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seat1a
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Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:28 am

Good day from Seattle. New to posting on the A.net board, but long-time lurker. I'm not in the industry but have followed it since childhood. Great website.

Question: Looking at the seat map of A330-300 on the Virgin Atlantic website shows a total passenger capacity of 266 (Upper Class: 33, Prem Econ: 48, Econ: 185). The Airbus website states the A330-300 range at just over 5,500 NM with 300 seats. In fact, the Airbus sites' interactive range feature that allows you to drag a plane to a spot to see an area of possible destinations sure appears like HKG is possible. Can the VS configured A330-300 make the trip to NRT, SIN, HKG, and PVG without a payload penalty? If so, would VS be at some competitive disadvantage for deploying that aircraft (if it had enough of them!) to HKG or SIN?

Curious if there's an opportunity to rationalize the fleet and make a profit to those Asian cities with one single type of WB aircraft.

Thank you for any information or insight.

BTW, my username does not imply that I'm a seat snob, it's just on my last four flights on AS (to OGG, PSP, SAN, and IAH) I got an upgrade to First and each time it was 1A. Great flights, cabin and flight crews, too!
 
LH707330
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:41 am

First of all, welcome to a.net, there's a bunch of us here from Seattle (group happy hour someday?). To answer your question, real-world ranges are typically ~15% lower than the brochure ranges, so LHR-HKG would probably be a bit of a stretch, especially westbound against the headwinds.
 
seat1a
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:10 am

Thanks for the reply!

What are those lower ranges driven by? The difference between 300 seats and 266 seats seems substantial to boost range, but I guess that depends on the mix of seats, seat weight, cargo, winds aloft, etc? Is there an aircraft type for VS that could be one-size-fit's-all? I know airlines meticulously align demand with aircraft, but LHR seems like such a big premium market that a 777-300ER would work to JFK, BOS, LAX, SFO, MIA, IAD, PVG, HKG, NRT, DEL, GRU (dreaming!).
 
sailas
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:12 am

AY flies HEL-SIN which is a 343 and the trip is some 5750nm. They do have a333 in all sorts of different configurations ranging from 263 to 297 seats Y and J. They do fly cargo to this route alot, but im thinking the a333 in a 263 seat config should do it with cargo restrictions. I think AY's longest a333 route is HEL-ICN, they do this route with high pax planes. I think LTO and LTN? Length of the route 4079nm.
Airlines been on: AY, LX, SR, OS, SK, KF, EZY, FR, BA, LH, AF, TG, DC, FC, TK, KL, BT, CX, QR
 
sailas
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:16 am

Adding on that the longest a333 flight seems to be ICN-SEA at 5196nm with a OZ config of 275 or 290 seats.
Airlines been on: AY, LX, SR, OS, SK, KF, EZY, FR, BA, LH, AF, TG, DC, FC, TK, KL, BT, CX, QR
 
anstar
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:27 am

Quoting seat1a (Thread starter):
Can the VS configured A330-300 make the trip to NRT, SIN, HKG, and PVG without a payload penalty

Given the VS A30 fleet to not have any crew rest facilities you won't see them operating to the Far East. They would also take a big hit on the amount of cargo they haul between LHR & PVG/HKG etc.

The furthest you will see them fly is MAN-LAS, LHR-YVR and LHR-BOM. Even the BOM-LHR can sometimes have restrictions due to cargo.
 
seat1a
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:44 am

Thank you ... much appreciated.

Dare I ask this question: is there one plane that would work for them for just LHR routes given the cities they serve? Say B777-300ER in the following configuration (Upper Class: 44, Prem Econ: 44, Econ: 220). Would that configuration be considered evenly balanced between premium seating and economy seating; they appear to be a premium heavy airline. At least the marketing and advertising suggests they are.
 
migair54
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:30 am

Quoting seat1a (Reply 6):

Dare I ask this question: is there one plane that would work for them for just LHR routes given the cities they serve? Say B777-300ER in the following configuration (Upper Class: 44, Prem Econ: 44, Econ: 220). Would that configuration be considered evenly balanced between premium seating and economy seating; they appear to be a premium heavy airline. At least the marketing and advertising suggests they are.

I think B77W would have been a great plane for VS to replace all the 4 holers, in this page you can see all the airlines and different configurations by plane type, you can see from very low like NH to very high like AF (CIO type). Www.seatguru.com

The B777 could have done any single flight in VS network and many airlines are replacing B747 with them.
 
willzzz88
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:09 am

seat1a,

To simplify this a bit here's some thoughts I've learned on this site:

B77W is a great cargo hauler and very profitable if you can FILL the seats. This is similar to the B77E/B77L.

