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ERJ170
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Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:18 pm

Another route for RDU on Delta..

RDU-LAS begins March 2nd.. offering 3x weekly service..

737-800w service

Departs RDU 19:45 Arrives LAS 21:55
Departs LAS 22:40 Arrives RDU 6:00

Operates Sun, Thu, Fri

Information from Delta website interactive route map..  Smile

[Edited 2013-11-16 13:30:01]
Aiming High and going far..
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:45 pm

Another 3x weekly route from LAS....I wonder if it will start to fill the void that LAX left when their 3-4x weekly routes went daily!          
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
ANA787
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:51 pm

Hopefully the rumored RDU-CDG flight will be announced next.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:36 pm

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 2):
Hopefully the rumored RDU-CDG flight will be announced next.

Don't expect that to happen anytime soon without heavy subsidising and it's currently not on the table.
What gets measured gets done.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:46 pm

Good timing. Late evening departure from RDU and a Red eye return is good for LAS and a good use of plane time. This might work. Southwest has pretty good timing also on the route. There is probably room for two carriers.
 
papatango
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:06 pm

Next I hope they add a CMH-LAS red eye!
 
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casinterest
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:01 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 3):
Don't expect that to happen anytime soon without heavy subsidising and it's currently not on the table.

To be honest, I am waiting for AA/US to drop the LHR route, and then see DL swoop in and take LHR and CDG in one fell swoop.

I think AA/US will drop RDU-LHR due to the proximity to CLT. DL and other airlines have a lot of potential out of RDU going forward.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:10 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 6):
To be honest, I am waiting for AA/US to drop the LHR route, and then see DL swoop in and take LHR and CDG in one fell swoop.

Not going to happen.

Nevermind the fact that Raleigh-Europe is just big enough to support one daily flights (which has poor loads half the year). There is a reason Delta never started RDU-CDG. The market isn't there.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 6):
DL and other airlines have a lot of potential out of RDU going forward.

Yeah, because RDU's now largest airline has so little potential...
a.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:14 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 7):
ah, because RDU's now largest airline has so little potential...

The New American is pretty much sticking to their cornerstone markets.. I don't think we will see much more out of them..

They currently have CLT, PHL, DCA, MIA, ORD, DFW, LGA, JFK, LAX, and LHR. All hubs are covered except PHX. That may be the only additional hub/cornerstone they may add. The fact we got PIT is only because it's an at-risk flight that does well. I don't see any other potential out of US because the new US management has pretty much set the cornerstones as the only destination. AA did it and US did it so I don't see any changes.

The only change i could see is DCA upgraded to E70/CR7 and may additional ORD flights... and that very very very slim chance of PHX...
Aiming High and going far..
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:28 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
The New American is pretty much sticking to their cornerstone markets..

And we know that how?

The cornerstone strategy dies with the merger. It is now the world's largest airline and don't be surprised if it takes advantage of strong business markets where it is the largest airline - markets like Boston (virtually tied for largest), Raleigh and Pittsburgh.

RDUPHX is a given if the role of PHX hub remains, because AA is very strong in Raleigh.

[Edited 2013-11-16 16:37:35]
a.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:06 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 7):
Not going to happen.

Nevermind the fact that Raleigh-Europe is just big enough to support one daily flights (which has poor loads half the year). There is a reason Delta never started RDU-CDG. The market isn't there.

RDU is the fastest growing market east of the Mississippi. I just don't see how AA/US don't abandon RDU for Long Haul in favor of CLT and PHL. As you said, they are half full loads. DL has more potential to use the Subsides and other items as offloads of JFK. ATL on European flights from partner airlines;.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 7):

Yeah, because RDU's now largest airline has so little potential...

It has been my experience that when Airlines merge they will concentrate on their cornerstone operations, at the expense of other markets. RDU is an important business market, but having flown the 20 minute skip flight into CLT many times, it just has too much proximity to CLT for AA to concentrate effort there. I expect AA to build out GSO more during the next 5 years.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
markets like Boston (virtually tied for largest), Raleigh and Pittsburgh.

