babybus
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:48 am

It seems he thought his rights were being violated. In some ways he's right, if you're allowed guns in your home why not on a plane?  

It is lucky no A380s were damaged in the shoot out.

LAX doesn't look as glam in the pics as it does in the films.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:51 am

I was the one that said "likely" hijacking. Details were still sketchy when I typed that. All I knew at that point was, a crazed gunman shot his way through security, and was shot by police near gates. Not knowing what the motives were, the possibility came across my mind, and I am sure many others. And who knows what this guy really had planed. Again, many lives could have been lost today. I applaud the quick response by police.

Nobody will probably know what his ultimate plans were. If he survives, I doubt he will ever admit or tell anyone his true plans. My thought of an attempted hijacking was a thought and concern. However, the response relieves my concerns. I am sure many lessons were learned from todays tragedy, and will no doubt help in any future attempts in breaching security. I am deeply saddened that lives were lost today, but I hope those lives will bring forth a little more respect for TSA agents.

I knew a security screener in LAS who took a bullet trying to stop a guy after breaching the security checkpoint in the 1980's. IIRC, the gunman was shot and killed while attempting to board an aircraft.

[Edited 2013-11-02 02:08:44]
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PITingres
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:59 am

Quoting FlightShadow (Reply 80):
My local airport's TSA agents have removed over a dozen firearms from ticketed passengers this year. That's hardly 'doing nothing.'

Sure it is, unless those passengers were planning on actually using them. It's certain that they weren't, so yes, that is "doing nothing" for security. (And I base my claim on the fact that the TSA has never crowed about stopping a potential terrorist when they announce these things. Invariably it's someone who forgot, or who was trying to ship the firearm through to the destination for unrelated reasons.)

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 92):
Perhaps we need those entering to go through a metal detector and spot checks of bags by security staff.

You're just moving the problem around, not solving it.

Quoting flydeltajets (Reply 95):
While it is far from perfect it is definitely at the minimum a deterrent. It at the least makes people that want to do bad the the flying public have to work just a little harder.

I hear that a lot as a justification, but what does it matter in real security terms whether the bad guy has to work harder or not? And in fact, I dispute the assertion; as shown by this incident, it makes me an easy target while standing in line.

The deterrent justification is heard a lot as well, but since pax security has never to anyone's knowledge caught one single terrorist to question, I find it very dubious; it's certainly an unproven and groundless assertion.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
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cougar15
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:26 pm

on my last vacations to tuerkey, even at 'tourism heavy' Airports, everyone was fully screened before entering the terminal, maybe they know something we don't, especially with a Country like the US with their 'questionable' (for all the rest of us on earth) gun laws (and no, I dont want to start the gun debate here....)
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:45 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 103):
even at 'tourism heavy' Airports, everyone was fully screened before entering the terminal, maybe they know something we don't

Impossible with 1.8 Million/day pax at so many airports and with quite a few airports with freezing temps. There will be lot more medical emergencies if you force pax to form line outside with windchill below 32F. And it doesn't make any safer.

BDOs at the terminal entrance might work.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:36 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 103):
on my last vacations to tuerkey, even at 'tourism heavy' Airports, everyone was fully screened before entering the terminal, maybe they know something we don't,

I noted in a previous post, that perhaps we need at major USA airport terminals more security at entrances to terminals to hopefully keep out potential terrorists as well as baggage thieves, homeless and others who don't have a legit need to be at the airport (except for spotters !). Airports outside the USA that have pre terminal and terminal entrance security do so because of a history of domestic and international based terror and political groups attacking government buildings and airport terminals.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:00 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 100):

It seems he thought his rights were being violated. In some ways he's right, if you're allowed guns in your home why not on a plane?

It is lucky no A380s were damaged in the shoot out.

LAX doesn't look as glam in the pics as it does in the films.


and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.

Honestly I'd say its lucky no one else was killed, in a situation like this who cares whether an airplane gets damaged or not!
 
PHX787
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:43 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 85):
What needs to be reviewed are the laws pertaining to mental illness and committal. The rise in mass shootings and homelessness are both results of the lack of laws allowing for forced treatment.

