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HNLPointShoot
Topic Author
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Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:34 am

Hawaii News Now is reporting that a Mokulele C208 made an emergency landing on Piilani Highway near Wailea on the south side of Maui earlier this evening. No injuries have been reported. Pictures of the aircraft on the highway have been popping up on Instagram.

Must've been interesting for people driving around there.   
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:26 am

Pretty crazy, considering all the terrain in that area. Glad it ended ok!

I'm sure this will change, but HNN doesn't even have it as its top story. Instead a story about sand going to a golf course is...nice to see a lack of sensationalism for once  
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
kevinkevin
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:37 am

Glad everyone is OK!!
 
T prop
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:41 am

...And this is one reason why I won't fly on part 135 single engine aircraft.
 
Flyer732
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:12 pm

Quoting T prop (Reply 3):
...And this is one reason why I won't fly on part 135 single engine aircraft.

Seriously? The Caravan engine is one of the safest and most reliable out there.
 
26point2
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:21 pm

Mokulele spends most of its time over open water. Might have turned out quite differently if the engine quit 5 minutes later.
 
vfw614
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:42 pm

Good to see that someone did not forget the chocks...  http://instagram.com/p/fwg0cFGaSW/#

On that picture, the aft fuselage looks damaged - optical illusion?
 
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c172akula
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:28 pm

Crazy, my dad is in Maui right now and just texted me about driving by this!
 
CairnterriAIR
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:16 am

Nice landing! And I'm sure once they get the problem fixed, they'll just take off and continue on to the airport.  
 
ah414211
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:17 am

Quoting T prop (Reply 3):
...And this is one reason why I won't fly on part 135 single engine aircraft.

So did you quit flying part 121 dual engine aircraft after US Airways 1549 landed in the Hudson?
 
RamblinMan
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:34 am

Quoting T prop (Reply 3):

...And this is one reason why I won't fly on part 135 single engine aircraft.

I agree, it's just too risky. And it's not like an A320 has ever landed in a river. And a 777 has never hit a seawall and burst into flames. And no 737 has ever overrun the runway in the snow. And an A330 has never disappeared over the Atlantic...
 
T prop
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:24 am

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 10):
I agree, it's just too risky. And it's not like an A320 has ever landed in a river. And a 777 has never hit a seawall and burst into flames. And no 737 has ever overrun the runway in the snow. And an A330 has never disappeared over the Atlantic...

Yeah, none of the ones you mention came to grief due to a single engine failure. I live here in Hawaii and I have worked for part 135 operators, I see what happens behind the scenes. I have personally witnessed a Fed Ex Feeder C-208 dead stick it in here at HNL. Now in my state we have another dead stick landing, this time off airport. The PT-6 in the Caravan is second in reliability only to an anvil, it's installed in a rugged reliable airframe but they do occasionally fail. Then you have the people who operate and maintain them, the rules they work under are less stringent and the aircraft don't have to meet the same safety standards as bigger aircraft.

You go ahead and put your family on one of these things if you want, I choose not too.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:58 am

Quoting T prop (Reply 3):
...And this is one reason why I won't fly on part 135 single engine aircraft.
Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 4):
Seriously? The Caravan engine is one of the safest and most reliable out there.
Quoting 26point2 (Reply 5):
Mokulele spends most of its time over open water. Might have turned out quite differently if the engine quit 5 minutes later
OK, so I showed up this morning at OGG for our Mokulele flight to MKK for a day trip, I grabbed my copy of the Maui news, and I see the plane picture on the front page, and we all still got on our full 9 seater (Pride of Maui) had a wonderful and scenic flight along the North end of both Maui and Molokai, we were on time and the crew was pleasant. Oh yeah we flew back on the 10 seater, Pride of Kapalua and again the same experience. It was the talk of the tarmac however. A rare occurrence indeed.

[Edited 2013-10-23 00:20:43]
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airportugal310
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:09 am

For all the interisland flying that occurs on a daily basis between Hawaiian, Mokulele, Island Air, Go!, etc etc....the rate of incidents/accidents is so extremely low it's not even a blip on any radar.

Let's keep it that way (knock on koa)  

I wouldn't hesitate to get on any of these airlines flights at all.

Except Go!, out of principal.
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
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Aesma
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:05 am

I'm not sure why someone thought mentioning twin engined airliners losing both was a good idea, we know pretty much all those incidents and they're EXTREMELY RARE. I would still take 3 or 4 engines any day, if given the choice, though.

Single engine small planes losing the one engine happens all the time, on the other hand (no, I don't have statistics).
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
bond007
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:55 pm

Quoting T prop (Reply 3):
..And this is one reason why I won't fly on part 135 single engine aircraft.

Well, I think the Part 135 and the Cessna 208 is irrelevant in your case.