They will possibly be strong on these markets, but I expect B6 and DL to fight it out on some of these routes.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
steex
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:20 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 10):
I just don't see how AA/US don't abandon RDU for Long Haul in favor of CLT and PHL. As you said, they are half full loads

Loads are sometimes low, but they have a revenue guarantee. There is no reason whatsoever for AA to walk away from that.
 
commavia
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:29 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 6):
To be honest, I am waiting for AA/US to drop the LHR route, and then see DL swoop in and take LHR and CDG in one fell swoop.

And this is expected ... why ... exactly?

As already stated, the RDU-Europe market isn't exactly huge in relative terms. It is now among the, if not the, smallest U.S. population centers with a nonstop flight to Europe. It is highly questionable that it could support two nonstop flights to Europe. In addition, a fair amount of the RDU-Europe market is centered specifically on London due to corporate connections - so it's far more logical for LHR to be served from RDU and not CDG. Beyond that, LHR offers plenty of connectivity into Continental Europe and beyond, so no real appreciable advantage there for CDG, either. So if LHR makes the most sense for O&D reasons, then doesn't the JV with the hub at LHR make the most sense to fly the RDU-Europe flight?

AA has been successfully operating the RDU-LHR route now for going on two decades. Why would AA still be flying it if it was grossly unprofitable and/or at least didn't serve some broader strategic function for the company? And thus, why would AA drop it now if it hasn't already? Hint: AA won't drop it just to do a favor for Delta.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 6):
DL and other airlines have a lot of potential out of RDU going forward.

As does AA, which - as was already said - will soon be RDU's largest carrier again.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 10):
It has been my experience that when Airlines merge they will concentrate on their cornerstone operations, at the expense of other markets.

Perhaps. That has, in fact, been AA's stated strategy/policy for almost half a decade now, and yet RDU-LHR still remains. Hmmm ...

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
The only change i could see is DCA upgraded to E70/CR7 and may additional ORD flights

I think RDU-BOS is coming back, too. It's a gaping whole for the combined airline's otherwise-very-strong presence at both ends of the route, and given the new strength of AA in both markets, they should be able to make this work. With that flight, AA would not only solidify its strength in the RDU-Northeast markets, but really also round out just about all the major North Carolina-Northeast markets as well.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
It is now the world's largest airline and don't be surprised if it takes advantage of strong business markets where it is the largest airline - markets like Boston (virtually tied for largest), Raleigh and Pittsburgh.

  

I think PIT-LHR, BOS-RDU and BOS-SFO are all entirely plausible post-merger.
 
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:39 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 10):
I just don't see how AA/US don't abandon RDU for Long Haul in favor of CLT and PHL.

It makes so much sense for AA/BA to abandon a profitable trans-Atlantic route, true.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 10):
DL has more potential to use the Subsides and other items as offloads of JFK. ATL on European flights from partner airlines;.

And what exactly is DL going to offer in Heathrow? Not much. The flight won't survive without strong connections availabe at the Heathrow end. Two of the most important feeder flights for this route are actually Bangalore and Bombay.
a.
 
papatango
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:50 am

A CMH-SLC red eye would work!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:53 am

I think AA would only leave if its revenue guarantee went away. The pharmaceutical companies pay the majority and I think a few others chip in to keep the N/S to LHR alive. I don't think its a profitable flight hence why they need a revenue guarantee for so many years, its a very developed route I don't see any potential to grow the market, its been there for years and years. BA has so many connections at LHR Delta would probably get even less people on board, just reality. No way Delta is gonna jump in unless they can get the revenue guarantee and steal it from AA.

Are there many business connections between Paris and RDU? You would need some for the flight to work aka people to pay for business class. LHR offers one stop connections to almost everywhere CDG would already and your going up against a competitor with a revenue guarantee so that's already an uphill battle to fight for connections.
 
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:46 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 6):
To be honest, I am waiting for AA/US to drop the LHR route, and then see DL swoop in and take LHR and CDG in one fell swoop.

I think AA/US will drop RDU-LHR due to the proximity to CLT. DL and other airlines have a lot of potential out of RDU going forward.

This flight has been around for 20 years. Given the value of a LHR slot, why wouldn't they have moved it already if it's such a dog?
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:32 am

Just to clarify, there are Revenue Guarantees available for CDG and FRA already.... LHR is not using the revenue guarantee... And the revenue guarantee is not a pharmaceutical but by the Research Triangle Regional Partnership.... A nonprofit group set up for economic development and business cohesion.....

The revenue guarantee was pulled from Delta for CDG because AA threatened to pull the LHR flight if Delta got a revenue guarantee and they were no longer getting one...
Aiming High and going far..
 
Indy
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:46 am

Quoting papatango (Reply 5):
Next I hope they add a CMH-LAS red eye!

After they add IND-LAS. Once they do that I will give my approval to the CMH-LAS route  

LAS used to be a huge destination out of IND. Multiple carriers running big jets. You'd see 757's and L1011's on the route. I think at one point there were 3 or 4 carriers. We had TZ, HP, NW and WN on the route. Am I missing anyone? Now the route is down to two 737's a day with WN. How bad is it out of CMH now?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:00 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 17):
And the revenue guarantee is not a pharmaceutical but by the Research Triangle Regional Partnership.... A nonprofit group set up for economic development and business cohesion.....

I thought GlaxoSmithKline headquarters in England with US headquarters in RDU pays the highest amount for the flight.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:06 am

Perhaps.. But they pay into a pool... And right now the revenue guarantees in place are for CDG and FRA...
Aiming High and going far..
 
Lexy
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:13 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 10):
RDU is the fastest growing market east of the Mississippi.

Fastest growing in what way? That title belongs to MIA and possibly BNA. BNA, from an airport point of view, has seen more growth than RDU has.

That is a highly debatable statement.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
Noise
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:11 am

I like how RDU has become a focus city for DL as of late.
 
Indy
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:20 am

Quoting Noise (Reply 22):
I like how RDU has become a focus city for DL as of late.

I think it has been one for quite a while now. I know DL has flown between IND and RDU for quite a while. I think they have had a number of non hub flights for a while and they also have a Sky Club. BTW was the club in the old terminal?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
point2point
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:22 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
All hubs are covered except PHX.
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
RDUPHX is a given if the role of PHX hub remains, because AA is very strong in Raleigh.

And compete with WN on this route? Would AA dare?

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 2):
Hopefully the rumored RDU-CDG flight will be announced next.
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 4):
Late evening departure from RDU and a Red eye return
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 20):
And right now the revenue guarantees in place are for CDG and FRA...

Maybe CDG could be a red-eye return as well?

Anyways, all the best for all involved, and it's good for the RDU area pax that at least DL is willing to give some competition to WN here. May the fares get reduced, and that lots RDU area pax get a chance to know what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas......

 
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:25 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 24):
And compete with WN on this route? Would AA dare?

And this would be different from many of its current PHX routes how?
a.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:46 am

Quoting steex (Reply 11):
Loads are sometimes low, but they have a revenue guarantee. There is no reason whatsoever for AA to walk away from that.

AA has always walked away from routes if more profitable opportunities are out there. I expect that when CLT and PHL are part of the fold, it will not make as much sense for them to use the metal on RDU_LHR. I could be wrong though.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 13):
And what exactly is DL going to offer in Heathrow? Not much. The flight won't survive without strong connections availabe at the Heathrow end. Two of the most important feeder flights for this route are actually Bangalore and Bombay.

DL would be able to offer the connections though LHR and CDG on partner airlines, much as AA/BA does in LHR.

Quoting Lexy (Reply 21):

Fastest growing in what way? That title belongs to MIA and possibly BNA. BNA, from an airport point of view, has seen more growth than RDU has.

That is a highly debatable statement.

Population wise. The MSA and CSA are growing at about 4% with a base of ~2,000,0000 folks. RDU has been suffering as of late from a lack of competition on routes. Perhaps this is changing now that the post merger shakeout is more apparent.

Quoting point2point (Reply 24):
And compete with WN on this route? Would AA dare?

US used to fly the route, but has taken it off the schedule as of late. Having it return would not be a total surprise, but I just don't expect it out of AA at this point.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:38 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 26):
DL would be able to offer the connections though LHR and CDG on partner airlines, much as AA/BA does in LHR.
DL cannot offer the connections on the scale that AA/BA do. The route can't survive purely on O&D. And I'm not sure why you are bringing up RDU-CDG. Not happening. Delta already tried it, and the advance ticket sales were quite clearly beyond horrible or it would have launched.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 26):
AA has always walked away from routes if more profitable opportunities are out there. I expect that when CLT and PHL are part of the fold, it will not make as much sense for them to use the metal on RDU_LHR. I could be wrong though.

RDULHR is a subsidized service with guaranteed profit. AA isn't going to give that up. The only thing that will see the route pulled is if the guarantees are pulled.

The thought of Delta flying RDULHR is beyond laughable. At least RDUCDG has a hub on one end.

[Edited 2013-11-16 23:41:01]
a.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:06 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 26):
AA has always walked away from routes if more profitable opportunities are out there. I expect that when CLT and PHL are part of the fold, it will not make as much sense for them to use the metal on RDU_LHR. I could be wrong though.

Totally 100% correct but when a revenue guarantee exists that changes EVERYTHING. RDU-LHR has no risk for AA. The only reason I see AA would want to leave is if the revenue guarantee ends or shifts.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 27):
DL cannot offer the connections on the scale that AA/BA do

Agreed. No way Delta would not be able to fill as many seats as AA they don't have a hub on either end. AA has a huge BA hub in LHR to connect people to almost anywhere. This is a super established route, theres no room for growth its been operated for years. There is clearly no room for two carriers on this route. The only way I can see DL starting this route is if they can somehow steal the revenue guarantee.
 
PITrules
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:47 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
. The pharmaceutical companies pay the majority and I think a few others chip in to keep the N/S to LHR alive. I don't think its a profitable flight hence why they need a revenue guarantee for so many years,

Let's think about this for a moment. The desire for service from RDU to London is so great by some local corporations that not only are they willing to buy seats on the flight that they would use, but they go even further to guarantee the revenue on a number of seats on every flight even if they don't even use them, just to ensure the service continues because it is that important to them. This to me shows a stronger, not weaker local market.

Furthermore, considering that the overall revenue generated by the flight has been above the 'revenue guarantee' as suggested by other members for several years, this flight would seem to be very profitable.

So much so that is was a 777 even when AA had few 777s.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
It is now the world's largest airline and don't be surprised if it takes advantage of strong business markets where it is the largest airline - markets like Boston (virtually tied for largest), Raleigh and Pittsburgh.

While I agree Pittsburgh is a strong business market, I can't say I'm impressed with the loads on the new PIT-LAX flight, although fares are a few hundred dollars higher than other comparable markets such as IND and CMH, in addition to being a slower time of year.
FLYi
 
Womack17
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:53 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Thread starter):
RDU-LAS begins March 2nd.. offering 3x weekly service.

SO NICE to see this long over-due flight on Delta!!

Nice to see what DL is doing in RDU - lot of growth and

MY dear friend, ERJ, and myself, have been saying for years just keep watching Delta!!

Gonna make me some reservations to fly in to LAS
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:07 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 29):
Let's think about this for a moment. The desire for service from RDU to London is so great by some local corporations that not only are they willing to buy seats on the flight that they would use, but they go even further to guarantee the revenue on a number of seats on every flight even if they don't even use them, just to ensure the service continues because it is that important to them. This to me shows a stronger, not weaker local market.

Furthermore, considering that the overall revenue generated by the flight has been above the 'revenue guarantee' as suggested by other members for several years, this flight would seem to be very profitable.

Look I think AA is smart to keep running on the route. Why not run a route with no risk.
If the market were so great they wouldn't need a revenue guarantee. No one is able to show that they are not using the guarantee from what I've seen. AA could definitely run a 777 on the route right now if they wanted. Its just reality that delta wont be able to do as well as AA with a huge BA hub, the market isn't large enough for 2 carriers, and a revenue guarantee exists for a reason and has continued to exist even after the route is very mature.

There is certainly not room for 2 carriers on this route. People do report it being very empty at times. I certainly think its strong enough and a no brainer to run for 1 airline with a revenue guarantee our there.

The demand is 88 people from RDU-London(all airports) clearly that can't fill two planes and you would never get all the o&d on your plane. AA has to take a large amount of connecting passengers already to make it work looking at that number a 767 holds 218 people and the demand is 88. plus its unrealistic to think all 88 are on the N/S as some have loyalty or find lower fares connecting in BOS/NYC where low fares are plentiful to London.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:21 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 26):
DL would be able to offer the connections though LHR

errrr.
not really.

If DL started a route from RDU, it would likely be CDG. I can't see DL/VS using a LHR slot on RDU when they have so many other places they want to add a flight or frequency.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 27):
The thought of Delta flying RDULHR is beyond laughable.

aaaaaaaaaaaand once again you go way to far.

what a shocker.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:37 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 32):
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 27):
The thought of Delta flying RDULHR is beyond laughable.

aaaaaaaaaaaand once again you go way to far.

Suggesting that an airline can't fill a point-to-point trans-Atlantic flight in a relatively small market is going way too far? Delta and the AF/KL venture has had enough trouble the past few years maintaining service in far more lucrative and larger markets, including from London.

You even admit in the same post that DL won't fly LHRRDU. Or did you forget that?

[Edited 2013-11-17 02:40:00]
a.
 
commavia
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:53 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 17):
LHR is not using the revenue guarantee
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 17):
The revenue guarantee was pulled from Delta for CDG because AA threatened to pull the LHR flight if Delta got a revenue guarantee and they were no longer getting one

Okay ... so let's step through this logic step by step.

What does this tell us about the relative priority the RTP assigns to each market? If the prospect of providing a subsidy for CDG leads to the threat of losing LHR altogether, and that causes them to drop the CDG subsidy entirely, that seems to imply that LHR is really the important market, not CDG. In RDU, it appears LHR is the Europe market one that drives the largest O&D demand (as is the case in virtually every major U.S. city). So, if this is the case, why not optimize the only RDU-Europe flight (and as others have said, and I agree, I do not think it's realistic for RDU to support more than one Europe flight) for the O&D, and use the connections as gravy, and not the other way around? So, if this is accepted, and LHR is deemed the superior market for a nonstop flight from RDU, then who should fly it? The airline with a massive hub at the other end and soon-to-be largest carrier at RDU, or the soon-to-be-#2 carrier at RDU with virtually no onward connectivity at LHR?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 26):
AA has always walked away from routes if more profitable opportunities are out there.

And yet ... again ... RDU-LHR remains. Telling ...
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:33 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 20):
And right now the revenue guarantees in place are for CDG and FRA...
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 17):
The revenue guarantee was pulled from Delta for CDG because AA threatened to pull the LHR flight if Delta got a revenue guarantee and they were no longer getting one...

I don't understand. Do you mean the revenue guarantee for RDU-CDG is in place for any airline BUT DL?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 26):
RDU has been suffering as of late from a lack of competition on routes.

Welcome to the club.
 
BoeingMerica
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:53 pm

So how does this move make sense... Assuming it is a success and a profit maker, which isn't a big stretch I just fail to see why they would start such a point to point operation that pretty much directly overflies (it goes a little north) their largest hub?

Is it simply they see an opportunity to use an airframe that would otherwise sit on the ground? If that is the sole reason I get it, but I mean Atlanta is literally right there next door.

BoeingMerica
I like my Barack like I like my vegetables, I hate vegetables
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:59 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Thread starter):
Another route for RDU on Delta..

RDU-LAS begins March 2nd.. offering 3x weekly service..

Well, that's unexpected... I can't see this working long term, but it'll be a nice route to burn some skypesos on.  
Quoting Lexy (Reply 21):

Fastest growing in what way? That title belongs to MIA and possibly BNA. BNA, from an airport point of view, has seen more growth than RDU has.

That is a highly debatable statement.

The Raleigh-Cary CSA grew 42% between 2000-2010.

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-01.pdf
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
Indy
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:09 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 29):

Let's think about this for a moment. The desire for service from RDU to London is so great by some local corporations that not only are they willing to buy seats on the flight that they would use, but they go even further to guarantee the revenue on a number of seats on every flight even if they don't even use them, just to ensure the service continues because it is that important to them. This to me shows a stronger, not weaker local market.

I would have to disagree with that. In my opinion it implies a lack of confidence in the route. If the local businesses felt the market was strong they wouldn't need to offer guarantees on the route. This doesn't mean that the market, in reality, is strong or weak. It just means that there is a lack of confidence. Perhaps the lack of confidence is in the airlines doing the right thing and not in the strength of the local market. I will concede that either option is a possibility. Airlines do have a history of making questionable moves.

I am not quite sure how we ended up on RDU-LHR.

Since we are slightly off topic I thought I'd add another comment. I think RDU has an amazing terminal. It is such a warm and inviting place. I don't recall any other terminal that goes downhill though. It isn't a bad thing. Just different. The giant wood beams are a great touch. That still may end up being my home airport some day.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:11 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 38):
Since we are slightly off topic I thought I'd add another comment. I think RDU has an amazing terminal. It is such a warm and inviting place. I don't recall any other terminal that goes downhill though. It isn't a bad thing. Just different. The giant wood beams are a great touch. That still may end up being my home airport some day.

Terminal 2 (I assume you're referring to) is quite nice. T1, notsomuch. However, it's undergoing renovations as well and they should be finished next year. Nothing to the scale of T2, but it will be an improvement from the gates that WN/FL have now.
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FWAERJ
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:13 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 18):
I think at one point there were 3 or 4 carriers. We had TZ, HP, NW and WN on the route. Am I missing anyone?

FL flew IND-LAS twice, too.

As recently as 2008, IND-LAS was flown by WN 3x daily, FL daily, and NW daily. Likewise, IND-PHX was served by US 2x daily, WN 2x daily, and NW as well (not sure about the frequency). The same year, G4 cited the intense competition on IND-LAS and IND-PHX plus the normal high fuel prices as the two primary reasons for discontinuing both FWA-LAS and FWA-AZA. (FWA-AZA has since come back, and I think that as soon as Airbuses are added at LAS, it won't be far behind.)

After the Great Recession: On IND-LAS, DL (post-NW merger) cut it to weekend-only service, FL ended the route (then resumed it, then ended it again), WN went from 3x to 2x, and DL cut it. On IND-PHX, DL cut the route after the NW merger, then WN went from 2x to 1x. US stayed at 2x. I'd say that in both cases, those were pretty dramatic cuts for a city of Indy's size.
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Indy
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:15 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 39):
Terminal 2 (I assume you're referring to) is quite nice.

Yes.. T2. Love it. I don't fly WN so I'd never see T1. If people are ever doing a mileage run I'd suggest RDU. Go early and fly back late. They have some great spots for photography. Unfortunately I didn't get to stay and take pics on my trips. Is the observation tower still open?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
cessna2
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:30 pm

Ok lets put some of this to rest...
RDU-LHR is not going anywhere. AA will continue to serve the route post-merger. Also the 777 should make its return to RDU-LHR once the cabin reconfigs are done and AA starts to retire its 763 fleet and the 787's come online.

