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humanitarian
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:16 pm

About a year ago I was in a discussion where BA's name was mentioned as being interested in SJC. Btw, someone mentioned here that ANA's winter bookings at SJC are weak. One of the things that helps make the flight viable is the belly cargo. The flights in and out always have several pallets of cargo.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:12 pm

I would certainly think that BA is considering markets where AA (and US) have sizable FFer bases. Along the lines of recently added SAN and AUS, former hubs at BNA and STL are probably strong contenders. AA still does brisk business out of those markets. I also believe that a BA 787 may be much better suited to the RDU route than any current AA metal. If the merger does go through, I could see BA adding a CLT service to complement the existing daily flights (with the alliance transition, might as well reduce FRA from 2x daily to 1x daily and serve LHR 2x daily).

Beyond BNA/CLT/RDU/STL is anybody's guess. Sounds like MSY was right in the running with AUS, but New Orleans has such a poor corporate base that the state of Louisiana has to pay the Saints a multi-million dollar subsidy to keep the team from relocating to a market with better demographics! I'd be very surprised if MSY could reliably support the premium cabins that drive the profitability of long haul commercial service, and it's not like AA/US are all that strong in the market either. West Coast markets like PDX and SJC are quite close to existing BA gateways, and AA/US offer almost no FFer bases to help the flights. Some have suggested DL hub markets DTW, MSP, or SLC where the hub carrier has a lock on most of the premium FFer travel (again, AA/US are quite weak in these markets). I'm assuming they'll either be willing to challenge DL or try a niche market...

These suggestions like BDL, CLE, and PIT are within 757 range, and AA 757 service is probably a much better fit for them than a BA 787. I would expect AA/BA to eventually look a lot like DL/AF/KL, where operations are essentially metal-neutral.
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srbmod
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:55 pm

Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 95):
In terms of Florida, I'd say there's more chance of MCO gaining a LHR flight in addition to LGW or moving one of MCO or TPA than FLL for as long as MIA is served.

That's probably one of the more likely scenarios.

Quoting VCy (Reply 144):
I can see las vegas moving to gatwick to make some slots available
Quoting Johnwaynebobbet (Reply 146):
I believe it will stay at LHR as LGW already has a LAS flight.

When BA started service to LAS, it was from LHR and not LGW and the LGW service was added later. The LHR service obviously does well enough to keep and is likely why the LGW flight was added. BA could have just as easily started off flying to LAS from LGW, but LHR has prestige that LGW lacks and that's a way to poach customers from VS (who only flies from LGW and did not shift their service over to LHR when BA entered the market).

My thoughts:

MCO
TPA

Both cities see service to London stay at 7X a week, but frequencies will be split between LHR and LGW.

CLT

Of course depends on the outcome of the AA/US merger

SJC

Yes SFO is close enough to not warrant such a flight, but SJC caters to a slightly different market than SFO and the Silicon Valley folks would embrace this service more than one might think.

RDU

They take over the RDU-LHR from AA, allowing AA to use that a/c elsewhere in their network.
 
PHX787
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:49 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 152):
SJC

Yes SFO is close enough to not warrant such a flight, but SJC caters to a slightly different market than SFO and the Silicon Valley folks would embrace this service more than one might think.

The success of the current NH flight proves that BA can probably make a killing on a flight here too
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speedbird9
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:43 am

Sounds like positive news, plenty of growth for British Airways especially as the B787 should open up plenty of new routes/destinations for BA. Can't wait to find out which destinations are being launched.

I would like to see:
CLT,
IND,
HNL, (might be a good idea for LGW)
SLT,
DTW,
PDX.

Just my thoughts.

It appears Vueling are cancelling all flights to/from Heathrow. Perhaps the short haul flights are coming from Vueling? It's only 3 daily flight I believe, but then it means less will be cut from BA's own short haul feeder network.

Thanks
 
KD5MDK
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:43 am

If I were going to name 5 US cities which were going to get BA service that didn't have it already, I'd say:

SJC - Major tech business, pull traffic from SFO where the competition is stronger.
STL - Large city, large AA frequent flier base, unserved.
PIT - Legacy US passenger base, no UK flights currently.
BDL - High value market.
DTW - Too big of a city to overlook.