A330 is cheaper to operate (lower fuel burn) than the B777 series but has range limitations. The A330 is great on transatlantic and West Coast to NRT/ICN/PEK/PVG.

The B763/764 is cheaper to operate than the A330 (some Delta person on this site said the A333 and B764 have second lowest and lowest CASM (Cost for Available Seat Mile) for Delta.

There is also cargo demand and its a whole complex equation which is kept secret.

It's all about fuel burn and demand. A prime example of this is Delta Airlines, they have 744, 77E, 77L, A332/3 and 767's due to their merger with Northwest. This allows them to optimize payload/range and demand worldwide. Their recent order for the A330 shows this flexibility. The A330 for Delta is cheaper to operate than the B777 on South America and Europe routes because it does not need the range. The A330 can also be used on West-Coast to North-east Asia (NRT/NGO/KIX/ICN/PEK/PVG/HKG (if done from SEA). Delta's recent Seattle growth of SEA-HKG is on A332 and SEA-PVG is on 763 for example.) Delta needs the 777 range for long range flying to the Southern Hemisphere countries that are the last ruminants of the British Empire (Australia and South Africa, Dubai) but NON-STOP from the US. They used to fly US-India non-stop but pulled out due to yields. The rest is a mix and match based on demand.
 
opethfan
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:28 am

Quoting anstar (Reply 5):

VS are using A343s on LHR-YVR.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:31 am

Firstly in the case of Virgin Altantic the airline has been in decline for a number of years.

The ten A333 second gen frames have been used to replace number of early A343 and several over weight A346 frames, and there has been a net reduction in overall fleet size.

Virgin South and East Asia services today consist of just Shanghai, Narita and Hong Kong (going onto Sydney).
Southern Africa is a daily Johannesburg and northern Winter seasonal to Cape Town

All these routes require the deployment of the A340 variants because of range and performance.

The remaining four A343 frames work Shanghai (2 frames), Dubai (1 frame) and Newark (1 frame day time Eastbound flight)

Currently the ten second generation A333 fleets consists of 9 operational (1 on MX) with 8 at LHR and 1 each at Gatwick and Manchester. The Manchester frame will move South to LHR next week as a replacement for a further A346 being removed from the fleet.

These 333 frame operate mainly to the Eastern Seaboard and to Delhi and Mumbai from LHR. From Gatwick one supplements the leisure fleet 744 services to Florida and the Caribbean Isles. The Manchester frame is similarly used on leisure routes to Las Vegas and Orlando.

As it stands further A340s will leave the fleet over the next 24 months or so and the replacements will be near frame for frame with B789 frames.

[Edited 2013-10-24 02:34:10]
 
Chaostheory
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:37 am

Quoting seat1a (Thread starter):
Can the VS configured A330-300 make the trip to NRT, SIN, HKG, and PVG without a payload penalty?

All of the VS A330s have a MTOW of 233t which means a max payload range of around 4000nm.
 
ferpe
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:30 pm

Hi seat1a, welcome!

Great first post and your question is very valid. Here a bit more on why those 15% range disappears in practical use:

It is a bit like in the car industry, you know that empty weight and mpg which is shown on the brochure you get at the dealer and that you never see in practice? The aircraft industry is no better  Wow!  , here goes (an hour of fuel cost you grosso modo 500nm in range (470 for a 333 to be exact):

- the range is for a minimum equipped aircraft, when VS is finished with the options list they have lost about 30 minutes flight time (3 tonnes) on better and more premium seats etc.

- then they staff with a real crew (the framers a minimum FAA compliant crew) which also carries on magazines, blankets, catering and you need water for the WCs and the galleys, another 30 minutes is consumed.

- then the framers only load pax+bags for their brochure range figure, they count 95kg per each. They also don't count the cargo cans (LD3) that store the baggage, you need 16 and those cost you another 15 minutes (1.6 tonnes).

So we have lost 1.15 hours of 12 and we have no cargo loaded, we need that for the remaining 16 LD3 positions or we make no money on the trip:

- Load them and you are back another 1 hour 20 minutes (8 tonnes).

- Then the framers only count an alternate which is 200nm away, make that 400nm and you loose another 20 minutes (2t).

So if there is no headwind we now comfortable fly 9 hours at 470 kts which is 4200nm. So your down a whopping 23% but that is life, what is the real life mpg of your car compared to the brochure?? 

[Edited 2013-10-24 09:54:39]
Non French in France
 
jwhite9185
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
Virgin South and East Asia services today consist of just Shanghai, Narita and Hong Kong

Pretty sure they've only ever served those destinations in Asia?

