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1337Delta764
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56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:10 pm

According to this thread at FT:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...elta-new-737-900er-interior-6.html

56 DL 757-200s are to be refurbished with new interiors. The mods will consist of new seats, AVOD, AC power outlets, and live satellite TV (except on the Tokyo-based aircraft). The new seating configuration will be 20F/28EC/151Y, reducing the F seat count to 20 and brining in the F/Y ratio in-line with the rest of the domestic fleet.

The reduction of the F cabin is a little disappointing, however, it is good to hear that DL will be upgrading the IFE on these aircraft. Domestic AVOD is alive and kickin' on DL.

[Edited 2013-11-05 12:13:46]
 
CV880
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:19 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
The new seating configuration will be 20F/28EC/151Y,

Wow....199 seats.....packing 'em in.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:21 pm

Quoting cv880 (Reply 1):
Wow....199 seats.....packing 'em in.

FYI, all Y seats (other than exit rows) will have 31" pitch. Slightly better than the 739ER with 30-31" pitch seats. There will be a few rows of EC that will be forward of the 2R door.

[Edited 2013-11-05 12:27:54]
 
abirda
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:23 pm

I'm surprised to hear that they didn't take the chance to introduce a WiFi streaming-based solution and save some weight and complexity. Seems like that could have provided some valuable fuel savings on their aging fleet, especially on the Asian sub-fleet in which live TV is a non-issue.

Of course, given that the source is a FlyerTalk thread, we can take any prognostications with a grain of salt.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:25 pm

Quoting abirda (Reply 3):
I'm surprised to hear that they didn't take the chance to introduce a WiFi streaming-based solution and save some weight and complexity. Seems like that could have provided some valuable fuel savings on their aging fleet, especially on the Asian sub-fleet in which live TV is a non-issue.

Of course, given that the source is a FlyerTalk thread, we can take any prognostications with a grain of salt.

Nope, if you look at who was posting in the thread, you can see that it is official (hint: the username is in green letters). Also, AVOD usage still greatly outnumbers streaming Wi-Fi on DL, and DL probably took this into account before making a decision of whether or not to include AVOD on these aircraft; DL is not stupid.

[Edited 2013-11-05 12:25:47]
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:26 pm

Quoting abirda (Reply 3):
Of course, given that the source is a FlyerTalk thread, we can take any prognostications with a grain of salt.

Confirmed by DL product peeps. The reconfig brings FC/YC ratios to an average of 10% across the fleet which was their goal. Better matching product demand (who pays for F) with avail seats.

Medallions (myself included) are frustrated and will continue to be, but Delta's making money for now...time will tell when things change if these moves from a loyalty perspective will pay out.
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:26 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):

FYI, all Y seats will have 31" pitch. Slightly better than the 739ER with 30-31" pitch seats. There will be a few rows of EC that will be forward of the starboard boarding door.

There is no such thing as a starboard boarding door since all boarding of airliners is done through the port side.

Quoting cv880 (Reply 1):
Wow....199 seats.....packing 'em in.

This number is significant, because 2 more seats would require an extra flight attendant.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
except on the Tokyo-based aircraft).

I am wondering how long the hub in NRT will last? SFO is getting axed in favor of SEA, and DL seems to have quietly pulled a few cities out. Given that KE is over at ICN and DL can route asian connections through there, is this the way DL goes forward?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:27 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
There is no such thing as a starboard boarding door since all boarding of airliners is done through the port side.

Sorry, I meant the 2R door.
 
abirda
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:31 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
Also, AVOD usage still greatly outnumbers streaming Wi-Fi on DL, and DL probably took this into account before making a decision of whether or not to include AVOD on these aircraft; DL is not stupid.

No one is saying DL is stupid. My position is that the Asian sub-fleet would have provided a valuable test bed for what is clearly the direction the industry is going. It will only remain viable for so long to provide screens to a population that, by and large, brings its own screens on board.

The other thing to keep in mind is that we are replacing our entertainment consumption devices much more often than the airlines are able to when they're built into the cabin. That leaves individuals much better able to keep pace with new developments.

Seems like someone must be having these conversations behind closed doors.
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:32 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
I am wondering how long the hub in NRT will last? SFO is getting axed in favor of SEA, and DL seems to have quietly pulled a few cities out. Given that KE is over at ICN and DL can route asian connections through there, is this the way DL goes forward?

