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Gonzalo
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Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:35 pm

I don't want to be offensive with this guy, but..... what on Earth was he thinking ???

Apparently something like "Hi, I would like to check in my bag with rifles, guns and ammunition for the flight"...    

From the article in the link :

"A Tennessee man faces six felony weapons charges after police found two rifles, two handguns and high-capacity ammunition in luggage he was trying to check at New York's John F Kennedy Airport on Saturday, an official said."


http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1382918634.html

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PHLapproach
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:47 pm

And of all places to do it, NY?!?! What a dope.
 
rcair1
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:02 pm

Based on what is in the article, this would have been legal in most places in the US. People check guns all the time. The loaded 22 is problematic - but often the word "loaded' is misused.

Not like this guy was some terrorist or nut. He was checking his guns, just like he is supposed to do.
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Gonzalo
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:18 pm

Quoting PHLapproach (Reply 1):
Not like this guy was some terrorist or nut. He was checking his guns, just like he is supposed to do.

I could, making an effort with my imagination and thinking in a Shot Tournament, Hunters Meeting or something like that, understand the guns/rifles being checked in.... but why try to check ammunition ?? Ammunition is basically an explosive material ... ( Trying to check ammunition in the baggage is just crazy in my view, although I'm very far from being an expert on weapons....)

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Mir
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:58 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 2):
Based on what is in the article, this would have been legal in most places in the US. People check guns all the time. The loaded 22 is problematic - but often the word "loaded' is misused.

If it was loaded, then he deserves everything that's coming to him, and it'll be a good thing that it took place in NYC, where the laws are strict about such things.

And I'm not really sure how "loaded" could be misused here - there should be no ammunition in the gun at all, whether actually in the chamber or just in the magazine. I do think that NYC's laws create an unnecessary problem for travelers with guns who are trying to do the right thing, but if you're trying to check a loaded gun, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy.

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CXfirst
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:59 pm

I don't really see the problem. I work ramp here in Australia, and we regularly have checked in weapons and ammunition. As long as they are packed correctly (in a locked case, not loaded, etc.), there is no problem here. Even if checking in weapons is illegal in NYC, I could easily understand people not knowing that, as it is legal many other places. And if there were other problems, like not packed correctly, then the passenger should not have his bag loaded, end of story.

The only reason this should have ever gotten any attention, IMO, is if he waved the weapon around the terminal, created a scene, or tried to check in illegal weapons.

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rcair1
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:52 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 3):
but why try to check ammunition ?? Ammunition is basically an explosive material

There are lots of reasons.
- You need it where you are going and may not be able to buy it?
- It may be specialized
- It may be custom load's

And why not. Bullets, if properly packed, don't 'explode' or go off spontaneously and even bullets exploding in a fire are not a huge hazard because they are not chambered. The chamber of the weapon is what gives the structure required to actually make the bullet "fire".

BTW - Bullets in magazines are not a hazard. Magazines are designed to carry bullets safely - probably more safely than the box.

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
If it was loaded, then he deserves everything that's coming to him

"Loaded" may mean in the magazine, not chambered. I've even see it interpreted as loosely as "in a magazine in the vicinity of the weapon, by courts." I do agree that if there was a bullet chambered that is a big problem. A chambered bullet means the weapon can fire and that is life threatening. I also think there should not be any bullets in any magazine in the weapon. Loaded mags in the bag should not be a problem.

BUT - this is completely irrelevant. The charges were not related to having the weapons loaded (if they were) - it was to do with having them in his possession in New York.

He was trying to do the right thing - it appears. As required by TSA and the airlines he declared the weapons in his bag. We see that ALL the time.

The big problem is non-consistent laws. In the state I live in there were inconsistent laws for concealed carry. You could be perfectly legal in one county and not in another. The good news is the sheriff's (who are responsible for issuing concealed carry) got together and worked with the state legislature to create a consistent law.

Frankly - I think there must be more to the story. Do ticket agents in NYC have to call the police if somebody checks a bag with a weapon? I'd suspect no - they probably don't. So - what triggered the issue?
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:04 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 6):
The big problem is non-consistent laws. In the state I live in there were inconsistent laws for concealed carry. You could be perfectly legal in one county and not in another. The good news is the sheriff's (who are responsible for issuing concealed carry) got together and worked with the state legislature to create a consistent law.

