SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:40 am

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 49):
What about the A332? Does this aircraft not work for LH at SAN? Or the A343?

I've been thinking that the A332/33 may be a little too large for SAN. I know there's the rising terrain
at the end of the runway, but I don't really think that's a huge factor, considering BA uses a 777 to
LHR and Hawaiian has a daily A332 to HNL. I suspect that it's the size of the aircraft and LH probably
thinks SAN is not a large enough market to handle an A330, which I believe why LH dropped PHX and
PDX, but I'm speculating.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 48):
I think its interesting study of how traffic bleeds away from local SAN community airport to bigger mega airport.

No doubt some pax from SAN travel 120 miles to LAX to catch flights, especially int'l flights. LAX has a huge mix of int'l flights, some even catch commuter flights to SFO to catch some flights.
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DCAYOW
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:40 am

The A330 is underpowered for the SAN departure. SAN requires high power to weight ratio engines. This limits the effective range of the A330 to basically the Hawaiian Islands and the east coast.
Retorne ao céu...
 
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lindy field
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:12 pm

I'll just pipe in to clarify that Lufthansa doesn't operate the A330-200 any more. With the A330-300s underpowered as DCAYOW mentioned, that leaves the A340s. The A340-300s are slated for replacement relatively soon and I'm not sure that they have the performance (even with 4 engines!) necessary for ops from FRA to SAN. The trouble is that the A350 may be a bit large... It's also worth considering that tourism to California from Europe does drop off quite a bit in the winter. The solution might be seasonal flights...

There definitely are a lot of people who fly out of LAX or who make connections at major hubs like ATL, IAH, or JFK for their international travel, but that's always going to be a hassle and most people will prefer to fly nonstop if it's not too expensive. The 787 is sort of the perfect plane for international service to SAN, but unfortunately, some of the major airlines of Europe have chosen not to order them.
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:50 pm

I was thinking that maybe we could see Condor starting up flights between SAN-FRA.
There's also Thomas Cook, or Thomson Airways. I could realistically see Condor
starting up SAN to take advantage of leisure traffic. I've been also looking at Norwegian
possibly sending a 787 this way. Norwegian has been recently adding new U.S. cities
lately.
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san88
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:55 pm

For the early part of the morning SAN had fog / low visibility. Saw something rare , occasionally SAN will operate dual operations on 9 & 27. I've seen this before, during fog ( reverse operations) runway 9 for take off and landings but sometimes planes will hold at the end of 27 and once spacing and airspace cleared, 27 will be used for takeoffs then will revert back to 9.

I'll assume someone who is heavy will request for 27? Today I saw a UA 737-800 holding for 27 takeoff and she looked heavy. Minutes later runway 9 operations continued and HA A330 took off (she was a monster  

Has anyone seen this dual operations 9/27, it's pretty awesome!
sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:51 pm

Quoting san88 (Reply 54):
Minutes later runway 9 operations continued and HA A330 took off (she was a monster

The HA A330 did a runway-9 takeoff? That's steep takeoff! I wonder if the JAL 787 could
do a runway-9 takeoff?

Quoting san88 (Reply 54):
Has anyone seen this dual operations 9/27, it's pretty awesome!

That's got to be an extremely rare occurrence!
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san88
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:44 am

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 55):
The HA A330 did a runway-9 takeoff? That's steep takeoff!

Yes it was AWESOME! during the winter FOG is very common in SAN. I've actually been on a full HA 767 on 9 takeoff during heavy rain a few years ago.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 55):
Quoting san88 (Reply 54):
Has anyone seen this dual operations 9/27, it's pretty awesome!

That's got to be an extremely rare occurrence!

In my seven years at SAN (WN) I've seen this dual 9/27 operations three times, very rare  
sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:13 am

In the early to mid-80s UA used to run a daily SAN-LAX-HNL flight with a 747. I
remember seeing the UA 747 do a runway-9 takeoff one day. I recall, it wasn't
stormy or foggy that day. And just doing a short run to LAX I figure the plane
was half empty.


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[Edited 2013-10-26 21:16:09]
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:18 am

With fog or strong Santa Ana winds, Runway 9 can rarely be the operational runway. If it is, some aircraft can't use 9 for departure, so they request 27 and have to wait for a break in arrivals for takeoff. A 738, 321 or 739 with an East Coast non-stop probably can't use 9, especially if 9 is in use for fog, not winds.
I believe the FAA set new standards on head to head operations that require more separation. Maybe someone knows more.
European markets need an aircraft with 15-16 hour range aircraft like the 772ER or 787, so they can take off well under MGTOW on the runway and obstructions. My guess is Condor or other Charter operators would do seasonal service and maybe 2-4 days per week.
 
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SANFan
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:11 am

I'm going to jump in here again for a quick post. (I'm in Panguitch, Utah tonight.)

Just thought I'd mention that a few years ago (2007), the SDCRAA/SDIA route development team announced their goals for desired new intercontinental service from SAN: Europe (especially LON), Asia, and Latin America.