NRT will only remain to serve places too far out from SEA (e.g. BKK and SIN)

KE/ICN is definitely a non-starter for now given the DL/KE relationship (i'm going to avoid assigning blame on whose fault it is to make the relationship so sour)
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:45 pm

Quoting abirda (Reply 8):
No one is saying DL is stupid. My position is that the Asian sub-fleet would have provided a valuable test bed for what is clearly the direction the industry is going. It will only remain viable for so long to provide screens to a population that, by and large, brings its own screens on board.

The other thing to keep in mind is that we are replacing our entertainment consumption devices much more often than the airlines are able to when they're built into the cabin. That leaves individuals much better able to keep pace with new developments.

Seems like someone must be having these conversations behind closed doors.

DL already has streaming video available on several domestic aircraft; it was first introduced on the 753s and is now being rolled out fleet-wide. I am pretty sure that DL already has some usage statistics on the streaming video, and it looks like that there just isn't enough usage to warrant removing in-seat AVOD.
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:53 pm

Quoting abirda (Reply 8):
No one is saying DL is stupid. My position is that the Asian sub-fleet would have provided a valuable test bed for what is clearly the direction the industry is going. It will only remain viable for so long to provide screens to a population that, by and large, brings its own screens on board.

If they were to use the same streaming wifi service that UA is/will be using, then that service currently has large blackout areas in Asia, if I remember correctly. That will likely change as the service becomes more popular with airlines as coverage will improve, but streaming wifi is at present a better option in other parts of the world. UA will start the service on new config Hawaii-version 772s, then expanding it to the domestic fleet, then long haul. If DL were to move to streaming wifi, I would imagine they would also start domestically before branching out.
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:57 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 10):
DL already has streaming video available on several domestic aircraft

I'm aware of that initiative. My question is not whether it's worth rippign out existing AVOD installations. It's probably not. Instead, I suspect that WiFi streaming by itself would be a stronger strategy going forward for DL, especially given the company's reluctance when it comes to capital expenditures.

As for the new 199 configuration, sounds like a sardine can. Hope it doesn't backfire for them.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 11):
If they were to use the same streaming wifi service that UA is/will be using, then that service currently has large blackout areas in Asia

This is a good point. I will admit, I'm not up to speed on the logistics of worldwide deployment.

[Edited 2013-11-05 13:00:43]
 
globalflyer
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:00 pm

So are these the remaining DL 752s that have not been converted and all of the former NWA birds?
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:48 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
Also, AVOD usage still greatly outnumbers streaming Wi-Fi on DL, and DL probably took this into account before making a decision of whether or not to include AVOD on these aircraft; DL is not stupid.

Part of that is likely due to the limited number of devices capable of actually using it as well as most folks usually have some movies or TV shows on their devices anyway. At first, only laptops and netbooks were able to access it and even now, only some tablets are able to get the entertainment options from the Delta Connect portal. With most folks having movies and TV shows on their laptops or tablets, it makes little sense for Delta to expand their current program beyond what planes that currently offer it.
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:24 pm

With the A321's and 739's coming on-line,I'm surprised they're spending money on the 752's.
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:29 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 22):
With the A321's and 739's coming on-line,I'm surprised they're spending money on the 752's.

The 752 aircraft being upgraded are the youngest in the fleet and have many good years of service left in them. All will have winglets, a reconfigured cabin and AVOD. The mid galley will be removed to make more room for seats.
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:35 pm

I did a lot of domestic and intl flying on DL this year, the most recent flights as a Gold Medallion. Most of the non 757 aircraft have about 3 rows of First and upgrades were rare when I was Silver. On the 757 with 8 or more rows of F, everybody and their dog got upgraded. I guess Delta realized that flying all those 757s with a huge F cabin to leisure destinations in Florida fills up first class with people who didn't pay for it.

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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting B757forever (Reply 23):
The 752 aircraft being upgraded are the youngest in the fleet and have many good years of service left in them. All will have winglets, a reconfigured cabin and AVOD. The mid galley will be removed to make more room for seats.

This makes total sense. On the PMNW 757's, the after right fed galley could easily be removed. We are going on a cruise in January and I book priority YC seats--that extra few inches does make a difference. It is proving increasingly popular. It also appears that DL is trying to rationalize and reduce the number of 757 sub-types in the fleet with more commonality, too.
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CRJ900
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:09 pm

Sounds like aircraft flying in the US are becoming more and more European, interior-wise. 199 seats in the B752 and 234(?) seats in the B753 and 180 seats in the B738/739... then again, European low-cost carriers and charter carriers are raking in money, so there must be something to it.
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:29 pm

199 seats is a lot for a 752. And the F-ratio would be worse than the 739s. I like flying the 752 because of the interior size relative to the capacity. Looks like that advantage will essentially disappear.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:36 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19):
they could be just rolling the dice and hoping it pays off. You don't know that

Seems like UA is the one who is rolling the dice. DL is playing it safe by trying to avoid alienating its FFs. A reduction in F seats is already a risky move, and DL likely doesn't want to take any additional chances by removing in-seat IFE on domestic flights.
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:40 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 29):
Seems like UA is the one who is rolling the dice. DL is playing it safe by trying to avoid alienating its FFs.