Exactly right. NY has unconstitutional gun control laws and routinely arrests visitors despite them having valid gun licenses from other places and only carrying weapons in locked cases with no intent to use them when arrested. Federal law should supersede state laws when dealing with federally regulated commerce and constitutional issues, but New York doesn't think so. In this case, federal law allows checking weapons in luggage, air travel is federally regulated commerce, but NY decides to assert local laws and claim they applied before the federally sanctioned act occurred.

New Jersey is similar. People have been arrested for simply driving the through the state with locked weapons in the trunk and a valid license to own the weapons.
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prosa
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:04 pm

One of the firearms had defaced serial numbers, which is a federal crime.
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:06 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 6):
Frankly - I think there must be more to the story. Do ticket agents in NYC have to call the police if somebody checks a bag with a weapon? I'd suspect no - they probably don't. So - what triggered the issue?

Interesting thought. Ordinarily I would think it's contrary to the Airline's best interests to make a police report. I suspect there is more to the story than has been reported.
 
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:44 pm

Quoting prosa (Reply 8):
One of the firearms had defaced serial numbers

Obscured, not defaced. There is a difference. Nobody will get arrested and charged with a felony for this unless there is some other crime involved. Not when the paint can be removed and the serial number easily revealed.

A law looking for a criminal to apprehend?
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:01 am

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
high-capacity ammunition

What is high-capacity ammunition?    

Whether you're pro or anti gun I always hate seeing someone making an honest mistake and get the book thrown at them. He didn't try to sneak through security or anything, he went to the counter and tried to check them. They shouldn't have been loaded (whether one in the chamber or just in magazines) and he should have been familiar with the gun laws, but it's still unfortunate IMO. That goes with other things that aren't guns... some one is just ignorant of the law and tries to do the right thing but ends up getting in big trouble.

We all need to make sure we do our homework, this guy doesn't seem violent and I doubt he knowingly broke the law
 
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:55 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11):
What is high-capacity ammunition?

It is high capacity magazine, not ammunition. The number of shells in the mag exceeds some legal number.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11):
this guy doesn't seem violent and I doubt he knowingly broke the law

But thanks to NY's gun laws - we now have him charged with 6 felony's.
BTW - if you are convicted of a felony, you cannot own a gun in the US.

Unless there is something else to the story - in a fair court - he would beat the felony conviction, but may have to plead to something less in order to avoid going to court, which is very expensive. BTW - the guns are probably confiscated and destroyed.

This is like the "gun free zones". Do you really think a crazy person bent on shooting people will stop when they see a "gun free zone" sign? Of course not - they well say - gee, nobody here will fight back.
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:06 am

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 2):
The loaded 22 is problematic - but often the word "loaded' is misused.

The report that I read said the rifle had 1 round in the chamber. I think that qualifies as loaded.
A firearm can only be checked if it is completely absent of ammunition and locked in a hard sided case.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 12):
But thanks to NY's gun laws - we now have him charged with 6 felony's.

By entering an airport with a loaded firearm he would have been subject to at least 1 of those felonies regardless of what city or state he was in.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 6):
Frankly - I think there must be more to the story. Do ticket agents in NYC have to call the police if somebody checks a bag with a weapon? I'd suspect no - they probably don't. So - what triggered the issue?

The procedure is when a passenger checks their firearm in law enforcement is called to verify the firearm is unloaded and then it is locked so that it cannot be tampered with until the passenger receives it at their destination.
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:19 am

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 10):

Happy a net Bday !!

is this guy name NEO or does he think he lives in the Matrix? what the heck he needs so much firepower....

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opethfan
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:25 am

Regardless of whether NY's gun laws are sensible (they're not), if federal law should override local or state law (I'm big into subsidiarity) or any other opinion, this man should have done his research before doing anything in an airport, with a gun, and especially combining the two.

I'm not even a gun owner and I know that NY's gun laws are stupidly unconstitutional and would never fly anywhere near there with a weapon checked.

