Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
dtw2hyd
Topic Author
Posts: 8825
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:55 pm

CNN reporting FAA scheduled a press conference for today to announce its decision about PED in-flight usage. Any details?
All posts are just opinions.
 
catiii
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:03 pm

Live on CNBC right now...
 
catiii
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:09 pm

Looks like FAA punted and is leaving it to the airlines to come up with their own individual policies, with the only guidance that cell service will have to be disabled. FAA: "We expect airlines will allow gate to gate usage in airplane mode."
 
catiii
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:21 pm

Here is the FAA press release:

Press Release – FAA to Allow Airlines to Expand Use of Personal Electronics

For Immediate Release

October 31, 2013
Contact: Kristie Greco
Phone: (202) 267-2883

WASHINGTON– The U.S. Department of Transportation’s Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Administrator Michael Huerta today announced that the FAA has determined that airlines can safely expand passenger use of Portable Electronic Devices (PEDs) during all phases of flight, and is immediately providing the airlines with implementation guidance.

Due to differences among fleets and operations, the implementation will vary among airlines, but the agency expects many carriers will prove to the FAA that their planes allow passengers to safely use their devices in airplane mode, gate-to-gate, by the end of the year.

The FAA based its decision on input from a group of experts that included representatives from the airlines, aviation manufacturers, passengers, pilots, flight attendants, and the mobile technology industry.

Passengers will eventually be able to read e-books, play games, and watch videos on their devices during all phases of flight, with very limited exceptions. Electronic items, books and magazines, must be held or put in the seat back pocket during the actual takeoff and landing roll. Cell phones should be in airplane mode or with cellular service disabled – i.e., no signal bars displayed—and cannot be used for voice communications based on FCC regulations that prohibit any airborne calls using cell phones. If your air carrier provides Wi-Fi service during flight, you may use those services. You can also continue to use short-range Bluetooth accessories, like wireless keyboards.

“We believe today’s decision honors both our commitment to safety and consumer’s increasing desire to use their electronic devices during all phases of their flights,” said Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx. “These guidelines reflect input from passengers, pilots, manufacturers, and flight attendants, and I look forward to seeing airlines implement these much anticipated guidelines in the near future.”

“I commend the dedication and excellent work of all the experts who spent the past year working together to give us a solid report so we can now move forward with a safety-based decision on when passengers can use PEDs on airplanes,” said FAA Administrator Michael Huerta.

The PED Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) concluded most commercial airplanes can tolerate radio interference signals from PEDs. In a recent report, they recommended that the FAA provide airlines with new procedures to assess if their airplanes can tolerate radio interference from PEDs. Once an airline verifies the tolerance of its fleet, it can allow passengers to use handheld, lightweight electronic devices – such as tablets, e-readers, and smartphones—at all altitudes. In rare instances of low-visibility, the crew will instruct passengers to turn off their devices during landing. The group also recommended that heavier devices should be safely stowed under seats or in overhead bins during takeoff and landing.

The FAA is streamlining the approval of expanded PED use by giving airlines updated, clear guidance. This FAA tool will help airlines assess the risks of potential PED-induced avionics problems for their airplanes and specific operations. Airlines will evaluate avionics as well as changes to stowage rules and passenger announcements. Each airline will also need to revise manuals, checklists for crewmember training materials, carry-on baggage programs and passenger briefings before expanding use of PEDs. Each airline will determine how and when they will allow passengers broader use of PEDs.

The FAA did not consider changing the regulations regarding the use of cell phones for voice communications during flight because the issue is under the jurisdiction of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). The ARC did recommend that the FAA consult with the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to review its current rules. Cell phones differ from most PEDs in that they are designed to send out signals strong enough to be received at great distances

Top Things Passengers Should Know about Expanded Use of PEDs on Airplanes:

1. Make safety your first priority.

2. Changes to PED policies will not happen immediately and will vary by airline. Check with your airline to see if and when you can use your PED.

3. Current PED policies remain in effect until an airline completes a safety assessment, gets FAA approval, and changes its PED policy.

4. Cell phones may not be used for voice communications.

5. Devices must be used in airplane mode or with the cellular connection disabled. You may use the WiFi connection on your device if the plane has an installed WiFi system and the airline allows its use. You can also continue to use short-range Bluetooth accessories, like wireless keyboards.