Playing it safe by installing heavy and expensive AVOD that not many people use in hopes it will make a profit??? I love Delta and hope they are making the right choice, and their management today is excellent, but none of what you're saying is proven fact so don't act like it is. You make a claim presented as a fact, give evidence! Or just present it as an opinion like we all do
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:42 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 29):
Seems like UA is the one who is rolling the dice. DL is playing it safe by trying to avoid alienating its FFs. A reduction in F seats is already a risky move, and DL likely doesn't want to take any additional chances by removing in-seat IFE on domestic flights.

Agreed. Step on a new refurbished A320 by UA. The seats in coach at least are horrible. When anyone in the row moves you feel it, so flimy and no PTVs. I hated my cross country trip in those seats. My return was an older 757 and the seats were so much more comfortable and heavy duty. UA is rolling the dice with those seats and no PTVs. Might work out really well for them financially though? I think people on here talk about wifi streaming way more than normal people are using it. PTVs are really popular whenever im on a plane with them.
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:46 am

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 24):
On the 757 with 8 or more rows of F, everybody and their dog got upgraded.

Huht? There are no 757's with 8 rows of F.
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:46 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
There will be a few rows of EC that will be forward of the 2R door.

DL's initial 757 configuration:

Between the first and second door:
16 First Class seats (4 rows)
15 Coach seats (2 rows of 6 seats and 1 row of 3 seats)

http://www.departedflights.com/DL7571092.jpg


So if there will be 5 rows of First Class, can they really fit even two rows of Economy Comfort?
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:02 am

The thing about having AVOD is that you can guarantee....and advertise....that entertainment is available to all passengers. You don't have to qualify it with....."if you bring a wi-fi enabled viewing device along". Regardless of how "techy" some of us are, not everyone travels with "a viewing device".

Having to balance a "viewing device" on either the tray table or your lap to watch a movie has got to be worse than having the screen imbedded in the seat in front of you. Plus the AVOD screen is more than likely much bigger and doesn't get in the way of people trying to exit their seats. This is especially true in coach of course.

DL made the most money of all US carriers...and probably world carriers...last quarter. One would assume there are good reasons for that....including that they are making smart decisions on how to spend their money. Considering that AVOD has got to be substantially more expensive than wi-fi servers and is heavier, one has to assume they did the calculations and believe it is the better choice.....money wise. A lot of times going the cheapest way is not the best in the end game.

Jim
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:08 am

Quoting deltacto (Reply 33):

So if there will be 5 rows of First Class, can they really fit even two rows of Economy Comfort?

On the 2R side, DL can remove the lavatory and move it to the left side forward of the 2L door (replacing the galley or closet located there), while adding seats on 2R side, with no window seat in front of the door. This is similar to how US' A321s and most of their 757s are configured, as well as DL's 75Ns. DL could also have all three Y lavatories at the rear of the aircraft like the 739ER.
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:35 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
The reduction of the F cabin is a little disappointing, however, it is good to hear that DL will be upgrading the IFE on these aircraft. Domestic AVOD is alive and kickin' on DL.

I agree the reduction from 6-7 rows in first sucks! Upgrade chances are always higher on a 757 due to the higher number of seats. Remember DL is most loyal to cash medallions.
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:55 am

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 11):
If they were to use the same streaming wifi service that UA is/will be using, then that service currently has large blackout areas in Asia, if I remember correctly. That will likely change as the service becomes more popular with airlines as coverage will improve, but streaming wifi is at present a better option in other parts of the world.

You are talking about two different things. UAs WiFi system which is satellite based and does have some black out areas. UAs streaming video system works world wide as the content is carried on board the aircraft. While you do connect through the WiFi portal there is no ground connection required.

DL is using GoGo vision IIRC....you do need a connection to use it.
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:04 am

Quoting DLdiamondboy (Reply 36):
Remember DL is most loyal to cash medallions.

As it should be......
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
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1337Delta764
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:32 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 37):
DL is using GoGo vision IIRC....you do need a connection to use it.

Actually, Gogo Vision uses an onboard server as well; no ground connection is required as far as I know.
 