For those not keeping track, the first two have been summarily checked off the list; the emphasis now -- and this has been confirmed more recently as still the case -- is on a Central or South American nonstop. (And IMHO, LAN being a OW member and operator of the 787 would seem like a very likely candidate!) And Hampton Brown has a mighty good, and award-winning track record of accomplishments in the field of Route Development! So I give this goal better than even odds of happening at some point.

For those talking about new European service from Lindbergh, I thought I'd mention that SAN's incentive program for new international service to Europe (as revised in 2011) is essentially unavailable until summer of 2014. (This is 3 years following the introduction of service to the region, defined as "Europe", by BA in June of 2011.) I would expect that any carrier desiring to start intercontinental service at SAN would want to take advantage of such an incentive so I'm anxious to see what might happen next year or the year after...

And I too would think LH to be the most interested in adding SAN to their route map but their equipment options are, as is already being discussed, an important factor to be considered.

Finally, someone asked earlier in this thread about leakage from SAN to LAX. Numbers for 2006 presented in 2007 had the figure at just under .5M pax for that year. I can't find (or remember) any more recent figure. Whether that number has increased or decreased -- due maybe to more service now available from Lindbergh? -- I don't know but that may provide at least a bit of data for discussion purposes.

bb
 
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lindy field
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:11 pm

I have to admit that I would be quite surprised to see any SAN nonstops to Central or South America any time soon. I'm not aware of any particularly strong population or trade ties between San Diego and any specific areas south of Mexico. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Furthermore, the planned cessation of LAN flights to SFO from Lima early next year suggests that LAN does not do too well without strong local feed. If they can't make it in SFO, I highly doubt that SAN is a likely option.

On a brighter note, in another thread it seems that Volaris has had their route application for service between San Diego and Toluca approved. We'll have to wait and see if they actually initiate service.

Also, that's interesting information about the incentive program at SAN. I guess it will be another year or more (probably more) before we see any additional service from Europe.
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:06 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 59):
SAN's incentive program for new international service to Europe (as revised in 2011) is essentially unavailable until summer of 2014.

I thought the incentive program for new European flights would be available this year.
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AAR90
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:16 am

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 55):
Quoting san88 (Reply 54):
Has anyone seen this dual operations 9/27, it's pretty awesome!

That's got to be an extremely rare occurrence!

I guess that depends upon your definition of "awesome" and "rare."   

Sat. morning I was asked if we could use Rwy-9 as that was the landing runway. While we replied in the affirmative, ATC decided against that as they already had two planes waiting to use Rwy-27 after a couple more landings and it would be easier to just add us to the list of Rwy-27 departures (also easier on ground traffic movements). Sun. morning we landed on Rwy-9 while one AA 737 was holding short at that end and 3 other planes were holding for Rwy-27 departure (an additional 4 acft were waiting to taxi eastbound to use Rwy-27 as well).

When it gets busy, ATC will operate 4-6 departures on Rwy-27 and then land 4-6 arrivals on Rwy-9. Primary reason for this configuration is the terrain east of the airport. Departures are often weight restricted due to the necessary climb and will require Rwy-27 while arrivals require Rwy-9 due to its lower ILS minimums for the approach (353' vs 680').

IMHO, neither "awesome" nor "rare" -- but I have a different perspective than most.   
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L0VE2FLY
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:38 pm

I don't think that San Diego's proximity to LAX is the main reason for the lack of long haul services in SAN. LAX is not exactly in our backyard, it's ~2 hours drive if you're lucky and don't get stuck in traffic jam, most San Diegans who fly via LAX take a connecting flight out of SAN or CLD. Aircrafts operating long haul take a payload hit because of the high terrain nearby and SAN's relatively short runway.

It looks like SAN will face even more competition from an airport that's not even in the US by the end of next year. Construction On Airport Terminal Linking Tijuana To San Diego Is Off The Ground



Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 45):
We have a sizeable Chaldean community here in SD. I'd heard about 20 or 30,000. I don't think
it's large enough to sustain a flight to the Middle East, but I don't know for sure. I figure if
someone wants to get to the Middle East, they can catch an Emirates flight from LAX or a Royal
Jordanian flight from DTW.

The number of Middle Easterns in San Diego is much higher than 30,000. Chaldeans are Iraqi Christians and are mostly concentrated in El Cajon, however, there's many more Middle Easterns from other countries and backgrounds across San Diego county.

I don't see EK, EY or QR coming to SAN any time soon, such long flights would take a serious weight restriction, also connecting in the Gulf is not a good option for most Middle Easterns as it would involve backtracking, it would be good for those flying to South Asia though.



Quoting mercure1 (Reply 48):
So anyone have an idea of how many passengers (millions) utilize LAX and other Los Angeles basin airports as the gateway to San Diego?

Certainly many millions opt to take the 100mile drive to San Diego, while many also utilize the short hops up to LAX on AA and UA to go beyond also.

