MAH4546
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:25 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 49):
Delta has a hub in LHR now.....or are you just blocking that out in your mind?

I'm not blocking a single thing. VS operates an O&D focused long-haul operation with a handful of money losing, not long to last empty feeder flights done as a form of chest thumping by Branson. It's not hub. AF and KL offer more feed to DL in Heathrow than VS does. Sorry to burst your bubble. Buying a stake in a money losing airline with a poor network doesn't solve Delta and SkyTeam's London problem.

[Edited 2013-11-17 21:28:27]
a.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:43 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 50):
It's not hub.

Its not?

That odd, Virgin says it is. It certainly fits the description of a hub.....

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 50):
Buying a stake in a money losing airline with a poor network doesn't solve Delta and SkyTeam's London problem.

Right because no one has any contracts with Virgin and no one will fly Virgin. Every single person and every single corp. person will only fly BA.  
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 50):
Sorry to burst your bubble.

your not at all. Your just simply doing what you always do. AA is just simply the only choice.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:13 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 51):
Its not?

To be fair to MAH, it isn't really a hub in the traditional sense. A long haul O&D focus city would be a more accurate term.

And other than MAN, EDI and ABZ where can VS really provide feed to DL? BOM and DXB are the only destinations that come to mind, and DL already flies to both on their own metal, plus plenty of flights to both on AF and KL.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
commavia
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:28 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 49):
Delta has a hub in LHR now
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 51):
Its not?

No - not really. I think it's really stretching plausibility to use that term attached to Delta's operation at LHR. Delta's P.R. team can say whatever they want but the reality is that it's essentially a large O&D operation that offers very limited connectivity.

As has already been stated, due to scheduling practicalities across the Atlantic, a hypothetical Delta RDU-LHR flight would be able to offer reasonable 2-way connectivity to a maximum of 4 reasonably circuitous cities - ABZ, EDI, MAN and BOM - and if we're being extremely generous, we could also possibly add in JNB and CPT. That's it. The present AA flight RDU-LHR offers online connectivity beyond LHR on BA flights to literally dozens of such markets. The comparison isn't even close. It would be basically the same thing as saying that AA offers "hub" connectivity to make a RDU-CDG flight work because somebody could connect to AUH and AMM. Not quite.
 
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tlecam
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:00 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
The cornerstone strategy dies with the merger. It is now the world's largest airline and don't be surprised if it takes advantage of strong business markets where it is the largest airline - markets like Boston (virtually tied for largest), Raleigh and Pittsburgh

I agree with this. This merger is that it marks the end of large scale consolidation amongst the major airlines here in the states. To that end, growth will come organically rather than inorganically moving forward. To me, the most interesting part of the merger will be battles play out in the non-hub cities, especially those with strong business markets. The three you mentioned are interesting, particularly as they are all former hubs or focus cities.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
Womack17
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:47 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 41):
Is the observation tower still open?

You bet - one of the best on the entire east coast -

Check out this you tube video and see what you're missing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMRqaGZGlaY


-Womack 17
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:55 pm

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 55):
You bet - one of the best on the entire east coast -

Check out this you tube video and see what you're missing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMRqa...ZGlaY

It was even better until UNC added their hanger onto the terminal on the right. The Café across the street in the General Aviation building is great for spotting too, however most of the traffic these days are on the 23R 5L side.

Quoting commavia (Reply 53):

As has already been stated, due to scheduling practicalities across the Atlantic, a hypothetical Delta RDU-LHR flight would be able to offer reasonable 2-way connectivity to a maximum of 4 reasonably circuitous cities - ABZ, EDI, MAN and BOM - and if we're being extremely generous, we could also possibly add in JNB and CPT. That's it. The present AA flight RDU-LHR offers online connectivity beyond LHR on BA flights to literally dozens of such markets. The comparison isn't even close. It would be basically the same thing as saying that AA offers "hub" connectivity to make a RDU-CDG flight work because somebody could connect to AUH and AMM. Not quite.

Correct, and my suppositions would still be that AA would have to drop LHR. If they don't , then I am wrong. But if they do drop it, I could see DL offering LHR and CDG with the subsides.

Either way, it looks like the next two years will get rather exciting with AA,DL and UA offering more and more service. I also expect WN to start concentrating a bit more on routes in and out of RDU as the Wright Amendment movements and AirTran merger movements are finalized
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:26 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 56):
It was even better until UNC added their hanger onto the terminal on the right.

UNC FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for CDG, I would like to believe DL would be interested in that.. but I think SEA will come well before CDG.. so I think that's what I'm looking out for..
Aiming High and going far..
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:39 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 56):
I also expect WN to start concentrating a bit more on routes in and out of RDU as the Wright Amendment movements and AirTran merger movements are finalized

FWIW--likely not much--multiple WN ground staff have told me to expect expansion after WN moves to the new part of Terminal 1.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:42 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 51):
That odd, Virgin says it is. It certainly fits the description of a hub.....

