new aircraft, from the UK’s London Gatwick Airport. It departed at 09:50 (GMT) with (NUMBER) customers on board and touched down in here in Barbados for the first time (NUMBER) hours later.

The 787 Dreamliner has revolutionised air travel, leaving holidaymakers more relaxed and refreshed after a long flight than ever before. The plane offers comfort and wellbeing features on-board which reduce the effects of jet-lag and turbulence meaning holidays get off to an even better start. As well as being more comfortable, it’s also more environmentally friendly than similar-sized aircraft using approximately 20% less fuel.

Customer Satisfaction Questionnaires (CSQ), which are collected on the return journey of a customer’s holiday to gather feedback on the flight and holiday experience, show that 97% of all respondents rated their experience on board the Thomson Dreamliner as good or excellent, and a massive 99% would recommend the airline after travelling on the new plane.

The Thomson 787 Dreamliner carries 291 passengers. Premium Club seats 47 in a 2-3-2 configuration, with a 38” pitch, and Economy Club seats 244 in a 3-3-3 configuration, with an industry leading 33” or 34” pitch.

Today’s flight was operated by Captain Wayne Bayley, who said: “I am thrilled to have been asked to operate today’s flight into Barbados. The island means a lot to me, as my family is from here, so it is an honour to bring the first Thomson 787 Dreamliner here today.”

Thomson Airways will take delivery of eight Boeing 787 Dreamliners in total up to May 2015.

Quoting windian425 (Reply 106):

Excellent, hope we can get some pics from BGI of these aircraft.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 105): Heads up for anyone in BGI, your getting not 1, but 2 787s. Both G-TUID ( BY116, MAN-BGI) and G-TUIA (BY34, LGW-BGI) are currently enroute

I wish I was in BGI now and in December when B6 will start A321 service to BGI so we would have the BY 787 and the B6 321 in BGI. Great!!! Or is this BY 787 of today a one-off thing? I assume it isn't...

A388

Quoting A388 (Reply 108): I wish I was in BGI now and in December when B6 will start A321 service to BGI so we would have the BY 787 and the B6 321 in BGI. Great!!! Or is this BY 787 of today a one-off thing? I assume it isn't...

BY will operate the 787's every weekend from now until April 2014. Initially x2 on Fridays x1 on Saturdays another x2 will operate on Sundays from December.

Quoting windian425 (Reply 106): FIRST THOMSON 787 DREAMLINER TOUCHES DOWN AT BRIDGETOWN, BARBADOS

Awesome developments for BGI. BGI really seems to be the island of exclusivity when it comes to seeing what's hot and trending in aviation. They received the B787 and B747-8 for Boeing's humidity testing, now BY's scheduled multiple 787 services on select days and as A388 mentioned, B6's very very exclusive A321s.


In other news

"Howai wants CAL changes
...urges board to tweak restructuring"

:Finance Minister Larry Howai has sent the Caribbean Airlines board of directors back to the drawing board to tweak some of their propositions on how to restructure the debt-riddled State enterprise and make it commercially viable.
“In the proposal they gave me I thought there were further changes, for example, there were some routes that were kept, (because the board assumed) I would want to keep them. The point is I want them to be commercially viable, so if they can take out these routes and (we can) see what the implications are from an economic and commercial perspective,” he said."

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/busin...i-wants-CAL-changes-231224541.html


I always had immense respect for this guy since his FCB days, however, it's growing more and more with his recent dealings on the CAL issue. Seems as though the board may be trying to balance saving political face and achieving financial viability at BW, which by all apparent indications, Howai seems a bit dissatisfied.

Mentioning "some routes that were kept, (because the board assumed) I would want to keep them" blatantly indicates that Howai may want a return to the Lok Jack model...no political routes, just market-driven ones........I cannot identify any route besides LGW that he may want axed for improved financial viability. The only other route may be POS-TAB-JFK, but that may be kept to appease TAB's tourism officials, especially since it doesn't present itself as a financial drain to BW and it's usually filled with POS based pax anyway. One other route may be the KIN-MBJ shuttle service. That was never part of the original route structure Lok Jack wanted to in BW's KIN base. In a nutshell, I strongly believe that Howai is alluding to the board possibly keeping the LGW route against the true business interest of the company.