6. Properly stow heavier devices under seats or in the overhead bins during takeoff and landing. These items could impede evacuation of an aircraft or may injure you or someone else in the event of turbulence or an accident.

7. During the safety briefing, put down electronic devices, books and newspapers and listen to the crewmember’s instructions.

8. It only takes a few minutes to secure items according to the crew’s instructions during takeoff and landing.

9. In some instances of low visibility – about one percent of flights – some landing systems may not be proved PED tolerant, so you may be asked to turn off your device.

10. Always follow crew instructions and immediately turn off your device if asked.

Current FAA regulations require an aircraft operator to determine that radio frequency interference from PEDs is not a flight safety risk before the operator authorizes them for use during certain phases of flight. Even PEDs that do not intentionally transmit signals can emit unintentional radio energy. This energy may affect aircraft safety because the signals can occur at the same frequencies used by the plane’s highly sensitive communications, navigation, flight control and electronic equipment. An airline must show it can prevent potential interference that could pose a safety hazard. The PED ARC report helps the FAA to guide airlines through determining that they can safely allow widespread use of PEDs.

The PED ARC began work in January, at the request of Administrator Huerta, to determine if it is safe to allow more widespread use of electronic devices in today’s aircraft. The group also reviewed the public’s comments in response to an August 2012 FAA notice on current policy, guidance, and procedures that aircraft operators use when determining if passengers can use PEDs. The group did not consider the use of electronic devices for voice communications. A fact sheet on the report is available at http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/

The FAA is immediately giving airlines a clear path to safely expand PED use by passengers, and the Administrator will evaluate the rest of the ARC’s longer-term recommendations and respond at a later date.

A Portable Electronic Device is any piece of lightweight, electrically-powered equipment. These devices are typically consumer electronic devices capable of communications, data processing and/or utility. Examples range from handheld, lightweight electronic devices such as tablets, e-readers, and smartphones to small devices such as MP3 players and electronic toys.

The PED ARC report and FAA guidance materials are available on our website..
 
crAAzy
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:02 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:22 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):

Looks like FAA punted and is leaving it to the airlines to come up with their own individual policies, with the only guidance that cell service will have to be disabled.

It will be interesting to see what policies airlines come up with here; however, too restrictive could be a competitive disadvantage for some.

It could be a bit of a mess with each carrier having their own policy. I can just hear it now "I can do it on …. airline!"
 
catiii
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:26 pm

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 4):
It could be a bit of a mess with each carrier having their own policy. I can just hear it now "I can do it on …. airline!"

Agreed. This sentence from the release really stuck out: "Current FAA regulations require an aircraft operator to determine that radio frequency interference from PEDs is not a flight safety risk before the operator authorizes them for use during certain phases of flight."

I imagine it has to do with the mish-mash of airline certificates, especially among regional carriers flying under a mainline brand. DL, for example, cant just mandate that the carriers flying as Delta Connection also allow for PED use because it is up to the individual airline to get certified. It's going to be a nightmare...
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:46 pm

Finally, no more bitching about me taking photos during taxi, takeoff, and landing   

Welcome news, and i'm glad to see it.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10410
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:50 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 3):
9. In some instances of low visibility – about one percent of flights – some landing systems may not be proved PED tolerant, so you may be asked to turn off your device.

This will also be a big mess for enforcement.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4325
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:51 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
Finally, no more bitching about me taking photos during taxi, takeoff, and landing

For real, amen!
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
catiii
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:52 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):

This will also be a big mess for enforcement.

another good one. So what if you're cleared for an ILS, but then take a visual? How do you enforce it?
 
dtw2hyd
Topic Author
Posts: 8825
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:59 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Quoting catiii (Reply 3):
9. In some instances of low visibility – about one percent of flights – some landing systems may not be proved PED tolerant, so you may be asked to turn off your device.

This will also be a big mess for enforcement.

There is a fundamental issue with that argument, radio frequencies are well defined, there is no reason why a $100 Million commercial aircraft should use radio frequencies allotted to consumer electronics. Most of the aviation electronics are tested for years, can't they test for radio interference.
All posts are just opinions.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13963
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:29 pm

While I find the ban ludicrous and have been disregarding it always, taking pictures and videos during take-off and landing, I'm a little bit worried about people not caring about anything anymore and the consequences in an incident/accident.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
catiii
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:31 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
While I find the ban ludicrous and have been disregarding it always, taking pictures and videos during take-off and landing, I'm a little bit worried about people not caring about anything anymore and the consequences in an incident/accident.

