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srbmod
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Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:16 pm

Allegiant Air moving to McCarran's A Concourse

It's also being mentioned of the LAS Facebook page.

As of tomorrow (10/15/13, Allegiant's flights will be going out of the A Gates instead of the D Gates. This came out of nowhere, but with US recently moving to D from A, G4 moving to A makes some sense as it gives that concourse additional business (Vison and Omni are the only other airlines using A). I guess any major renovations to A aren't in the cards anytime soon.
 
SurferX
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:31 pm

Good for G4. Too bad you're right about the A Gates not getting upgraded now. I don't think they've been touched since the 80s...
 
LittleFokker
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:57 pm

It always surprised me that G4 was in D. US has been de-hubbing LAS for the last 5 years, surely some A/B gates would have opened up earlier. How many gates does G4 use?
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FWAERJ
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:57 pm

I guess this means that G4 can start growing at LAS again, albeit at a lower rate than before due to higher airport fees after T3's construction that G4 has mentioned as a factor. I also know that G4 was gate-constrained at LAS before, so this should open up some room for new or resumed routes in the pocket of G4's network between SBN and PBG.

Does G4 plan to add A319s to LAS after the first few AZA birds are added for the longest LAS routes like GRR and SBN, much like how they replaced all MD-80s on AZA-SBN with A319s?
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dsuairptman
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:04 am

All G4 Airbii on property by years end will be based either in FL or at AZA. No plans for buses at LAS.
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Jerseyguy
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:11 am

Yeah, I thought that it was odd too that G4 was in D. Its a little bit odd that F9 and SY are in Concourse E (Terminal 3). I guess they must rent a gate from one of the other T-3 Concourse E carriers and were moved when said carrier moved?
 
apodino
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:35 am

This move is long due and I have been saying for months this should happen. This will give US and AA more room in D and allow D to give the Legacies some growth room.

As for G4...the reason they don't fly Airbuses in there is because LAS charges a much higher landing fee for the A320s than they do for the MD 80s....even though capacity is roughly the same.
 
N908AW
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:55 am

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 5):

Yeah, I thought that it was odd too that G4 was in D. Its a little bit odd that F9 and SY are in Concourse E (Terminal 3). I guess they must rent a gate from one of the other T-3 Concourse E carriers and were moved when said carrier moved?

More about the vendor than anything. Both are handled by Worldwide Flight Services (I know F9 is for sure and I am pretty sure SY and B6 are also) and that's where WFS moved. If I'm not mistaken all of the carriers left at D are self-handled. This is all speculation on my part, but I believe WFS has a few international carrier contracts too (4O? VS?) and it makes sense to consolidate all of the WFS-handled operations that were not combined before.
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FWAERJ
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:04 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
LAS charges a much higher landing fee for the A320s than they do for the MD 80s....even though capacity is roughly the same.

That's weird if true. Most airports charge landing fees by aircraft weight, not aircraft type.
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Beechtobus
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:09 am

Great news for the concessionaires in the area where A and B split. The Burger King was the only survivor after USAir moved out. Maybe some of the food stands and retail outlets will reopen in that area.
 
srbmod
Topic Author
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:27 am

I remember G4 complaining about the costs to operate at LAS around the time T3 was about to open, so is there a possibility that the move to the A Gates is a cost cutting move? I could see the older gates being less attractive to most airlines other than those looking to save money. With LAS being a CUTE facility, a change in gates is not as massive of an undertaking as it is at other airports.

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 5):
Yeah, I thought that it was odd too that G4 was in D.

They probably got a good lease rate on them, as they were previously gates used by National (D was much smaller than it is now, as D originally opened in 1998 with 28 gates and added 10 gates in 2005 and 9 gates in 2008 with the last two wings (NE and NW) opened up. I'm not sure if they had always been on D, as they've served LAS since their early days when FAT was their base of operations and FAT-LAS was the first route.
 
rw717
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:36 am

What is happening with the old terminal 2? If they don't tear it down could G4 move there, kind of like the old PS or AA terminal that used to be in that area? I realize G4 does not need 8 gates but it could become the "ULCC Terminal."
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apodino
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:44 am

T2 is being torn down...and even so G4 needs a lot more space than that so it isn't big enough for them.
 