[Edited 2013-11-10 12:55:56]

Video of both BY 787s arriving into BGI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A_t2XFKZd8

Excellent video BW424!!! Does anyone here know if BY is planning to fly to AUA using the 787? Would be great!!!

Cheers,

A388

Quoting BW424 (Reply 110):

Is LGW still a loss maker for BW?

Quoting guyanam (Reply 113): Is LGW still a loss maker for BW?

Good question Guyanam. The load factor has been averaging approximately 70-80%. Apart from a few delays recently, they've managed to sustain the route with just one aircraft over the last couple months. In that time, they've also secured ETOPS 138 which allowed as low as 7:55 flight time POS-LGW. The lower fuel consumption could contribute to some effective savings. The 767 fleet should be back to two airplanes within a week, in time for a busy Christmas season.

Quoting A388 (Reply 112): Excellent video BW424!!!

I'm glad you liked it! The BGI enthusiasts did a great job in capturing the moments.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 113): Is LGW still a loss maker for BW?

Yes it is........

Quoting BW424 (Reply 115): Quoting guyanam (Reply 113): Is LGW still a loss maker for BW? Yes it is........

Generally a new route needs 3 to 5 years (but in most cases 5 years) to become self sustaining so Caribbean Airlines still has a lot of time to make the route work for them. The only question is whether they have the money available to cover the cost/loss of the route during its climd towards self sustainability.

A388

Quoting guyanam (Reply 113): Is LGW still a loss maker for BW?

Quoting A388 (Reply 116): Generally a new route needs 3 to 5 years (but in most cases 5 years) to become self sustaining so Caribbean Airlines still has a lot of time to make the route work for them. The only question is whether they have the money available to cover the cost/loss of the route during its climd towards self sustainability.

Yes it is losing money because as Inbound noted the airline has ETOPS 120mins plus 15% extension for the time being. To efficiently run Transatlantic CAL needs 180mins and will not be getting that until next year. So in effect the airline is spending more money on fuel on this route than it should because it routes the flight all the way up to ANU straight further away from the Azores.

Plus the airline also has 2 a/cs for this operation when they have been recommended to take on a third, thereby the airline, if taking this, will have to return a 737 or expand more South Ward.

But as noted the airline has generated US$20m this year so far so they do not have a cash flow problem and the board has said they are in negotiation for US$100m cash from some of their assets. Plus the Government is giving them TT$450m to cover debt caused by operational problems over the last 3 years.

On another note CAL has applied to the INAC for the 737 to run daily services to CCS.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 117): On another note CAL has applied to the INAC for the 737 to run daily services to CCS.

That's excellent news- hopefully it gets approved.
I flew AA POS-MIA-POS on the 9th-10th November and there were 6 Venezuelan businessmen- one who was sitting next to me. He said they fly to POS to do business for a day or two and then fly onto Miami. POS is becoming more than just a transit stop for Venezuelans! There used to be a lot of lower-yielding traffic in the form of Students and Shoppers, glad to see this route mature to include VFR and Business traffic.
I hope the ATR can be deployed on another Veneuzuelan/ South American Route. Would love to see that freed-up ATR run a POS-OGL 4x and a POS-MAR 3x.

AA1818

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 117): Yes it is losing money because as Inbound noted the airline has ETOPS 120mins plus 15% extension for the time being. To efficiently run Transatlantic CAL needs 180mins and will not be getting that until next year. So in effect the airline is spending more money on fuel on this route than it should because it routes the flight all the way up to ANU straight further away from the Azores.

Correct 484. ETOPS 180mins can only be acquired after a minimum of one year of operating as ETOPS 120mins. The fact that ETOPS 138mins has been granted, is a good sign for the eventual approval of 180 in possibly January '14.
As a matter of fact, crews, engineering etc. have recently been trained and certified for 180 in anticipation.

I forgot to mention that cargo has also been performing quite well on this route.

A388, you are also correct as the route was forecast to break even after 3 years.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 118): I hope the ATR can be deployed on another Veneuzuelan/ South American Route. Would love to see that freed-up ATR run a POS-OGL 4x and a POS-MAR 3x.