I think its interesting study of how traffic bleeds away from local SAN community airport to bigger mega airport. Suppose its the same in LA itself, with smaller community airports always competing with LAX being under its big shadow.

As I mentioned above, Not too many San Diegans drive 2 hours to catch a flight out of LAX, but for overseas and out-of-state tourists, yes, using LAX as a gateway to San Diego makes sense.




Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 51):
The A330 is underpowered for the SAN departure. SAN requires high power to weight ratio engines. This limits the effective range of the A330 to basically the Hawaiian Islands and the east coast.

Zoom Airlines used to fly SAN-LGW with the 763, does the 763 have higher power to weight ratio than the A332? I do realize that LH no longer operate the A332.




Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 53):
I was thinking that maybe we could see Condor starting up flights between SAN-FRA.
There's also Thomas Cook, or Thomson Airways. I could realistically see Condor
starting up SAN to take advantage of leisure traffic. I've been also looking at Norwegian
possibly sending a 787 this way. Norwegian has been recently adding new U.S. cities
lately.

   AB is another candidate, they'll receive their 787s next year and they can offer a lot of connections via TXL.




Quoting SANFan (Reply 59):
For those not keeping track, the first two have been summarily checked off the list; the emphasis now -- and this has been confirmed more recently as still the case -- is on a Central or South American nonstop.

Come on JAL, put a GRU tag on your NRT-SAN flight!




Quoting lindy field (Reply 60):
I have to admit that I would be quite surprised to see any SAN nonstops to Central or South America any time soon. I'm not aware of any particularly strong population or trade ties between San Diego and any specific areas south of Mexico. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Furthermore, the planned cessation of LAN flights to SFO from Lima early next year suggests that LAN does not do too well without strong local feed. If they can't make it in SFO, I highly doubt that SAN is a likely option.

   It's unfortunate though, as SAN is perfectly located for those traveling between Central/South America and the Western US & Canada.



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 62):
IMHO, neither "awesome" nor "rare" -- but I have a different perspective than most.

Indeed you do, I've never seen a Rwy 09 departure.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:41 am

In all the years I've flown into and out of SAN, I've landed on 9 twice - once back in about 2003 and once last year. Both situations involved late morning or early afternoon arrivals where there was dense fog and the ceiling was no more than 1,000 feet.

When the family and I stayed in SAN on vacation in 2010 or so (late August), we rented a condo in a place off Sassafrass Street on the hill. We had a great view of the airport.

On our second day, we saw a very low cloud layer, with the usual conga line of jets awaiting the 6:30 am starting gun for Rwy 27. About 30 minutes later, I noticed all departures halted, and saw the lights of what was three or four jets landing down Rwy 9. They cleared the queue, and departures off 27 resumed.

BTW, anyone else remember when little prop craft would depart off of Rwy 31?
 
bjorn14
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:10 pm

How does everyone think the TIJ bridge will affect SAN?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:09 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 65):
How does everyone think the TIJ bridge will affect SAN?

SAN-Mexico and maybe Central America flights will be affected the most, as for long haul and domestic flights there will be very little change, unless Mexican carriers significantly expand their operations out of TIJ and advertise more in San Diego County.
 
AM777LR
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:15 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 63):
I don't think that San Diego's proximity to LAX is the main reason for the lack of long haul services in SAN.

The terrain and the runway are the big restrictions. If it weren't for those two things, SAN would be more diverse.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 63):
I don't see EK, EY or QR coming to SAN any time soon, such long flights would take a serious weight restriction

The only plane that would even remotely have a chance of flying to the middle east from SAN is the 777LR. Maybe the 789. Even with these planes, there would be MAJOR restrictions. Maybe they could fly DXB/AUH/DOH-SAN-PHX-DXB/AUH/DOH, or something like that.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 63):
It looks like SAN will face even more competition from an airport that's not even in the US by the end of next year

I know many people drive to TIJ to catch cheap domestic flights to Mexico on 4O and Y4, my self included, but how many cross to take flights to PVG and NRT. AM's Asia flights are ridiculously expensive. Flights from LAX are much cheaper. I don't know about you, but a two hour drive is better than spending almost $1,000 more on a flight. Plus, the border crossings at San Ysidro and Mesa de Otay move at a snails pace. The average wait of like 2 hours to cross back into the US.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 65):
How does everyone think the TIJ bridge will affect SAN?

As mentioned above, for flights to Mexico, it will affect SAN in my opinion. But for flights to Asia, LAX will be more attractive to most people. On top of that, the media scares people by saying they will be kidnapped if they go to TJ and that is should be avoided at all cost...that is simply not true. Thousands of people cross into Tijuana every day.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 63):
It's unfortunate though, as SAN is perfectly located for those traveling between Central/South America and the Western US & Canada.