Beechtobus
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:47 am

Quoting rw717 (Reply 11):

With Allegiant's move to terminal 1, essentially T1 will be the ULCC terminal as Spirit's and Allegiant's Vegas home. There are currently 14 gates unused between A and B and that doesn't include the gated off north rotunda of A. No need any time soon of moving anyone to terminal 2 and further segmenting the already confusingly ( to the lay traveller, anyhow) segmented McCarran.
 
cschleic
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:48 am

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 9):
Great news for the concessionaires in the area where A and B split. The Burger King was the only survivor after USAir moved out. Maybe some of the food stands and retail outlets will reopen in that area.

I wondered the same thing but, with G4 schedules often just a few days per week, is it worth it for restaurants to invest when business will be so lumpy?
 
LittleFokker
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:52 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
T2 is being torn down

What's planned for the land? Increased parking, fuel farm expansion, another cell phone waiting lot, a northern cargo pad, or something else?
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
crownvic
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:02 am

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 15):
Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
T2 is being torn down

What's planned for the land? Increased parking, fuel farm expansion, another cell phone waiting lot, a northern cargo pad, or something else?

The new Airport Mgr. has just made a statement in the past week that T2 is coming down, but did not commit to when that would be, nor has she made any firm commitments as to what would go there except for speculation, that a new terminal was one of the options for future growth.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:42 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 10):
I'm not sure if they had always been on D, as they've served LAS since their early days when FAT was their base of operations and FAT-LAS was the first route.

I don't know which gates the original 1998 flights operated from, but Allegiant was operating out of the A gates by late 1999/early 2000. So this is a return to their old spot at LAS.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:48 am

Quoting N908AW (Reply 7):
More about the vendor than anything. Both are handled by Worldwide Flight Services (I know F9 is for sure and I am pretty sure SY and B6 are also) and that's where WFS moved. If I'm not mistaken all of the carriers left at D are self-handled. This is all speculation on my part, but I believe WFS has a few international carrier contracts too (4O? VS?) and it makes sense to consolidate all of the WFS-handled operations that were not combined before

I know F9 is handled by WFS. G4 is handled by ATS. SY is done by servisair and B6 has their own employees I believe.

I thought A was going to get torn down. But G4 will fit in quite nicely in that terminal.

That seems like a long tow because G4 always has planes out on the remote pad and where is their mx pad located at?
 
F9Animal
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:08 am

Where is G4 going to put its spare planes? Last time I flew through LAS, G4 had about 4 MD's parked over near cargo. Will they tow them all the way from A gates to there?

Yes, G4 used to park at the A gates when it had the small 9's. I also remember seeing them parked in the C gates once in awhile. 1996 or 1997 IIRC.
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ha763
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:31 am

Quoting F9animal (Reply 19):
Where is G4 going to put its spare planes? Last time I flew through LAS, G4 had about 4 MD's parked over near cargo. Will they tow them all the way from A gates to there?

They probably can negotiate to use T2, the closed of portion of A, or the 2 holding pads (N & S) if they wanted to park spare aircraft closer to the A gates.
 
srbmod
Topic Author
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:17 pm

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 13):

They've only charged what gates they're using, as Terminal 1 consists of the A Gates, B Gates, C Gates and D Gates. Terminal 3's gates are the E Gates.

I got used to seeing G4 on D and it will be odd when I fly into LAS and not see their planes parked there.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:50 pm

Quoting F9animal (Reply 19):
Yes, G4 used to park at the A gates when it had the small 9's. I also remember seeing them parked in the C gates once in awhile. 1996 or 1997 IIRC.

Had to be later than that, Allegiant was founded in 1997 but then needed time to earn its certificate. First scheduled route was FAT-LAS beginning in October 1998.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
crownvic
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:39 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 22):
Quoting F9animal (Reply 19):
Yes, G4 used to park at the A gates when it had the small 9's. I also remember seeing them parked in the C gates once in awhile. 1996 or 1997 IIRC.

Had to be later than that, Allegiant was founded in 1997 but then needed time to earn its certificate. First scheduled route was FAT-LAS beginning in October 1998.

I forgot it's former name, but they flew the DC-9-21's originally. Can you recall? I believe the original airline was suppose to fly out of Tahoe. Am I mistaken and this was a totally different airline?