You won't fly on any single-engine aircraft I assume, otherwise you picked the wrong end of the spectrum.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:50 pm

Quoting T prop (Reply 11):
Then you have the people who operate and maintain them, the rules they work under are less stringent and the aircraft don't have to meet the same safety standards as bigger aircraft.

You wouldn't fly on a 9 seat 121 aircraft either, because financially you couldn't afford to. Heck, even 19 seat planes need to be moved back to the 135 world, they just can't be made to work in the 121 environment.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
Alias1024
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:33 pm

Back about 12 years ago I worked for a part 135 carrier and we had a Caravan suffer an engine failure a few days after a poorly done inspection. The pilot landed the aircraft on a dirt landing strip carved into the middle of a pecan orchard. Thankfully it was a completely empty flight being operated under EAS, so I don't think it even made the local newspaper.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
Ttailsteve
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:43 pm

I prefer a single to a twin, tri or quad. The chances of having an engine failure on a twin are double the chances of a single and a quad is four time more likely to have a failure.

There are plenty of twins in service.....air charter ect...that become a a lead sled with the failure of one engine leading to an off airport landing anyway. Many twins....(not saying large commercial transports) cannot fly on one engine.
 
brilondon
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:02 pm

At least the pilot did the right thing and pulled over to the side of the road, put the hood up and waited for the auto club...if he had AAA.

[Edited 2013-10-23 10:03:22]
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
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PW100
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:09 pm

Quoting T prop (Reply 11):
Yeah, none of the ones you mention came to grief due to a single engine failure

Yeah, those crashes were much more comfortable on the occupants . . . .   
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
sankaps
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:09 pm

Quoting ttailsteve (Reply 18):
I prefer a single to a twin, tri or quad. The chances of having an engine failure on a twin are double the chances of a single and a quad is four time more likely to have a failure.

Sure, but at least you have other engines still running.

Quoting ttailsteve (Reply 18):
Many twins....(not saying large commercial transports) cannot fly on one engine.

Neither can single engine planes fly with one engine out!  
 
bond007
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:21 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 21):
Sure, but at least you have other engines still running.

We can argue this forever, but facts state otherwise.

A single engine turboprop is extremely safe. As discussed, many a 'safe' twin has crashed because of poor single engine performance and/or lack of pilot training on single-engine flying. It's a myth that they are any safer than a single, especially a turboprop.

This redundancy and "but I've still got 3 engines left" argument has been bashed to death also in the twin airliner vs quad airliner threads but we still fly twin engine airliners across the Atlantic, and the stats speak for themselves.

AFAIK twins are involved in more fatal accidents after an engine failure, as are singles.


“An engine failure related accident in a twin is four times more likely to cause
serious or fatal injuries.” (Richard Aarons citing an NTSB report in FAA document FAA-P-
8740-25 AFO-800-1079)



Jimbo

[Edited 2013-10-23 10:25:00]
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
sankaps
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:27 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 22):
A single engine turboprop is extremely safe.

I would not personally hesitate to get on a single-engine aircraft either, Jimbo. Was just pointing out a logical inconsistency in the reasoning that was offered for preferring single engines to multi-engines.  
 
bond007
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:32 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 23):
a logical inconsistency in the reasoning that was offered for preferring single engines to multi-engines
Quoting sankaps (Reply 21):
Neither can single engine planes fly with one engine out!

OK, but part of your logic doesn't fly (no pun intended!).

The reason that twin safety is not all it's advertised to be, is that actually a twin can often not fly very well with an engine out. A single with no engine arguably flies 'better', definitely easier to control and fly, and lands slower, than a twin with one engine out, hence why twins often crash (badly) with one engine out.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
sankaps
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:40 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 24):
The reason that twin safety is not all it's advertised to be, is that actually a twin can often not fly very well with an engine out. A single with no engine arguably flies 'better', definitely easier to control and fly, and lands slower, than a twin with one engine out, hence why twins often crash (badly) with one engine out.

Jimbo -- you know far more about this as a pilot than I do, so no argument there. However in the two engine case, wouldn't it then make sense to just switch the other engine off too given what you describe?
 
n6238p
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:44 pm

As a pilot in a 135 Caravan pax carrying operation, I have heard every comment in the world from passengers and passerbys alike. Basically what this comes down to is ignorance to the subject matter and the operation being performed. Never once up front have I thought "oh sh*t, this isn't safe". Even with heavy loads or weather. The Caravan is one of the easiest planes I have ever flown. Its ruggedness as well allows it in an emergency to land in less than ideal spots with ease. As for the whole single engine deal, are there people out there that would feel safer in a 40 year old 402 or a 5 year old PC-12?

This isn't a shot at Cape or anything, I'm just using this as example for the reasoning behind fear of my plane and it's "scary" PT6.
To actively root against anybody is just low, and I hope karma comes back at you with a vengeance
 
bond007
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:55 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 25):
However in the two engine case, wouldn't it then make sense to just switch the other engine off too given what you describe?