Flights from SAN to Central and South American would be a gold mine! As mentioned above, maybe JAL could fly NRT-SAN-GRU to compete with KE on its ICN-LAX-GRU flight. The 788 would be the perfect aircraft.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 66):
SAN-Mexico and maybe Central America flights will be affected the most

   Minus the Central American flights.
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:19 am

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 67):
but how many cross to take flights to PVG and NRT.



AMs' flight to NRT from TIJ is only a fuel stop. It's a triangle route from MEX. The flight is
nonstop NRT to MEX.Also I'd heard that people cannot book NRT from TIJ.The flight originates down in MEX. When the flight first started,AM was hoping to get pax from
San Diego and Orange County,but everyone still went to LAX for flights.
The TIJ-PVG flight has done better.I guess some pax are using it from
north of the border. The bridge should not affect SAN traffic too much.Apparently,
it is for people wanting to catch domestic flights down into Mexico, but I'd
heard there would be a toll fee for using the bridge, I don't know how much
money people will be saving after paying the toll fee.


Quoting AM777LR (Reply 67):
The only plane that would even remotely have a chance of flying to the middle east from SAN is the 777LR. Maybe the 789. Even with these planes, there would be MAJOR restrictions. Maybe they could fly DXB/AUH/DOH-SAN-PHX-DXB/AUH/DOH, or something like that.


What about SAN-LHR-DXB? Although I don't see EK of EY flying to SAN in the near future.
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AM777LR
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:11 am

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 68):
AMs' flight to NRT from TIJ is only a fuel stop. It's a triangle route from MEX. The flight is
nonstop NRT to MEX.Also I'd heard that people cannot book NRT from TIJ.The flight originates down in MEX.

True it does originate in MEX, but it is bookable from TIJ. I recently moved back to the States from the Tijuana area and while living down there, my company sent me to Japan and China. I flew AM from TIJ to NRT, then flew NH from NRT to PVG, and then AM on PVG to TIJ. that flight on the 767-200ER wasn't so bad. I was on XA-TOJ with the new cabin. The 777 flight was decent as well. The loads seemed very healthy on both flights.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 68):
When the flight first started,AM was hoping to get pax from

San Diego and Orange County,but everyone still went to LAX for flights.

Main reason is because it is so much cheaper from LAX. If my company hadn't paid for it, I would have flown from LAX. I did a quick search and the cheapest LAX-NRT non-stop flight is on SQ on an A380 and it cost $509.50 oneway per person. Compare that to AM on TIJ-NRT at $1,437.86 oneway per person. Which would you choose? The PVG flights are even more expensive, at $1,626.86 on AM from TIJ and $563.20 on MU from LAX.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 68):
I'd
heard there would be a toll fee for using the bridge, I don't know how much
money people will be saving after paying the toll fee.

i have heard it will be about $20 per person. Not too bad.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 68):
What about SAN-LHR-DXB?

That route might work better, but maybe SAN-CDG-DXB, because I don't think there needs to be anymore capacity on the SAN-LHR route.
 
reality
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:02 am

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 69):
i have heard it will be about $20 per person. Not too bad.

Actually, the developers have never said what fee they have in mind. It might be $10, it might be $20, it might be $50. So whatever anyone has "heard" is pure speculation. And remember, the fee is each way.
 
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SANFan
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:56 am

The thing is, Mexico-bound flights from TIJ are attractive to some people in San Diego because they are domestic flights, and therefore, cheaper than trans-border (international) flights from Lindbergh. But an international flight from TJ, whether it be to Asia or (at some time in the future) to Europe, is not going to have the same cost benefit (is it?) Plus, a San Diegan who is a US citizen, desiring to fly from TIJ to Asia, would have to deal with the border crossing, plus boarding an intercontinental flight from a foreign country. (I would think that would be somewhat more complicated than boarding a plane in San Diego for Asia.)

Along those same lines, if any US carrier started flying from TIJ to their hub in the US, it then becomes an international flight and a whole new ballgame. Certainly no one from north of the border would want to do that. But would there even be a marker for such service? Would Northern Baja (Mexican) residents desiring to fly to Cleveland, if, say, UA offered a TIJ-DEN flight - an international flight - be interested? I don't think so. I'm sure it would be much cheaper for those Mexican residents living in TJ who want to fly to CLE to simply cross the border and fly UA domestically from SAN (or even LA) to CLE.

I wanted to clarify my comments about the SDCRAA seeking Latin America as their next goal. Most folks seem to think that the potential for such service from SAN is poor. I've seen some numbers and even though SAN seems to have higher ones than a lot of other US cities, the figures are NOT real high. So I don't really know.

But what I do know is that the experts -- and I do consider SAN's Route Development folks as experts -- seem to feel that the potential of getting a carrier to offer some sort of service from SAN is good. (And I also know that they do have a pretty darned good track record lately!) I would presume some sort of sub-daily nonstop to some hub either in Central or northern South America might be doable...

bb
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:06 am

Perhaps PTY. I cannot think where else they could do this in Central/South America.