Quoting ha763 (Reply 20):
Quoting F9animal (Reply 19):
Where is G4 going to put its spare planes? Last time I flew through LAS, G4 had about 4 MD's parked over near cargo. Will they tow them all the way from A gates to there?

They probably can negotiate to use T2, the closed of portion of A, or the 2 holding pads (N & S) if they wanted to park spare aircraft closer to the A gates.

Bingo..On their first day of ops from the A Gates, they have moved their parked a/c over to the T2 hard stand. Nice to see a/c parked there again after such a long period of seeing nothing. While it may not be ATA L1011's, 727's or RAF VC-10's, at least they are MD80's!
 
F9Animal
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:51 am

Yes FATflyer, it could have been. I was working for UA at the time, and we were still out of C IIRC.

Crownvic, I do recall an outfit that was in talks to do Tahoe. I think they were going to name it Tahoe Air. And yes, G4 had baby 9's!! I am sure they were 21's. I also remember an airline called Air 21. They flew F-28's! I think they were based out of Fresno. Oh, and Air 21 flew metro's into LAS! I could have sworn I saw them fly a bigger prop into LAS before they disappeared. All close to the time G4 was trying to get flying.


Is G4 using some old Reno Air gates in LAS?
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N1120A
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:19 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 8):
Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
LAS charges a much higher landing fee for the A320s than they do for the MD 80s....even though capacity is roughly the same.

That's weird if true. Most airports charge landing fees by aircraft weight, not aircraft type.

That's exactly why it isn't weird. The MD80 is substantially lighter.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
crownvic
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:58 am

Quoting F9animal (Reply 24):
Yes FATflyer, it could have been. I was working for UA at the time, and we were still out of C IIRC.

Crownvic, I do recall an outfit that was in talks to do Tahoe. I think they were going to name it Tahoe Air. And yes, G4 had baby 9's!! I am sure they were 21's. I also remember an airline called Air 21. They flew F-28's! I think they were based out of Fresno. Oh, and Air 21 flew metro's into LAS! I could have sworn I saw them fly a bigger prop into LAS before they disappeared. All close to the time G4 was trying to get flying.


The airline in question prior to Allegiant was Westjet Express and I believe Allegiant was a iteration of this airline. I had a genius friend remind me of this! As for Air 21, I do recall them, but I do not recall them ever flying Metro's. I only remember them being solely an F-28 operator.
 
cactus13
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:00 am

Quoting crownvic (Reply 26):
The airline in question prior to Allegiant was Westjet Express and I believe Allegiant was a iteration of this airline. I had a genius friend remind me of this! As for Air 21, I do recall them, but I do not recall them ever flying Metro's. I only remember them being solely an F-28 operator.

Ironically, I was just reading about this the other day. The company started out as WestJet Express in 1997, but since WestJet Airlines of Canada had just started operations, they changed their name to Allegiant Air right after they got their certificate in 1998.

I was working for America West in LAS at the time as a supervisor of our short lived Contract Services Group (the CO contract at the time was separate). We had gotten the contract to handle Sun Country in August 1998. Towards the end of 1998, we started handling flights for a tour operator called WinWest Express which had public charter flights operated by Win Air from FAT to LAS a couple times a week with 737-200s.

In early 99, Win Air decided to do their own thing (multiple daily LGB to LAS/SMF/OAK/SLC flights with 732s and 733s) so WinWest contracted with Allegiant to do the FAT flights with their DC-9-21 (N127NK aka the rocketship). After a couple months G4 took over the route as their own (but still as a public charter). The aircraft would come in about 0900, sit all day on gate B8, and then leave around 1600/1700. Later in 99 they added TVL to LAS and BUR. The aircraft flew FAT-LAS-TVL-BUR-TVL-LAS-FAT. In 2000, they got 3 ex-TW DC-9-51s (N410TW, N411TW, and N414TW I think). Since Win Air had shut down, G4 tried to make LGB a base of operations with 3x daily LGB-LAS and LGB-RNO, in addition to still doing the FAT-LAS and other charter flights. We handled Allegiant this entire time. The -51s usually parked on B11 or B14.