No offense, but you clearly haven't complied, cared or been worried about that up until this point when it was "illegal" to do so. Why are you suddenly so worried now that it is approved by the FAA?
 
cokepopper
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 9:44 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:33 pm

Looks like Delta has Nov1 as a target date for the new rules. At least according to their FB page.
 
dtw2hyd
Topic Author
Posts: 8825
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:36 pm

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 13):
ooks like Delta has Nov1 as a target date for the new rules. At least according to their FB page.

That is tomorrow, way to go DL.
All posts are just opinions.
 
catiii
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:42 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 14):
Quoting cokepopper (Reply 13):
ooks like Delta has Nov1 as a target date for the new rules. At least according to their FB page.

That is tomorrow, way to go DL.

To clarify, it says "as early as November 1 pending FAA approval." They (smartly) left some wiggle room.
 
cokepopper
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 9:44 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 15):
To clarify, it says "as early as November 1 pending FAA approval." They (smartly) left some wiggle room.

Hence the words Target Date.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2247
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:46 pm

I'm happy this is finally resolved because it's a long overdue battle that flight crews Hate having with customers. This should I hope enhance the onboard and in-flight experience for passengers industry wide. I hope my favorite 3 airlines WN,B6 and VX quickly act on this new rule.
Flyguy  
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
jreuschl
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:04 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:05 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 17):
WN,B6 and VX quickly act on this new rule.

This doesn't involve WN's IT system so they should be good  
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13963
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:57 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 12):
No offense, but you clearly haven't complied, cared or been worried about that up until this point when it was "illegal" to do so. Why are you suddenly so worried now that it is approved by the FAA?

Because what I'm doing is related to the flight, so I'm very much aware of what's going on, unlike people reading a paper or a book.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4115
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:02 pm

No date for WN yet. Talking points that can be shared are that it will happen soon. Policy hasn't been finalized yet on how it will all work. There is also a process that it will go through so it probably isn't something that is just going be done tomorrow without thorough reviews and feedback from work groups.

I'm glad this is happening. As long as people are advised to put the items down/off during the safety briefing.
 
catiii
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:06 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 19):
Because what I'm doing is related to the flight, so I'm very much aware of what's going on, unlike people reading a paper or a book.

Sp passengers who are reading, which they have been able to do since without regulation since the dawn of commercial aviation, are some how less aware of what's going on than you are because you're taking a video? How does this rule change anything then? It has nothing to do with anyone reading a book or newspaper.



[Edited 2013-10-31 12:18:39]
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:20 pm

I, for one, am supportive of this change and am glad that the cell phone use ban will continue; which, as previously stated, is the FCC's call not the FAA).
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10410
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:25 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Quoting catiii (Reply 3):
9. In some instances of low visibility – about one percent of flights – some landing systems may not be proved PED tolerant, so you may be asked to turn off your device.

This will also be a big mess for enforcement.

There is a fundamental issue with that argument, radio frequencies are well defined, there is no reason why a $100 Million commercial aircraft should use radio frequencies allotted to consumer electronics. Most of the aviation electronics are tested for years, can't they test for radio interference.

Agreed.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 14):
Quoting cokepopper (Reply 13):
ooks like Delta has Nov1 as a target date for the new rules. At least according to their FB page.

That is tomorrow, way to go DL.

How can they change their safety videos that fast?

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 22):
I, for one, am supportive of this change and am glad that the cell phone use ban will continue; which, as previously stated, is the FCC's call not the FAA).

I think cellular data should be allowed if it is possible to receive it, but agreed on voice calls. I assume the airlines will ban Skype as well. It's effectively banned now.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1851
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:28 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 22):
I, for one, am supportive of this change and am glad that the cell phone use ban will continue; which, as previously stated, is the FCC's call not the FAA).

Agreed. For cell phones, there are obvious non-technical reasons to retain the ban, too, and I'm sure most passengers would agree.
 
willzzz88
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 4:22 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:31 pm

Mobile/cellular phone calls are PROHIBITED in US airspace. Virgin Atlantic and British Airways on their trans-Atlantic services (BA on the A318's) have either AeroMobile or OnAir installed allowing customers in international and European airspace except during takeoff and landings to use their mobile phones. The service is essentially billed as a GSM international roaming call (if you need a quad-band GSM world phone) and there is EDGE data available last time I checked. Emirates, Etihad also have this service on their US services. So do Air France KLM. I believe if their using the Panasonic equipment there is an option for a GSM pico-cell on board in addition to the standard satellite internet.