Not GRU, not ECE, and not SCL.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:24 am

FWIW, I found a County of San Diego publication which provides some info on demographic backgrounds of folks in the county. Other than the Hispanic population, whose roots are not immediately identifiable, but are likely to be overwhelmingly Mexican, the biggest foreign communities in the county are the Philippino, Vietnamese, and Chinese communities. Most are pretty small with under only the Philippino community exceeding 50,000 (about 150,000 by government estimates). The Vietnamese community and Chinese community are estimated at about 45,000 to 50,000 each. PR already files into LAX and I don't see much SAN traffic other than friends/family.

I could see service to PEK or PVG given the business focus, the population base and the beyond hub connection abilities on the Chinese end. That being said, its an additional 800 miles beyond NRT to get to PEK. ....
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:03 am

It is kind of fun to dream about having exotic guests on a regular basis, isn't it?

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Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Alex Montano

 
AM777LR
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:01 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 71):

It is complicated for non-mexican citizens crossing the border and flying internationally out of TIJ. At the border, they will have to go to the imigration office and get a tourist visa. Whne you exit the country I.e flying out of TIJ, these cards will be collected. On too of that these cards aren't free, they cost something like $20 or $30 and if you show up at the airport and don't have yor tourist card it is something like a $50 fee.

Quoting reality (Reply 70):

We won't know until it opens but I can't imagine it costing more than $30 one way.
 
bjorn14
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:17 am

Any room at SAN for a new (established) carrier to have 15-20 flights a day?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:09 pm

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 69):
Main reason is because it is so much cheaper from LAX.

I guess that could be a reason people fly from LAX, because of the cheaper flights. I figure
another reason is that LAX is a Star Alliance,Skyteam, and Oneworld hub.
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AM777LR
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:58 pm

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 77):

Yep, and the competition brings down prices. There like like 10 carriers on the LAX-NRT route and one on TIJ-NRT. AM can charge what they want and people will pay (for the most part).
 
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SANFan
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:28 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 76):
Any room at SAN for a new (established) carrier to have 15-20 flights a day?

Absolutely! That'd be, what, 4 gates? No problem. (Whether at the CT or T2.)

Do you know something the rest of us don't ?!?! Yours is a very intriguing post...

bb
 
usctrojan18
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:58 am

Any chance of new domestic service to SAN? If AS does move into T2, will they have any room to expand? If they do, which routes would they want to start? I would think SJC and SMF would be next, but after that where else would they go? They lost on the SAN-DCA bid, they missed their chance on the SAN-Miami area route, GDL might work, but TIJ is too close.
Besides AS, would any other airlines add service? VX has been at SAN for 4 years, but still only serve SFO. Also NK has added some routes to SAN, maybe they want to try SAN-DTW or SAN-FLL (Even if AA is on the SAN-Miami market). Finally is there any other market WN could start from SAN? SAN-DAL when the wright amendment ends, but that is about it.
SAN's future looks brighter than it did in 06. They still need another runway and T1 needs to be rebuilt, but SAN is heading in a good direction.
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:27 pm

N101FE is en route again as FX9047 MEM-SAN should arrive at around 0930 PDT.
 
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lindy field
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:26 pm

When I first saw the previous post, I didn't realize that it meant the FedEx is in SAN again today. Is this for training purposes again? Any reason why SAN is chosen? Should we expect to see some of the existing FedEx flights to SAN change to the 767 in the near future?

Regarding the previous posts about new domestic service at SAN, it seems to me that the most likely additions will come from those airlines that are making lots of money and expanding at the moment. To me, that means that we could very well see more service from Spirit, which currently seems to be doing so well. Especially with the, what was it, fifteen planes they have coming in 2015, they'll need to expand somewhere. Since a few of their flights only operate once a day at present, I could imagine increased service as well as new destinations. More interesting to me, I have to admit, is the question of what Delta might do. I'm quite curious to see if they'll add flights to their new focus city in Seattle, as they've recently done in LAX, will do in SFO, and a few other western cities. Does the E-175 have the range for it? What about the 717? Either would be a nice add and would make for a bit of competition with Alaska Airlines. Other than that, there's the chance of Allegiant flights to IWA, and maybe Southwest to DAL when the Wright Amendment is allowed to lapse.

I think we may see the number of flights to some existing destinations increased since so much capacity has been cut over recent years. Some of it will come back at some point, won't it? We should also see some capacity increases through the introduction of larger aircraft, with JetBlue bringing in A321s instead of A320s, more United 737-900s, etc. Sadly, I think the 737-900s coming to Delta and United will also mean fewer 757s at SAN. One case of upgauging I've noticed recently is that Delta Connection is using the CRJ-900 fairly often on flights from LAX, quite a bit more plane than UAX is using when they send EMB-120s...
 
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SANFan
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:31 pm

Today has seen the inauguration of AS's newest route from Lindbergh Field - Boise! The inbound arrived at ~11:40 this morning and the plane will return to Idaho at 5:35pm; it is currently a CR7 op'd by OO for Alaska. (It is scheduled to change to a Q400 in a month.)