On that note, however, what if you're diverted to NY but had no intention of actually going there?
 
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:42 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 7):
Exactly right. NY has unconstitutional gun control laws and routinely arrests visitors despite them having valid gun licenses from other places and only carrying weapons in locked cases with no intent to use them when arrested. Federal law should supersede state laws when dealing with federally regulated commerce and constitutional issues, but New York doesn't think so. In this case, federal law allows checking weapons in luggage, air travel is federally regulated commerce, but NY decides to assert local laws and claim they applied before the federally sanctioned act occurred.

New Jersey is similar. People have been arrested for simply driving the through the state with locked weapons in the trunk and a valid license to own the weapons.

If it's unconstitutional then let this guy get a good lawyer (or three) and take this all the way to the US Supreme Court if he's lucky. I hope he is, because I hate to see people go to jail for mistakes. Precedence says otherwise with regards to your opinion. Federal and state law butt heads all the time... Trying to make this an issue of NY or NJ law is skirting the issue really. JFK is located in NY, so your bringing up Federal law isn't applicable in my opinion. Federal law doesn't supersede NY State law in this instance until wheels up.

Quoting copter808 (Reply 9):
Interesting thought. Ordinarily I would think it's contrary to the Airline's best interests to make a police report. I suspect there is more to the story than has been reported.

I bet he was stopped when/after his checked luggage went through the scanner.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11):
Whether you're pro or anti gun I always hate seeing someone making an honest mistake and get the book thrown at them.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it), ignorance of the law is no defense. I too feel sorry for him.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 12):
But thanks to NY's gun laws - we now have him charged with 6 felony's.
BTW - if you are convicted of a felony, you cannot own a gun in the US.

Unless there is something else to the story - in a fair court - he would beat the felony conviction, but may have to plead to something less in order to avoid going to court, which is very expensive. BTW - the guns are probably confiscated and destroyed.

Forget about having your guns seized, I'd worry more about the felony convictions and a few loooooong years in NY State Prison... NY has long sentences for gun crimes.

Edit to say, magazine capacities in excess of 10 rounds is a Class 'D' Felony...sentence 2-7 years AFAIK.

[Edited 2013-10-28 22:50:33]
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fr8mech
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:12 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
And I'm not really sure how "loaded" could be misused here

I believe NYC considers ammunition in the vicinity of the firearm the same as a loaded firearm.

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy.

Neither do I. Someone who travels with firearms NEEDS to know the laws of the jurisdications he passes through.

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 5):
I could easily understand people not knowing that,

I can't. We live in the age of the Internet. You can have the pertinent laws on your screen in a couple of minutes.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 6):
- It may be custom load's

I've never seen or heard of .22 custom loads, but then again, I'm not a competative target shooter.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 7):
NY has unconstitutional gun control laws and routinely arrests visitors despite them having valid gun licenses from other places and only carrying weapons in locked cases with no intent to use them when arrested.

I know of no court that has ruled NYC's gun laws as un-Constitutional. The law is the law and responsible gun owners need to know the law before they set out.

Quoting flydeltajets (Reply 13):
By entering an airport with a loaded firearm he would have been subject to at least 1 of those felonies regardless of what city or state he was in

Incorrect. In many jurisdications, my home one included, you can enter the airport with a loaded firearm, you just can't pass security.
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alfa164
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:57 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 7):
Exactly right. NY has unconstitutional gun control laws and routinely arrests visitors despite them having valid gun licenses from other places and only carrying weapons in locked cases with no intent to use them when arrested.

If you are on the Supreme Court, you may decide whether or not those laws are constitution. Apparently, your absence there has allowed the other justices to find otherwise.

Before you misinform everyone online about the validity of New York's laws, you might want to do a little legal esearch.
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:06 am

I know my ( probably very ignorant or at least misinformed ) point of view regarding all the issue of the "pro-gun culture" in the US could make this post a mute point, but still, I FAIL to understand how, after 9/11, after all the scares due to possible terror plots against airport facilities, after all the airports desperately evacuated due to a "suspicious package", after all the delays and bad experiences caused because "a TSA agent detected a nail clipper in the baby's bag" , after all the stories about people being arrested after "minor faults" like verbal agressions against an airline employee, after all this, we still have, at the end of 2013, a guy with two rifles, guns, ammunition and a big personality, happily walking through the door of JFK airport. This is just beyond me.