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
The Manchester frame will move South to LHR next week as a replacement for a further A346 being removed from the fleet.

Which A346 is going next?
 
ferpe
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:46 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 12):
So your down a whopping 23% but that is life, what is the real life mpg of your car compared to the brochure??

I did forgot one standard thing (I might have forgot more ), VS needs to make sure that the worst horse in the stable (due to dirt, wear and tear on airframe and engine internals) also makes the destination, therefore they add an extra en-route fuel safety margin of 3-4% on top of the regulatory 5% which the OEMs use in their calculations (which is for errors in wind predictions etc), so you see why we land on that practical 4000nm that post 11 gave you.
Non French in France
 
Boeing74741R
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:40 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 5):
The furthest you will see them fly is MAN-LAS, LHR-YVR and LHR-BOM.
Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
Currently the ten second generation A333 fleets consists of 9 operational (1 on MX) with 8 at LHR and 1 each at Gatwick and Manchester. The Manchester frame will move South to LHR next week as a replacement for a further A346 being removed from the fleet.

These 333 frame operate mainly to the Eastern Seaboard and to Delhi and Mumbai from LHR. From Gatwick one supplements the leisure fleet 744 services to Florida and the Caribbean Isles. The Manchester frame is similarly used on leisure routes to Las Vegas and Orlando.

The A330 hasn't operated MAN-LAS for some time. The only MAN route it has opreated in the last 12 months is the daily VS075 MAN-MCO and 076 return, with the additional MCO flights, LAS and BGI being 747-400. As an aside, MAN-LAS has now gone seasonal and will not resume until March 2014.

As you say rutankrd, from next week the A330 will move off the MAN-MCO route and will revert back to daily 744s, including next year when 2 744s will be based at MAN - 1 for the daily 075/076, 1 for the LAS, BGI and extra MCO flights.

In addition, one of the LGW-MCO routes that saw the A330 regularly has also reverted back to a 744. The only 'leisure' routes that will see the A330 is various routes from LGW to the Caribbean as part of a re-write of the timetable to introduce more non-stop flights instead of the multi-stop routes with 744s as present, with all other A330s operating out of LHR.
 
Kuja
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:30 pm

I apologise if this is slightly off-topic, but I wondered whether it could have made sense for VS to add some A332s as well as the A333s. That would presumably have allowed them to replace the remaining A343s and maybe operate some of the A346 routes as well without much in the way of payload restrictions? I imagine that they must have evaluated this and decided that the B789 would serve that purpose better and that a stopgap was not warranted.
 
UALWN
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:41 pm

Quoting sailas (Reply 4):
Adding on that the longest a333 flight seems to be ICN-SEA at 5196nm with a OZ config of 275 or 290 seats.

ICN-SEA is actually 4533 nm long. Next summer, I'm scheduled to fly IST-SIN on a TK A333, and that's 4681 nm long. We shall see...
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/350/380
 
seat1a
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:22 am

Great information and feedback.

So VS is optimizing the fleet they have for their routes similar to what DL is doing (internationally). When the 787-9's come in, it appears they will be opening new routes and swapping it on existing routes. I found the following PDF just searching for VS 787-9's:

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/tridion/images/787nov_tcm4-523607.pdf

Couple other comments/questions:
- Kuja: Was thinking the same thing; fleet mix of A330-200s and -300's for a more standardized fleet to cover all routes. Did BMI ever think about his strategy? In other words, sell/send back it's NB fleet, and buy more A330's for international routes from LHR (assuming they had a solid business plan in place)? I guess this would put them a third (or distant third?) as a LHR long hauler? (I remember they flew MAN-ORD/IAD)
- Why does BA and VS operate their Caribbean destinations (BGI, et.al.) only from Gatwick? Is it too expensive to operate from LHR? Or is the leisure market in the UK all from one airport?
- Rutankrd: What would you consider the top three or top five things VS should do to thrive and correct that slide?

Thanks!
 
LH707330
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:35 am

Quoting ferpe (Reply 12):
So if there is no headwind we now comfortable fly 9 hours at 470 kts which is 4200nm. So your down a whopping 23% but that is life, what is the real life mpg of your car compared to the brochure??

I think that's a bit harsh, there are regular 10+ hour A333 flights, but your description is very thorough. One thing I'd add is to this list is that ATC is often less forgiving than the brochure assumptions (hold times, sub-optimal step climbs, etc.).

Incidentally, I'm beating brochure spec on my car  
 
anstar
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:26 am

Quoting opethfan (Reply 9):
VS are using A343s on LHR-YVR.