I rule out CLT and RDU because they have existing service on the same alliance (if merger) to LHR. Why duplicate the service or go through the hassle of cutting it with your partner?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:15 am

Delta has already expressed interest in starting SLC-LHR publicly awaiting the slots necessary. SLC probably is a good market and could support a BA 787 but the markets gonna get tough if/when delta does go in. Could BA really attempt this? Seems pretty risky but I bet you the SLC business community will contribute to offer a really nice package to BA.

I could definitely see them try CLT, BDL, SJC, or FLL.

I know we discussed the o&d of the unserved markets from LHR before but I cant find it. All the markets have pluses and minuses.
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:59 am

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 155):
SJC - Major tech business, pull traffic from SFO where the competition is stronger.
STL - Large city, large AA frequent flier base, unserved.
PIT - Legacy US passenger base, no UK flights currently.
BDL - High value market.
DTW - Too big of a city to overlook.

In my totally uninformed opinion, I think your list shows three of the five I would be looking at in no particular order:

SJC
STL
DTW
MSY
BNA

Wild cards could be IND, CLE and PIT.

As mentioned earlier, STL has a large corporate and AA F/F base and would think is a shoo-in for one of the five if it came to fruition. However the St. Louis business community has not ponied up the jack in the past for any TAtl service and if that is a pre-requisite in this case then no. I think SJC and DTW would be locks as well.

But then again, everything is just speculation at this point. But between AA/BA they appear to want to control the medium sized US markets, should be fun times ahead..
 
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RWA380
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:02 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 145):
The idea that "busloads" of people take is absolutely ridiculous. PDXLON is an ok sized local market on it's own. There isn't much leakage. PDX isn't some isolated, underserved airport.

Not sure how many people take the bus vs taking the train, driving or even flying, but I'm sure every BA plane that has left SEA, has had someone from the PDX metro area onboard. Several people that I personally know, including myself, have made our way to SEA/TAC one way or another, to fly out on BA or to pick up someone off BA.

Yes many folks fly PDX-AMS-LHR-AMS-PDX, and any other myriad of options that exist with connections in N America. I know BA has shown interest in serving PDX for many years, and I see them with a daily 787 here in the next year or two. BA may find that one daily 77W/744 LHR-SEA, even in the high season, will be ample service, along with DLs daily SEA-LHR flight.

Quoting speedbird9 (Reply 154):
HNL, (might be a good idea for LGW)

I'd agree with LGW as well, if the vast majority of travelers that would use this holiday flight were originating in the UK, but my personal experience is that Europeans come from all over the continent to visit Hawaii.

I think the flight would need to be from LHR, such an ULH leisure flight would need all the connecting opportunities, to remain viable. Just consider all the new one stop connecting opportunities that HNL would get with a non-stop flight from LHR.  
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SCQ83
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:22 pm

I wonder why so many people point here at STL, BNA, IND or CLE. No interest in the UK/Europe about Saint-Louis and any of those cities (in terms of tourism, for instance), they are not dynamic nor international areas and, for instance in the case of STL, the economy has been slumping ever since who knows when.

If BA has never served Saint-Louis... why would they do it now? Airlines open routes not only considering existing opportunities, but expected growth... Austin is a perfect example of a new booming, international (as much as it can get in the US) and prosperous American city. Salt Lake City, Portland, OR and San Jose, CA are very much in line with Austin, which is not the case for any of those Mid-Western cities.
 
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SFOA380
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:53 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 140):
I was brought up in England and I'm a sports nut, and I have very English tastes in sport. (Sport, not "sports".)
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 159):
Austin is a perfect example of a new booming, international (as much as it can get in the US) and prosperous American city

I think that many of the cities mentioned would do very well with new, international service to LHR. As I read through all the posts I muse at the fact that many Brits still think they are at the center of the universe!

Time to move on!!!

Cheers!
 
SCQ83
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:03 pm

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 160):
I think that many of the cities mentioned would do very well with new, international service to LHR. As I read through all the posts I muse at the fact that many Brits still think they are at the center of the universe!

Time to move on!!!

Cheers!

I am sure that wouldn't be an issue if we were talking about additional services to Tokyo or China...but if you are planning a service to London Heathrow (and additionally, connectivity to the rest of Europe), maybe it is important that that city has some interest for British (or Europeans in general) residents or corporations in terms of tourism, business or VFR traffic.   And that that interest is more likely to grow in the near future, and not to decrease or be stagnant.