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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:21 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11):
I doubt he knowingly broke the law

Without wanting to get into a debate about the constitutionality of any laws, it is a well established legal proposition that ignorance of the law is no defence

NY's laws notwithstanding, he is definitely guilty of at least one federal felony:

Quoting flydeltajets (Reply 13):
By entering an airport with a loaded firearm he would have been subject to at least 1 of those felonies regardless of what city or state he was in
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:25 am

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 19):
I know my ( probably very ignorant or at least misinformed ) point of view regarding all the issue of the "pro-gun culture" in the US could make this post a mute point, but still, I FAIL to understand how, after 9/11, after all the scares due to possible terror plots against airport facilities, after all the airports desperately evacuated due to a "suspicious package", after all the delays and bad experiences caused because "a TSA agent detected a nail clipper in the baby's bag" , after all the stories about people being arrested after "minor faults" like verbal agressions against an airline employee, after all this, we still have, at the end of 2013, a guy with two rifles, guns, ammunition and a big personality, happily walking through the door of JFK airport. This is just beyond me.

First, it is not like he was walking into the airport loaded down with rifles and a a bandolier of ammunition looking like Pancho Villa. All of his weapons were in locked cases. The problem comes down to the proximity of the ammunition and the weapons per New York law. It doesn't really say anything towards our perceived gun culture, rather the inconsistency and extreme differences in various gun laws.
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:55 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):
Without wanting to get into a debate about the constitutionality of any laws, it is a well established legal proposition that ignorance of the law is no defence

I know and I acknowledged that. I can still feel bad for him. He really should have done his homework
 
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:30 pm

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 17):
I believe NYC considers ammunition in the vicinity of the firearm the same as a loaded firearm.

It does, but that's a legal term and not necessarily one that the media would use - they'd tend to go with the more conventional definition of either having a round in the chamber or having a round in a magazine which was in the gun.

If it was referring to the legal definition, then I do have some sympathy for him, because I think that the laws are overly restrictive with regard to travelers with firearms. But I wouldn't feel bad for him at all if he had a round in the chamber or had a loaded magazine attached - not knowing if your gun is loaded or not is unacceptable.

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777STL
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:59 pm

I don't feel sorry for him. One of the guns had a round chambered and two of them had their serials removed - this guy was not a responsible gun owner which is also why he wasn't aware of the gun laws of NYC.

You can argue the constitutionality of NYC's gun laws all you want to, but the guy should have known better.
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bond007
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:10 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 12):
But thanks to NY's gun laws - we now have him charged with 6 felony's.
BTW - if you are convicted of a felony, you cannot own a gun in the US.

Yes, and he deserves everything he gets IMO.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 17):
responsible gun owners need to know the law before they set out.
Quoting 777STL (Reply 24):
You can argue the constitutionality of NYC's gun laws all you want to, but the guy should have known better.

Exactly. He probably can quote the second amendment word for word, and is a proponent of his gun carrying rights, as he interprets it. He should also keep up to date with laws that have passed since 1791.

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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 14):
is this guy name NEO or does he think he lives in the Matrix? what the heck he needs so much firepower....

Because it's his constitutional right.   
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fr8mech
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):
NY's laws notwithstanding, he is definitely guilty of at least one federal felony:

No. Again, that is incorrect. So long as he is not passing security, in many jurisdictions, he is not breaking the law by bringing a loaded firearm onto an airport. This guy will be charged under NY law, not federal law...at least on the possession charges. Trying to check the loaded firearm may draw a federal charge.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 19):
a guy with two rifles, guns, ammunition and a big personality, happily walking through the door of JFK airport. This is just beyond me.

He wasn't clearing security, he was trying to check his firearms. Of course, he was ignorant of the process and the local laws, but it wasn't like he was trying to get on an airplane with the guns.
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bond007
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:32 pm

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 27):
He wasn't clearing security, he was trying to check his firearms. Of course, he was ignorant of the process and the local laws, but it wasn't like he was trying to get on an airplane with the guns.