Once again clear evidence of a nutcase getting ahold of a weapon in any manner he possibly could and using it to enact some sort of revenge against someone...in this case, the TSA...


IKRAmerica is right....we need to focus not on the weapon but on the person who acquired the weapon.
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TwoSixLeft
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:02 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 106):

Exactly. We might be aviation enthusiasts, but in cases like this, the loss of people is what really matters. May the deceased rest in peace and the surviving victims recover rapidly.

ABC's most recent article suggests that LAPD had gone to the shooter's house earlier that morning after receiving a call that he might have been suicidal. If he was intending to commit suicide by cop and had an existing vendetta against TSA, his potential "rationale" becomes sadly apparent.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/lax-shooter...tery-authorities/story?id=20763771

[Edited 2013-11-02 08:04:38]
NX37602. "Well, the airplane seems to be fairly successful."
 
trex8
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:21 pm

Every security station I've been through seems to have an armed police officer sitting right there or very close. What happened here? There seem to be no news reports of the guy meeting resistance till he had penetrated to the gates or a police officer being hurt.

You only occasionally see police in US terminals touting a MP3 or similar unlike many major European or even major Asian airports. I honestly don't think I could walk from one end of a terminal at Heathrow or HKG to the other without coming across a pair of police with submachine guns in the secure or unsecure areas . Maybe the police need to have a more visible show of force in US airports to discourage this type of random violence. The dedicated AQ terrorist isn't going to be scared off but the casual nut, which seems to be the case here, or "amateur" terrorist may think twice if he knows he could take a magazine of 9mm rounds in his chest in the first few seconds of his waving a weapon in the terminal.
 
BoeingMerica
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:01 pm

Since he made it through the security checkpoint, that is suppose to be a sterile area, what are the chances an air Marshall waiting for a flight was the one that ended up putting the perpetrator down?

Thank god he was neutralized quickly, LAX shooting could have been FAR FAR worse. It appears that thankfully, he was only interested in a specific subset of individuals

BoeingMerica
I like my Barack like I like my vegetables, I hate vegetables
 
prosa
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 109):
You only occasionally see police in US terminals touting a MP3 or similar unlike many major European or even major Asian airports. I honestly don't think I could walk from one end of a terminal at Heathrow or HKG to the other without coming across a pair of police with submachine guns in the secure or unsecure areas . Maybe the police need to have a more visible show of force in US airports to discourage this type of random violence. The dedicated AQ terrorist isn't going to be scared off but the casual nut, which seems to be the case here, or "amateur" terrorist may think twice if he knows he could take a magazine of 9mm rounds in his chest in the first few seconds of his waving a weapon in the terminal.

You'd need plainclothes police for that to work, otherwise the casual nut/amateur terrorist would just shoot the police first.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:27 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 103):

on my last vacations to tuerkey, even at 'tourism heavy' Airports, everyone was fully screened before entering the terminal

Moving checkpoints is worthless as you would be simply shifting the location of a tragedy to another crowded spot.

Anyhow, the Turkish screening motive is for something else, not a mass shooter, but concern over something else of greater worry.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 109):
Every security station I've been through seems to have an armed police officer sitting right there or very close. What happened here? There seem to be no news reports of the guy meeting resistance till he had penetrated to the gates or a police officer being hurt.

Wont get into security specifics, but LEO deployment procedures and priorities in US have changed.
LAWA PD was where they needed to be.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Stackhouse007
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:51 pm

According to twitter, terminals and roads are open again at LAX except for terminal 3, only the ticket counters are open. How are the airlines that use terminal 3 dealing with this? Do we know how long they will keep terminal 3 closed for investigating?
Nikon D60: 18-55mm - 55-200mm / Canon 50D: 100-400mm
 
bmacleod
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:22 pm

This is the second time it has happened at LAX ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Lo...les_International_Airport_shooting

Now 12 years after 9/11, you'd think most U.S. airports especially LAX after an incident like that would have tightened security procedures including metal detectors near the terminal check-in area....