This becomes AS's 13th nonstop destination from SAN! (And #14, MMH, will be starting next month.) AS remains second only to WN in the number of unique nonstop destinations from SAN, with WN hanging on to their (diminishing) lead with 19.

The November schedule for Alaska will see an average of 21 daily departures with ~8 RON a/c! Very impressive when considering that as recently as Summer of 2010, AS operated a schedule of 11 daily flights from SAN to 3 destinations! (And 3 RONs.)

Quoting usctrojan18 (Reply 80):
If AS does move into T2, will they have any room to expand? If they do, which routes would they want to start? I would think SJC and SMF would be next, but after that where else would they go? They lost on the SAN-DCA bid, they missed their chance on the SAN-Miami area route, GDL might work, but TIJ is too close.
IF -- and I really don't know -- AS remains committed to this SAN-Experiment, there should be no shortage of potential new routes from here. If AS moves to T2 -- and at some point I think they might have to due a re-build of T1 -- I don't see any problem with gate space. Until such a move is necessary, there is no shortage of gates in T1W for AS to use. They are actually using 7 gates these days (12-18) even though their official gates, according to their website, are 15-18. I keep trying to find out if AS has committed yet to permanently taking over additional gates in their rotunda -- or if someone else may do so -- and nobody's talking. If anyone knows anything about the near-term future plans for T1W, PLEASE let me know!

In any case, AS in SAN bears watching in the next year. AS certainly has a number of issues to deal with these days and I do hope they don't end up scrapping the amazing growth and presence they've already achieved here. I think 2014 will be a very telling year for the carrier...

bb

[Edited 2013-11-01 16:43:50]
 
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remcor
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:04 am

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 75):
It is complicated for non-mexican citizens crossing the border and flying internationally out of TIJ. At the border, they will have to go to the imigration office and get a tourist visa. Whne you exit the country I.e flying out of TIJ, these cards will be collected. On too of that these cards aren't free, they cost something like $20 or $30 and if you show up at the airport and don't have yor tourist card it is something like a $50 fee.

Eh, it's not super complicated I think. I flew to BOG Colombia for vacation earlier this year via TIJ and the visa card at the airport is one more step, but it didn't take too long. Don't remember what it cost, but my flight was still much cheaper from TIJ than it would have been from SAN. The bridge would have been fantastic had it existed for me.

I think this may spur investment at TIJ and warrant the place being upgraded and made a bit more user friendly. If it attracts more flights out of TIJ that's a win for both sides of the border.
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:12 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 83):
Today has seen the inauguration of AS's newest route from Lindbergh Field - Boise! The inbound arrived at ~11:40 this morning and the plane will return to Idaho at 5:35pm; it is currently a CR7 op'd by OO for Alaska. (It is scheduled to change to a Q400 in a month.)

SAN-BOI in a turboprop? Wow.
 
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SANFan
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:46 am

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 85):
SAN-BOI in a turboprop? Wow.

Yeah, it will be starting Dec 1 -- and appears to stay that way through February; in early March it looks like it might again become a CR7... Maybe at that time, AS will come up with something to use the plane for rather than just sitting in SAN for 6 hours!

About 2.5 hours on a Q. Doable but maybe not everyone's idea of an enjoyable flight experience. As long as they are keeping the flight operating, I am happy to see any a/c type.

Quoting lindy field (Reply 82):
To me, that means that we could very well see more service from Spirit, which currently seems to be doing so well. ... Since a few of their flights only operate once a day at present, I could imagine increased service as well as new destinations.

NK seemed to be growing pretty nicely in SAN last year but nothing new at all this year. Kind of disappointing. I personally was convinced we would see SAN-IWA on NK but perhaps since they knew they would be moving to Sky Harbor, they didn't. But I still believe we WILL see some additional routes here from Spirit at some point. IAH, MSP, ORD and maybe even a couple of additional Mexican destinations could work? (DEN and FLL probably not.)

Quoting lindy field (Reply 82):
More interesting to me, I have to admit, is the question of what Delta might do. I'm quite curious to see if they'll add flights to their new focus city in Seattle, as they've recently done in LAX, will do in SFO, and a few other western cities. Does the E-175 have the range for it? What about the 717?

I'm also waiting for the next salvo in the AS-DL thing. I would think that if DL continues what they've been doing with SEA, SAN can't be too far down the list. (There's been no preemptive move by AS so apparently they don't see SEA-SAN from DL as too likely..) But IF Delta did add SAN-SEA, I would expect to see mainline rather than an RJ.

Quoting lindy field (Reply 82):
Other than that, there's the chance of Allegiant flights to IWA, and maybe Southwest to DAL when the Wright Amendment is allowed to lapse.