Still can't believe that we think this is OK where it is legal ...i.e. most airports and everywhere else.
The rest of the 'civilized' world laugh at us and our obscene obsession with guns, and that we somehow feel 'safer' (because we certainly are not) for when our tyrannical government tries to enslave us. Really?

...but I fear this will turn into a gun debate ...


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opethfan
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:34 am

Quoting bond007 (Reply 28):

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, but I think I agree.

After all, this man apparently broke half a dozen laws regarding firearms, yet not a single person was harmed...
 
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:52 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):

NY's laws notwithstanding, he is definitely guilty of at least one federal felony:

False. It is not a felony anywhere to carry a loaded firearm into an airport.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 25):
He should also keep up to date with laws that have passed since 1791.

Which law was it again that repealed the 2nd Amendment?
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CHS787
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:41 am

Sorry if I missed it, but wasn't there a thing on TV not to long ago about a guy that legally checked his firearms and flew into NYC only to be arrested for showing up with firearms in NYC?? I remember seeing this somewhere..
 
opethfan
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:48 am

Quoting CHS787 (Reply 31):
Sorry if I missed it, but wasn't there a thing on TV not to long ago about a guy that legally checked his firearms and flew into NYC only to be arrested for showing up with firearms in NYC?? I remember seeing this somewhere..

It's known to happen. And it's a complete joke, except that it's actually true.
 
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:43 am

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 12):
This is like the "gun free zones". Do you really think a crazy person bent on shooting people will stop when they see a "gun free zone" sign? Of course not - they well say - gee, nobody here will fight back.

You make a horrible misrepresentation of gun free zones. That crazy person bent on shooting people does not do so because they think " gee, nobody here will fight back." They would go there and shoot anyway.

Gun free zones works by requiring an extra effort to bring in weapons. It isn't about those who do it anyway. It is about all those who stop because they need to go through that extra step.

I'm also sure that those crazies going in shooting in those areas are smart enough to understand the sign doesn't mean "gee, nobody here will fight back." They fully expect that there are armed guards and additional armed responders will show up quickly.

In summary, gun free zones reduce the number of instances. Only opponents set the unrealistic goal of removing every instance. They should also remember that most murders happen outside of gun free zones.

Quoting maverick623 (Reply 30):
Which law was it again that repealed the 2nd Amendment?

Which law is it again that removed "well regulated" from the second amendment?
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bond007
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:56 pm

Quoting maverick623 (Reply 30):
Quoting bond007 (Reply 25):
He should also keep up to date with laws that have passed since 1791.

Which law was it again that repealed the 2nd Amendment?

I didn't imply it was repealed at all.

Simply that, as any responsible gun-owner should do (and he wasn't apparently), is to be familiar with gun laws since 1791. There were some NYC laws he should have been aware of.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:06 pm

Quoting prosa (Reply 8):
One of the firearms had defaced serial numbers, which is a federal crime.
Quoting rcair1 (Reply 2):
The loaded 22 is problematic - but often the word "loaded' is misused.

In my seventy years on earth, I've never known anyone, anywhere to carry an "accidently" loaded weapon.

This poor Tennessean is -- no doubt -- the first man ever.  
 
777STL
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:58 pm

Quoting CHS787 (Reply 31):

Sorry if I missed it, but wasn't there a thing on TV not to long ago about a guy that legally checked his firearms and flew into NYC only to be arrested for showing up with firearms in NYC?? I remember seeing this somewhere..

Yeah, I think the guy was flying DL and connecting through JFK when he was caught. His connecting flight was cancelled and he was forced to collect and recheck his bags in JFK, which is how he got caught.
PHX based
 
lewis
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:09 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 19):
I know my ( probably very ignorant or at least misinformed ) point of view regarding all the issue of the "pro-gun culture" in the US could make this post a mute point, but still, I FAIL to understand how, after 9/11, after all the scares due to possible terror plots against airport facilities, after all the airports desperately evacuated due to a "suspicious package", after all the delays and bad experiences caused because "a TSA agent detected a nail clipper in the baby's bag" , after all the stories about people being arrested after "minor faults" like verbal agressions against an airline employee, after all this, we still have, at the end of 2013, a guy with two rifles, guns, ammunition and a big personality, happily walking through the door of JFK airport. This is just beyond me.