[Edited 2013-11-11 07:04:03]
 
ltbewr
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:46 pm

BDL - is pretty much between BOS and the NYC area airports, so likely a thin route with limited business travel you need for profits.
CLE - makes sense due to the connections for those in Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tenn., Western PA and just far enough from other major airports.
CLT - maybe due the major banks (Bank of America HQ), manufacturing, tech in the city and region
PHX - maybe seasonal, summer would be tough due to the heat and related weight limits it causes
KCI - would cover probably better than STL and has connecting service for the 'plains' states.
MSP - covers the upper Midwest without having to go through ORD and it's mess.
 
ANA787
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:02 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 162):
PHX - maybe seasonal, summer would be tough due to the heat and related weight limits it causes

lol BA already flies a daily 747 to PHX.

Perhaps you mean PDX.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 163):
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 162):
PHX - maybe seasonal, summer would be tough due to the heat and related weight limits it causes

lol BA already flies a daily 747 to PHX.

Perhaps you mean PDX.

He must have meant PHX. PDX doesn't have the heat problems that he referred to.

My vote is:

SJC
PDX
MSP
MSY
STL


I think SLC could support a LHR non-stop on DL, but would struggle without DL's connections.
 
777STL
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:40 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 159):
I wonder why so many people point here at STL, BNA, IND or CLE. No interest in the UK/Europe about Saint-Louis and any of those cities (in terms of tourism, for instance), they are not dynamic nor international areas and, for instance in the case of STL, the economy has been slumping ever since who knows when.

I think it's fairly obvious that any of these routes would be driven by US originating traffic, no doubt. But you could make the same argument for any other city that has been suggested here. Who the hell wants to go to SLC, BNA, or PDX from the UK? These are all second tier US cities. There aren't any LAXs, DFWs, or MIAs here.

STL is larger and has a far better corporate climate than most of the other cities mentioned.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 159):
If BA has never served Saint-Louis... why would they do it now?

STL still has a large OW FF base from the AA hub days and has supported a LON flight in the past, as well as FRA and CDG. STL also has several larger multinational companies calling it home. Boeing defense, AB-Inbev, Monsanto, etc. So, why not do it?

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 162):
PHX - maybe seasonal, summer would be tough due to the heat and related weight limits it causes

A 787-8 wouldn't have any performance related problems in PHX.
PHX based
 
BigGSFO
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:22 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 162):
PHX - maybe seasonal, summer would be tough due to the heat and related weight limits it causes

BA already serves PHX, year round.
 
ANA787
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:26 pm

When will the next BA destination be announced?
 
SCQ83
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:27 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 165):
I think it's fairly obvious that any of these routes would be driven by US originating traffic, no doubt. But you could make the same argument for any other city that has been suggested here. Who the hell wants to go to SLC, BNA, or PDX from the UK? These are all second tier US cities. There aren't any LAXs, DFWs, or MIAs here.

SLC has a got Adobe and eBay campuses, and it is a major (and growing) center of operations for RBS, MS or GS, they got a new P&G plant... the Wasatch Mountains are becoming popular as an exclusive destination in Europe. And even if just for religion/misionary, a lot of its local population travels abroad frequently.

PDX? It has as well an economy geared towards tech (The Silicon Forest; companies like Vestas have their NA operations HQed there), hence growth, and clothing (then many links to Europe), and it is an educated city, more willing to travel outside the US, and also certainly a more popular destination abroad that any of those Mid-West cities.

Of course, not many people is going to travel to Portland, OR from London just for the sake of a weekend city break, but it can be part of a larger itinerary (and indeed it is). Saint Louis or Cleveland? Gimme a break...

I just think that the days of "old corporate base that can exclusively maintain a route" are gone (especially when your strengths are reinsurance companies or - no comment - corporations like Monsanto), which is somehow the case of BWI or RDU from LHR. Of course you will need business travelers to keep a route going (and ideally in growing sectors like tech), but you will need as well positive demographics and a more international-minded local population who at least have passports in a reasonable percentage, and a place that somehow is interesting on the other side of the pond. Again, those are the strengths for places like Austin, which is not the case for St-Louis. AUS is not LAX, MIA or DFW... yet they are getting a BA flight.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:35 pm

I just wonder what premium demand exists are places like IND, STL, MCI, BNA, CLE, MSY. Even if you combined connections to Europe and the middle east. Plus LHR has such high surcharges and taxes for premium flyers it would still be cheaper almost always to connect in JFK/EWR, YUL, YYZ, ORD etc. to head to Europe.
 