BTW the only US mobile carriers that support international roaming onto AeroMobile and OnAir is AT&T and T-Mobile at extremely high rates.

http://www.wireless.att.com/travelgu...age_details.jsp?CIDL=1648&MNC=CING
http://www.wireless.att.com/travelgu...age_details.jsp?CIDL=1501&MNC=CING
 
airtechy
Posts: 802
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:35 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:59 pm

Glad to see that reason has finally prevailed. It will be interesting to go back over the many threads related to the use of PED's in the light of this new rule as it's elimination has obviously been carefully looked at by knowledgeable people. As an engineer who designs such electronic devices and tests for the emissions from them, I have always felt that the rule was unneeded. Certain devices designed to be emitters.....such as bluetooth devices...should probably be allowed also as they operate in a well defined narrow RF band with extremely low power....less than wi-fi which is allowed.

Cell phones can emit up several watts of power depending on the signal path to the cell site. At altitude and considering the shielding effect of the airplane skin they could be at max power out. Whether you are using them or not they are in contact with the cell site. Clearly, many people forget/ignore announcements and don't turn off their phones in flight. You can argue forever on a plane carrying say 400 people how many people this applies to, but I doubt it's only a few. Nevertheless, a stronger technical argument for banning their use can be made.

Even though it comes up in any thread related to PEDs, the need to stow any heavy device during turbulence is totally unrelated to whether it is an electronic device or not.

Jim
 
delimit
Posts: 840
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:08 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:18 pm

DL, as always, is fast on filing request for authorization for services from the government.
 
 
rj777
Posts: 1814
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 1:47 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:26 pm

Doesn't this mean that new safety cards and safety videos are going to be needed?
 
dtw2hyd
Topic Author
Posts: 8825
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:27 pm

Quoting airtechy (Reply 26):
Cell phones can emit up several watts of power depending on the signal path to the cell site. At altitude and considering the shielding effect of the airplane skin they could be at max power out. Whether you are using them or not they are in contact with the cell site. Clearly, many people forget/ignore announcements and don't turn off their phones in flight. You can argue forever on a plane carrying say 400 people how many people this applies to, but I doubt it's only a few. Nevertheless, a stronger technical argument for banning their use can be made.

Cell towers broadcast signals all around doesn't matter if ones phone is turned on or not, same with low earth orbit satellites, for that matter entire universe is filled with radio interference. Even if all human made radio emitting devices are turned off, there will be interference. Technical argument should be how to safeguard a device(in this case a commercial plane) from interference not banning them. For some reason aircraft manufacturers got away for so long without giving a valid answer.

This is what happens when there is real interference.

"The US Federal Communications Commission (FCC) effectively killed off LightSquared's aspiration to launch a wholesale 4G network, judging that the company's proposed satellite-terrestrial hybrid network would interfere with GPS devices operating in nearby spectrum bands. LightSquared's spectrum in the 1600MHz band is licensed only for mobile satellite services with restrictions making the spectrum unsuitable for mobile broadband. The company had looked for a way around this but was unable to find a solution that did not cause problems for GPS receievers."
All posts are just opinions.
 
BA677
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:05 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:36 pm

I wander if this would apply to air band scanners or would there still be a total ban while on the plane. Obviously they don't transmit but listen/ use the same band as the plane. So would a scanner cause more interference than WiFi or blue tooth?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2247
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:38 pm

I'm happy this is finally resolved because it's a long overdue battle that flight crews Hate having with customers. This should I hope enhance the onboard and in-flight experience for passengers industry wide. I hope my favorite 3 airlines WN,B6 and VX quickly act on this new rule.
Flyguy  
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
CO777DAL
Posts: 430
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:01 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:42 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 27):

DL, as always, is fast on filing request for authorization for services from the government.

If we are going to go off that, then hopeful by this time next year UA might have half of a policy figured out.  