All our contracts started ending in fall 99 when Win Air went bankrupt, CO brought in their own people in mid-2000, and Sun Country hired their own staff in fall 2000. We were still handling G4 when I transferred to SNA in May 2001 so not sure when HP stopped handling them. But FAT-LAS is by far their longest route being continuously flown since early 99.
 
n7371f
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:19 pm

Maybe now that Allegiant is firmly entrenched in Terminal 1 and Concourse A they can spend a couple hundred bucks and put up a reputable looking ticket counter. Have you seen it? It's a party banner thumb tacked to the backwall. I know they're cheap and all but my gosh it's your largest airport station - and your home town airport - and you have a banner from FedEx Office hanging.
 
Beechtobus
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:33 pm

Great to see A and B bustling with activity this morning. Looks like G4 is using a mix of the north and south teardrop pads and the area in front of T2 as their ron pad.

A little off the subject, does anyone know why Southwest is using B19-22, next to the Spirit gates, and why the south (B9-15) rotunda is closed off currently? Is this a temporary set up or a permanent thing?
 
B757capt
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:44 pm

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 29):

Remodel to the gates.
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F9Animal
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:59 pm

Crownvic, I was talking about an airline named Air LA that flew metro's into LAS. They were a tiny airline, but added some cool action during those days into LAS. I miss the 90's! So many great planes and schemes! Not to mention Grand and their 9ers!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
whatusaid
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:33 am

Quoting F9animal (Reply 24):
Crownvic, I do recall an outfit that was in talks to do Tahoe. I think they were going to name it Tahoe Air. And yes, G4 had baby 9's!! I am sure they were 21's. I also remember an airline called Air 21. They flew F-28's! I think they were based out of Fresno. Oh, and Air 21 flew metro's into LAS! I could have sworn I saw them fly a bigger prop into LAS before they disappeared. All close to the time G4 was trying to get flying.

Tahoe Air flew 737's for a short time.

Air 21 never flew props. I was an investor in that carrier and we had a few F28s, including one or two we parted out as we had insufficient funds from nearly day one...

Westjet Express became Allegiant because of a name conflict...
 
dsuairptman
Posts: 707
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:41 am

G4 Will park unused planes at T2 similar to what they do now on the east pad.
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
F9Animal
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:36 pm

IIRC, Reno Air used gate A1. I remember how awful the nose gear on the 80's would be twisted to where one tire was lifted off the ground because of how tight the pushback was. I mean, they would have to do such a sharp turn to avoid the jetblast wall. Is that wall still there? And would they utilize A1? I wonder how bad that is on the nose gear?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
rw717
Posts: 209
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:01 pm

Quoting F9animal (Reply 34):

When I worked for Reno Air in LAS we had A1, A4 and A19. I believe they eventually got more when they started the short lived flights to LAX.
Reno Air - The Biggest Little Airline in the World
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2837
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RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 32):
Tahoe Air flew 737's for a short time.

They were operated by Casino Express Airlines (now Xtra Airways; IATA code XP) as a public charter. Tahoe Air did seek a FAA Part 121 license when the XP public charters were being done, but they didn't last long enough to get their license.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 28):

Maybe now that Allegiant is firmly entrenched in Terminal 1 and Concourse A they can spend a couple hundred bucks and put up a reputable looking ticket counter. Have you seen it? It's a party banner thumb tacked to the backwall. I know they're cheap and all but my gosh it's your largest airport station - and your home town airport - and you have a banner from FedEx Office hanging.

Not uncommon for Allegiant. Here at FWA, there's no G4 sign at their ticket counter (shared with Eagle) on the backwall; just an Eagle sign on the backwall, an airport-provided G4 sign hanging over the queue next to the AA/MQ sign, and blue G4-branded stanchions with a sign so the G4 pax are separate from the AA ones.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
The MD80 is substantially lighter.

Didn't know that there was such a weight difference. Is the MD-80 a lot lighter than the 737NG as well? Either way, as G4 starts to retire MD-80s fast, I think that we'll be seeing the A32x at LAS sooner rather than later, higher fees or not, starting with the longest existing MD-80 routes (GRR and SBN).

[Edited 2013-10-17 14:46:56]
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sacampb
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:42 pm

RE: Allegiant Gate Change At LAS Effective 10/15/13.

Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:55 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):

That's exactly why it isn't weird. The MD80 is substantially lighter.

That is incorrect, A320 MTOW is 150,000 lbs, A319 is 141,000 lbs and a MD-80 is 160,000 lbs.

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