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enilria
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:42 am

This part of DL's ongoing plan to push Golds to EC.
 
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:13 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 39):
Quoting United1 (Reply 37):
DL is using GoGo vision IIRC....you do need a connection to use it.

Actually, Gogo Vision uses an onboard server as well; no ground connection is required as far as I know.

fairly certain that you need a connection with GoGo as every movie and video is charged for....ie they have to process the CC transaction.
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max999
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:16 am

Quoting abirda (Reply 8):
The other thing to keep in mind is that we are replacing our entertainment consumption devices much more often than the airlines are able to when they're built into the cabin. That leaves individuals much better able to keep pace with new developments.

I think it's a pretentious assumption that everyone will bring their own device. Not sure what airline you work for, but Wi-Fi streaming excludes those who didn't bring their device while AVOD is inclusive of everyone.

Also, a traditional AVOD screen is a better watching experience than using a tablet or phone. For the phone, you're holding it in your hands until it grows tired and the tablet is awkwardly positioned on the tray table. The AVOD screen is positioned directly in front.

I don't think any of us on here have the data and numbers to prove or disprove the 'profitability' of AVOD. However, I can state that from a customer service perspective, AVOD is a good move and that's what I care about as a paying customer. I don't think anyone can argue that.

[Edited 2013-11-05 19:19:03]
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solarflyer22
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:05 am

Well I love the 757 and if the interior is clean and modern and I will be happy to fly in one of these birds TransCon or TATL anytime.
 
michman
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:32 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 41):
fairly certain that you need a connection with GoGo as every movie and video is charged for....ie they have to process the CC transaction.

They could very well wait until they are on the ground to process the credit card transactions. This is how the handheld scanners work they use to sell food/drink items. Since the 753's are routinely used to Hawaii, my guess is that they wait until the flight is over.

[Edited 2013-11-05 21:33:31]
 
audidudi
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:58 am

Here's the list of the 56 aircraft:

#685 N685DL #5635 N535US #5550 N550NW #6707 N6707A
#686 N686DA #5636 N536US #5561 N551NW #6708 N6708D
#687 N687DL #5637 N537US #5562 N552NW #6709 N6709
#688 N688DL #5638 N538US #5563 N553NW #6710 N6710E
#689 N689DL #5639 N539US #5564 N554NW #6711 N6711M
#690 N690DL #5640 N540US #5655 N555NW #6712 N6712B
#691 N900PC #5641 N541US #5656 N556NW #6713 N6713Y
#692 N692DL #5642 N542US #5657 N557NW #6714 N6714Q
#693 N693DL #5643 N543US #6700 N6700 #6715 N6715C
#694 N694DL #5644 N544US #6701 N6701 #6716 N6716C
#695 N695DL #5645 N545US #6702 N6702 #6717 N67171
#696 N696DL #5646 N546US #6703 N6703D
#697 N697DL #5647 N547US #6704 N6704Z
#698 N698DL #5648 N548US #6705 N6705Y
#699 N699DL #5649 N549US #6706 N6706Q

[Edited 2013-11-05 22:06:28]
 
Prost
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:26 am

Are they going to put in new overhead bins?
 
rwy04lga
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:30 am

Quoting abirda (Reply 26):
You know gate agents will appreciate a reduction in sub-types on seating configurations.

Until there is one type (no sub-types), they'll still have to visually check the number of rows/seats to make sure it jives with SNAPP.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 27):
European low-cost carriers and charter carriers are raking in money, so there must be something to it.

Delta isn't raking, it's using one of them there new-fangled huge vacuum thingys.  
Quoting deltacto (Reply 33):

Note that there's limited recline in 11DEF. 50% LESS recline in YC??
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
United1689
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:29 am

Will these 757s get the Boeing Sky Interior?

Here is a company that supposedly makes a similar cabin retrofit for the 757...
Youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWClNq3aQJQ
PDF:
http://www.heath.com/Files/Marketing...teral/ht_project_amber_071012.aspx

United1689
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:52 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 29):
You are talking about two different things. UAs WiFi system which is satellite based and does have some black out areas. UAs streaming video system works world wide as the content is carried on board the aircraft. While you do connect through the WiFi portal there is no ground connection required.

Ah, I didn't know that. I thought it was just better connection speeds, but it certainly makes more sense to carry the content on-board and create your own signal.
 
fun2fly
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:05 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 15):
With the A321's and 739's coming on-line,I'm surprised they're spending money on the 752's.

Especially since UA states for every 739ER they put into service they save $2-2.5mm annually.