G4 is a big unknown for me regarding SAN right now. Being as they so not serve Lindbergh currently -- but will supposedly start SAN-BLI again next spring or summer -- I'm not very optimistic to see anything new here from them. I will say that I think flights between SAN and IWA would do well; I just don't see anyone suitable to serve the route.

DAL-SAN on WN in a year? Maybe not one of the very first routes added from Love Field but I'm pretty sure it will happen fairly quickly. (Probably quicker than ATL-SAN was added.)

bb
 
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hawaiian717
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:36 am

Flew into SAN around midday today (November 1). Noticed that the east side of T2W appears to be back in use, as United had aircraft parked at 38 and 39. Snapped a quick proof photo too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/10619682605/
 
bw50505
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:48 pm

DAL has flown their new B739 from DTW-SAN as DL833. It arrived at around 1020 PDT.

Also, N101FE is probably here for FAA Proving again. Maybe SAN is on their list of airports that cargo aircraft must fly to during proving.
 
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SANFan
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:59 pm

Well, it happened today -- DL announces SEA-SAN starting next June! Here's the link to the thread:
DL Launching SEA-PDX/SAN (by Triple7Lr Nov 3 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Four r/t on CR9s starting June 2, 2014; plus DL is entering the SEA-PDX market as well next fall!

On the positive side, I'm glad to see that DL feels SAN is important enough of a station for them to make it, what, the 4th western domestic market (following LAX, LAS, SFO) to be newly-connected to their SEA focus operation. (Or did I miss a city?) DL has not added much of anything here since the very short-lived HNL flight of 2010.

On the negative side, I don't know what this means regarding AS's future in general, or specifically, about their SAN-Experiment. It appears that this is undoubtedly now a real battle between DL and AS...

It looks like DL is using 2 CR9s for the new service but I wouldn't be too surprised if at least some mainline a/c don't show up on the flights before the June inaugural of the route.

I continue to feel that 2014 is going to be an interesting year for us here in Sandy Eggo!

bb
 
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lindy field
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:38 pm

Wow, perhaps I ought to go into prophecy-making. I'm a bit disappointed that the new flights will be on CRJs, but I'm glad to see the add. I don't really see this addition as being much of a real threat to Alaska, except in that they might make a bit less money on their flights to Seattle. I'll be curious to see if there's much of a fare war on the SAN-SEA route.

In any case, I'd be hopeful to see the new Delta Connection flights operated with a more comfortable aircraft but time will tell. Let's see if there's a response from Alaska.
 
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting lindy field (Reply 90):
In any case, I'd be hopeful to see the new Delta Connection flights operated with a more comfortable aircraft but time will tell. Let's see if there's a response from Alaska.

Okay Lindy, so now let's see how your "717" wish pans out!   I don't even know if the a/c is in use on the w/c now but I would think DL could use a nice little sub-fleet of them based in the west flying up and down the coast. Seems to me like a natural evolution of this whole SEA-thing...

I'm waiting to see what AS does next as well. They've reacted in most of the other markets pretty swiftly with additional capacity plus mileage bonuses and with SAN being a monopoly for them -- unlike most of the other DL-adds -- I would expect to see a strong statement.

That being said, will we see AS simply add a flight or two between SAN and SEA next spring, or might we to see them kick back with, oh I don't know, SAN-ATL (DL/WN market), SAN-SLC (DL monopoly), SAN-MSP (DL/SY market), SAN-DTW (DL monopoly), etc.? This would play extremely nicely into their SAN-growth strategy while jabbing a sharp stick into the stronghold that DL currently has on those hub-markets from Lindbergh... (In fact one of the first things I thought of when I learned that OO's CR7 was going to sit on the ground at SAN for 6 hours between BOI flights, was why not zip it up to SLC and back for a nice midday roundtrip. Apparently that idea, like the majority of mine, didn't make it from my wish-list to the AS operating schedule. Damn!)

bb
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:08 am

It seemed Spirit was after AS when they added SAN-PDX and SAN-SJD. AS didn't
blink much when they added PDX, now, it looks like Delta wants to go after AS.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 91):
might we to see them kick back with, oh I don't know, SAN-ATL (DL/WN market),

AS adding a SAN-ATL would be a direct shot across DL's bow, but there's WN doing SAN-ATL.
I wonder if three airlines is overkill or will there be enough pax for all three airlines?

I have to agree with everyone else. Crjs from SAN-SEA? While AS is running 737s to SEA.
The one advantage I see is that DL can upgrade to 737s,MD-82s, A319/20s,maybe even an
occasional 757. Maybe DL is initially starting out with regional jets to test the waters on a
SAN-SEA route.
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PHX787
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:56 pm

Sorry to be late for the SAN party 

Love SAN but never been there....love it on flight sims  


How's the JL doing there? I hear periodic upgauges to a 772...is that thing filling up to the brim?
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hhslax2
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:49 pm

Sitting in the new UA lounge with a partially obstructed view (palm trees and what I'm guessing is considered art in the way), I noticed all the UA planes already sitting at the gates. Does UA have enough gates now that they don't need to tow planes to gates in the morning, or at least tow fewer planes to gates?
 
