flyguy1
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CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:28 am

http://www.ausbt.com.au/china-southe...to-launch-new-york-flights-in-2014

According to this article, CZ will start service to JFK sometime in 2014. Nice addition, will fit in nice with the DL hub.
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TWA85
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:54 am

This route will definitely go head to head with CX's JFK-HKG route. Is there a lot of traffic between New York and southern China?
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:14 am

Awesome to see some new tails presumeably at T4! I'm guessing it will start out at 4-5x weekly?
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BestWestern
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:27 am

Alongside serving Guangzhou and the greater pearl river delta, This route will also be an affordable and quality way of visiting south east Asian markets, as CZ offer a quality product on modern aircraft.

Come 2016, a modern terminal will match the on board improvements.

China Southern is a totally different airline in comparison to five years ago.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
dc1030cf
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:43 am

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 1):

This route will definitely go head to head with CX's JFK-HKG route. Is there a lot of traffic between New York and southern China?

I don't think CZ will get many of Cathay's F, J and Y+ customers. They may be able to grab some Y traffics if the price is low enough. Most of which may very well be those presently flying cheap carriers like UO and HX . CZ also does not have frequancies like CX

[Edited 2013-10-25 21:45:25]
 
BestWestern
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:49 am

Quoting dc1030cf (Reply 4):
I don't think CZ will get many of Cathay's F, J and Y+ customers. They may be able to grab some Y traffics if the price is low enough. Most of which may very well be those presently flying cheap carriers like UO and HX . CZ also does not have frequancies like CX

UO flies to JFK?


The CZ J cabin is fantastic.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:22 am

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 1):
This route will definitely go head to head with CX's JFK-HKG route. Is there a lot of traffic between New York and southern China?

Uhhhhhhhhhhh CAN is a different market than HKG, even if they are nearby.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
dc1030cf
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:43 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 5):

Quoting dc1030cf (Reply 4):
I don't think CZ will get many of Cathay's F, J and Y+ customers. They may be able to grab some Y traffics if the price is low enough. Most of which may very well be those presently flying cheap carriers like UO and HX . CZ also does not have frequancies like CX

UO flies to JFK?


The CZ J cabin is fantastic.

Hong Kong Airlines (UO) does not fly any long haul routes which includes JFK. (Their once pride and joy HKG-LGW service had a very short lifespan and failed miserably) I was only pointing out current UO customers might very well be those interested in CZ's JFK flight if price is low enough. I flew CZ-328 late Aug in J. The flat bed seat was indeed comfortable (a lot better than the CI product). The on board service was good but definitely not "International" enough (ice cubes put into beer, assuming all Asians are Chinese, etc) Cathay's J-product on the other hand is probably the best in the world and at least 1.5 generations beyond CZ. .
 
behramjee
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:44 pm

I dont know what the schedule would look like but I would guess to ensure maximum connectivity with DL via JFK, it would look some what like this:

CZ XXX Dep CAN 0130 Arr JFK 0545
CZ XXX Dep JFK 1100 Arr CAN 1515

Does anyone know what the proposed configuration of CZ's B77Ws shall be?
 
flyguy1
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:22 pm

Also interesting to note, is that London will be going double daily. Interesting to see if this will be into LHR, or perhaps LGW?
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fly828
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:56 pm

to me, the interesting part would be what equipment CZ is going to use on this route, new 773 on order, or possibly A380? CZ has 5 A380s in total order ( 3 have been in service), and it has been some difficulty fitting A380 in existing routes to be profitable. If CZ uses A380 to fly JFK route, it will be an advantage over CX in my opinion.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting fly828 (Reply 10):
to me, the interesting part would be what equipment CZ is going to use on this route, new 773 on order, or possibly A380?

The article in the OP states that it will be the new 77Ws.
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Prost
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:46 pm

If CZ can match US carriers (if they haven't already) I can see this route being pretty popular. On flights I've worked to HKG in the past (admittedly going on 3 years now) many of my customers were going in to Guangzhou and surrounding areas to visit manufacturing, there was very little to no business being done in HKG.