ANA787
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:22 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 42):
Quoting PDX88 (Reply 38):
Why are there so many doubters for BA to fly LHR-PDX? With a 787 on the route, DL and BA could coexist profitably. I know there are plenty of business travelers who would much prefer connecting thru LHR instead of AMS. BA isn't shy about going head to head against DL either, recently increasing LHR-SEA to 10x weekly upon DL announcing it's new SEA-LHR service.

BA has seriously considered PDX before...

AS could expand their relationship with BA to include feed in/out of Portland, the flight might have a chance for success.

BA could easily start a codeshare agreement with partner AS at PDX to various western destinations.

BA could easily codeshare on AS flights:
PDX-EUG/MFR/RDM/BOI/GEG/ANC/FAI/OGG/PSC/RNO/SMF/FAT/SBA/BLI/BIL/BZN/MSO
 
IADLHR
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:25 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 165):

I think it's fairly obvious that any of these routes would be driven by US originating traffic, no doubt. But you could make the same argument for any other city that has been suggested here. Who the hell wants to go to SLC, BNA, or PDX from the UK? These are all second tier US cities. There aren't any LAXs, DFWs, or MIAs here.

STL is larger and has a far better corporate climate than most of the other cities mentioned.

Business takes me to SLC, ABQ and other places in the west and southwest. More and more it seems that at hotels, airports, gas stations etc. I am running into British and German tourists that have been to the US multiple times. In my conversations with them they have flown to say PHX and fly from DEN or LAS etc. back home. There are all kinds of fly and drive combinations now in the west and southwest for foreign travelers. My guess is that they will only grow in time. I havent seen as many in SLC but I think it is possible SLC could be a city BA is considering.

For some of the same reasons I wonder if HNL isnt a dark horse for service.

Another place that I seem to meet people going to, or coming from the UK is CMH. I have not checked the figures for CMH-LHR but I wonder with the OSU, among other things, being in the area if that isnt a very dark horse.

We have extended family in RSW. For a long time they have been talking about an increase in British tourists there and an increase in British citizens in buying real estate there since the 2008 crash. I think RSW might be a strong possibility.

Having said all that I think PIT , PDX and CLT head the list.
 
Gemuser
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:40 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 159):
If BA has never served Saint-Louis... why would they do it now?

Until the EU/USA Open Skies Treaty in 2008 (?) BA could not serve STL, and many other US cities. IMHO therefor that argument does not work for any city in this discussion.

Gemuser
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compensateme
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:43 am

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 27):
As much as I would like to see BA return to DTW I doubt that it will happen. With Delta going to twice daily DTW-LHR in the spring of 2014 I don't think the traffic is there for a third daily flight

Not really relevant - DL's flight is catering toward its hub; plenty of other hubs have a larger disproportionate amount of local traffic:capacity to LHR. What matters is the amount of traffic BA would be able to carry from DTW and beyond. In the late 1990s, BA was operating a daily 747 from DTW with some additional 777 frequencies during the summer; just a few years later the flight was a 763 continuing onwards to IAH. In a short span in 2007, Pfizer closed their Ann Arbor research facility, the Southeastern Michigan economy began tanking and EU-US agreed on Open Skies, effectively killing BA's service. It's certainly a different economic landscape locally in 2014 than it was in 2007, which could entice BA to resume service but I wouldn't count on it.
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Viscount724
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:50 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 176):
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 159):
If BA has never served Saint-Louis... why would they do it now?

Until the EU/USA Open Skies Treaty in 2008 (?) BA could not serve STL, and many other US cities. IMHO therefor that argument does not work for any city in this discussion.

Not sure that's true for STL. British Caledonian served STL for a while in the 1970s, although I think it was combined with Houston originally and later Atlanta before it was dropped. All B.Cal. U.S. service was of course from LGW.