Quoting B757forever (Reply 16):
The 752 aircraft being upgraded are the youngest in the fleet and have many good years of service left in them. All will have winglets, a reconfigured cabin and AVOD. The mid galley will be removed to make more room for seats.

UA was mocked pretty heavily for making interior upgrades for units that will fly only a couple of years before being entirely phased out. What is the lifespan of these units? 5 years? We're talking DL and they just retired the DC9 so you never know - ti just may be 15.

As a DL gold medallion, I do see the squeeze here, but I realize it's the same # of BF whether or not it is a 757 or 739 so let it be.
 
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scbriml
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:14 pm

Quoting airtechy (Reply 26):
Having to balance a "viewing device" on either the tray table or your lap to watch a movie has got to be worse than having the screen imbedded in the seat in front of you.

That really depends. I'm very tall and I can never get a decent viewing angle with a seat-back screen. The situation only gets worse if the person in front reclines their seat. I'd take an airline provided iPad over the seat-back screen any day (in economy).
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
B757Forever
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:16 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 42):
What is the lifespan of these units? 5 years? We're talking DL and they just retired the DC9 so you never know - ti just may be 15.

Most of these will be in service 10-13 more years. Retirements will eventually coincide with due dates for HMV4.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:30 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 42):

UA was mocked pretty heavily for making interior upgrades for units that will fly only a couple of years before being entirely phased out. What is the lifespan of these units? 5 years? We're talking DL and they just retired the DC9 so you never know - ti just may be 15.

The fact that DL is flying 757s from 1985 suggests that these tranches of 757 aircraft 1995 and newer have a lot of life yet. On a seat-mile basis 757s have a lower fuel cost than A319s - and Delta has plenty of routes where they have demand at good yields to fill a 757.

DL put lie-flat seats and coach AVOD into 744s that entered service in 1989. It did the same for 767-300ERs from 1990. I don't believe those actions reflect altruism, but instead a matter of giving customers what they value even if the expense needs to be amortized over a relatively short life span.
 
n7371f
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:32 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
According to this thread at FT:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...elta-new-737-900er-interior-6.html

56 DL 757-200s are to be refurbished with new interiors. The mods will consist of new seats, AVOD, AC power outlets, and live satellite TV (except on the Tokyo-based aircraft). The new seating configuration will be 20F/28EC/151Y, reducing the F seat count to 20 and brining in the F/Y ratio in-line with the rest of the domestic fleet.

The reduction of the F cabin is a little disappointing, however, it is good to hear that DL will be upgrading the IFE on these aircraft. Domestic AVOD is alive and kickin' on DL.

Posted this about two months ago...
 
VictorKilo
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:58 pm

Based on the list above, it looks like DL's 752 fleet going forward will consist of 73 aircraft:

32 -232 PMDL all built after 1995
23 -251 PMNW all built after 1995
1 -26D PMDL built in 1997 (with a Shanghai Airlines customer code)
9 -2Q8 ex-TW all bult after 1996 in an international configuration (with an ILFC customer code)
8 -231 ex-TW all built after 1997 in an international configuration

DL will not invest in 67 aircraft that will probably be replaced by 739 on order:

51 -232 PMDL all built prior to 1993
12 -251 PMNW all built prior to 1988
4 -212 ex-ATA built in 1984 (with a Singapore Airlines customer code)

Interestingly, not included on this list is N624AG, which has a -2Q8 ILFC customer code, was delivered to AeroMexico in 1993 and DL leased in 2011 from ACG (and had winglets installed prior to delivery to DL). Perhaps this indicates a short-term lease and this bird is not long for the DL fleet.
 
fun2fly
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:32 pm

Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 47):
Based on the list above, it looks like DL's 752 fleet going forward will consist of 73 aircraft:

32 -232 PMDL all built after 1995
23 -251 PMNW all built after 1995
1 -26D PMDL built in 1997 (with a Shanghai Airlines customer code)
9 -2Q8 ex-TW all bult after 1996 in an international configuration (with an ILFC customer code)
8 -231 ex-TW all built after 1997 in an international configuration

Got it. 17 International birds, 56 domestic, + their 753's. Looks like they ran the #'s and keeping these + 199 seat reconfig costs was cheaper than new 739er's or perhaps simply balances debt better. Either way, a refurbished 752 is a nice ride and DL's needed something done to them. I hope the 753's get similar treatment, the ride last week on those was pretty dismal - unclean and no IFE due to overhead failures made it a long flight to LAS.
 
xdlx
Posts: 975
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RE: 56 DL 752s To Be Refurbished, To Be Reduced To 20F

Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:47 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 20):

All depends... Spirit packs that many in a A320

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