IMO, OGL, MAR and VLN are long overdue as solid opportunities for high-yielding growth. As for POS as a hub, yes, more and more South Americans are transiting through POS, however, infrastructure as we all know, is severely lacking in order to fully capitalize on the growing in-transit segment. Government policy must also play an integral role in buttressing this forever talked about hub potential.

Quoting A388 (Reply 116): Generally a new route needs 3 to 5 years (but in most cases 5 years) to become self sustaining so Caribbean Airlines still has a lot of time to make the route work for them. The only question is whether they have the money available to cover the cost/loss of the route during its climd towards self sustainability.

Yes, that is a widely understood fact for routes with immense growth potential over the long-term. LGW is not one of them. My apologies to everyone for being the sour lemon, but LGW was never started with any strategic or sustained growth foreseen. It was purely a political route that was started at all possible expense to the airline and most local folks still do not realize the magnitude of the negative effect this ill-concieved initiative had on the carrier. Here is what this LGW route caused;

It indirectly caused BW's impressive cash balance to be wiped out (failure to secure long-term financing for ATRs).
Created a crap-load of debt to what was a debt-free airline (acquiring appropriate a/c, wet-leasing and starting the route).
Severely diverted attention away from properly integrating KIN ops and treating with various teething operational issues. Caused diplomatic relations between POS and KIN to be strained as a result of the board and GORTT's very low-class style governance.

All this because some "brilliant" board directors decided to say "f**k everything else, this LGW route has to start no matter what the expense and no matter who we have to fire". I like to refer to what occurred has a serious case of the "big plane" syndrome.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 117): thereby the airline, if taking this, will have to return a 737 or expand more South Ward.

Key phrase here being "if taking this"..........with Howai sending the interim BoD back to tweak some things, this option may very well be dead. Time will tell.

Quoting Inbound (Reply 119): I forgot to mention that cargo has also been performing quite well on this route.

Quoting Inbound (Reply 114): In that time, they've also secured ETOPS 138 which allowed as low as 7:55 flight time POS-LGW.

These small victories in efficiency definitely help to alleviate the losses being sustained, but it will certainly not justify the route to be kept unless there is a proven forecast of expected sustained profitability and GROWTH in traffic and yield over the medium to long term. However, it is great to know that BW is doing everything possible to try and make the route as efficient as possible.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 120): infrastructure as we all know, is severely lacking

I disagree..the infrastructure is there...it just needs to be put to better use.
Security checkpoints need to be more efficient for the morning rush, immigration and customs can be improved- more officers are all that is needed. Apart from those changes, transit rules need to be improved but that doesn't really require any significant change...passengers transiting could clear immigration and then they're in duty free and can go back up the escalator to the departure lounge. They already have a plan to move domestic departures to a whole new terminal to the east of the existing structure. Expanded car park is also in train, as is a new hotel- the Radisson.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 120): with Howai sending the interim BoD back to tweak some things, this option may very well be dead.

Howai's move is clear. BW must be a commercially viable entity. The interim board kept certain loss-making routes that Howai is now saying go back and re-look, nothing is beyond the realm of the cuts.

AA1818

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 121): I disagree..the infrastructure is there...it just needs to be put to better use. Security checkpoints need to be more efficient for the morning rush, immigration and customs can be improved- more officers are all that is needed. Apart from those changes, transit rules need to be improved but that doesn't really require any significant change...passengers transiting could clear immigration and then they're in duty free and can go back up the escalator to the departure lounge. They already have a plan to move domestic departures to a whole new terminal to the east of the existing structure. Expanded car park is also in train, as is a new hotel- the Radisson.

We can agree to disagree I guess. What you have suggested are ways in which airport processes and available resources (as limited as they may be) can be improved to do its best at handling in-transit traffic, however, the infrastructure is still severely lacking to really capitalize on this. I've been regularly told; the persons that designed this POS terminal didn't envision POS as an in-transit hub.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 121): Howai's move is clear. BW must be a commercially viable entity. The interim board kept certain loss-making routes that Howai is now saying go back and re-look, nothing is beyond the realm of the cuts.

Did I suggest otherwise??? I'm sorry if I did.

