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eksath
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:37 pm

Some would argue that Hell waited a long time for him while others would argue he was a hero.

"Charlie Bryan, Who Led Eastern Air Lines Strike, Dies at 79"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/...was-a-hero-to-some-but-not-to-all/
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Flaps
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:47 pm

IMHO, no loss there. Even the devil was in no rush to claim that one.
 
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enilria
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:53 pm

I don't wish for anyone's death, but he was as much a villain as Frank Lorenzo.
 
charlienorth
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:45 pm

Hell is more likely holding a seat for Frank Lorenzo
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Italianflyer
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:23 pm

WOW...I would have guessed he had passed a while ago; he looked like he was in his 70's back in '89.

C'mon people...he and Lorenzo were engaged in a game of strategy in the world of business that did not end well. It's not like he was a mass murder. This is how capitalism works. While it is sad that thousands of lives are effected when the outcome is less than optimal....is is still JUST BUSINESS.
 
airfrnt
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:25 pm

Read the book Hard Landing for a pretty good in-depth analysis of of these characters. Actions that he took - and the union in general accelerated the demise of Eastern. Would it have survived otherwise? Doubtful, but possible. The destructive pattern that was established - insane contracts followed by utter bust and ruin continues to this day.
 
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northstardc4m
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:33 pm

As a human being, I mourn the man...

As a lover of Eastern, I wish he had never risen to power in the IAM... though to this day I feel he and Lorenzo deserved each other... I just wish it hadn't clipped "The Wings of Man".
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
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enilria
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:38 pm

Quoting italianflyer (Reply 4):
is still JUST BUSINESS.

I agree. What the legacies did using CH11 in the era after Lorenzo was much worse. The games DL played with Pinnacle were very little different. Airlines sub-contracting everything to fire and re-hire. Guatemalan C-checks. It's just expected now. Labor scored a Pyrrhic victory with Lorenzo, but lost the war as the waves of deregulation were too strong for labor to stand in the way of. In some ways I guess Bryan was one of the last people to try to block its inevitable effects, but in the end it stopped nothing and arguably accelerated it.
 
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:38 pm

Good to hear. Him and the rest of the born to lose people at EAL are finally gone from this industry in one way or another, with very few hanging on. The practices Lorenzo and Co. unleashed on the industry will far outlast anything Bryan and Co. could ever manage.
 
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:00 pm

Remember, it's because of Charlie Bryan that Frank Lorenzo was even in the picture. After the other unions had signed new contracts with Frank Borman, Charlie and the IAM wouldn't budge. That is why Borman sold out to Lorenzo....at a dirt cheap price. If Borman had put Eastern in Ch 11, Eastern could have reduced it's costs, thus giving it an advantage over other majors.



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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:38 pm

From the article:

“I kind of feel that I was responsible for everybody at Eastern — not just the union people, but the noncontract people, too — and I let everybody down.”

Yes you did let everybody down you son of a bitch.

Rest in peace anyway.
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SpaceshipDC10
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:54 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 10):
“I kind of feel that I was responsible for everybody at Eastern — not just the union people, but the noncontract people, too — and I let everybody down.”

I like when people are capable to admit their mistakes, even if very late and after bad consequences, it's still better than being stubborn at any costs just to satisfy ones ego.
 
srbmod
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:41 pm

Will he be cremated and his ashes scattered via a powerback?   

Since I'm sure the reference may go over the heads of some of the folks reading the thread, some background information. Back in the early 1980s, Eastern had decided to start doing powerbacks at ATL on pretty much all of their planes in order to reduce the number of folks needed to send out planes (From what I was told, at the time, a/c were pushed back by maintenance crews and Eastern wanted to use the rampers since they made less money.). Since this was going to affect union jobs at Eastern, Charlie Bryan got behind a plane trying to prevent it from being powerbakced. Now the story gets murky after that, as some versions of the story have him getting blown around by the jetblast (some versions say he was blown halfway between Concourse A and Concourse B), others say that some folks got him out of the way so he wouldn't be run over. Regardless of what the actual story is, he almost got arrested for interference of interstate commerce. What he showed was that he was not going to roll over and let management walk all over his people. His militant attitude is why Borman sold out to Texas Air and things ended up like they did. In the end, nobody won, even though Charlie Bryan and company celebrated Eastern's demise as a victory.
 
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:49 pm

My uncle, a WW2 bomber captain who became an EAL captain, lost his retirement because Bryan put them out of business. RIH.

[Edited 2013-11-07 13:49:34]
 
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:04 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 13):
My uncle, a WW2 bomber captain who became an EAL captain, lost his retirement because Bryan put them out of business. RIH.