I'm glad the FAA did this and since I fly UA I hope they gets with program soon, but not holding my breath.
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
tmoney
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:05 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:19 pm

If you'd ask me, they should still ban them. Considering that the majority of accidents happen within 20 minutes of take off/landing, you really want to be alert at that time. Those crucial seconds could give you a chance to brace yourself before impact. As a passenger all you could really do to watch out for yourself is to keep a sharp ear on the engine noise and how much the plane is vibrating and stuff. If things go south and I have to jump off an airplane, I'd hate to be the one behind that hipster kid jammin to Dubstep, oblivious of what's going on.

Oh, but wait, this is 'murica and your safety is on you, just like your health insurance.
Yokes > Side-sticks
Mingarladon heros. RGN.
 
bmibaby737
Posts: 1645
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:07 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:51 pm

Can we expect other countries to follow suit, in particular the UKs CAA?
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2256
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:52 am

Quoting delimit (Reply 27):
DL, as always, is fast on filing request for authorization for services from the government.

I was talking about this with a colleague today (just so happens radio frequencies are one of our specialties). I told him that smart airlines would already be working on this, or have approval already. Good to see that DL was already on this. I suspect it won't be long before others follow.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:19 am

Quoting tmoney (Reply 33):
Considering that the majority of accidents happen within 20 minutes of take off/landing, you really want to be alert at that time.

Better prevent people from sleeping or reading a book then.


All the takeoff and landing videos on YouTube should be an indicator of the rule's success and it's impact on aircraft accidents.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
silentbob
Posts: 1625
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:33 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 31):

I'm happy this is finally resolved because it's a long overdue battle that flight crews Hate having with customers.

Please don't take offense, but that is incredibly naive. This is going to result in a lot of people continuing to text and use data right up until they no longer get reception. It already happens now, when they aren't supposed to be used at all. The segment of the population that deems themselves smarter/better than everyone else will just click once or twice to enable airplane mode when they see an FA coming and then turn the data back on as soon as they turn their back.

If everyone was honest and followed the rules, the ruling today would be good for everyone and make sense. In the world we live in, it's just going to cause more problems. Unless of course FAs just throw their hands up and say "screw it, do whatever you want."
 
Milesdependent
Posts: 629
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 5:27 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:39 am

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-0...obile-phone-use-on-flights/5062628

Interesting comments in here re Australia. Hopefully not long until we can use PEDs on QF.
 
WNCrew
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:22 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:51 am

Quoting silentbob (Reply 37):

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 31):

I'm happy this is finally resolved because it's a long overdue battle that flight crews Hate having with customers.

Please don't take offense, but that is incredibly naive. This is going to result in a lot of people continuing to text and use data right up until they no longer get reception. It already happens now, when they aren't supposed to be used at all. The segment of the population that deems themselves smarter/better than everyone else will just click once or twice to enable airplane mode when they see an FA coming and then turn the data back on as soon as they turn their back.

If everyone was honest and followed the rules, the ruling today would be good for everyone and make sense. In the world we live in, it's just going to cause more problems. Unless of course FAs just throw their hands up and say "screw it, do whatever you want."

Yes, this changes very little for flight attendants. This ONLY makes things more complicated for us if anything. If you actually read the press release it seems NOW we will be arguing with pax that they probably should not be holding onto their giant 1999 TOSHIBA laptop during landing even though technically they can watch a movie during landing due to it's weight because clearly it states heavier items should be stowed while the pax next to them may continue watching the same movie on their iPad because it's much lighter in weight and would result in less injury as a projectile. Ughhh....

Again... none of this should be an issue, it's pathetic that we live in a world where we are so self absorbed that we can't "be without" for such a short period of time, but alas, this is who we are. Sad, pathetic and sad.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
silentbob
Posts: 1625
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:01 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 39):
Again... none of this should be an issue, it's pathetic that we live in a world where we are so self absorbed that we can't "be without" for such a short period of time, but alas, this is who we are. Sad, pathetic and sad.

Call them what they are, "electronic pacifiers"
 
cschleic
Posts: 1851
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:53 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 39):
Again... none of this should be an issue, it's pathetic that we live in a world where we are so self absorbed that we can't "be without" for such a short period of time, but alas, this is who we are. Sad, pathetic and sad.

Maybe the answer is to put everything away, although not worry about turning it off. I agree, the fact that some people can't live without constantly texting or using Facebook is ridiculous. But what I also find ridiculous is being told I have to turn off something, even if I'm not using it, because it might interfere with the plane, when most people know that's patently not true. I've even heard F/A's admit they lie to passengers about it. And I've seen plenty of them absorbed in their cell phones when they shouldn't be.
 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:55 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:04 am

Quoting cschleic (Reply 41):
I've even heard F/A's admit they lie to passengers about it.