Well, if flown correctly, most twin engine aircraft handle fine on one engine, but they can be a lot to handle. There is lot more to do in a twin when an engine fails, as opposed to just trimming for best glide and finding a landing site (I'm simplifying I know).

Unfortunately twins don't fly as well as singles on zero engines, and and an engine out on takeoff can be bad - well on both singles and twins, but you still have the added complexity of the twin to deal with when you have no time to spare.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
highflier92660
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:23 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/23/us/hawaii-emergency-landing/

"the pilots pointed the plane sort of (down)..."

In the darkness as the pilots pointed the Cessna Grand Caravan sort of down- or about 95 KIAS and L/D Max- the terrified passengers, however briefly, probably would have longed for another trusty PT6 flailing away outside. That evening those passengers would have traded a tired old Beech 99 for that Cessna 208. You could print an article about the reliable wonders of the reverse flow PT6 turbine engine since 1961 and put it in the seat pocket, but if a plane ditches in the Pacific with 12 onboard it's a real tragedy. Instead N861MA will fly another day.

How fortunate to land at the intersection of the Piilani Hwy and Kilohano Drive with a fire station nearby.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:23 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 24):
The reason that twin safety is not all it's advertised to be, is that actually a twin can often not fly very well with an engine out. A single with no engine arguably flies 'better', definitely easier to control and fly, and lands slower, than a twin with one engine out, hence why twins often crash (badly) with one engine out.

Largely due to the complications of asymmetrical thrust. One can argue a twin with tail mounted engines performs better in engine out situations than does a twin with wing mounted engines.

I know a few crashes have occured from loss of lift and airspeed assocated with pilots struggling to find the right balance of thrust on the remaining engine versus fighting to keep the plane from slipping or rolling and losing altitude.

The same could be said for a quad with two engines out on the same side. I'd wager a trijet is actually the safest configuration from an engine-out perspective. With the loss of a wing engine you can throttle up the tail engine and reduce power to the remaining engine with a lower ratio of overall thrust coming from an asymmetrical source.

Of course, the AA DC10 crash comes to mind..but that was a combination of lowering thrust to both remaining engines (per procedure) as well as wing damage that disrupted airflow and thus lead to a wing stall.

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 28):
cnn.com

Sensationalist much? That article made me cringe.

[Edited 2013-10-23 11:32:30]
 
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jsnww81
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:50 pm

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 28):
How fortunate to land at the intersection of the Piilani Hwy and Kilohano Drive with a fire station nearby.

Fortunate indeed. The stretch of Piilani Highway through Kihei and Wailea is about the longest, straightest, widest road on the island. Imagine if the engine had cut out a bit later in the flight and they had try to land it on the south island road between Kanaio and Kaupo - a road so bad that car rental agreements are voided if you drive on it!
 
brilondon
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:17 am

Quoting T prop (Reply 3):
...And this is one reason why I won't fly on part 135 single engine aircraft

Yeah, there are much safer aircraft to fly although I don't know of any that fly where these ones fly.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
Passedv1
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:31 am

Is a single engine t/p fight safe?...sure

Is it safer than a twin engine recip flight?...probably about the same when you include Part 91 flight statistics.

Does it come close to being as safe as Part 121 multi-turbine?...I doubt it.
 
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usxguy
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:33 pm

Rumors around Alaska is that Mokulele is going to be one of the first non-Alaska carriers to be joining the Medallion Safety Foundation out of Alaska. (http://www.medallionfoundation.org) Apparently Mokulele and another Hawaiian operator have been talking with them.

Medallion Foundation was set-up to greatly enhance the safety culture & training of ALL employees - pilots, mechanics, ground staff. I know at one airline I was at, we operated pretty much at "super 135" regs, closer to 121, than anything. We had flight following, flight risk assessments for EVERY flight, constant audits, ASAP/NASA reporting for pilots, etc.

So if the management at Mokulele is really going to join Medallion, I think that speaks highly of their own internal safety culture. How many airlines want to voluntarily increase their procedures/regulations/policies?
xx
 
bond007
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:39 pm

Quoting usxguy (Reply 33):
we operated pretty much at "super 135" regs, closer to 121, than anything.

Yes, that's not uncommon for many Part 135 operators, which potentially increases safety, and possibly even helps with insurance rates etc.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
RamblinMan
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting T prop (Reply 11):
Yeah, none of the ones you mention came to grief due to a single engine failure.

Well no sh*t. It would, after all, be kind of hard for a twin-engine plane to lose all power because of a SINGLE engine failure, don'tcha reckon? One of the accidents I mentioned DID happen due to a DUAL engine failure.
 
HNLPointShoot
Topic Author
Posts: 238
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RE: Mokulele Emergency Landing On Maui Highway

Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:48 pm

I do like that someone has posted this sign on the highway where the plane landed. 

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