None of those points could have been served nonstop from LHR under the old bilateral. That's why BA served IAH-LHR as a tag-on via IAD and later via ORD at various times, in addition to nonstop IAH-LGW, prior to Open Skies when they moved the nonstop to LHR and dropped the tag-on via ORD around the same time.

[Edited 2013-11-11 17:00:23]

[Edited 2013-11-11 17:02:15]
 
PHX787
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:46 pm

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 163):
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 162):
PHX - maybe seasonal, summer would be tough due to the heat and related weight limits it causes

lol BA already flies a daily 747 to PHX.

They wouldn't take that heavy of a downgauge into PHX even during the summer. While the loads are a smidge smaller it seems that it's doing quite well.

Someone said that the transfer of the machine to a 77W has been postponed indefinitely...but that's for my PHX thread  
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brilondon
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:17 pm

I see the focus more on the west coast SJC, PDX maybe and not to the midwest where AA is strongly entrenched.
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KD5MDK
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:51 am

Now that AA-US goes through, I really don't expect BA at CLT. Those A333s will need to go somewhere, LHR is a great place to send it, and PMUS pilots are going to want international flying to do. Opening 5 new routes is going to emphasize new markets where it doesn't overlap with existing partners.

An argument against BDL on the 757 that occurred to me is that you have to get it there. So you can either route a domestic flight on the 75L or you can route it through LHR. Who gets 75L service to LHR now? Or you'd have to open a second market from BDL like MAD.
 
Indy
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:32 am

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 177):
An argument against BDL on the 757 that occurred to me is that you have to get it there.

I think it will be a very long time before they get service again. If memory serves me right, the loads on the BDL-AMS flight weren't exactly very good. I believe towards the end the loads were pretty bad. My argument was that BDL is far too small of a market to support the flight. People attempted to spin the insurance industry and some large catchment that would make this work. It never happened. Even if there is money there, the bottom line is the metro population is only 1.2 million people. That is significantly smaller than many other markets currently without TATL service.
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RWA380
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:07 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 164):
My vote is:

SJC
PDX
MSP
MSY
STL

I agree with everything but MSP, I thin AA will have CLT covered, I'd like to see HNL ....

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 168):
PDX? It has as well an economy geared towards tech (The Silicon Forest; companies like Vestas have their NA operations HQed there), hence growth, and clothing (then many links to Europe), and it is an educated city, more willing to travel outside the US, and also certainly a more popular destination abroad that any of those Mid-West cities.

Nike, Adidas North America, Freightliner, lots of Intel campuses, PDX is ripe for a LHR non-stop.

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 170):
BA could easily start a codeshare agreement with partner AS at PDX to various western destinations.

BA could easily codeshare on AS flights:
PDX-EUG/MFR/RDM/BOI/GEG/ANC/FAI/OGG/PSC/RNO/SMF/FAT/SBA/BLI/BIL/BZN/MSO

BA and AS used to have an agreement. Whatever ended that would need to be fixed, but who else could help an airline get passengers from a SEA and/or PDX gateway to the rest of the Northwest? If BA leaves at 8:30-9pm, they could capture inbound Hawaii flights and take folks onto the UK easily.
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JetBlueCLT
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:14 pm

With the merger announcements.... I'm almost sure that BA will announce service to CLT in the coming months.
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uberflieger
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:43 pm

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 180):



  

I'd be very surprised if BA didn't start CLT and soon

the 787 seems the ideal a/c initially, although larger planes and more frequencies wouldn't surprise me in the long run
 
PHX787
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:04 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 181):
the 787 seems the ideal a/c initially, although larger planes and more frequencies wouldn't surprise me in the long run

Would there be both US/AA AND BA at CLT?
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globetrotter29
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:27 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 178):
I think it will be a very long time before they get service again. If memory serves me right, the loads on the BDL-AMS flight weren't exactly very good. I believe towards the end the loads were pretty bad. My argument was that BDL is far too small of a market to support the flight. People attempted to spin the insurance industry and some large catchment that would make this work. It never happened. Even if there is money there, the bottom line is the metro population is only 1.2 million people. That is significantly smaller than many other markets currently without TATL service.

You are overlooking a huge amount of population. BDL's immediate catchment area (six Connecticut counties and four Massachusetts counties) is home to over 3.2 million people. The economy is pretty stagnant, but still generates an enormous amount of economic activity.

