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lewis
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:29 pm

Quoting Spike11 (Reply 49):
I think your Norway-US ratio is about right, but the Swiss has at least us soundly beat, I believe...

Serbia is the highest in Europe I think. Greece should not be far behind in true numbers. Registered ones, that is a different story altogether! People in Crete are known to have whole armories in their basements.
 
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fr8mech
Posts: 8097
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 43):
Bingo! So why should he not kept up with the changes?

You apparently missed:

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 17):
Neither do I. Someone who travels with firearms NEEDS to know the laws of the jurisdictions he passes through.
Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 17):
I can't. We live in the age of the Internet. You can have the pertinent laws on your screen in a couple of minutes.
Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 27):
he was ignorant of the process and the local laws,
Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 40):
red faced about the loaded firearm (inexcusable, in my opinion)

I don't defend this guy one bit. In fact, I think he should be prosecuted as the DA sees fit.

I was just countering your little foray into the "well regulated" argument.

Quoting cmf (Reply 43):
Why should NY give up their rights? Seems to me the proper thing is for people traveling with weapons respect NY's laws and travel a different way.

Again, I'm not defending this guy. My concern is for the innocent traveler that, through no fault of his own, winds up at the wrong side of the law. The guy from Utah did everything right, yet was arrested because he continued to do the right thing.

And, as for NY giving up their rights:

1) With the passage of FOPA, back in 1986, some of NY State's and NYC's rights were taken away, weren't they?
2) NY (among others) is insisting that other states' rights be taken away in regards to gun control, aren't they?

Again, it is my opinion that this guy (Draughon) is an idiot or just plain ignorant. But, there is a flaw in the law where a non-idiot (Revell, from Utah) was put through considerable legal hassle and cost because FOPA was insufficient to protect him, even though protecting him was exactly what that law is supposed to do.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
rcair1
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting flydeltajets (Reply 13):
The report that I read said the rifle had 1 round in the chamber. I think that qualifies as loaded.
A firearm can only be checked if it is completely absent of ammunition and locked in a hard sided case.

1) I've not seen any report with the detail (lots of "comments" on blogs), but if there was a round chambered I would agree with you - as I stated before.
2) The locked case statement is incorrect. From the TSA webiste it is "firearms in a locked, hard-sided container OR as checked baggage. " Typically redundant language since any firearm MUST be checked, so the language almost seems designed to confuse.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 17):
I've never seen or heard of .22 custom loads, but then again, I'm not a competative target shooter.

Quite common.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 25):
Yes, and he deserves everything he gets IMO

You certainly would not be chosen for a jury. You are essentially saying, because they are weapons charges - he deserves punishment for everything he is charged of (and to what level pray tell?)

Quoting cmf (Reply 33):
Gun free zones works by requiring an extra effort to bring in weapons.

BS.
Gun free zones are typically demarked by a sign that says "Gun Free Zone" or "No guns allowed" There is no extra effort other than walking by them. I drive by a Gun Free Zone sign at a local school weekly. It is a sign by the sidewalk. What special effort is required? Many college campuses are "gun free zones" - but anybody can walk onto them.
rcair1
 
bond007
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:32 pm

Quoting Spike11 (Reply 49):
I think your Norway-US ratio is about right, but the Swiss has at least us soundly beat, I believe...

Nope! The US is tops by a long way ...even beats Switzerland where almost every male is required to keep their 'militia' army-issued firearm at home. Not easy to carry in public AFAIK, as a normal citizen.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 52):
You certainly would not be chosen for a jury. You are essentially saying, because they are weapons charges - he deserves punishment for everything he is charged of (and to what level pray tell?)

Not sure what you mean??

Of course he deserves punishment for everything he is charged with - if found guilty - isn't this how the justice system works ..or should work?

Has nothing to do with weapons - if some guy drove in the wrong lanes down 5th Avenue, and argued he didn't know what side of the road to drive on, I'd say the same thing - deserves everything he gets!


Jimbo

[Edited 2013-10-30 12:37:11]
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Spike11
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:36 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 50):
Serbia is the highest in Europe I think. Greece should not be far behind in true numbers. Registered ones, that is a different story altogether! People in Crete are known to have whole armories in their basements.

You're probably right... But in terms of registred weaponry, I believe I'm right!   But I think we're moving off topic here... For me, the most important aspect of this story is know the rules. They won't change just because you happen to disagree with, ignore and/or be ignorant of them.
 
Spike11
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:41 pm

RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:44 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 53):
Nope! The US is tops by a long way

I know! The lower-case 'us' was a reference to my folks, us Norwegians, not the (upper-case) 'US'. Apologies for the possible confusion I certainly am capable of causing... 
 
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fr8mech
Posts: 8097
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:44 pm

Quoting Spike11 (Reply 54):
For me, the most important aspect of this story is know the rules. They won't change just because you happen to disagree with, ignore and/or be ignorant of them.

   Nice summation
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
alfa164
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:45 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 52):
Gun free zones are typically demarked by a sign that says "Gun Free Zone" or "No guns allowed" There is no extra effort other than walking by them. I drive by a Gun Free Zone sign at a local school weekly. It is a sign by the sidewalk. What special effort is required? Many college campuses are "gun free zones" - but anybody can walk onto them.

And they can get arrested for it. Rightfully so.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
cmf
Posts: 3120
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:33 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 44):
Have you lived outside of the USA, or worked there for any period of time?
There are probably more hunters with guns in a small town in Tennessee than the whole of Europe...yes, I'm exaggerating, but not much!