Quoting Inbound (Reply 114):

My understanding was that the Lok Jack team planned to start LGW. Just not as soon as the new management team did. If they drop LGW then they might as well scratch any plans to resume that service as they will loose all credibility in the market. If LGW is a money bleeder now I cannot imagine a future scenario when it wouldnt be, as this is clearly not a growth route. One thing is for sure, and that is that there is a certain level of GUARANTEED trafiic between LGW and POS, with potential for onward connections to GEO and CCS. It is an ESTABLISHED route, and not a speculative one as some of those suggested are.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 120):

While I agree with you that LGW is not a growth route I am curious to hear from you as to which routes are.

I am skeptical about Venezuela, given restrictions on accessing revenues generating in that country for general operational use. I have noted that, despite the heavy traffic between Venezuela and CUR, Insel has not replaced the capacity lost due to the demise of DAE. So why are some so sure that Venezuela (other than the existing and under served CCS route, and points in eastern Venezuela) offers growth.

POS is too far east to become a major transit hub for most of Venezuela. Indeed what I noted with the example given is that the 6 Venezuelan business men flew BW to POS, but continued on to MIA on AA. They could have easily done so on BW, but didnt. Is BW really capable of increasing brand loyalty into that very AA dominated market?

Roputes to points south of POS are speculative. If LGW is "wrong" I do not see how GRU, BUE or other points will not also be. given that there is little O&D traffic and the notion that people will use POS as a hub is very speculative. One cannot build a hub based on transfering a mere 6 passengers.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 121):

Until POS becomes as easy to intransit as PTY is POS is not competitive. BW and the T&T govt needs to fix this if they want to build a major hub there. The niggest inransit users, Guyanese, have had very negative experiences there.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 122): Did I suggest otherwise??? I'm sorry if I did.

No, no...I was just reiterating the sentiment!  

Quoting BW424 (Reply 122): We can agree to disagree I guess. What you have suggested are ways in which airport processes and available resources (as limited as they may be) can be improved to do its best at handling in-transit traffic, however, the infrastructure is still severely lacking to really capitalize on this. I've been regularly told; the persons that designed this POS terminal didn't envision POS as an in-transit hub.

Where specifically so you see the actual infrastructure lacking- i'm interested, perhaps there are issues i'm missing. Otherwise we have to agree to disagree. hehe

AA1818

Quoting BW424 (Reply 115): Quoting guyanam (Reply 113):Is LGW still a loss maker for BW? Yes it is........

I disagree with BW424 in this case. We all agree that the way the LGW route was not started under the best circumstances. But now that the money was spent on obtaining the aircraft and the ETOPS certificates, they should look at how they can operate this route profitably instead of giving it up.

I may be biased living in London, but I am sure there is potential for growth on this route. BA pretended not to be interested in serving POS back in 2007 when they started route with 3 weekly flights, but by 2012 they were operating the route daily. (With the arrival of BW on the route they have since reduced their frequency to 4 x a week.)

A 80% load factor shows that there must be demand, althouth the load factor alone does not say anything about the yield and profit. BW will have to try to attract the business passengers who are mostly flying BA at the moment. At the moment BW's London flights only serve POS and GEO, but once better connections out of POS are available to places like GND, SVD, KIN, CCS etc demand for this flight could a lot higher.

It will be interesting to see how much the loss (if any) on the LGW route will be in 2014 once BW has fully established itself in the UK market and the ETOPS 180' is in place. I doubt that the figure will be any higher than the amount of money the GORTT spends on subsidies for BA, Virgin and Monarch to fly to TAB.

I agree that the board and especially the former chairman have made lots of mistake managing BW, but I do not believe that the problems at the KIN base can be blamed on the opening of the LGW route.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 122): Quoting AA1818 (Reply 121):I disagree..the infrastructure is there...it just needs to be put to better use. Security checkpoints need to be more efficient for the morning rush, immigration and customs can be improved- more officers are all that is needed. Apart from those changes, transit rules need to be improved but that doesn't really require any significant change...passengers transiting could clear immigration and then they're in duty free and can go back up the escalator to the departure lounge. They already have a plan to move domestic departures to a whole new terminal to the east of the existing structure. Expanded car park is also in train, as is a new hotel- the Radisson. We can agree to disagree I guess. What you have suggested are ways in which airport processes and available resources (as limited as they may be) can be improved to do its best at handling in-transit traffic, however, the infrastructure is still severely lacking to really capitalize on this. I've been regularly told; the persons that designed this POS terminal didn't envision POS as an in-transit hub.