Frankly I'm at a loss of words here....
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
TwoFourLeft
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:05 pm

RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting stackhouse007 (Reply 113):
How are the airlines that use terminal 3 dealing with this?
Quoting TwoFourLeft (Reply 88):
LAWA director said T3 airlines might be able to resume operations, but as a "bussing operation" until the terminal reopens.

It looks like this plan was put into place since the ticket counters are in use but not the gates.
 
HNL
Posts: 473
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:30 pm

What terminal are Virgin America, Allegiant, Jet Blue, and Virgin Australia departing from? Are passengers being bussed to the remote stands on the west side of the field?
HNL - There's no place like it!
 
studedave
Posts: 474
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:53 pm

Quoting HNL (Reply 116):
What terminal are Virgin America, Allegiant, Jet Blue, and Virgin Australia departing from? Are passengers being bussed to the remote stands on the west side of the field?

Last night's news (KCBS) said something to that effect, yes.
But they also said that some flights may leave from some of the other terminals.
The recommendation was to call your airline ahead of time to find out where your plane might be.




StudeDave

[Edited 2013-11-02 10:55:08]
Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
 
HNL
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:51 am

RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:02 pm

Quoting STUDEDAVE (Reply 117):
Last night's news (KCBS) said something to that effect, yes.
But they also said that some flights may leave from some of the other terminals.
The recommendation was to call your airline ahead of time to find out where your plane might be.



Yes - but what terminals are the passengers being sent to?
HNL - There's no place like it!
 
TwoFourLeft
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:05 pm

RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:08 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 105):
perhaps we need at major USA airport terminals more security at entrances to terminals

In the wake of this incident, I agree. I'm not a security expert, but I think it would be more of a deterrent (and would make for more effective response) if there were police officers by the terminal entrance, lobby, and ticket counter areas at all times. I know they usually do walk through a lot, but I think having someone there in plain sight in a fixed location at all times would make it seem like there is more of a permanent police presence. I don't know whether this would even be possible with the current number of police officers as well as when cost is taken into consideration, but it does sound like a good idea to me (again, I'm not an expert and this is just an opinion).

I agree with the comments the Chief of the LAWAPD made yesterday about having officers stationed before the security checkpoint as well. I know there is a desk with airport police located just past the checkpoint in every terminal at LAX (there is usually someone there, though I think I have seen it unmanned a couple of times, mostly at off-peak hours). Knowing that the desk is there made me sort of confused as to how the shooter made it so far into the terminal. Perhaps it might not have been manned at the time. I don't know, there are a lot of possible factors (sound of the gunshots bouncing around the terminal making it hard to tell exactly where they were coming from, identifying the shooter in a crowded terminal with everyone running everywhere, etc.). But that is why there is an investigation, and hopefully they can get a better picture of how this happened and find ways to prevent it from happening again.

Regardless of what changes are made, I am very thankful that the Airport Police are some of the best-trained in the country and that they responded to the situation to the best of their abilities. It could have been much worse if they hadn't stopped him when they did. They are heroes.
 
reality
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:12 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 114):
Now 12 years after 9/11, you'd think most U.S. airports especially LAX after an incident like that would have tightened security procedures including metal detectors near the terminal check-in area....

An unbalanced person intent on killing will just shoot people outside the terminal in the line waiting to get into the terminal. Or at the movie theater. Or at the shopping center. Or in the line at an Apple store waiting to get in when a new phone is announced. Etc. Etc. There are thousands of places where people gather in large numbers. You can't protect everyone everywhere all the time. There is no such thing as 100% security. That's just the way things are.
 
TwoFourLeft
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:05 pm

RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:16 pm

Quoting HNL (Reply 118):
Yes - but what terminals are the passengers being sent to?

via LAX Twitter account:

"For all T3 flights please check in at T3. Airline reps there will tell you what terminal your flight is taking off from. Thank you"

As to where flights are operating to/from, I took a look at Flightaware. One of the examples I found is this JetBlue flight from BOS arriving at Gate 5 (Terminal 1):

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU287

Frontier flight from DEN arriving at Gate 24A (Terminal 2):
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FFT405
 
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cougar15
Posts: 1422
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:22 pm

Quoting reality (Reply 120):

right you are. RIP for the poor TSA guy, I guess this is one battle nobody can win, no matter where the security checks take place.......
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
TwoFourLeft
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:05 pm

RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:33 pm

Quoting TwoFourLeft (Reply 122):

Sorry for the repetitive post. It didn't post at first, so I re-typed it.
 
opethfan
Posts: 940
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:56 pm

Quoting reality (Reply 120):

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Such a truth which we as a society have completely forgotten.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 24003
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:03 pm

FBI just released T-3 back to LAWA at 1300LT.