They also occasionally used the A330 on the route in the first season as well as the second season.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
Firstly in the case of Virgin Altantic the airline has been in decline for a number of years.

And I guess that is now inr everse as they are due to be back in profit this year and have DL as a big backer now and the new JV.

Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 15):

The A330 hasn't operated MAN-LAS for some time

It operated earlier this year... the winter saw frequent A30 MAN-LAS operations.
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:13 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 17):
ICN-SEA is actually 4533 nm long. Next summer, I'm scheduled to fly IST-SIN on a TK A333, and that's 4681 nm long. We shall see...


Thats correct. TK has been sending the A333 to SIN for a while. Not sure if it comes without payload restrictions or not, but should be close to max range for that aircraft with meaningful payload?

Quoting seat1a (Thread starter):
BTW, my username does not imply that I'm a seat snob, it's just on my last four flights on AS (to OGG, PSP, SAN, and IAH) I got an upgrade to First and each time it was 1A. Great flights, cabin and flight crews, too!


Welcome to a.net.
I have the same favourite seat, 1A, no matter what aircraft I am in. Its particular good on SQ though.  
 
seat1a
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:20 am

Thanks, Asiaflyer ... I'm sure it is on SQ!!! Never had the pleasure to fly with them, but hope to one day. Mostly Cathay Pacific and Qantas when I was traveling over there.

All the miles I racked up with Alaska partners has paid off. But I like 2F on the 737-800's. Perfect window placement.
 
UALWN
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:35 am

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 21):
TK has been sending the A333 to SIN for a while.

And IST-SIN is 148 nm longer than ICN-SEA, making it the longest A333 route in the world. So it seems that wikipedia is wrong (or outdated) in this respect. Surprise, surprise.

OK, I just fixed it.

[Edited 2013-10-25 01:43:05]
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/350/380
 
willd
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:20 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
Virgin South and East Asia services today consist of just Shanghai, Narita and Hong Kong (going onto Sydney).

Just consist of? That makes it sound like they had a plethora of Asian services and have dropped them. VS have only ever flown to NRT (started late 80s), HKG (started early 90s but at one point was double daily for a year or IIRC) and PVG (started late 90s early 2000s). The SYD flight was added at a later stage. Back in the day- late 80s- there was a codeshare with MH into KUL and of course they did codeshare with SQ.

Its fine to bash VS (everyone is entitled to their own opinion) but the least you could do is not spin your statements into implying something that isnt true.
 
sevenheavy
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:26 am

"Firstly in the case of Virgin Altantic the airline has been in decline for a number of years"

The ten A333 second gen frames have been used to replace number of early A343 and several over weight A346 frames, and there has been a net reduction in overall fleet size"

Not true.

6 A346 and 1 B744 have been removed from the fleet. Total seats 2299. There are no plans to retire any more aircraft. The last A346 (G-VATL) left months ago.

10 A333 have been added. Total seats 2660 (it was actually more than that for the last two years, as until recently 3 of the A333 had 314 seats)

I make that an increase of 361 seats. Or about 15% give or take.

In addition, the B744 leisure fleet were reconfigured with 6 extra seats. Not much, but it does marginally add to the total capacity.

Of course, that's not including Little Red either.
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:58 am

Quoting willd (Reply 24):
Just consist of? That makes it sound like they had a plethora of Asian services and have dropped them. VS have only ever flown to NRT (started late 80s), HKG (started early 90s but at one point was double daily for a year or IIRC) and PVG (started late 90s early 2000s). The SYD flight was added at a later stage. Back in the day- late 80s- there was a codeshare with MH into KUL and of course they did codeshare with SQ.

Its fine to bash VS (everyone is entitled to their own opinion) but the least you could do is not spin your statements into implying something that isnt true.

The statement and wordings are accurate.

Your reading into what was not written is your own problem.

My emphasis is rather that many people have a false perception of the size and shape of VS.

Personally I have no beef with them - They add a level of competition on the North Atlantic, however the brand is somewhat confused. There are effectively two business units LHR mainline business routes, and a separate quasi Tour/Disney affiliate operating from LGW/MAN to Florida/LAS and selected Caribbean Isles.

Indeed many of the VS ventures have simply not achieved their goals - East and West Africa in particular and the Indian Ocean Honeymooners specials have gone.
As it happens my last VS flight was to Nairobi in September 2011.

Happily I believe DL as a major share and stakeholder has more of a grip and influence on the future direction of VS than SQ ever showed.

Consolidated schedules to JFK and an extra DTW (on Delta metal but using a transferred VS slot pair) from Northern summer 2014 are the start.

