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Boeing727
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What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:15 am

Good Evening Everyone,

I did some search on the L1011 name, but did not come up with any reasonable explanation in my short search. At the 30:38 mark the RR engineer talks about engine no 1011...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfomloUg2Gw

Would an airplane manufacturer name an aircraft after it's engines?

Just wondering and thanks...

Boeing727
 
reality
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:28 am

According to a 2005 thread on this subject, this may be the answer:

Dtw9
L-1011 came from different design study numbers that Lockheed gave the aircraft during development. The CL1011-28 was a Twin engine design. CL-1011-30,31,32,33 were original trijet designs. CL-1011-365 was a 227 pass 320,000 mgw version of early 1967. Final design that was launched was the L1011-385

See: What's In A Name? L-1011 (by ODwyerPW Jan 10 2005 in Civil Aviation) ...for other possible reasons.
 
L-188
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:43 am

its just the way that Lockheed tended to number their civilian aircraft.

Where Boeing would go and add 'dash' numbers to the end of the aircraft name for each successive variation, (737-100, 737-200, 737-300 ad nausum). Lockheed on the other had would put them on the front of the aircraft type. That is why the L-748 Constellation is and earlier version of the L-1048. The are the seventh and tenth models respectively.

My username is the Lockheed L-188 Electra. Basicly it is the first series of the 88th model. If Lockheed had developed an updated version (they didn't to our collective loss IMHO) it would have been the L-288.

And keep in mind this is a guideline. There is the long range L-1011-500 and of course the civilian Herks are L-100-10 or 20 or 30 depending on length.
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Boeing727
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:08 pm

Thanks for the replies and explanations. I did not think that Lockheed would rely on their engine manufacturer to determine the aircraft name; this rather interesting documentary on the manufacturing of and the history of Trent engines made me wonder about it though.

Thanks again,

Boeing727
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:02 pm

Of course most a.netters know the vernacular name for the venerable 1011 was the "Tristar", a name chosen during a contest for Lockheed employees in keeping with their tradition of naming aircraft types after parts of the solar system. At DL they had the irreverent name of "Tritanic."
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vzlet
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:16 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 4):
naming aircraft types after parts of the solar system

I think Lockheed's vision extended further than that!  
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B757Forever
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:31 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 4):
At DL they had the irreverent name of "Tritanic."

It's funny how many things in this business get nicknames for no real reason. In DFW, we referred to the DL L1011 that flew DFW-HNL every morning as the "Kahuna". It really didn't mean anything its just that somebody called it that one time and somehow it stuck.
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:36 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
My username is the Lockheed L-188 Electra. Basicly it is the first series of the 88th model. If Lockheed had developed an updated version (they didn't to our collective loss IMHO) it would have been the L-288.

I think Embraer needs to take this strategy with the new E2 series. E-195-E2 is too complicated-- call it the E-295. So much better, IMO.
 
Rara
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:47 pm

As far I remember, the name L1011 was never in common use in Germany. We always referred to it as the Tristar (pronounced Tree-star   ).
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zippyjet
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:54 pm

Quoting vzlet (Reply 5):

People would have associated a solar system name with the 30's or 40's (design and launch of the Constellation)

Interestingly enough their small biz jet the Jetstar evokes a 1950's/1960's space age George Jetson Ultralounge image.
During that time I could imagine a name bandied about like jet-o-lator.
Or when the L1011 was in development something like Aquarius or Meteor Star.

I wonder if there are pictures of some of those Lockheed prototypes mention in this thread starter?
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spartanmjf
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:26 pm

Don't forget that Lockheed had already named the L329/L1329 the JetStar - a word used at least twice IIRC in Goldfinger......
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DualQual
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 8):

Not the "Drei"Star?     
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longhauler
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:06 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
That is why the L-748 Constellation is and earlier version of the L-1048.

Oh My!

Not here, on airliners.net!  
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 4):
At DL they had the irreverent name of "Tritanic."