Yes I have. Now what?

Quoting bond007 (Reply 44):
Can't remember the last time I saw a gun shop anywhere outside of the USA. I have lived in Europe and worked in Australia and didn't even know anybody who owned a gun,

Just because there isn't as many as here doesn't mean they are not there. I have friends who hunt in Europe and Australia.
Not just one or two either. B.t.w. we had a shooting range on our land. You can add Asia, Africa and South America to that list.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 44):
hence the view of being gun-crazed over here, true or otherwise.

No, gun-crazed is about the gun attitude. The idea that you should be armed at all times. Outside US you use guns for hunting or on a range.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 47):
I wasn't talking about the OP's guy

Sorry, I thought you meant the OP guy.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 51):
You apparently missed:

Nope. I followed the thread you jumped in on.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 51):
I was just countering your little foray into the "well regulated" argument.

Countered? You agreed with me it doesn't mean unrestricted. Have you changed your mind?

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 51):
My concern is for the innocent traveler that, through no fault of his own, winds up at the wrong side of the law

As long as the rules are in place make sure not to fly so you might end up in NY. No different from how you must be careful when you fly other parts of the world that don't recognise your medicines.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 51):
With the passage of FOPA, back in 1986, some of NY State's and NYC's rights were taken away, weren't they?

What are the rules in place now? That is what counts, isn't it?

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 52):
BS.
Gun free zones are typically demarked by a sign that says "Gun Free Zone" or "No guns allowed" There is no extra effort other than walking by them.

BS????? . There is no extra effort???? Breaking the law and the consequences it may have is a pretty good deterrent. As you should know from all the people complaining about having to go in unarmed in those areas.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
bond007
Posts: 4428
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:45 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 58):
I have friends who hunt in Europe and Australia.

So do I. It wasn't my point - folks across the world, with some exceptions, aren't owning, transporting, or carrying guns even close to the numbers that we in the US are.

Quoting cmf (Reply 58):
Quoting bond007 (Reply 44):
hence the view of being gun-crazed over here, true or otherwise.

No, gun-crazed is about the gun attitude. The idea that you should be armed at all times. Outside US you use guns for hunting or on a range.

So you mean yes!

The view most certainly is that we are a gun-crazed nation - it's hard to dispute.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1860
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:59 pm

I don't know whether the judge should throw the book at him... or the magazine LOL
 
cmf
Posts: 3120
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:22 pm

RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:02 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 59):
Quoting cmf (Reply 58):
I have friends who hunt in Europe and Australia.

So do I

What happened to "didn't even know anybody who owned a gun"?

Quoting bond007 (Reply 59):
folks across the world, with some exceptions, aren't owning, transporting, or carrying guns even close to the numbers that we in the US are.

What does it matter if it is to the same extent as in US? I said it was big business and that is what you objected to. It doesn't need to be on the same level as US to be big business.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 59):
So you mean yes!
The view most certainly is that we are a gun-crazed nation - it's hard to dispute.

I mean no because we were talking about hunting. Those hunters need places to buy their weapons and ammunition thus there are gun stores  
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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fr8mech
Posts: 8097
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:06 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 58):
As long as the rules are in place make sure not to fly so you might end up in NY. No different from how you must be careful when you fly other parts of the world that don't recognise your medicines.

Boy, you certainly don't wish to give an inch, do you? I wonder why? Actually, It's probably folks like you that drove the need for FOPA.

But, you bring to mind an interesting question:

Say I'm flying ATL-ANC for a hunting trip. Presumably I will bring a rifle and, quite probably, a handgun. Say, we have an enroute emergency and divert to a suitable airport in Canada and we have to spend the night. How do the Canadian authorities handle me?

Quoting cmf (Reply 58):
What are the rules in place now? That is what counts, isn't it?

Actually, the law is the same as it was in 1986. I say that the law is insufficient to protect the traveler, who happens to be legally transporting a firearm.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
bond007
Posts: 4428
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:13 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 61):
What happened to "didn't even know anybody who owned a gun"?

I don't!

Quoting cmf (Reply 61):
What does it matter if it is to the same extent as in US?

Because the extent was my whole point.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
cmf
Posts: 3120
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:22 pm

RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:15 pm

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 62):
Boy, you certainly don't wish to give an inch, do you?

I'm just looking at the state rights argument you gunners have been pushing over and over and wonder why it shouldn't apply here?

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 62):
It's probably folks like you that drove the need for FOPA.

No, it is because of all the folks abusing the second amendment to mean guns everywhere at all times we have crazy gun laws.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 62):
How do the Canadian authorities handle me?

Don't know. Do you? Suggest you do before you make a trip like that.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 62):
Actually, the law is the same as it was in 1986. I say that the law is insufficient to protect the traveler, who happens to be legally transporting a firearm.

Seems NY disagree with you.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:29 pm

May I make the suggestion that this thread be moved over to non-Av so that I may start picking apart certain arguments in the correct forum.

I would like an answer from someone who may be knowledgeable to my hypothetical question:

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 62):
Say I'm flying ATL-ANC for a hunting trip. Presumably I will bring a rifle and, quite probably, a handgun. Say, we have an enroute emergency and divert to a suitable airport in Canada and we have to spend the night. How do the Canadian authorities handle me?

I already know how NY, NJ, D.C and a couple of others would treat me.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3505
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

RE: Man Tries To Check Bag Full Of Weapons At JFK

Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:42 pm

This thread has turned into a gun debate and will be locked. Any posts made after the lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.

Regards,
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club

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