I think the immigration booths should be moved to where the music shop is, just before you get to the baggage claim area. This would allow in-transit passengers to visit the duty free shops and let them go to their departure gate in their own time, rather than having to queue up to use only 1 lift. The airport could profit from more money spent in the shops, while at the same time offering more convenience. This new Piarco airport was only built a few years ago and not only is it not suitable at handling in-transit passengers, the check-in and arrivals areas are already too small.

BW985

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125):

My point exactly about LGW. True the route was started before it should have been, and detrected attention, especially from KIN, and incurred heavy losses. But that money has already been spent and BW already has become a presence in the market.

Now if the route is unprofitable, and there is nothing that can be done about it...basically admitting that BW cannot compete with BA, despite running nonstop service, then cut it. Biut do so knowing that there will be no future point when this route can be re-started.

And in my opinion if BW cannot compete on LGW, which is an established route, then they have no business doing anything other than remaining on the MIA/FLL/MCO/JFK/YYZ routes, and improving connectivity between CCS and other parts of its network. If LGW cant cut it, then no non traditional route will offer more opportunities. Starting new long distance Latin routes, hoping that BW will get intransit business, seems to make a lot less sense than building its market share on the LGW.

New routes to eastern Venezuela should be explored. POS is nearby and might be more convenient than CCS. Indeed I see no reason why T&T doesnt exploit its proximity in a variety of arenas, given how remote and disorganized the CCS based govt is. Further the routes are low risk as they are short distance and, if they get 737 service to POS, the ATR can be re routed there. Only the informal ferry operators will suffer.

POS is a disaster for massive numbers of intransits. Especially when compared to PTY, which is much favored by latin travelers. Thats a fact based upon customer complaints. If Guyanes, who are minimally different from TRinis, have problems at POS, imagine Brazilians and Argentines rushing to make a connection. BW is not going to get the premium end of the market, as they are loyal to the various freqent flyer programs. So those who they do get will be less fluent in English, and as you know, not too many airport personnel at POS speak Spanish or Portuguese well.

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125): I disagree with BW424 in this case. We all agree that the way the LGW route was not started under the best circumstances. But now that the money was spent on obtaining the aircraft and the ETOPS certificates, they should look at how they can operate this route profitably instead of giving it up.

BW424 has a lot of good points, but the problem now is that the route already has sunken costs associated with it so it is in the best interest of CAL to make this route operationally viable. The market between the UK and POS has seen 20% growth over the last 3 years due to the energy industry.
We all know that CAL made a mess out of the whole thing and has paid for it dearly last year since 50% of the loses incurred came from its transatlantic operations, which is wet leasing and ETOPS certifications.

As I mentioned the reason the route is losing money is the routing the airline is taking right now to a more Northerly routing adding an hour more of flying thus more fuel burn.

Load factors are not an issue since the airline is averaging 81% pax for the year thus far, the problem I see is that Howai telling the board to find new efficiencies to improve the route and the situation of the 3 fleet type at CAL. Having two widebodies just for transatlantic operations is very inefficient, but the 767 is much better than the 777 that Nicolas was talking about, or the A340 BWIA had.

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125): I agree that the board and especially the former chairman have made lots of mistake managing BW, but I do not believe that the problems at the KIN base can be blamed on the opening of the LGW route.

  

Quoting guyanam (Reply 123): POS is too far east to become a major transit hub for most of Venezuela. Indeed what I noted with the example given is that the 6 Venezuelan business men flew BW to POS, but continued on to MIA on AA. They could have easily done so on BW, but didnt. Is BW really capable of increasing brand loyalty into that very AA dominated market?

That is a point but also PTY is to far west also from Venezuela. Venezuela is in the nothern center of South American, so POS and PTY are at its extremes. The reason for going larger is because Venezuelans are finding a cheaper alternative to fly to the US and Trinidad is seen as another alternative.

We have to also consider that the US airlines are restricted in adding any capacity in Venezuela so CAL has an opportunity, Like COPA to take more pax. The problem is the INAC and their policies that are hurting airlines with not releasing revenues to the carriers in an ample time frame.