I had a Delta crew tell the passengers once that the IFE system was smart enough to know how many devices were still on and then proceeded to make up some number of devices that were still on that needed to be turned off before we left.
 
flyfree727
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:11 am

FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:48 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
Finally, no more bitching about me taking photos during taxi, takeoff, and landing

More like, finally, you won't be breaking the rules.
     

AA ORD
 
bond007
Posts: 4428
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use Of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:44 pm

Quoting cschleic (Reply 41):
But what I also find ridiculous is being told I have to turn off something, even if I'm not using it, because it might interfere with the plane, when most people know that's patently not true.

Nobody knew it wasn't true which is why every airline has to go through new tests to prove that it doesn't!
You should have told the FAA your expert knowledge - it would have saved millions of dollars on the latest testing!




Quoting WNCrew (Reply 39):
This ONLY makes things more complicated for us if anything

Yes, all that is going to happen now, is a worse situation IMO.

Because folks don't need to turn them off now(most didn't anyway - just turned the screen off), they will all stay on in normal mode (not airplane).

We'll hear ringing phones on takeoff and landing, and people trying to make calls and text.

Enforcing airplane mode is impossible, so let's hope all the testing was done with 90% of pax phones all being on in normal mode during all phases of flights (slightly more than 75% before this rule)!


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
jpmagero
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:06 pm

RE: FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use Of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:57 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
Finally, no more bitching about me taking photos during taxi, takeoff, and landing

Right - about bloody time. Though I note they didn't include cameras in the "example" set of PEDs, when they could have. Does that mean they were never explicitly outlawed, but just fit the profile of a "device with an on/off swtich"?

Quote:

A Portable Electronic Device is any piece of lightweight, electrically-powered equipment. These devices are typically consumer electronic devices capable of communications, data processing and/or utility. Examples range from handheld, lightweight electronic devices such as tablets, e-readers, and smartphones to small devices such as MP3 players and electronic toys.

The fellow sitting next to me on a flight the other day actually nudged me with his remote control and said "no electronic devices!!!" while I was taking photos taxiing. FAs never said a word.
John M - Aussie expat in the US
 
LittleFokker
Posts: 1380
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:25 pm

RE: FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use Of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:07 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Thread starter):
decision about PED in-flight usage
Quoting catiii (Reply 3):
The FAA is streamlining the approval of expanded PED use
Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 38):
Hopefully not long until we can use PEDs on QF.

I just hope roid-rage doesn't become a problem on flights!   

Actually, can we agree to call them "gizmos" or something since the sports world had already adopted the PED acronym and given it a negative connotation?
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
catiii
Posts: 3794
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use Of Personal Electronics

Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:14 pm

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 47):
Actually, can we agree to call them "gizmos" or something since the sports world had already adopted the PED acronym and given it a negative connotation?

Since both the FAA and the industry call them PEDs, it would seem to me that is the appropriate term.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1734
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use Of Personal Electronics

Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:00 am

Quoting jpmagero (Reply 45):
Right - about bloody time. Though I note they didn't include cameras in the "example" set of PEDs, when they could have. Does that mean they were never explicitly outlawed, but just fit the profile of a "device with an on/off swtich"?

Well, tablets and smartphones have camera features, so I imagine the personal electronic devices would include cameras so long as they're not the big ol' paparazzi-type cameras.

BTW, I've been noticing more and more passengers using their tablets/smartphones to take pictures during ascent/descent and even record takeoffs and landings from the window, even before this relaxation went into effect.
 
flood
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:05 pm

RE: FAA Allows Gate To Gate Use Of Personal Electronics

Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:49 am

DL's crew instructions cover "small, lightweight PEDs, including e-readers, smartphones, tablets and PEDs weighing less than 2 lbs. that can easily be secured in the seat pocket".

Apparently, laptops and portable DVD players are not included, and there's no specific mention of cameras. I'll venture to guess anything other than a tiny point-and-shoot still won't be permitted.

http://www.runwaygirlnetwork.com/wp-...ds/sites/16/2013/11/Delta-PEDs.jpg

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 39):
This ONLY makes things more complicated for us if anything.

Very much so. Let the arguing ensue.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos