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LondonCity
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 49):
11-abreast on A380
10-abreast on A380
10-abreast on B777
9-abreast on B777
what are actual seat widths in those configurations?

Check seatguru.com for this information.

Also note that 3-3-3 Y configuration on the B787 can be even tighter than 10-across on a B777.

An official media statement issed by Qatar Airways when launching its B787 business and economy seating in Berlin says that the seat width is just 16.9 ins.

http://www.qatarairways.com/english_...pressrelease_pressrelease_20120307
 
boysteve
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:05 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 49):
can someone please shed some light on the seat width in these different considerations?

11-abreast on A380
10-abreast on A380
10-abreast on B777
9-abreast on B777

what are actual seat widths in those configurations?

Well the inside diameter of a B777 is 231 inches, and an A380 is 259 inches downstairs. Therefore an airline that operates 10 abreast on both gives their customers a much better experience on the A380 than B777 by 28 inches!!!!! Therefore given that a Y class seat is 17 - 18 inches an 11 abreast A380 gives a better seat width per seat than a 10 abreast B777.

In order of comfort (greatest first);
10 across A380
9 across B777
11 across A380
10 across B777
 
neutronstar73
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:18 pm

Doesn't matter if there is 11 across in economy on the A380 or 10 across in economy in the 777.

2-3-2 on the 767 is still the best.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:31 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 25):
or the A320 and BAE146 at 6Y on similar routes...

AF Paris-Pisa A32S aircraft in 6 abreast, AF Paris-Firenze Avro100 in 6 abreast, I've done both, the latter is very cramped ! And the flight is more expensive (but more convenient if you're going around Firenze).
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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ssteve
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:41 am

So, if the entire lower level of the A380 is 11-wide Economy with a tight pitch, do they really know it can be evacuated fast enough? What configuration was used for the test?
 
Viscount724
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:49 am

Quoting loalq (Reply 35):
I wonder how EK gets to be called "the airline of the year", they already have a surprisingly cramped business class in all of their fleet (777 being the worst with 7 abreast) and now this.

EK's 7-abreast business class on their A332s is even worse than the 777. I can't think of any other major carriers that have operated A330s or A340s with 7-abreast J class.
 
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:47 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 55):
EK's 7-abreast business class on their A332s is even worse than the 777. I can't think of any other major carriers that have operated A330s or A340s with 7-abreast J class.

EK's hard product isn't that great outside of F. Most of J is angled lie flat, and between the 7 across in the 330s and 10 across Y in the 777s, no one is calling it luxurious. It goes to show that a) EK (and the Gulf 3) aren't winning pax over on service/product but rather on price and convenience and b) EK's PR team is extraordinary considering the perception vs reality of EK's product.
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:51 am

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 8):
Personally I wish that EK (or one of the other ME3 would introduce an Y+ as that would suit my budget when travelling long haul MAN - Asia.

The best way to sell Y+ is a less comfy Y (see Air Asia X).... However, I just don't see the point of paying for a little more room. EK does a moderately high density J that competes with Y+ in some cases.

Quoting PM (Reply 21):
Not an airline I'll hurry back to. And certainly not in order to fly 11-abreast on an A380.

But do you pay for your tickets? This is a move to gain more 'pay as you go' customers. This will put EK at the top of the internet search engines.

And all the discussion for 11 across has been for a 'regional' A380. In other words, for  

Quoting SVJ77W (Reply 27):
Makes me wonder are EK not able to fill up seats on their A388 with 10-abreast.

Emirates has maintained an 80% load factor. Ironically, they should have an easier time selling seats thanks to the price stimulation.

http://www.emirates.com/english/abou...s/news_detail.aspx?article=1214741

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 51):
In order of comfort (greatest first);
10 across A380
9 across B777
11 across A380
10 across B777

   With more and more airlines going 10 across in the 777, the A380 won't look bad.

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 54):
So, if the entire lower level of the A380 is 11-wide Economy with a tight pitch, do they really know it can be evacuated fast enough?

There are guidelines for higher density configuration than the test. Due to injuries during an evacuation test, no one wants to repeat them (there was one broken leg during the A380 demonstration). The A380 evacuation test was with 853 passengers onboard evacuated in 78 seconds (out of 90 allowed).

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_10005316.shtml

Looking at other sources, the evacuation was completed in 80 seconds. That means Airbus can certify the plane for more. Now, seat pitch and isle width have impacts on evacuation rates and a plane is penalized in the number of seats, versus actually running a test, if either is reduced (in order to keep people safe).

Last I looked, EK is looking to put 650 to 700 seats in the A380. Far less than the 853 certified.


Lightsaber

Late edit:
One thought. EK has almost half their fleet the 777-300ER. EK is probably at the point when high demand destinations with low RASM (e.g., tourist destinations such as BKK) are ready for more seats, but at a lower CASM due to the demand curve. Even for A380s (such as to CDG), having more seats on the correct destinations of EK's hub will sell more seats on other flights.

[Edited 2013-11-08 18:54:38]
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BestWestern
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:02 am

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 48):
Agreed, an 11 across A388 will be better than a 10 across B777.

You mean marginally less painful I believe.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
malioil
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:30 am

As others have stated, as long as the travelling public wants the absolute rock-bottom fare for any route they wish to fly, the airlines will continue to find ways to make the Economy Class experience barer, and less comfortable. Nonetheless, flying is cheaper today than it ever has been before (when one factors in inflation).

Flying also, should one wish to pay the fares that they used to pay for Y today, be as comfortable as it was, if not more so. On some airlines, Premium Economy Class allows passengers to have 'economy-geared' products with some extras. Indeed, these extras where included in a normal Y fare in days gone by, but Y fares where also somewhat more expensive then. If one goes back as far as the 1970s, for the price of a Y BOAC or KLM ticket one could easily find themselves in Business Class today. The premium cabins today are more luxurious, and more comfortable than they have ever been. Those who have travelled in First Class in the 90s and continue to travel in First Class today will certainly attest to that.

I have travelled in Y with Emirates twice, and twice in J- while both times I was not really impressed, that is a different story for a different time. Airlines that provide comfortable Economy Class experiences, like EY, WY and SQ will ultimately have to 'downgrade' these products to be able to compete on the matter that drives most Y passengers, and that is price. If a roundtrip flight on an 11 abreast A380 is £700, and £850 on a imaginary 6 abreast Y A380, I can almost certainly say that the vast, vast majority of passengers will book the £700 flight, and pocket the extra £150. This may be attributed to the lack of knowledge of many of the travelling public- on EK's most dense flights there are 427 Economy Class passengers aboard- I personally doubt that many are aware of the different comfort levels available on various airlines, and are more likely to book on convenience + price alone. For the passengers that are aware and want a slightly better experience, then Premium Economy Class is offered at a slight premium. I believe First and Business Class passengers are very aware of the different products offered by each airline, for they do ultimately pay thousands of pounds more than anybody else on the same aircraft for the experience that they receive (consequently airlines are doing much to better as well as differentiate their First & Business Class products).

This is common in any industry- take clothes for example. The vast majority of people buy from 'fast-fashion' high street brands, such as Primark, Next, H&M, etc. As long as these brands can downgrade quality and still sell at the same price, they will do so. Nonetheless, companies that offer quality clothes to a discerning clientele (such as Seville Row tailors, Jermyn Street shirtmakers, etc.) know that they must keep a quality product to be able to attract an individual who is willing to spend £1,200 on 6 shirts (as opposed to the £100 the vast majority of people would).

[Edited 2013-11-08 20:33:45]

[Edited 2013-11-08 20:34:45]

[Edited 2013-11-08 20:36:18]

[Edited 2013-11-08 20:38:56]
 
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zkokq
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:41 am

I wonder if most people realise this will only be used on markets such as UAE - India? EK have never said they will be doing long haul with this config.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:47 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 39):

You are probably thinking of AA not DL. AA is configuring its 777 at 10 abreast not DL. DL 777 are 3 3 3, it's A330's are 2 4 2, 767 are 2 3 2, and their 747 are 3 4 3, all standard configurations for the types it's operating.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:01 am

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 51):
In order of comfort (greatest first);
10 across A380
9 across B777
11 across A380
10 across B777

Do you know where the 777X will fit in? Is it basically the same as the 777 in the seat width?

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
CXB77L
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:37 pm

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 51):
Well the inside diameter of a B777 is 231 inches, and an A380 is 259 inches downstairs.

The A380 is 257 inches wide in the main deck cabin, not 259. Difference is 26", not 28".

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 51):
In order of comfort (greatest first);
10 across A380
9 across B777
11 across A380
10 across B777

Comfort is subjective and depends on lots of variables, not the least of which is the seats that the airlines choose to put on their aircraft. SQ, for instance, has the same 19" width, 32" pitch in Y on the 77W as on the A380, so from that point of view, there is no difference. There is no objective way to measure "comfort".
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
leonardoq
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:53 pm

Quoting trent1000 (Reply 22):
Do you really think that major industry carriers such as BA, AF, SQ, UA, LH, AA, QF (and others) are going to imitate, 'match' or 'catch up' to the config of EK to create a new 'industry standard'? I think not - especially for long haul, about which the mentioned carriers already do well in a 'standard' (less dense) config than EK.

even LX, a once called premium airline apparently is going 3-4-3 in their future 777s...
JJ, G3, QF, DJ, TG, LA, AR, EY, EK, LH, JQ, VY, TP, TZ, TR, AA
 
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neutrino
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:13 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 42):
Quoting LondonCity (Reply 33):
If you read the Bloomberg piece re the Doric order for 20 x A380s you will see that the plan is to raise the floor to boost available width.

I'm no engineer and please let those who are chip in but I would think the cost of recertifying that type of change ranks right up there with any major structural change in the design!!!
Just adding a new platform above the present floor to elevate the seat elbow level to a wider portion of the fuselage diameter seems like an awful lot of weight!

Both "solutions" you postulated don't make any viable sense as you rightly refuted. Yes, too expensive to re-engineer/re-certify, and the weight issue respectively.
Probably the press misreported about the floor. Maybe Doric meant raising the seat level by extending the legs thereby elevating the height of the bum rest and putting in collapsible/retractable foot rests.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
factsonly
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:35 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 39):
In the past Tridents with a 4-3 configuration flew in the UK.

     

Ahhhh Yess, the delights of Channel Airways Ltd.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HS_Trident_2.jpg

Channel Airways aircraft were operated with cramped, 21" pitch, seven-abreast seating in the forward section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_...ddeley_Trident#Operational_history
 
LondonCity
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:10 pm

Quoting malioil (Reply 59):
Airlines that provide comfortable Economy Class experiences, like EY, WY and SQ

Note that EY is configuring its B777s 10-abreast 3-4-3. Of the big three Gulf carriers, only QR remains with 3-3-3 on its B777s.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:40 pm

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 54):
So, if the entire lower level of the A380 is 11-wide Economy with a tight pitch, do they really know it can be evacuated fast enough? What configuration was used for the test?

They evacuated 538 passengers and 13 crew from the lower deck and 315 passengers and 7 crew from the upper deck. All together 853 passengers and 20 crew in 78 seconds. The time aloud is 90 seconds.
 
Farzan
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:01 pm

Quoting loalq (Reply 35):

Then try the UA 8 abreast lie flat business class seats on T7. Never again for me.
 
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ssteve
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:36 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 68):
Quoting SSTeve (Reply 54):
So, if the entire lower level of the A380 is 11-wide Economy with a tight pitch, do they really know it can be evacuated fast enough? What configuration was used for the test?

They evacuated 538 passengers and 13 crew from the lower deck and 315 passengers and 7 crew from the upper deck. All together 853 passengers and 20 crew in 78 seconds. The time aloud is 90 seconds.

Ah, so if all they do is add another seat to each middle group of 4 in their existing layout, I figure about 442 Y seats on the lower deck, so still well under certified limits. 853 passengers! Crazy.
 
fiscal
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:03 am

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 67):
only QR remains with 3-3-3 on its B777s.

And a very comfortable set up it is too. Why would you go EK when QR is also flying from your home town.
 
incitatus
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:25 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 56):
EK's hard product isn't that great outside of F.

I'd have trouble sleeping surrounded by all the gold plating.  
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
astuteman
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:09 am

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 54):
So, if the entire lower level of the A380 is 11-wide Economy with a tight pitch, do they really know it can be evacuated fast enough? What configuration was used for the test?

It was 10-abreast on maindeck, 8-abreast on upper deck, all 30" pitch. So your question is a good one.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 63):
There is no objective way to measure "comfort".

Seat pitch, seat width, cabin noise, cabin pressure? They're all objective measurements of comfort, I would have thought.
I accept that there is an individual's value system in there..

Rgds
 
rjm717
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:20 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 55):
EK's 7-abreast business class on their A332s is even worse than the 777. I can't think of any other major carriers that have operated A330s or A340s with 7-abreast J class

Are you including carriers like Deathstar, ... oops, sorry - JETstar? They are 2-3-2 on the 332 and will be the same on the 787
R
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:55 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 63):

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 51):
Well the inside diameter of a B777 is 231 inches, and an A380 is 259 inches downstairs.

The A380 is 257 inches wide in the main deck cabin, not 259. Difference is 26", not 28".

So if you compare the space in a 10 a row B 777 and an 11 a row A 380 and keep to the same aisle you will have more space for each seat on the A 380.
If you take for the A 380 two aisle at 19", 14 armrest at 1.5" you get 11 18" seats in the 257 inch of the A 380.
If you take for the B 777 two aisle at 19", 13 armrest at 1.5" you get 10 17.3" seats inside the 231 inch of the A 777.
So with the same pitch, 11 seats in a row on the A 380 can be more comfortable than 10 seat in a row on the B 777.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:04 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 63):
The A380 is 257 inches wide in the main deck cabin, not 259. Difference is 26", not 28".
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 75):
If you take for the A 380 two aisle at 19", 14 armrest at 1.5" you get 11 18" seats in the 257 inch of the A 380.

Wait a minute, the cabin width is indeed 257" but the floor width is less. Seats must fit within 248".





The only way to achieve 18" seats is by raising the floor a bit.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:00 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 76):

What is the floor width of the B777? or the shoulder width 231 inch on the B 777 and 235 inch on the B 777-X are also measured on the broadest part of the cabin.

We get for the A380 than for 248, we can take it minus two armrest because they fall inside the 257 inch area:

2 aisle at 19", 12 armrest at 1,5 inch, 11 seat at 17,5 inch gives 248,5 inch, still more space than on a 10 a row Y on the B 777.
 
texl1649
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:32 pm

I suppose Airbus will not be pushing the 18" as standard advertising vs. 777x/787 customers much after all. Since, you know, these are also their customers.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:54 pm

Quoting texl1649 (Reply 78):
I suppose Airbus will not be pushing the 18" as standard advertising vs. 777x/787 customers much after all. Since, you know, these are also their customers.

as it is are 11 in a row on the A 380 just a rumor.

If the airlines keep to 8 Y in a row on the A 330, 9 Y in a row on the A 350 and 10 Y in a row on the A 380, than 18" seats are no problem.
 
incitatus
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:55 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 76):
Wait a minute, the cabin width is indeed 257" but the floor width is less. Seats must fit within 248".



I have always wondered if the side of window coach seats could be properly trimmed to move it closer to the walls and give each seat some more millimeters width. It would not work on the A330/340 because of the passenger head interfering with the side wall. But on the A380 main deck it should work fine.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:16 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 77):
What is the floor width of the B777? or the shoulder width 231 inch on the B 777 and 235 inch on the B 777-X are also measured on the broadest part of the cabin.

As far as can see, 231" for the B777. The 777X will gain 4".



Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 77):
2 aisle at 19", 12 armrest at 1,5 inch, 11 seat at 17,5 inch gives 248,5 inch, still more space than on a 10 a row Y on the B 777.

That's about right. I have 17.4" seats, which are a wider than the current B777 (17") and should be the same as on the future B777X (17.4").

http://s9.postimg.org/k1umke46n/Screenshot_from_2013_11_11_16_14_28.png

[Edited 2013-11-11 07:17:59]
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:54 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 81):

The drawing shows 229 inch as the usable width for the B 777. So the B 777-X should have 233 inch usable width.

So for the B 777 with 10 a row Y there would be 2 aisles at 19", 10 seats at 17.1" and 13 arm rest at 1.5", that gives 228.5".
For the B 777-X with 10 a row Y there would be 2 aisles at 19", 10 seats at 17.5" and 13 arm rest at 1.5", that would give 232.5".

When the customers of the A 380 stay with 10 a row Y, they can offer 2 aisles at 20.75, 10 Seats at 19", 11 armrests at 1.5 (the two outer armrests fall in the area of extra space) fitting into the 248" floor width.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:43 am

Quoting rjm717 (Reply 74):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 55):
EK's 7-abreast business class on their A332s is even worse than the 777. I can't think of any other major carriers that have operated A330s or A340s with 7-abreast J class

Are you including carriers like Deathstar, ... oops, sorry - JETstar? They are 2-3-2 on the 332 and will be the same on the 787

No, I wasn't including LCC and leisure carriers like Jetstar, Air Transat etc.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:49 am

Tim Clark about 11-abreast on the A380:

Quote:
Emirates A380 11 abreast offering would maintain 18inch seat width...IF they do it: Tim Clark

http://twitter.com/airchive/status/401994820207804416
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:50 pm

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 51):
10 across A380
9 across B777
11 across A380
10 across B777

Where does the 777X rank on this list?
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
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LondonCity
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:22 pm

There's up-to-date news on Aviation Week today regarding Emirates plans for 11-across in Y on the A380.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/awx_11_17_2013_p0-637682.xml
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:03 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 85):
Quoting Boysteve (Reply 51):
10 across A380
9 across B777
11 across A380
10 across B777

Where does the 777X rank on this list?

All thinks being subjective, but plain measurements with the same breadth of aisle:

10 across A380
9 across B777-8/9
9 across B777
11 across A380
10 across B777-8/9
10 across B777

With the floor breadth of the A 380 staying as it is, the A380 in 11 across gives only slightly more space as the 10 across B777-8/9 for each seat, but if the Airbus engineers find a way to make a little more space, moving the floor up, thinning the isolation, it could be quite a bit more space for 11 seats across in the A380 than for 10 seats across in the B777-8/9.
 
goosebayguy
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:23 pm

So much for the gym that Airbus used in its marketing of the 380 due to all that space!
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:41 pm

Emirates talks about going to 11 across, but keeping a 18" seat. I calculated above 11 seats at 17.5" for the A 380.
To go to 18 seats Airbus would have to find 5.5" inch. I do not think that this will be mission impossible.

The space at seat cushion height would need to be about 254 inch or 6.45 m.
the outer fuselage width is 7.14 m, the maximum cabin width is now 6.54 m
 
Viscount724
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:57 pm

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 88):
So much for the gym that Airbus used in its marketing of the 380 due to all that space!

It's no different than the early years of 747, DC-10 and L-1011 service, when 747s were 9-abreast and most of the 3-engine widebodies were 8-abreast. When fuel prices skyrocketed in the mid-70s, it didn't take long before the 747s were converted to 10-abreast and DC-10s-L-1011s to 9-abreast. By the end of the '70s very few were operating with their original spacious configurations. With rare exceptions, the upper deck lounge common on early 747s and the various lounges on other widebodies, sometimes including a lounge for Y class passengers on a few U.S. domestic carriers, were rapidly converted to revenue-generating seats.

[Edited 2013-11-17 13:58:24]
 
Scipio
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:02 am

According to this Aviation Week article, the 11-abreast configuration would be available only between doors 2 and 4:

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/awx_11_18_2013_p0-637965.xml

Taking Airbus's recently-launched 558-seat layout as a basis, adding a middle seat between doors 2 and 4 would result in only 23 additional seats. So, you get a 581-seat configuration.

http://oi41.tinypic.com/10ihqms.jpg

For a discussion on the 558-seat layout, see the previous thread on the topic (from which I also got the picture above):

Airbus Revises A380 Layout (by KarelXWB Jun 6 2013 in Civil Aviation)
 
LondonCity
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:24 pm

According to this latest Bloomberg report, Airbus is considering adding winglets to improve performance and so squeeze in more Y passengers 11-across.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...ing-boost-with-winglets-seats.html
 
trex8
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:28 am

Quoting Scipio (Reply 91):
According to this Aviation Week article, the 11-abreast configuration would be available only between doors 2 and 4:

Well in that case I can't see the "raising the floor" method being the means of getting that extra seat space. What are they going to do , have a step (s) or ramp at the borders with the adjacent cabins? Has any modern jetliner had anything like this on a main cabin floor??
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:39 am

While we wait for 11-abreast A380s, Emirates will introduce 2-class A380s with 617 seats:

http://twitter.com/MaxABEd/status/403122966998683648
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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EPA001
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:13 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 94):
Emirates will introduce 2-class A380s with 617 seats:

That will shake up the CASM-values compared to the competition if they fill all the seats.  
 
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BaconButty
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:30 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 93):
Well in that case I can't see the "raising the floor" method being the means of getting that extra seat space. What are they going to do , have a step (s) or ramp at the borders with the adjacent cabins? Has any modern jetliner had anything like this on a main cabin floor??

Just speculating, obviously, but it may be that they raise the floor throughout, but that due to the tapering cross sections at the front and back the benefits of increased cabin widths are not realized.

Don't know if anyone else has mentioned it, but raising the floor like this isn't unprecedented - it was done on the CRJ200->700 transition iirc. Also, the upper floor for the 800F was intended to be at a different height which was supposed to benefit new build viz a viz P2Fs. Can't remember whether it was lower or higher - I assume lower.

If you can realize, say, 4'' from this and 4'' from reduced insulation/sidewall sculpting then it may be that the A380 still has a tolerable Y class. Here's hoping.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
na
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RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:42 pm

"Emirates want 11 across seats on A380", that following the infamous 77W example, screwing the passenger. Next thing is they charge extra for anyone over 120 kg weight because he/she wont fit into the narrower seats. I thought the average size of humans is growing, not shrinking.

Better would be offer compartments with 10 and 11 across on the same plane, and fill them according to passenger size, kids, short people and slim women in 11, grown-up men in 10. The 10er row would also have 2 inches more legroom. That would be fair at least. There is always talk about discrimination of religion or race, so why not fight against the discrimination of body size? With your booking you fill in your size and weight, and the computer will seat you in the right place.
 
trex8
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Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:49 pm

Quoting na (Reply 97):

"Emirates want 11 across seats on A380", that following the infamous 77W example, screwing the passenger. Next thing is they charge extra for anyone over 120 kg weight because he/she wont fit into the narrower seats. I thought the average size of humans is growing, not shrinking.

Weren't 17 in seats the norm on 707/Dc8s and still on 737s??? Yes everyone is a little bigger these days but everyone also survived fine on the older planes. Sure, give me a 18 in on an A330 any day but I can remember 20+ hrs on a 707 full economy charter and it wasnt fun but its wasn't the end of the world and most of the travelling public will put up with it just fine.
 
r2rho
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

RE: Emirates Want 11 Across Seats On A380

Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:04 pm

Quoting malioil (Reply 59):
I personally doubt that many are aware of the different comfort levels available on various airlines, and are more likely to book on convenience + price alone.

Not only are many not aware, but they have no easy means to be aware with current booking methods. Booking engines and portals say nothing about seat width or pitch (nor many other extras). Even airlines themselves do nothing to promote this on their own websites, to set themselves apart from others. By promoting 18" seats, Airbus is really doing the marketing work that airlines should have done themselves but have (deliberately?) failed to.

Let's face it, only a minority of frequent travelers and aviation geeks check out width and pitch on sites like seatguru (which is not fully reliable). So there is no product differentiation possible other than price and schedule. In that case, the choice is clear...

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