Flew JFK-GEO BW529 on 11/11 and I am happy to say the IFE was updated with the current movies in Caribbean Beat (however they showed the northbound movie). There were no improvements to the food though. Service was good, but the a/c was not full, so not quite as demanding on the FA's as my last flight. Equipment was 763 9Y-LGW. When we arrived in GEO we landed 20 minutes after the captain told us, he was circling quite a bit, didn't know if it was the weather as it was overcast, but he never told us why.

GUYAIR707

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 127): That is a point but also PTY is to far west also from Venezuela. Venezuela is in the nothern center of South American, so POS and PTY are at its extremes. The reason for going larger is because Venezuelans are finding a cheaper alternative to fly to the US and Trinidad is seen as another alternative.

We must not compare apples with pears here. The reason Venezuelans and many other Latin people chose PTY/CM is because they cover South America in its entirety quite well. It's not just the U.S./North America. Trinidad is also different compared to PTY as it barely covers the U.S. compared to PTY. Another thing is the by using Trinidad as a transfer point to the U.S. you actually travel backwards first and then go to the U.S. In the case of PTY you don't travel that much "out of the way" from Venezuela to the U.S. as PTY is still closer to the U.S. compared to Trinidad.

A388

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 127):

Just a quick correction. INAC is the civil aviation authority. CADIVI is the government department responsible for foreign currency distribution.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 127):

And my biggest concern is with INAC/CADIVI. This is why I am skeptical about Venezuela. BW cannot afford to ahve cash tied up in Venezuela. I am not sure if they can get a decent market share on inbound traffic, where this isnt a problem.

Quoting A388 (Reply 129):

My point exactly. With its better coverage of the USA (both on its ownm and via UA) and South America PTY will always out compete POS. BW needs to get its house in oredr before they begin any speculative routes to South America (that is other than CCS/GEO/PBM/Eastern Venezuela).

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 128):

Did you fly business class?

For long distance flights which would be better to be based at POS or TAB - B777200ER , A330-200 or 767-300

Quoting guyanam (Reply 131):

Yes I did. Service was good, FA's were attentive.

I heard they started the lengthening of the runway at GEO but no evidence of that.

GUYAIR707

So if POS isn't a transfer-friendly airport for Venezuelans and if BW is allowed to fly POS-CCS-KIN, then BW could well take passengers from Venezuela to KIN and have them connect to/from BW U.S-Jamaica flights @ KIN.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 131): And my biggest concern is with INAC/CADIVI. This is why I am sceptical about Venezuela. BW cannot afford to have cash tied up in Venezuela. I am not sure if they can get a decent market share on inbound traffic, where this isnt a problem.

But BW already keeping CCS flights has have cash tied-up in Venezuela for a while now.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 135):

B6 truly replacing AE on the caribbean.

Well, B6 are growing in a big way in the region. Best wishes to them as they do so.

Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 132): For long distance flights which would be better to be based at POS or TAB - B777200ER , A330-200 or 767-300

Well it depends on a few things. Are you thinking new or used planes? If, as one might assume, 2nd hand frames, you'll be hard pressed to find A330-200s on the used market. Very few of those have changed hands anywhere thus far. The 332 is however a good-sized frame for flying routes out of the region. The 767-300ER is a similar size and more readily available. The 777-200ER is larger than either and unless one can fill the plane with passengers and/or haul a bit of cargo to even things up, it may not be the best frame.

Are you asking with respect to a new carrier out of T&T? You'll then have to factor in home-based competition (BW). POS would have to be the base too, TAB is too small to be viable as such a base.

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125): I doubt that the figure will be any higher than the amount of money the GORTT spends on subsidies for BA, Virgin and Monarch to fly to TAB.

Are ZB / MON subsidised into TAB? I did not think they were. As I understood it ZB flies on behalf of Golden Caribbean Holidays. A few years ago, when tourist bookings into TAB were dire and the Government of Trinidad and Tobago offered £100 rebates to UK travellers booking holidays in Crusoe's Isle, they were only available if one flew BA or VS (both of whom are subsidised). If they are now then where does that leave TAB, no flights operating there without subsidy! Before anyone jumps up and down, the umbilical route to POS is different and as an essential service will always need to be supported. We will then be left to reflect that the last non-subsidised flights into TAB ended two years ago (namely LI).