Once terminal is made sterile and repopulated with employees will resume normal operations, estimated within the hour.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 24003
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:17 pm

Quoting TwoFourLeft (Reply 119):
. I know there is a desk with airport police located just past the checkpoint in every terminal at LAX (there is usually someone there, though I think I have seen it unmanned a couple of times, mostly at off-peak hours). Knowing that the desk is there made me sort of confused as to how the shooter made it so far into the terminal. Perhaps it might not have been manned at the time. I don't know, there are a lot of possible factors

As I posted earlier, there has been changes to deployment of LEO's at check-points.

There was no officer at the checkpoint per new policy. Officer deployment profiles in terminals were changed per Federal guidelines.

Per initial reports, this revised deployment pattern actually helped by minimizing LEO response times inside the terminal. (on purpose I am leaving out details as specifics)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:38 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 114):
Now 12 years after 9/11, you'd think most U.S. airports especially LAX after an incident like that would have tightened security procedures including metal detectors near the terminal check-in area....

I think you need to re-evaluate the risks here. Your chances of getting killed in a Airport shooting is far lower than driving to the Airport.

Its lower than taking a shower. Are you going to stop taking showers without armed escorts and paramedics on hand?

More security isn't required. We are already well past being safer than normal life. They will of course evaluate the event to see what improvements with existing resources can be made.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4714
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:41 am

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 114):
you'd think most U.S. airports especially LAX after an incident like that would have tightened security procedures including metal detectors near the terminal check-in area....

... and then this shooting would have happened there.


The only way you're idea would work is if everyone were required to go through screening upon leaving their home.

And that's just the practical bits. The 4th Amendment, while severely eroded, would still prevent such a scenario from happening... not to mention the current SCOTUS views on the 2nd Amendment.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:19 am

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 114):
This is the second time it has happened at LAX ....


I was aware of that incident when I made the earlier post on here. He was also a lone nut but he also attacked the one airline ticket counter that will fight back. A lot of the checkpoints don't have that capability although reading through the full thread it sounds like LAWA has a duty desk nearby.
 
shufflemoomin
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:04 am

RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:26 am

Here we go again. An incident happens ONCE and already people are talking about which major changes we should make to the travel experience and which freedoms we should give up to maybe lower the chances of it ever happening again. Aren't Americans paranoid enough already?
 
rwy04lga
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:21 am

RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:52 am

Quoting trex8 (Reply 109):
You only occasionally see police in US terminals touting a MP3

You mean an MP3 Player?
I Googled 'MP3' and found no reference to a gun or rifle (assuming that's what you implied).
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
Heinkel
Posts: 235
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:09 pm

I think he meant MP5. Google for it.
 
trex8
Posts: 5365
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:26 pm

Quoting Heinkel (Reply 132):
I think he meant MP5. Google for it.

correct

shouldnt type with the ipod in your ear!!
 
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exFWAOONW
Posts: 686
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RE: Lax Evacuated - Breaking News

Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:14 pm

Quoting flydeltajets (Reply 95):
We tried the no security way and that lead to 100s of planes being hijacked for Cuba.

You might want to re-count. And just how many want to go to Cuba today? I think that the desire to go to Cuba has deteriorated as quickly as the living conditions in Cuba.

Quoting reality (Reply 120):
There is no such thing as 100% security. That's just the way things are.

   Anyone who thinks breathing should be risk free needs to be quiet and let the adults handle this.

Quoting opethfan (Reply 124):
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Such a truth which we as a society have completely forgotten.

  

As a nation, we've done the latest generation a grave disservice, handing out trophies just for showing up, and not every time, either. Now, they have no skills at handling trouble or dissappointments in life. I'm afraid it will only get worse in the years to come.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?

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