RDU-CDG: However its not currently on the table its still not out of the realm of possibility. The likely scenario would be seasonal Daily service during the busy Summer travel season. As this area continues to grow and the needs of the thousands of businesses continue to grow I expect the market to continue to grow over the next decade. Also keep in mind RDU-LHR has the largest LHR O&D in the state. CLT relies heavily on connections with very local demand.

Congrats to Delta and RDU for another route. DL continues to grow by upgrading aircraft on routes, adding more frequencies, and adding new routes. With the reduction of MEM and the now approved merger of AA/US I expect the RDU market to heat up between DL and AA as DL tries to keep hold of a market it believes to be its own. Interesting times ahead thats for sure!
 
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FlyPIJets
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:44 pm

WN used to run RDU-LAS 2X daily. Now I think it is 1X daily. Was/is WN second non-stop seasonal? Will it come back?
Rex Kramer: Get that finger out of your ear! You don't know where that finger's been!
 
DeltaRules
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:06 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 18):
How bad is it out of CMH now?

Used to have several flights a day from HP (737/A319/A320/757), US (1990s, 737) , and WN (737). Once HP & US merged, they consolidated to two daily on US, then one, then none. Little-known trivia is that Southeast ran MD-80s LCK-LAS in the early 2000s as well.

Today, it's all WN, twice a day from CMH.
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LV
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:15 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 24):
what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas......

The LVCVA (the Clark county tourism board basically) just brought that slogan back. Market research shows it is one of the most widely recognized marketing slogans in the world. It was put on hold last year as the LVCVA focused it's marketing attention on launching the retail website LasVegas.com. (all this information came directly from articles in the Review Journal)

But back to topic... first BOS-LAS 3X now RDU-LAS 3X.... and of course there was the addition of SEA-LAS..... does DL suddenly have some interest in Vegas that wasn't there before? I mean as someone who makes his living from the tourists in this town great... the more tourists the bigger my bonus check but I am trying to figure out what is behind these flights (well SEA-LAS is a given)
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:25 pm

Delta has become very willing to do less than daily service now. This is making some Vegas look more attractive I think . Vegas is such a tough market because the demand so uneven. This is really how Allegiant has been able to be profitable in the LAS market while others failed. I think Delta is giving it a shot, try some vegas less than daily flying, why not? RDU-LAS N/S is underserved and delta has a large base of FFs. I think it makes total sense to try a little Vegas for Delta right now.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:04 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 46):

I think it's a smart move. It kills me sometimes when people say LAS and MCO is all leisure. A good chunk of it is, but not all of it. Makes me wonder if they're also banking on some convention traffic ex RDU heading to LAS during those months. It's pretty much the same deal to MCO. Granted, a good portion is FF award tickets but there's a solid base of business fares for the above mentioned reason.
What gets measured gets done.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:14 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 47):
A good chunk of it is, but not all of it. Makes me wonder if they're also banking on some convention traffic

Even the convention traffic in LAS tends be very uneven and spotty on demand days of week. The business demand in LAS has to be miniscule compared to the leisure demand. It could never be a legacy hub way too leisure based, why southwest and allegiant have thrived in a market where the legacies have abandoned most point to point flying.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5332
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:12 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 33):

Suggesting that an airline can't fill a point-to-point trans-Atlantic flight in a relatively small market is going way too far? Delta and the AF/KL venture has had enough trouble the past few years maintaining service in far more lucrative and larger markets, including from London.

Its not a point to point route.
Delta has a hub in LHR now.....or are you just blocking that out in your mind? AF/KL have nothing to do with it.

Now, those Virgin guys......

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 33):
You even admit in the same post that DL won't fly LHRRDU. Or did you forget that?

No.

But as normal, you come into a Delta thread talking about Delta would fail and how super amazing AA is.

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