My grandfather saw his Eastern pension slashed significantly as it was sold to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation along with the other EAL pensions in 1990 as part of the bankruptcy reorganization. He retired in 1983 and briefly went back to work for them as a consultant in NYC in 1984. He left right before things really started to go bad for them.
 
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:08 pm

I used to be negative on Charles Bryan, I remember seeing the whole thing play out on TV news. But, he did put forth an equity plan that was forward thinking. Who knows if EAL's costs would be too high even if they let the employees take an equity stake, but something to think about.............I remember the then EAL CEO stating the day after the strike began, that if the pilots had crossed the picket line, EAL would be running fine. Mgnt for some reason thought they had the Pilots on their side.
 
burchfiel
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:44 pm

May he rest in peace. It sounds like he made mistakes like all of us. But a greater mistake would be to celebrate someone's death, to refuse to forgive, or to wish he were in hell.
 
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:51 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 12):
What he showed was that he was not going to roll over

On the contrary; the forward-thrust used to get the aircraft off the flat-spot on the tires made him roll over. And over. And over.  
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
srbmod
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:14 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
On the contrary; the forward-thrust used to get the aircraft off the flat-spot on the tires made him roll over. And over. And over.

This is one of those times this site needs a rimshot smilie.....

Quoting william (Reply 15):
I remember the then EAL CEO stating the day after the strike began, that if the pilots had crossed the picket line, EAL would be running fine. Mgnt for some reason thought they had the Pilots on their side.


I remember when the pilots joined the IAM on the picket line, as one of the Assistant Scoutmasters of the Boy Scout troop I was a member of was an Eastern pilot and he was not happy about the pilots going on strike. The pilots ended their walkout after nearly nine months, but Eastern had pretty much replaced them with new hires and those that crossed the picket line (and they got added to the waiting list). Charlie Bryan was less than complimentary regarding the pilots ending their strike, saying that in the months prior to the pilots ending their strike, the IAM were the ones carrying the strike (Which was pretty much true, as in August, a large number of pilots broke ranks with ALPA and crossed the picket line and a number of other striking pilots either retired or went to work for another airline.).

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-11-23/news/mn-252_1_eastern-pilots

To some, Charlie Bryan is as reviled as Frank Lorenzo and to others he is hailed for his leadership in the fight against one of the biggest corporate raiders of the 1980s.
 
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:32 am

Quoting Burchfiel (Reply 16):
May he rest in peace. It sounds like he made mistakes like all of us. But a greater mistake would be to celebrate someone's death, to refuse to forgive, or to wish he were in hell.

Absolutely, especially someone fighting for what he believed to be a just cause, peoples jobs, and standard of living. He was fighting a greedy vicious man, who only cared for quick monetary gain.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 18):
To some, Charlie Bryan is as reviled as Frank Lorenzo and to others he is hailed for his leadership in the fight against one of the biggest corporate raiders of the 1980s.



I am certainly one of them. He was fighting for people, Lorenzo was fighting to enrich himself.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:25 am

Quoting northstardc4m (Reply 6):
As a human being, I mourn the man...

As a lover of Eastern, I wish he had never risen to power in the IAM... though to this day I feel he and Lorenzo deserved each other... I just wish it hadn't clipped "The Wings of Man".

+1

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 8):
and the rest of the born to lose people at EAL are finally gone from this industry in one way or another, with very few hanging on.

That is kind of a strong statement.. Many of us were able to salvage the remainder of our careers. I think your born to loose painting is overly broad and inappropriate. But, that is your two cents..

Quoting srbmod (Reply 14):
My grandfather saw his Eastern pension slashed significantly as it was sold to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation along with the other EAL pensions in 1990 as part of the bankruptcy reorganization.

All of us saw our pensions take a big tumble with the PBGC. But without the PBGC, there might not have been any pension money at all. Anyway, IIRC the pilots (less than 10 percent of the employee count) got about 3/4s of the badly underfunded pension moneys, while the rest of us got the few penny's left over.      
 
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Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:20 am

Bottom Line: Each man (Bryant & Lorenzo) was determined to be "right" in their own way and got into a pissing match that eventually destroyed Eastern. I think it got to the point where the company didn't matter to either of them anymore, just the need to be the one who is "right".
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:31 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Quoting italianflyer (Reply 4): is still JUST BUSINESS.