No, it doesn't.

AA offers more connectivity onto it's partners at Charles de Gaulle than Virgin does to Delta at Heathrow.

So if you want to call it a "hub," sure, then I'll call AA's Paris operation a hub, too.
a.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:47 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 58):
FWIW--likely not much--multiple WN ground staff have told me to expect expansion after WN moves to the new part of Terminal 1.

WN moves March 4th.. I would think if there was going to be any expansions, it would be announced to occur after March 4th..
Aiming High and going far..
 
cessna2
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:18 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 57):
but I think SEA will come well before CDG.. so I think that's what I'm looking out for..

For awhile there I would've argued that AS would operate the route...but with the recent announcement that all ground handling for AS by DL would end by March of 2014 its now more and more likely we'll see DL open that route. Its no secret its the most heavily sought after domestic route by the airport at the moment. I can also see quite a bit more at-risk flying out of RDU within the next couple of years. The battle between AA, DL, and WN is just heating up.
 
Indy
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:38 pm

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 55):
Check out this you tube video and see what you're missing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMRqaGZGlaY

I am so completely jealous. It makes me want to take a trip to RDU.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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MKE22
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:16 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 18):
Quoting papatango (Reply 5):
Next I hope they add a CMH-LAS red eye!

After they add IND-LAS. Once they do that I will give my approval to the CMH-LAS route

I wish DL would offer a seasonal MKE-LAS flight. FL and YX both used to fly the route in tandem for several years. I understand they both were competing to the death (YX), but even when only YX offered MKE-LAS they were up to about 4-5x/daily at one point. I often look at MKE-LAS-MKE fares and even though WN offers around 2-3x/daily, I think fares could be a little lower. Maybe I'm just being greedy.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:48 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 62):
I am so completely jealous. It makes me want to take a trip to RDU.

It's actually a great little park with a feed from the tower. There is also a sandbox and some pretend runways for the kids. Good place to pass the time.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:21 am

At the airport rdu who carries the most domestic passengers? WN? Excluding connecting route like rdu-alt-cun of course
 
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casinterest
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:37 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 65):
At the airport rdu who carries the most domestic passengers? WN? Excluding connecting route like rdu-alt-cun of course

There aren't many international routes. But WN is currently the market leader. However... the combined AA will have a much larger share of the market.

http://www.rdu.com/authority/suppfil.../activityreports/activity-0913.pdf
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:56 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 66):
But WN is currently the market leader. However... the combined AA will have a much larger share of the market.

http://www.rdu.com/authority/suppfil...3.pdf

I believe DL is the leader if you look at the entire DL brand (mainline plus connection). DL has 28% share versus WN's 20%.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:21 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 60):
WN moves March 4th.. I would think if there was going to be any expansions, it would be announced to occur after March 4th..

I think the expansions are over for at least the next decade.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 57):

UNC FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Forever CHeaters!  Smile

[Edited 2013-11-19 04:23:20]
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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casinterest
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:06 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 67):
I believe DL is the leader if you look at the entire DL brand (mainline plus connection). DL has 28% share versus WN's 20%.

Absolutely correct. I still had my mind wrapped around the pre merger statistics. Thanks for the clarification
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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tlecam
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:43 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 67):

I believe DL is the leader if you look at the entire DL brand (mainline plus connection). DL has 28% share versus WN's 20%.

How/where can I research the combined mainline plus connection share at U.S. airports?
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:27 am

Quoting tlecam (Reply 70):
How/where can I research the combined mainline plus connection share at U.S. airports?

Many airports post their traffic statistics online on their individual websites. You may have to hunt to find some of them on their sites, and not every airport website has them, but many do.
 
Womack17
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:07 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 64):
It's actually a great little park with a feed from the tower. There is also a sandbox and some pretend runways for the kids. Good place to pass the time.

I agree completely. The Live feed makes the entire experience more rewarding. As an amateur photographer, the feed lets me know who is arriving and departing!

-Womack 17
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
 
Indy
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:46 am

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 72):
I agree completely. The Live feed makes the entire experience more rewarding. As an amateur photographer, the feed lets me know who is arriving and departing!

We used to have an observation deck at IND that was part of the old terminal. It had a tower feed as well. Then 9/11 was used as an excuse to take it away. Sad, unfortunate, and completely unnecessary.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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tlecam
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:16 am

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 71):

Thanks!
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
Noise
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:47 am

How does DL's presence at RDU stack up to other airports such as MEM, BOS, LAX, CVG, etc? I'm wondering about daily ASM and number of flights per day.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:21 pm

Quoting Noise (Reply 75):
How does DL's presence at RDU stack up to other airports such as MEM, BOS, LAX, CVG, etc? I'm wondering about daily ASM and number of flights per day.

RDU would be behind LAX, BOS, and CVG in both metrics.
What gets measured gets done.
 