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SANFan
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:33 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 93):
How's the JL doing there? I hear periodic upgauges to a 772...is that thing filling up to the brim?

Welcome to the thread, PHX' I wish I knew what the loads are like; I haven't found anything with the JL numbers. I wasn't aware of T7 upgrades but that's nice to hear. If you can find out any specifics about LFs, etc., please let us know.

Quoting hhslax2 (Reply 94):
I noticed all the UA planes already sitting at the gates. Does UA have enough gates now that they don't need to tow planes to gates in the morning, or at least tow fewer planes to gates?

You should be looking out at the new RON parking for (I think) 10 a/c, right there behind the gates on the west side of T2W. I would assume there were lots of planes still parked there when you posted.

But yes, UA has access to about 7 gates with some overlap with DL, US and SY; T2W is CUTE so any of those gates is available to any of the cx there. And if they can't fit all of their mainline a/c in gates at night, the RON parking is about as convenient as it could be! (BTW, DL has about the same number of RONs as UA so there's a LOT of metal sitting at Lindbergh every night!)

Thanx for the post. From what I've seen,, the UA Club is pretty nice.

bb
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:20 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 93):
How's the JL doing there? I hear periodic upgauges to a 772..

The only upgrades I know about is the 772 they brought in as a substitute when the FAA
grounded the 787. Unless there has been upgrades since then. Next month is the first year
anniversary of JL in SAN. I'd like to know what the pax numbers are myself. We keep hearing
about the numbers from BA (which is good,) but nothing from JL yet.
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AM777LR
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:09 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 93):
I hear periodic upgauges to a 772...is that thing filling up to the brim?
Quoting SANFan (Reply 95):
I wasn't aware of T7 upgrades but that's nice to hear. If you can find out any specifics about LFs, etc., please let us know.
Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 96):
I wasn't aware of T7 upgrades but that's nice to hear. If you can find out any specifics about LFs, etc., please let us know.

Like mentioned in reply 96, it was only used for the months where the 787-8 what grounded. Unlike NH, who completely stopped service to SJC, JA continued operating but with the 772.


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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:46 am

I guess as long as JL keeps the Crane flying daily in and out of Lindbergh, we should assume the loads are good!  

Speaking of Speedbird, the LFs continue to be close to the mid-90s in the summer, less in the Jan-Feb timeframe but apparently doing okay by BA's standards. I've still seen nothing about reducing frequency (regularly) next winter, or down-gauging the equipment (to a 787?); in fact, there's so far been no announcement by BA of those day-by-day schedule reductions that we saw last winter.

I'd like to put the word out to anyone flying AS soon to please report on the status of the ex-UA gates in the West Rotunda (T1W.) Gates 11 thru 14 are officially "empty" these days although 12 thru 14 are certainly being used by AS; AFAIK, gate 11 is totally unused. I'm curious if there are any signs of a future occupant of gate 11, or any of the other "empty" gates (including AS.) Alaska remains mum about any plans regarding their SAN real estate...

Also, I assume gate 15 HAS been converted from UA to AS since that is now officially an AS gate. Or maybe all the gates are being converted to CUTE? Inquiring minds want to know...

While I'm at it, I'd love to know what the status of the east side of T2E is looking like (gates 24, 26 & 28.) There has been quite a bit of remodeling/reconstruction in that concourse lately and it might still be underway. The last I heard was the east wall of the concourse is being pushed out to make a real holding room for those 2 or 3 gates there, plus more room for concessions (of course.)

Also, a mobile-lounge dock (!) is being added -- right next to gate 22 I think -- with sterile access to FIS. I do believe the SDCRAA is optimistically preparing for increased int'l traffic and wants greater ability to accept multiple int'l arrivals. (They may have some other options for this as well but that would probably be a few years away.)

For example, now that Volaris is seemingly again getting serious about serving SAN, and is moving at least one of their flights (MEX) to afternoon timing, Mexico arrivals are getting kind of clumped around 3-5-ish, including AS, NK, and even Speedbird (now earlier op's in the winter.) Nice problem for SDIA to have to deal with, eh?

I don't know if either gate 24 or 26 is in use right now but would sure love a report from anyone flying AA, VX, F9 or NK these days. Thanks in advance.

bb
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Thread For SAN Fans - Volume I

Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:22 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 98):
a mobile-lounge dock (!) is being added -- right next to gate 22 I think -- with sterile access to FIS.

They are adding a mobile-lounge dock? I know they were talking about it. I
wonder how many mobile-lounges are they going to add? The good thing
about adding the mobile-lounges is that they could totally remodel the int'l area
without disrupting flights.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 98):
Volaris is seemingly again getting serious about serving SAN, and is moving at least one of their flights (MEX) to afternoon timing,

According to another post, Volaris' Toluca-SAN has just been approved, no date set yet.
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