Tell that to the families that had to endure suicides of their loved ones. Tell that to the men and women that lost their homes, cars and life savings in the name of naked greed. Tell that to the thousand of marriages that ended in divorce due to financial issues or to the students that were forced to leave colleges because there was no money to pay their tuition. Tell that to my aunt whose husband, Captain Charles White heroically landed a L1049C on a hillside in North Salem, NY after a collision with a TWA 707 and all but three people (including my uncle) perished but 49 lived. My aunt lost her health insurance and other benefits as did thousands of other Eastern employees and their families.

This was not "just business." This was corporate rape. Both parties could have stepped back from the brink. And now there is just a vacant lot in MIA where Building 16, their corporate headquarters, used to stand.
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:33 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
Absolutely, especially someone fighting for what he believed to be a just cause, peoples jobs, and standard of living. He was fighting a greedy vicious man, who only cared for quick monetary gain.

And if I remember correctly, at the time Lorenzo had already ravaged CO, so with such precedent how to not fight to protect employees.
 
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:01 pm

And remember here in Houston there are those who were formerly with Texas International who still look at Lorenzo as their knight in shining armor.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:32 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 22):
Captain Charles White heroically landed a L1049C on a hillside in North Salem, NY after a collision with a TWA 707 and all but three people (including my uncle) perished but 49 lived.

I read that 4 people died. It was very heroic of your Uncle to try to rescue that last passenger. He is, most assuredly, resting in peace.
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:59 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 25):
I read that 4 people died. It was very heroic of your Uncle to try to rescue that last passenger. He is, most assuredly, resting in peace.

You are correct--one additional person died the next day in the hospital. Not long ago I spread the ashes of my uncles' two sisters (one of which was my mother) and his brother-in-law on that slope in North Salem. It is still a beautiful and as serene a place as it was on 12/04/65. You can even still see where the trees were clipped by the wings as the airplane was landing on an upward slope of about 30 degrees. Thank you for remembering him--as you can tell I am incredibly proud of his airmanship and courage. At Eastern he was known as "Chuck"--to me and his family he was just Uncle Charlie.

My point to stay on thread is that EAL's demise was the culmination of a series of miscalculations, greed and it had reached the point where the employees said "If we can't have it then neither can they." There comes a point in negotiations where everyone has to step back and take a deep breath. Unfortunately, in his dedication to his members, Charlie Bryan could not or would not and Heaven knows Lorenzo was not going to budge. But to say "it was just business" is just inaccurate.
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drr49
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:25 pm

I was a pilot for EAL from 1980 until I resigned in 1989. A lot of good points have been made here, and has been mentioned, the book Hard Landing is a very good account of what happened.

IMHO, the real confrontation was between Charlie Bryan and Frank Borman, the CEO of EAL until the sale to Lorenzo in 1986.When Lorenzo took over after the forced sale of EAL, Bryan looked forward to dealing with the new management. In his view, anyone was better than Borman.

I still vividly recall the preparations for the potential IAM strike in 1983, when all the other employee groups were aligned with management and ready to cross an IAM picket line, because the demands of the Bryan led IAM were just unrealistic.

It came down to the last minute and Borman caved.

To take on the IAM strike, even with complete support of the other employees, would have forced EAL into Chp 11 bankruptcy, and Borman believed that no passenger would fly, or buy a ticket, on an airline in bankruptcy.At that time, bankruptcy meant shutdown, as happened to Braniff I earlier. So he gave in.

Not taking this on in 1983 was the beginning of the end for EAL. The new IAM contract was just too expensive for the already financially troubled airline. This ultimately led to the sale of the airline to Texas Air, Lorenzo's holding company for his airline interests.

But it was clear in a short time that Lorenzo had no interest in running EAL. He chopped it up, piece by piece and sold it off. The Shuttle was sold to Trump, the South American routes were sold to AA, the EAL res system (SODA - system one direct access) was "given" to Texas Air and EAL had to pay to use it's own res system.

By the time of the IAM strike in 1989, it was clear that EAL was being liquidated by Lorenzo, which is why the other unions honored the IAM picket line in 1989. There were a few offers for the airline from outside parties, but the basic business feeling was that EAL was damaged beyond the point of recovery.

I loved my time at EAL, it had fantastic people. I will always wonder how the outcome for EAL would have changed if Borman had taken the strike in 1983, and replaced the IAM. It was a different world for the airlines back then, but I do think that EAL would have survived a Chp 11, even back in 1983 when survival of an airline in bankruptcy was unheard of.

My best to all the the EAL family. Really good people.
 
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:37 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 12):
Will he be cremated and his ashes scattered via a powerback?

Lol. Okay, that's funny.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
I am certainly one of them. He was fighting for people, Lorenzo was fighting to enrich himself.