There is a huge difference between what you can have on your person in the cabin vs what can go in the cargo hold. The latter is not accessible to the passenger during the flight. You are making it sound like the guy walked in JFK with guns and ammo around his shoulders, which is simply not the case.

I don't think this would be an issue even in countries with strict gun laws. As long as the packing of the weapon is according to the law you can carry it as luggage. There are people out there that use guns for sports or hunting and sometimes do need to travel with their weapons. This is not just based on a certain "craze with weapons" in the US.
 
bond007
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:16 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 37):
This is not just based on a certain "craze with weapons" in the US.

Well, the chances of this happening in the US is probably orders of magnitude more likely than in any other industrialized country. Most folks outside of the US wouldn't even know where, or how, to get a firearm, let alone several of them. Those that do would be true sportsmen (i.e. marksman etc.), not somebody who just wants to shoot some deer.


Jimbo
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:19 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 36):
Yeah, I think the guy was flying DL and connecting through JFK when he was caught. His connecting flight was cancelled and he was forced to collect and recheck his bags in JFK, which is how he got caught.

That's just crappy. Even the "ignorance of the law is no excuse" seems a stretch in this case. Even if you're the most anti-gun person on the planet, I'd find it hard to agree with that situation
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting CHS787 (Reply 31):
Sorry if I missed it, but wasn't there a thing on TV not to long ago about a guy that legally checked his firearms and flew into NYC only to be arrested for showing up with firearms in NYC?? I remember seeing this somewhere..

I think the guy was from Indiana and had to recheck through LGA and, following the rules, declared that he was checking a firearm.

Quoting cmf (Reply 33):
In summary, gun free zones reduce the number of instances.

Supposition on your part.

Quoting cmf (Reply 33):
Which law is it again that removed "well regulated" from the second amendment?

No law repealed it, but the Supreme Court did say that "A well regulated militia..." did not imply that one had to be a member of the militia in order to exercise one's right "...to keep and bear arms...". And, yes, the very same court, in the very same decision did rule that the right, like every other right we enjoy, is not unrestricted.

But, back to the topic...we really need to fix this type of problem. In just about any other jurisdiction, this guy would have been charged with nothing. He probably would have been a little red faced about the loaded firearm (inexcusable, in my opinion) and may have missed his flight due to some "enhanced interrogation" by the TSA and local authorities. Of course, he had the weapons in NYC prior to arriving at the airport, so he's probably not the best example. Which begs the question: how did he get the guns into NYC? I guess he wasn't searched at the border when he entered the city?

A better example of why the law needs to be fixed is:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/51...gun-revell-jersey-luggage.html.csp
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...gun-arrest-appealed-supreme-court/

Really, I don't see why the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act couldn't be amended to address a situation that places a traveler at odds with the firearms laws of a state that doesn't trust its citizens with firearms.
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bond007
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 40):
But, back to the topic...we really need to fix this type of problem.

I agree with your examples where somebody is unintentionally stranded at an airport they never expected to be - but totally disagree on this one.

What needs to be fixed in this case, is the gun owner needs to find out what the rules are in the state/city he/she is in.

We seem to have dozens of a.net members here, many who probably are not even gun owners or live in NY, who appear to know the gun laws very well.

The gun laws in NY are hardly secret - they've been the most publicized laws of recent times.


Jimbo

[Edited 2013-10-30 09:59:16]
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Lexy
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:14 pm

When certain members of the US Military are traveling commercially on military business, they must check all their weapons and ammunition like civilians. That's a pretty routine thing in the US.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
cmf
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:16 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 38):
Most folks outside of the US wouldn't even know where, or how, to get a firearm, let alone several of them.

If they don't know they would find the answer with little problem.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 38):
Those that do would be true sportsmen (i.e. marksman etc.), not somebody who just wants to shoot some deer.