I believe DL will ensure VS remains a viable brand on the North Atlantic fortifying the London O&D marketplace and combined can drive up the important yield segment without adverse damage to the AF/KL/DL hubs on the mainland.

Its always good to here that businesses are moving back towards profitability and certainly the London -US market in particular has been on an upwards trend for some quarters especially in the premium classes (Even with APD)

i remain more than a little concerned for the future of the leisure oriented operations - I can still see these being sold off for a profit and thereby to fortify the bottom-line.
 
ferpe
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:20 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 19):
I think that's a bit harsh, there are regular 10+ hour A333 flights,

Sure, but not with all 32 LD3 positions filled and 100% load factor. Load factor is often at 70-80% and then you regulate with the cargo. Cargo is 1.5 hours worth ie the frame is a 4000-5000nm runner, leave some more seats empty then the usual 20% and you reach 5000+  .
Non French in France
 
LH707330
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:10 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 27):
Sure, but not with all 32 LD3 positions filled and 100% load factor. Load factor is often at 70-80% and then you regulate with the cargo. Cargo is 1.5 hours worth ie the frame is a 4000-5000nm runner, leave some more seats empty then the usual 20% and you reach 5000+ .

Every time I'm on LH490/491 it's full to the gills, but I suppose they're leaving cargo behind then, at least westbound in the winter (10:15 air time). You've clearly got a better understanding of this than I have, so I'll trust your numbers.
 
ferpe
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 28):
You've clearly got a better understanding of this than I have

Not really, I have listened carefully to those that really DOES understand this better then I, mostly Zeke  .
Non French in France
 
Boeing74741R
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:24 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 20):
It operated earlier this year... the winter saw frequent A30 MAN-LAS operations.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware they had continued to operate MAN-LAS, but then I hadn't really been paying too much attention to that route.

Quoting Kuja (Reply 16):

I apologise if this is slightly off-topic, but I wondered whether it could have made sense for VS to add some A332s as well as the A333s. That would presumably have allowed them to replace the remaining A343s and maybe operate some of the A346 routes as well without much in the way of payload restrictions? I imagine that they must have evaluated this and decided that the B789 would serve that purpose better and that a stopgap was not warranted.

I think you've sort of answered your own question with your last sentence. It's worth nothing though that the 787-9's were ordered first in 2007 and the A333s announced 2 years later.

I'm presuming the well-documented delays to the 787 combined with VS deciding against taking its remaining A340-600's on order made them look at the A330. I suspect even after the 787s are delivered the A330 will remain.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 26):
Personally I have no beef with them - They add a level of competition on the North Atlantic, however the brand is somewhat confused. There are effectively two business units LHR mainline business routes, and a separate quasi Tour/Disney affiliate operating from LGW/MAN to Florida/LAS and selected Caribbean Isles.

i don't know about being confused. To a certain extent, I'd argue BA's long-haul operations are the same - LHR forming the majority of the routes and mostly business-orientated, with LGW being leisure-orientated and competing with VS on a few of these routes.

In fact, I'd argue BD was a more confused brand than BA and VS combined. Case in point, look at how their long-haul ops was ditched when they decided to re-allocate their A330s from MAN to LHR despite being able to operate long-haul out of LHR post-Open Skies rules.

That said, the continued deferment of the A380 order does suggest an unclear fleet strategy, even though a lot has changed since they were first ordered way back in 2001. Even if they don't take the A380s in the end, their oldest 744 will be 26 years old come the end of the decade and there will be more efficient options than the A340s.
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:04 pm

I'm just wondering, how much fuel does Virgin save per flight by switching from the A340-600 to the A330-300? And what is happening to their A346s? I remember landing at Heathrow and seeing a brand new one there, just 10 years or so ago. I guess they regret making that choice whereas BA went for the 777s.
 
ferpe
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:44 am

RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:39 pm

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 31):
how much fuel does Virgin save per flight by switching from the A340-600 to the A330-300?

I have the numbers but it is not a very fair comparison as the 346 carries so much more. On a 6000nm trip the 333 is at its max theoretical range and can only take pax+bags, 28t. The 346 is then at it's max payload range (still theoretical ie OEMs spec data), ie it can load 65t pax and cargo. The 333 uses 77t fuel, the 346 104t. Hour consumption is about 8.3t vs 6t once again spec values which should mean costindex 100 IIRC.
Non French in France
 
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RE: Question About Range/Capacity VS A330-300

Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:00 pm

Slightly off topic, would VS have an average revenue amount for J, C, and Y and average cargo revenue for it's LHR flights? I assume it has an fully-accounted cost per each flight, too, to know what flights, on average, are profitable?

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