+1

Fighting *for* the people instead of against them is always a noble cause. Some of today's labor leaders should take note.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting drr49 (Reply 27):
Not taking this on in 1983 was the beginning of the end for EAL.

This, this, a thousand times this.

I also have long wondered how EA would have fared if they'd taken the strike in '83. Outsourcing maintenance and below-wing activity like ground handling wasn't a commonly contracted practice by large carriers back then, but has Borman had the foresight to line up vendors for MX and ramp functions, EA would have likely weathered a strike quite well - especially considering how well they were doing financially between '83 and '85.

Now, the Gulf War, 9/11, etc - those are different stories but under the right leadership and decision-making, it's quite possible EA would still be around in some form.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Max Q
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:15 pm

If you're looking for a villain it was most certainly Lorenzo that caused the failure of Eastern Airlines
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:55 pm

Quoting drr49 (Reply 27):
My best to all the the EAL family. Really good people.

At the height of the terrible times at Eastern, I flew first class on a EA757 from DCA-MIA. Breakfast was served but when the cutlery was delivered there were no spoons. The flight attendants were literally in tears with embarrassment as they informed us the in order to "save money" all spoons had been removed from the airplanes by a higher power than themselves. Those ladies were trying so hard to provide a nice service without the basic tools of the job.

Charlie Bryan served a necessary purpose, unfortunately a sad one. There comes a point in abusive relationships where one person has to say "We have had enough." Frank Borman talks a lot about their relationship in his book "Countdown." Read it if you get the chance.

[Edited 2013-11-08 13:56:44]
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eksath
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:13 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 31):
There comes a point in abusive relationships where one person has to say "We have had enough." Frank Borman talks a lot about their relationship in his book "Countdown." Read it if you get the chance.

I concur.

All my colleagues at NASA who ever had anything to do with Frank Borman, the least common denominator is that he was/is a straight shooter. Looking at his commercials with the hindsight of history and all that we know, I have come to my independent conclusion too and that Frank Borman's Countdown is a honest truth of that "abusive relationship". Charlie Bryan does not appear to have been the same high calbre as the Colonel.

Sadly, Eastern had to be the family they fought over.
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:04 pm

Quoting eksath (Reply 32):
I have come to my independent conclusion too and that Frank Borman's Countdown is a honest truth of that "abusive relationship".

Well-said; that book is a great read. Lorenzo was no saint and didn't have the best of intentions for EA, but Charlie Bryan's ego was definitely what ultimately caused EA to fail.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:29 pm

Quoting eksath (Reply 32):
the least common denominator is that he was/is a straight shooter.
Quoting eksath (Reply 32):
Charlie Bryan does not appear to have been the same high calbre as the Colonel.

The two comments seem to contradict each other. Can we switch 'least' for 'most'?

I was on Nasa Parkway E, just east of the Banana River bridge, when I watched Apollo 8 lift off. I was 11 years old.

What a memory!
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WarRI1
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:12 am

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 28):
Fighting *for* the people instead of against them is always a noble cause. Some of today's labor leaders should take note.

I cannot completely agree, or disagree, good and bad on both sides. I think our esteemed congress and politicians everywhere should try that, fighting for the people. It seems a lost practice these days, putting the people first. The majority, not the special interests.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:14 am

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 28):
Fighting *for* the people instead of against them is always a noble cause. Some of today's labor leaders should take note.

I cannot completely agree, or disagree, always good and bad on both sides. I think our esteemed congress and politicians everywhere should try that, fighting for the people. It seems a lost practice these days, putting the people first. The majority, not the special interests.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:40 am

I had read somewhere that Borman called in Frank Lorenzo to use as a scare tactic to get the IAM to meet his demands and that when everyone was onboard with the board's demands Lorenzo would just go away But he didn't. And the rest is history.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
747buff
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:56 am

Quoting type-rated (Reply 37):


I had read somewhere that Borman called in Frank Lorenzo to use as a scare tactic to get the IAM to meet his demands and that when everyone was onboard with the board's demands Lorenzo would just go away But he didn't. And the rest is history.

Yup, Borman and the IAM each had cocked, loaded guns pointed at the other.
I also read, perhaps from the same source (Rapid Descent), that in case the sale to Lorenzo fell through, EA's PR department was preparing an announcement that the airline had filed Chapter 11. The main culprits named were the IAM and low fare competition from PeoplExpress.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):
He was fighting for people, Lorenzo was fighting to enrich himself.

They were equally greedy. Bryan only cared about the IAM, not so much about the rest of Eastern.
At Eastern, we earn our wings every day!
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:12 am

I self deleted a double reply.

[Edited 2013-11-09 19:14:33]
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:12 am

Quoting 747buff (Reply 38):
They were equally greedy. Bryan only cared about the IAM, not so much about the rest of Eastern.

A ridiculous conclusion, the IAM members are people. Bryan was trying to defend his union people, not enrich himself. Lorenzo was trying to enrich himself, by millions of dollars, and if that destroyed Eastern, so be it. A corporate raider has no honor, just greed.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Bingo1
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:41 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 40):

As the battle of between him and Lorenzo continued Bryan wasn't defending his people anymore. It was his ego that was being defended by then. An "ego defender" has no more honor than a corporate raider, and, I might add, no less either.
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:41 pm

Quoting eksath (Reply 32):
All my colleagues at NASA who ever had anything to do with Frank Borman, the least common denominator is that he was/is a straight shooter

I had good friends at Eastern when all of this was going on and they absolutely LOATHED Borman and placed a lot of the blame on him. As in most things there are always two sides to a story but my own impression was that Col Borman genuinely loved running Eastern and in that capacity he had to make some tough decisions that were not exactly popular with the rank and file.

We could fill a whole new thread on Frank Lorernzo. Many of us in the industry never understood why he did not have a mysterious "accident" along his path of raping, plundering and pillaging.
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:27 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 42):
Many of us in the industry never understood why he did not have a mysterious "accident" along his path of raping, plundering and pillaging.

Read my reply #24 in this thread....
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WarRI1
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:42 am

Quoting Bingo1 (Reply 41):
As the battle of between him and Lorenzo continued Bryan wasn't defending his people anymore. It was his ego that was being defended by then. An "ego defender" has no more honor than a corporate raider, and, I might add, no less either.

Let us be real for a change. That is ridiculous. A corporate raider, now that we know about. I have heard about corrupt union leaders, but an egotistical one, that is laughable. In my 42 years of unionism, I never met one who operated on ego. I think their motives rose slightly above that, like wages, benefits, seniority, you know minor things like that.
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Max Q
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:40 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 44):

Let us be real for a change. That is ridiculous. A corporate raider, now that we know about. I have heard about corrupt union leaders, but an egotistical one, that is laughable. In my 42 years of unionism, I never met one who operated on ego. I think their motives rose slightly above that, like wages, benefits, seniority, you know minor things like that.

Well said and the praise for Borman is misplaced, he was totally out of his depth and incompetent as Eastern's Ceo.



No question he was a very competent officer and superb astronaut but that backgound simply doesn't prepare you for the rough and tumble of managing a civilian airline in extremely challenging times.



I really do have the utmost admiration for Borman, what he did on Apollo 8 was incredible but he was an innocent boyscout with regards to his dealings with Lorenzo, the ultimate crook of the airline business. I knew him, I worked for him and have met him personally, he was a scumbag but a very crafty one.



Once he came to the realization he didn't want Eastern on his dirt cheap terms he just set about robbing them of any assets that were valuable to him (DC 9's, A300's and DC10's were all 'transferred' to Continental at ridiculously low lease rates'


Charlie, in his own way was just looking out for his people

[Edited 2013-11-10 23:44:50]

[Edited 2013-11-10 23:45:59]

[Edited 2013-11-10 23:47:15]
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WesternA318
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:52 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 45):
I really do have the utmost admiration for Borman, what he did on Apollo 8 was incredible but he was an innocent boyscout with regards to his dealings with Lorenzo, the ultimate crook of the airline business. I knew him, I worked for him and have met him personally, he was a scumbag but a very crafty one.

I have also worked for Lorenzo, and one of my former ventures was funded by his Savoy Group. Crook? I think not. He was looking out for the best interests of the shareholders in Jet Capital and Texas Air (to a point).
 
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STT757
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:49 pm

I searched but could not find a photo of Charlie, anyone have a link?
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northstardc4m
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:06 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 47):

I searched but could not find a photo of Charlie, anyone have a link?

In the IAM vs Management days:
http://www.goiam.org/images/Charlie%20Bryan.jpg

[Edited 2013-11-11 08:07:27]
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Charlie Bryan Passes Away

Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:38 pm

Quoting northstardc4m (Reply 48):
I searched but could not find a photo of Charlie, anyone have a link?

That's odd, considering how much he was on tv back in those days. I'll have to look to see if I can find a picture of Robert Poli who drove the Air Traffic Controllers over the cliff with Ronald Reagan. We could start a whole "Rogues Gallery" of union activists and corporate raiders.

To this day I know many airline crew members that refuse to call it Ronald Reagan National Airport. It is akin to naming a bird sanctuary after Frank Purdue.
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