Or the "Ten-a-Lemon".
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Natflyer
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:13 pm

Quoting Boeing727 (Thread starter):

Maybe a manufacturer would not name an aircraft after its engines, but when Loftleidir-Icelandic flew their pax converted 189 seat CL-44s transatlantic in the mid to late '60s, they marketed them as "Rolls Royce 400 Propjet" with 400 apparently being cruise speed in kilometers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadair_CL-44
 
VC10DC10
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:50 pm

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 13):

Maybe a manufacturer would not name an aircraft after its engines, but when Loftleidir-Icelandic flew their pax converted 189 seat CL-44s transatlantic in the mid to late '60s, they marketed them as "Rolls Royce 400 Propjet" with 400 apparently being cruise speed in kilometers.

Great point of trivia! Thanks for bringing this up. However, I think that the CL-44/"Rolls Royce 400 Propjet" was actually named for its cruise speed in statute miles per hour.
 
Natflyer
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:57 pm

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 14):

Come to think of it, you are probably right.
 
Viscount724
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:59 pm

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 13):
when Loftleidir-Icelandic flew their pax converted 189 seat CL-44s transatlantic in the mid to late '60s, they marketed them as "Rolls Royce 400 Propjet" with 400 apparently being cruise speed in kilometers.

I believe Lofleidir's CL-44s were built as passenger aircraft, not converted from freighters.
 
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vzlet
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:09 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 9):
People would have associated a solar system name with the 30's or 40's (design and launch of the Constellation)

I was thinking that, with the exception of "Shooting Star", Lockheed names tended to be taken from objects well beyond our solar system.
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JFKL1011
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:03 am

I may be wrong, but I believe the 1011 designation was based on the question asked "When will Rolls Royce finally get the engines ready for this aircraft?" The answer: "Hopefully within 10 or 11 years" =o)
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e38
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:46 am

Quoting previous information, "Maybe a manufacturer would not name an aircraft after its engines . . ."

and

"CL-44/"Rolls Royce 400 Propjet" was actually named for its cruise speed in statute miles per hour."

but, how about number of engines and number of passengers! I understand the Convair 240 was so named because it had two engines and was designed to carry forty passengers.

e38
 
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longhauler
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:54 am

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 13):
Maybe a manufacturer would not name an aircraft after its engines, but when Loftleidir-Icelandic flew their pax converted 189 seat CL-44s transatlantic in the mid to late '60s, they marketed them as "Rolls Royce 400 Propjet" with 400 apparently being cruise speed in kilometers.

Or BOAC with its Rolls Royce 707s:

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h...UraZAtGpqwG0xYHIBw&ved=0CEQQ9QEwAw
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Areopagus
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:03 am

Lockheed named several early planes for stars:
* Altair, Electra, Lodestar (=Polaris), Sirius, Vega
and then used constellations or asterisms:
* Orion, Hercules, Big Dipper, Little Dipper, and the generic Constellation
atmospheric phenomena:
* Lightning, Chain Lightning, Shooting Star
"Star" combining forms:
* Shooting Star, SeaStar, Starfire, Starfighter, StarLiner, JetStar, TriStar
a planet:
* Neptune
and a type of deep-space object:
* Galaxy
 
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zippyjet
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:06 am

Quoting e38 (Reply 19):

In todays world with how many pax can you cram in a can mentality that Convair 240 could have been made to stuff 48 passengers instead of the original 40.

Quoting vzlet (Reply 17):
I was thinking that, with the exception of "Shooting Star", Lockheed names tended to be taken from objects well beyond our solar system.

Bad Company would have loved that. One of their follow up hits back then was called Shooting Star. A 70's tragic melodrama in a song about a kid who becomes a rock star and ends up croaking before his time due to drugs. And I believe there was or is a porn star named Shooting Star. Have to check the Free Ones site for that info.   

And while I'm at it imagine an airliner conceived in the 1950's called the Jetsel (Edsel refference) or a 1950's bird called the Trojanaier!
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prebennorholm
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:45 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
...the L-748 Constellation is and earlier version of the L-1048. The are the seventh and tenth models respectively.

Yup, exactly (except that sure you mean 49, not 48). The Conny was the Lockheed Model 49.

It works all way from L-049 to L-1649 - with some gaps in the system. For instance L-249 was the XB-30 bomber proposal which already on the drawing board lost to the Boeing B-29.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
My username is the Lockheed L-188 Electra. Basicly it is the first series of the 88th model. If Lockheed had developed an updated version (they didn't to our collective loss IMHO) it would have been the L-288.