The AMS flight was launched during the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression. The cancellation of the flight can be most attributed to the deteroriting global economy- not specifically the poor performance of the Hartford-Springfield market.

In addition to strong O&D demand, travelers would have access to BA's vast global network. I definitely think such a route is in the realm of possiblity.

[Edited 2013-11-13 07:35:25]
 
uberflieger
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:29 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 182):

with dominating hubs at both ends & a joint biz, definitely!

WW supported the merger early on and with good reason, IAG & American together with their biz partners will be able to strengthen their LHR to US lead
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:56 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 179):
BA and AS used to have an agreement.

I thought that AS and BA still code-share. Did I miss something? Is that no longer true?

Quoting globetrotter29 (Reply 183):
The AMS flight was launched during the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression. The cancellation of the flight can be most attributed to the deteroriting global economy- not specifically the poor performance of the Hartford-Springfield market.

People haven't mentioned it, but I believe NW/DL tried BDL-AMS twice. It was discontinued and then re-started again for awhiel.
 
tonyban
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:07 pm

Just my opinion.

Would love to see BA reduce their twice daily into SFO to one with the A380 and the second re-routed to SJC in a 787. Considering the industrial giant the Bay Area is, in particular Santa Clara County, this would be a great service for the multitude of business travelers that use this route.
Another is the lure of not going up north 101 during the commute hours. SJC is just too good to ignore.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:36 pm

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 171):
Business takes me to SLC, ABQ and other places in the west and southwest. More and more it seems that at hotels, airports, gas stations etc. I am running into British and German tourists that have been to the US multiple times. In my conversations with them they have flown to say PHX and fly from DEN or LAS etc. back home. There are all kinds of fly and drive combinations now in the west and southwest for foreign travelers. My guess is that they will only grow in time. I havent seen as many in SLC but I think it is possible SLC could be a city BA is considering.

I think SLC o&d hides alot of potential numbers and it will certainly grow. I bet alot of Europeans fly into NYC spend a few days then fly to SLC to go skiing or do the same in Florida, Denver, So Cal etc. I always run into Brits and Europeans skiing in Park City and Alta/Snowbird and alot seem to stop in Utah and also are visiting somewhere else. Paris is doing extremely well for Delta they upgauage to A330 in the summer for more coach seats.
 
olddominion727
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:10 pm

I was also thinking SJC as well. With a 788. It would be perfect. There's a market for EU service or else AA wouldn't have flown to CDG before and TPE before all but leaving SJC.
 
SelseyBill
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:02 pm

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 180):
With the merger announcements.... I'm almost sure that BA will announce service to CLT in the coming months
Quoting uberflieger (Reply 181):
I'd be very surprised if BA didn't start CLT and soon

IMO, it would be more likely that AA/US start CLT-LHR operations and BA takes over flying LHR-RDU. I'd imagine that would be a much cheaper operational solution.
 
SelseyBill
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:06 pm

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 160):
many Brits still think they are at the center of the universe!

But we are aren't we ?

(Signed @ 19:05 hrs GMT)..........
 
JetBlueCLT
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:29 pm

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 189):

Please explain to me how it would be cheaper for BA to fly to RDU and transfer that flight for an additional CLT-LHR on AA. I just don't understand how that would be cheaper. CLT deserves to have BA. We'll be the second biggest new American hub behind DFW... To me it would crazy if BA didn't start service to CLT.
Pittsburgh Penguins, Steelers, Pirates and Charlotte Hornets Fan
 
SelseyBill
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 140):
My point is that BA expansion to the USA is quite a complex matter. There are far stronger cultural links to places like Australia and New Zealand (which also have far higher passport ownership rates and long-haul travel habits). But of course there is no money in flying 24 hour flights.

That leaves the USA and Canada, but the cultural gulf is so large - and widening - that the leisure travel aspect is a very difficult issue beyond the old staples of Florida, NYC, San Francisco and LA.

There are huge numbers of British people who travel to watch sport, but less than 1% travel to watch it in the USA. This week alone, 10,000 Londoners went to Dortmund, 20,000 Scots went to Amsterdam and 5,000 people travelled from Manchester to San Sebastian.

But there were probably fewer than 100 British people who attended pro-sports matches in the USA, and 99% of them only went because they were already there.