If they can eventually match the service levels of SQ and CX, watchout. We'd have a juggernaut of an airline here. The next decade will be interesting to watch with the Chinese carriers to see if they can hone their service culture. My bet is they'll at least get close.
 
dc1030cf
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting fly828 (Reply 10):

to me, the interesting part would be what equipment CZ is going to use on this route, new 773 on order, or possibly A380? CZ has 5 A380s in total order ( 3 have been in service), and it has been some difficulty fitting A380 in existing routes to be profitable. If CZ uses A380 to fly JFK route, it will be an advantage over CX in my opinion.

When I flew on CZ-328 in late Aug, the 380 had a very healthy load factor. Most people however were heading to CAN. I doubt very many went on to HKG. The same may very well be for the JFK market. Cathay therefore won't be affected much. The main reason remains that CZ doesn't have the needed frequencies to compete effectively for those high yield customers with CX.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:49 pm

What is the demand? I haven't been hearing good things about CZ's long haul route profitability. Anyone who has data is encouraged to provide links/supply numbers.

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 1):
This route will definitely go head to head with CX's JFK-HKG route.

Ouch... CX has frequency which will pull the premium passengers. Frequency also allows superior connections... This will make it tough for CZ.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
China Southern is a totally different airline in comparison to five years ago.

That is good to hear. I went to check their Skytrax rating was pleasantly surprised to see it had risen to 4 stars!:
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/c_sthrn.htm

It looks like CZ could do even better (5*) if their catering was more consistent (after reading the reviews) as well as making the AVOD more consistent across their fleet. But AFAIK, they've improved enough of their other service that catering consistency is their remaining 'weak link.' Note: I've never flown them, but I find going through online reviews often gives the complete picture.

Lightsaber
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N62NA
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:54 pm

Nice news for JFK.

I wonder if Star Alliance competitor Air China will launch service to the EWR Star Alliance hub?
 
flyguy1
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:20 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 15):
I wonder if Star Alliance competitor Air China will launch service to the EWR Star Alliance hub?

UA handles EWR-China services.
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N62NA
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:27 pm

Quoting flyguy1 (Reply 16):

UA handles EWR-China services.

Oops, and I just checked and Air China is yet another Star Alliance airline that serves JFK and not the Star Alliance hub at EWR.
 
BestWestern
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RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:20 pm

CZ is already Asia's largest airline from a pax flown perspective.

Their onboard hard product on long haul is excellent, and as ever with Chinese service industries, their soft product is trying to catch up. Give them another 18months and it will be there.

Whilst not at a CX service standard, they exceed in overall terms AF / KL / LH service levels for the J cabin. However, from a value for money perspective, they beat virtually everyone as the old perception of outdated aircraft remains and yields remain depressed.

They deserve their four star ranking in my opinion. For all we laugh at skytrax, in china it has given the airlines a structure and a process to improve, and there is rigour in it. China Eastern is still stuck on three stars, and deservedly so, but are using the skytrax formula to improve standards. It is beginning to show, even at MU.

Still don't get how Air Hong Kong's gatwick to Hong Kong former passengers will be using a JFK to Guangzhou service though.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
dc1030cf
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:27 pm

RE: CZ To Start JFK

Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:11 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 18):

CZ is already Asia's largest airline from a pax flown perspective.

Their onboard hard product on long haul is excellent, and as ever with Chinese service industries, their soft product is trying to catch up. Give them another 18months and it will be there.

Whilst not at a CX service standard, they exceed in overall terms AF / KL / LH service levels for the J cabin. However, from a value for money perspective, they beat virtually everyone as the old perception of outdated aircraft remains and yields remain depressed.

They deserve their four star ranking in my opinion. For all we laugh at skytrax, in china it has given the airlines a structure and a process to improve, and there is rigour in it. China Eastern is still stuck on three stars, and deservedly so, but are using the skytrax formula to improve standards. It is beginning to show, even at MU.

Still don't get how Air Hong Kong's gatwick to Hong Kong former passengers will be using a JFK to Guangzhou service though.

CZ does have a very modern, young and well equipped fleet. They are also working hard to "internationalize" their in-flight service. However that will take much longer than 18 months even if CX and SQ stand still and do nothing to improve their already excellent products. CZ and to a degree HU, are my preferred carriers when travelling domestically in China. Surely not on long haul international flights (the same goes for most US carriers)..

BTW I don't recall LD ever served LGW-HKG. Kindly enlighten me on this please.

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