Trintocan.

It's awesome to see the range of opinions that make for a healthy debate concerning the LGW route.

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125): I disagree with BW424 in this case. We all agree that the way the LGW route was not started under the best circumstances. But now that the money was spent on obtaining the aircraft and the ETOPS certificates, they should look at how they can operate this route profitably instead of giving it up.

I understand your point. Costs have already been sunk into the operations so might as well try and make it work. While I do agree with this, I'm speaking of BW doing everything to try and make it profitable yet the route still falls short. What the Moonan board and CFO Ramnarine attempted was raising fares on LGW and diluting BW's product offering on the rest of its network (ancillary revenue model) to make LGW at least break even. This is not the way to go about it. LGW has to be self-sustainable with its established target market without any impact on the rest of the airline's network.

In a nutshell, as much as I hate the way LGW began, I do not mind the route being kept as long as its not a cause for concern on BW's already strained finances. 484 also brought up the issue of the 3 fleet type in a relatively small aircraft operation which has been proven to be less efficient. Sometimes LGW (stand-alone) might be sustainable, but the economics of having a small longhaul fleet to primarily serve one longhaul market may prove to be unsustainable; hence the reason BA has a better chance of success on the routing because of its economies of scale.

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125): BW will have to try to attract the business passengers who are mostly flying BA at the moment. At the moment BW's London flights only serve POS and GEO, but once better connections out of POS are available to places like GND, SVD, KIN, CCS etc demand for this flight could a lot higher.

This in itself will be a problem. In order to attract such premium pax from an already premium operator, you have to present yourself as just as good or better to woo the established premium frequent flyer card holders. This can only be done if you've already built up a premium brand against a respectable regional and international network with reliable in-transit connectivity. BW was doing this 2007-2010. It would have taken at least another 3-5 yrs before long-haul to the UK would have been even a remotely attractive undertaking. Back then, BW was building on their strengths and their economies of scale before looking further. Instead, the LGW route was started without these fundamental corporate milestones achieved, hence the reason the route has struggled thus far.

Quoting BW985 (Reply 125): I agree that the board and especially the former chairman have made lots of mistake managing BW, but I do not believe that the problems at the KIN base can be blamed on the opening of the LGW route.

Well, I never said entirely, but I did say indirectly. Due to a childish heavy-handed chairman, he forced all resources to be focused towards getting that route up and running at all costs while the ATR deal (which he publicly and erroneously implied were unsafe) and the KIN integration were left bleeding profusely.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 124): Where specifically so you see the actual infrastructure lacking- i'm interested, perhaps there are issues i'm missing. Otherwise we have to agree to disagree. hehe

Well, we can agree to disagree as you said...With respect to the areas, they are a lot.......ranging from the placement of security checkpoints for outbound pax to the lack of concessionaires once within the departure lounge.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 134): So if POS isn't a transfer-friendly airport for Venezuelans and if BW is allowed to fly POS-CCS-KIN, then BW could well take passengers from Venezuela to KIN and have them connect to/from BW U.S-Jamaica flights @ KIN.

That can very well be an option. But the ties both socially and economically between POS and CCS are much stronger so it will make more sense to develop that market through POS IMO.

Guys,

Do you know of below symposium?


http://www.aeropodium.com/panama.html


How is this symposium? Is it big with a lot of (cargo) airline and airport managers attending this symposium? I would like to know more about it.

Cheers,

A388

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 134):

Right now the cash is negligable because its POS CCS O&D business. If they do succeed in getting long distance business from CCS via POS then these amounts soar.

The other issue is if there is not sufficient CCS KIN business then this route makes no sense. BW already needs 5X on their milk run into KIN, and operates POS KIN MCO, bringing service to daily. It doesnt appear as if there is much demand for service beyond this, if we note that BW cut back its flights from 10X to daily earlier this year.

Bottom line is BW, the GoTT, and the Piarco have to sit down and figure out how to make POS more user friendly for instransits so that BW can benefit from any opportunities which might develop. And yes, the lack of food available to intransits, especially in the evening, has bene pointed out as a problem. Airlines no longer feed passengers, and so if some one is intransit for a lengthy period then they need to eat.