This means that the things which keep the leisure cabins full and profitable elsewhere don't work between the UK and the USA outside the major routes. British people aren't going to schedule a vacation in Kansas City or Nashville or even Atlanta. And American people don't have the paid vacation time to do much international travel.

Hence the market remains mainly to the major US cities, and to US airline hubs from secondary British cities.
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I don't think expansion into other USA markets is too complex for BA/IAG a all.

Its all about timing and opportunity.

The UK and USA seem to be emerging steadily from recession, market deregulation; BA has some perfect new aircraft being delivered in he coming years, BA has the ex-bmi slots to exploit, and LHR is a perfect hub for the USA-Europe market.

The UK-USA O&D market; (including sports visits); is obviously important for BA, but I would suspect the single most important factor for these new USA-LHR sectors is the ability to sell their premium products.

Its what makes their network tick.
 
upwardfacing
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:23 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 188):
all but leaving SJC

Exactly. SJC is still basically a community/regional/LCC-oriented airport that is rather close to SFO. When there are no nonstops even to the East Coast, except by LCC Jetblue (JFK and BOS), how can one expect LHR?

(NRT is still new--let's see how that works out.)
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:46 pm

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 171):
I think it is possible SLC could be a city BA is considering

I agree that it is possible, and it will be fun to watch if BA jumps the route ahead of DL or VS...

It makes me wonder though-- I think SLC has just 3 FIS gates, and they are all controlled by DL. If somebody else launches an international route (I think that F9 has operated to Mexico from SLC in the past), would they have to lease gate space from DL? Or does the airport have some authority over those gates to grant access to new entrants? Could BA unload there, and then tow the plane elsewhere for departures? Could BA park at a hardstand and bus passengers over to immigration? AA and US operate from concourse A in SLC, which I think has 2 vacant gates right now... are any of the A gates capable of handling widebodies? The logistics of BA (or any international carrier) at SLC are an interesting question.
 
USAirALB
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:04 am

I can't say much, but I heard from someone at CLT and US that BA won't come to CLT until 2015, but US/AA will start double-daily LHR service from CLT in the meantime.
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RWA380
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:09 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 185):
I thought that AS and BA still code-share. Did I miss something? Is that no longer true?

I really thought that ended, but seems you are correct, as BA is still listed as a travel partner. With that in place, I think PDX will be near the top of BAs list of cities to serve in North America.  
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BigGSFO
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:52 am

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 194):
I agree that it is possible, and it will be fun to watch if BA jumps the route ahead of DL or VS...

Not debating the merits of linking Salt Lake to London, but one would think that if announced, Delta and/or Virgin would do the same and attempt to push BA out as quickly as possible. The market isn't big enough for two players and considering the size of Delta's hub, Skyteam would be the clear winner.
 
PITrules
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:22 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 197):
Not debating the merits of linking Salt Lake to London, but one would think that if announced, Delta and/or Virgin would do the same and attempt to push BA out as quickly as possible. The market isn't big enough for two players and considering the size of Delta's hub, Skyteam would be the clear winner.

Well that was not at all the result when United tried the same against BA at DEN, which is also a much larger market than SLC. Not that SLC is a shoe in for BA either.
FLYi
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: BA Could Add 5 New Routes To USA From LHR - Walsh

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:50 am

Frontier still operates Saturday SLC-CUN non-stop.

I think the thing that makes SLC unappealing is that Delta has stated it wants to fly SLC-LHR already. There are probably other cities with better opportunities, but hey if they think they can beat Delta and push them off maybe they'll go for it.

One good thing about SLC is that you can always lower fares and get people to fill the seats so the potential to loose a ton is very low, they can stimulate o&d on that route if they want to/need to. To say MCI or PIT its gonna be pretty tough to get Brits to go on vacation no matter how low the fares are(not single those cities out purely examples) but your potential to loose money is higher even if there is no competitors.

Maybe it will just turn out to what airports/cities offer the best incentive plans for BA. An amazing package can minimize risk and try the city if it fails you just leave and move on. BA can set the bate and let the airports fight with offers. I think more than a few will be or already are pursuing BA to get these. LHR has the highest o&d from most US cities so its gonna be one airports really want.

CVG anyone? I know the airport managers would be drooling to get BA. I know there are some unique things about being in Kentucky and incentives IIRC

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