But it doesn't explain the number 1011. In that context the Tristar should have been L-193 since it is the Lockheed Model 93.

Also the zero in L-049 puzzles me.

In your context L-1011 should be the 10th version of Model 11. Model 11 was a never completed design study which was replaced by Model 12 Electra Junior in 1936. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Model_12_Electra_Junior

Also the Lockheed proposal for an SST should have been L-191 instead of L-2000.

There must be more to that number 1011. But what?
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Viscount724
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:53 am

Quoting Areopagus (Reply 21):
Lockheed named several early planes for stars:
* Altair, Electra, Lodestar (=Polaris), Sirius, Vega
and then used constellations or asterisms:
* Orion, Hercules, Big Dipper, Little Dipper, and the generic Constellation
atmospheric phenomena:
* Lightning, Chain Lightning, Shooting Star
"Star" combining forms:
* Shooting Star, SeaStar, Starfire, Starfighter, StarLiner, JetStar, TriStar
a planet:
* Neptune
and a type of deep-space object:
* Galaxy

Canada's versions of the P-3 Orion also have celestial names - Aurora and Arcturus, although I don't think Lockheed was responsible for those names.
 
jetstar
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:00 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
its just the way that Lockheed tended to number their civilian aircraft.

Where Boeing would go and add 'dash' numbers to the end of the aircraft name for each successive variation, (737-100, 737-200, 737-300 ad nausum). Lockheed on the other had would put them on the front of the aircraft type. That is why the L-748 Constellation is and earlier version of the L-1048. The are the seventh and tenth models respectively.

My username is the Lockheed L-188 Electra. Basicly it is the first series of the 88th model. If Lockheed had developed an updated version (they didn't to our collective loss IMHO) it would have been the L-288.

And keep in mind this is a guideline. There is the long range L-1011-500 and of course the civilian Herks are L-100-10 or 20 or 30 depending on length.

When Lockheed first designed the JetStar, it was known as a L-329 powered by 2 Bristol Siddley Orpheus engines, but the 4 engine production version is known as a L-1329 following what you said about upping the numbers for later versions.

But Lockheed followed Boeing’s designation system with the later JetStar’s, the first production version powered by the P&W JT12-6A engines is known as the L-1329-23, when Lockheed upgraded the JetStar with the more powerful JT12-8A engines, it was known as the L-1329-24, and when Lockheed came out with the last version, the JetStar II with the TFE-731 fan engines, it was known as a L-1329-25.

JetStar
 
dtw9
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:02 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 23):
Also the zero in L-049 puzzles me.

The L-049 was origianlly the Model 49 but in order to keep continuity with further developed models the designation was changed to the L-049. Hence the L-049, L-149,L-249 and so forth up to the L-1649.
 
nomadic
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:15 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 8):
As far I remember, the name L1011 was never in common use in Germany. We always referred to it as the Tristar (pronounced Tree-star ).

TWA was just the opposite. They never called it the Tristar but always refered to the aircraft as L-1011 in their advertising, timetables, etc and even the company newsletter. For a time large red characters 'L-1011' were painted on either side of the center engine.
 
cptkrell
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:52 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 4):
Of course most a.netters know the vernacular name for the venerable 1011 was the "Tristar", a name chosen during a contest for Lockheed employees in keeping with their tradition of naming aircraft types after parts of the solar system. At DL they had the irreverent name of "Tritanic."

"Star" had been part of the Lockheed naming for a bit. That the a/c was tri-engine and Star included it probably made perfect marketing sense irrespective of a vote. I think it's cool, anyway.

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 26):
The L-049 was origianlly the Model 49 but in order to keep continuity with further developed models the designation was changed to the L-049. Hence the L-049, L-149,L-249 and so forth up to the L-1649.

I'm thinking for Connies, you mean 049, then 649 up to the 1649 (minus a few preceding numbers). Back to the name, not the number, the 1649 was marketed as the "Starliner" (although Lufthansa dubbed theirs as the "Super Star" and Air France the "Super Starliner". Marketing-types had their say, even back then (remember the DC-7C being marketed as the "Seven Seas"? Nice play on pronunciations, no). But the name "Star" was not uncommon at Lockheed.