Which brings me to a question. BW operates in the model of US domestic airlines with minimal inflight service, providing free hot snacks, rather than the beverage/cold purchased snacks that US carriers offer. Does CM operate on the model that most airlines flying to South America do, with full high quality meals? That might be an issue if it seeks to get passengers traveling between N America and S America.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 136):

Not really. B6 is merely using local carriers, over which it has no control, to feed passengers into its SJU and SXM hubs. Seaborne alread has code sharing with AA via SJU.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 140):

I see, but they're serving already many islands, soon they'll be omnipresent if they keep up with this expansion.

It seems the same guy that ran world airways and North American in to the ground is now teaming up with travel span and vision air to operate charter flights to Guyana and Trinidad. How do you guys think this will end?

Quoting BW424 (Reply 138):

Well the airline will have to make strategic plans to improve the performance on the route. As mentioned the route has a demand, it is how CAL gets the demand is where the management will have to sit down and effectively plan out. These are some stats for the route

TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO July
GATWICK - PORT OF SPAIN 15 426 15 426 - 14 923 14 923 - 3
- TOBAGO 4 827 2 177 2 650 3 179 1 756 1 423 52
Total TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO
20 253 17 603 2 650 18 102 16 679 1 423 12

TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO
GATWICK - PORT OF SPAIN 13 604 13 604 - 13 189 13 189 - 3
- TOBAGO 3 520 1 738 1 782 2 127 1 287 840 65
Total TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO
17 124 15 342 1 782 15 316 14 476 840 12

Quoting skystar767 (Reply 142):

Not sure how it will pan out, charter airlines do not have a good reputation in the Caribbean, more so Guyana. I remember some years ago Travelspan so wanted to compete with BWIA that they racked up debts and stop flying in 2008.

Quoting skystar767 (Reply 142): It seems the same guy that ran world airways and North American in to the ground is now teaming up with travel span and vision air to operate charter flights to Guyana and Trinidad. How do you guys think this will end?

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 143):

I make caribbean484's words mine! I believe the Guyanese won't be taken into this trap again... just my two cents.

Hi does anyone know anything about CIT Airways Caribbean Island Transport Airways. According to their website they are the national carrier of DOM and will be operating a fleet of Boeing 737-300s. My internet search has revealed nothing.

http://www.citairways.com/

Regards
BWIA 772

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 145):

The internal pics they have on their page is an interior one of a G3's plane, Smiles is G3'S FF program.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 144):

Actually Travelspan isnt too bad. They sell a huge number of bulk purchased seats to POS/GEO. Some of these on BW. When their charter venture collapsed they rebooked passengers on BW, or refunded their fare. For the more price sensitive end of the market TS will have takers into both POS and GEO. Their public comments suggest that they do not plan to offer cheap fares this time. Just cheaper than what the scheduled carriers offer.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 145):

I didnt even know that 737s were allowed to land at DOM for regular passenger purposes.

Suddenly I have received this e-mail from them, but never flw them nor subscribed to their marketing e-mail, but anyways.... here it goes:

Quote: May we invite you to subscribe to our email newsletters Thank you for flying Air Turks and Caicos Thank-you for your past support in flying with us. Our company is moving ahead with many exciting developments and new routes, so we would appreciate being able to keep you updated on these events, and be able to share news and special offers with you via email. By now some of you may have already heard we have changing our name. We are delighted to present the new logo of interCaribbean What we promise is not to overload you with emails. We know your time is precious and wish to make sure that we communicate only occasionally with offers and a chance to win free trips where we fly!

So now they'll be called InterCaribbean.... On the page they claim they'll have more routes and aircrafts...

I'm curious to see.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 145): Hi does anyone know anything about CIT Airways Caribbean Island Transport Airways. According to their website they are the national carrier of DOM and will be operating a fleet of Boeing 737-300s. My internet search has revealed nothing. http://www.citairways.com/

Though the website seems very inadequate, it seems they are legitimate. See link below

http://dominicanewsonline.com/news/h...ne-offer-flights-florida-dominica/

Let's see if this will get off the ground. I know the 727 goes into DOM, but can the B733 do it as well?