Hunting is big business in many countries.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 39):
That's just crappy. Even the "ignorance of the law is no excuse" seems a stretch in this case.

Partially. It doesn't explain loaded weapon.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 40):
And, yes, the very same court, in the very same decision did rule that the right, like every other right we enjoy, is not unrestricted.

Bingo! So why should he not kept up with the changes?

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 40):
In just about any other jurisdiction, this guy would have been charged with nothing.

Sometime insisting it should be a state issue backfires...

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 40):
Supposition on your part.

But claiming murders take place because of them isn't... pot, kettle, black.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 40):
Really, I don't see why the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act couldn't be amended to address a situation that places a traveler at odds with the firearms laws of a state that doesn't trust its citizens with firearms

Why should NY give up their rights? Seems to me the proper thing is for people traveling with weapons respect NY's laws and travel a different way.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
bond007
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:26 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 43):
Hunting is big business in many countries.

Have you lived outside of the USA, or worked there for any period of time?
There are probably more hunters with guns in a small town in Tennessee than the whole of Europe...yes, I'm exaggerating, but not much!

Quoting cmf (Reply 43):
If they don't know they would find the answer with little problem.

Actually, quite a problem. Can't remember the last time I saw a gun shop anywhere outside of the USA. I have lived in Europe and worked in Australia and didn't even know anybody who owned a gun, hence the view of being gun-crazed over here, true or otherwise.

Jimbo

[Edited 2013-10-30 11:29:10]
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Spike11
Posts: 16
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:03 pm

First post, and straight into the hornet's nest...

I'm no expert on US gun laws or the specifics of NYC legislation, but I do come from a country where ownership and thus transportation of guns is a fairly common occurence. Thus, I went to the SAS web site to check what rules were in place here in Norway. They were easy to find. Basically, the same rules apply as if you are to move guns in your car: the gun(s) should be moved in parts or at least with a vital component removed and checked separately. You may bring up to 5 kgs of safely stored ammunition, separate from the gun(s). One shold also expect a more thorough search of the luggage and allow for a more time-consuming check-in procedure. In addition, from 2012 an extra charge of NOK 200 (roughly 30 dollars) applies.

Again, not an expert, but I would be somewhat surprised if similar advice - possibly even more specific, given differences from state to state - cannot be found on the websites of US carriers. And even if such information isn't available, I'd consider it prudent to look such things up before attempting to check in. Opinions on gun laws and the consequences of breaking such laws differ greatly, but it's still your responsibility to get the necessary information.

Sincerely,

Spike11
 
heathrow
Posts: 372
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:10 pm

EVEN if this guy disregards EVERY issue a weapon has ever caused in the aviation industry,

books an airline ticket without inquiring as to the baggage rules & regulations,

how would he not be aware of the laws restricting guns if he owns guns and planned to travel with them?

This is a careless disregard of the law where he was. He should have been aware not only of the laws regulating firearms in that state, but also of UA 's policy regarding transporting guns before arriving at the airport.
 
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DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:10 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 43):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 39):
That's just crappy. Even the "ignorance of the law is no excuse" seems a stretch in this case.

Partially. It doesn't explain loaded weapon.

I wasn't talking about the OP's guy, I'm talking about the guy who had his connecting flight cancelled and was arrested. (unless you are saying the guy I'm talking about also had a loaded gun)
 
bond007
Posts: 4428
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:14 pm

Quoting Spike11 (Reply 45):
They were easy to find

It's a no brainer, but even if it wasn't that easy it's still the owners responsibility to find out - but, as I said, it's common knowledge and easily available even to non gun owners.

Quoting Spike11 (Reply 45):
but I do come from a country where ownership and thus transportation of guns is a fairly common occurence

Just to put it into perspective - I think you have the highest gun ownership in Europe, but it's still around a third of the USA (per capita).

Jimbo

[Edited 2013-10-30 12:15:13]
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Spike11
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:41 pm

RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:25 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 48):

Just to put it into perspective - I think you have the highest gun ownership in Europe, but it's still around a third of the USA (per capita).

I think your Norway-US ratio is about right, but the Swiss has at least us soundly beat, I believe...

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