Back to referencing 1011 names, EAL marketed their L-1011s as "Whisperjets", a real oxymoron, but I think the term carried over to at least some other jets in the fleet. Some sick-types started calling them "swamp buggies" after MIA. 409.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 22):
And while I'm at it imagine an airliner conceived in the 1950's called the Jetsel (Edsel refference) or a 1950's bird called the Trojanaier!

Off-thread, but I remember being involved in the Ford Granada design program a million years ago. FoMoCo marketing was fooling with a "new" computer system to help name the yet-approved car. The marketers wanted a name that suggested "strong, quality-built, respected (read German engineering at the time)", and on. The computer spit out "Bismark". best regards...jack
all best; jack
 
dtw9
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:13 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 28):
I'm thinking for Connies, you mean 049, then 649 up to the 1649 (minus a few preceding numbers).

Lockheed had drawing board models for every number from 049 up to 1649. Some were built, many weren't.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:47 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 28):
Off-thread, but I remember being involved in the Ford Granada design program a million years ago. FoMoCo marketing was fooling with a "new" computer system to help name the yet-approved car. The marketers wanted a name that suggested "strong, quality-built, respected (read German engineering at the time)", and on. The computer spit out "Bismark". best regards...jack

And back in the 50's when FoMo was designing the T Bird one of the names they were seriously thinking was Hepcat!

Naming an airliner model 49 really sounds old time film noirish. In the 70's they could have called it the Motherload.
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cf6ppe
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:35 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 28):
EAL marketed their L-1011s as "Whisperjets", a real oxymoron,

The L1011s were the Whisperliners, while the B727 types where the Whisperjets..

I won't argue that the the use of Whisperjets on the B727s was the oxymoron.  
 
Viscount724
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:41 am

Quoting cf6ppe (Reply 31):
I won't argue that the the use of Whisperjets on the B727s was the oxymoron.

The name referred to the sound inside the cabin, not outside, and the 727 was significantly quieter inside than the 707s and DC-8s etc. Eastern also used the Whisperjet name on the DC-9.
 
cptkrell
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:31 pm

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 29):
Lockheed had drawing board models for every number from 049 up to 1649. Some were built, many weren't.

Right you are; I was thinking of those that made it into production. Wonder what they would have named the two style Turbine Super Connies they built for the military? When I say two (arguably three) style I mean the turbine nacelle variants.

Quoting cf6ppe (Reply 31):
The L1011s were the Whisperliners, while the B727 types where the Whisperjets..

Right you are also, sir. My memory has faded a bit. Thanks for the correction. best regards...jack
all best; jack
 
aviatorcraig
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:55 pm

Quoting e38 (Reply 19):
but, how about number of engines and number of passengers! I understand the Convair 240 was so named because it had two engines and was designed to carry forty passengers.

I don't buy that one. By that logic the Convair 580 had five engines and the Convair 990 Coronado had nine engines!   
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dtw9
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RE: What Is In The L-1011 Name...?

Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:03 pm

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 33):
Right you are; I was thinking of those that made it into production. Wonder what they would have named the two style Turbine Super Connies they built for the military? When I say two (arguably three) style I mean the turbine nacelle variants.



Here's a brief run down

L-149 was a light weight version of the L-049
L-249 four engine long range bomber to compete with the B-29. Military designation XB-30
L-349 was assigned to 30 PanAm ordered long range L-049"s in 1940/never built due to the war
L-449/L-549 improvements to the L-049 for post war service. Never built superseded by the L-649
L-649 see above
L-749 Long Range Connie with outer wing tanks
L-849 Basic L-749 with Wright R-3350 engines Later used on the L-1049/never built
L-949 High density layout that could be converted to freighter/never built
L-1049 stretched Super Connie
L-1149 proposed Allison turboprops
L-1249 Allison powered R7V-1's/four built
L-1349 Skipped number. Even Lockheed was superstitious
L-1449 drawing board model to stretch the 1049 55 inches and add turboprops
L-1549 further study to lengthen the L-1449 by another 7 feet
L-1649 Final Connie with new wing on the L-1049

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