Womack17
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:40 pm

Quoting Noise (Reply 75):

How does DL's presence at RDU stack up to other airports such as MEM, BOS, LAX, CVG, etc? I'm wondering about daily ASM and number of flights per day.

Agreed - Is RDU ahead of MEM all around or just mainline?

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 76):
RDU would be behind LAX, BOS, and CVG in both metrics.

With CVG losing so many flights how close are RDU's numbers to CVG's?

QUESTION FOR ANYONE - Does RDU meet the definition of a FOCUS city for DL? I know AA considered RDU a focus city in the past; is this still the case?
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:53 pm

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 77):
With CVG losing so many flights how close are RDU's numbers to CVG's?

CVG isn't loosing "so many flights". CVG has been flat for quite a while now. CVG is still considerably larger than RDU.

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 77):
QUESTION FOR ANYONE - Does RDU meet the definition of a FOCUS city for DL? I know AA considered RDU a focus city in the past; is this still the case?

Not Delta's defination maybe general airline lingo.

Delta does not use to term "focus city" anymore so the answer would be no. You're either a hub, gateway city, or large station.
What gets measured gets done.
 
Noise
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:55 pm

We we have any hard stats to compare??
 
kotoka
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:45 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 78):
CVG isn't loosing "so many flights". CVG has been flat for quite a while now. CVG is still considerably larger than RDU.

How do RDU and BOS compare to CVG in terms of number of daily departures?
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:48 pm

So, I decided to show all the RDU flights that I could find on a date when all the current Delta flights will be active.. June 13, 2014....

ATL = 12x (3 757, 8 MD90, 1 MD88)
DTW = 5x (3 A320, 1 MD88, 1 CR9)
LAS = 3w (3x 738)
LAX = 2x (2x 738)
SLC = 1x (1x A320)
MSP = 5x (2x A319, 2x CR9, 1x E75)
CUN = 1w (MD88)
CMH = 2x (2x CRJ)
BDL = 1x (1x CRJ)
IND = 2x (1x CR9, 1x CRJ)
LGA = 9x (9x CR7)
JFK = 3x (3x CR9)
BWI = 3x (3x CRJ)
BOS = 6x (6x CR9)
CVG = 3x (3x CRJ)
MEM = 1x (1x CRJ)
MCO = 3x (3x CR7)
PHL = 4x (4x CRJ)
TPA = 2x (2x CR7)
FLL = 1w (1w CR7)

Total = 66 daily + 5w flights

Destinations I would like to see.. SEA 1x 738 (due to the gateway build-up), MSY 1x CR9 (return after Katrina), MCI 2x CR7 (RDU is looking to add a flight here), SJU 1x A738 (RDU is looking to add a flight here), SAN 1x A320 (RDU is looking to add a flight), AUS 1x A319 (Nerd Bird run)..
Aiming High and going far..
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:30 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 81):
LGA = 9x (9x CR7)

Wow, nine flights!? Impressive. It would be awesome to see some mainline on a route like that. Maybe 7x daily flights instead on nine if they sprinkled in a 717 or two (now that the 717s are supposedly coming to LGA)  
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 81):
LAX = 2x (2x 738)

So this flight is being increased to two flights this summer? Also impressive.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 81):
SEA 1x 738 (due to the gateway build-up),

I see this coming eventually (if AS doesn't start it first).
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
LV
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:43 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 82):
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 81):
LGA = 9x (9x CR7)

Wow, nine flights!? Impressive. It would be awesome to see some mainline on a route like that. Maybe 7x daily flights instead on nine if they sprinkled in a 717 or two (now that the 717s are supposedly coming to LGA)

I have a feeling that is slot squatting more than anything.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:51 am

Quoting LV (Reply 83):
I have a feeling that is slot squatting more than anything.

I just did a dummy booking for December 9th and, with the exception of one flight, none of the nine flights had more than 5-6 open seats and while the price wasn't high, it certainly wasn't dirt cheap either.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:11 am

Quoting LV (Reply 83):

I have a feeling that is slot squatting more than anything.

DL has been high frequency on LGARDU for a while.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 82):
It would be awesome to see some mainline on a route like that. Maybe 7x daily flights instead on nine if they sprinkled in a 717 or two (now that the 717s are supposedly coming to LGA)

There has been mainline on the route since the final slot swap went live. We surprise me to see a change in the schedule for the summer down the road to include 32Ss again.
What gets measured gets done.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:01 am

Quoting LV (Reply 83):

I have a feeling that is slot squatting more than anything.

No , it is a big business route, and frequency counts more than size. Especially since it is an hour +.5 flight. I once sat next to someone that did the route 3 times a week. He said a he knew of people that flew it more often.

On the weekends you have a lot of transplants traveling for family. During the week you have a stronger business mix.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Noise
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:53 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 81):

Destinations I would like to see.. SEA 1x 738 (due to the gateway build-up), MSY 1x CR9 (return after Katrina), MCI 2x CR7 (RDU is looking to add a flight here), SJU 1x A738 (RDU is looking to add a flight here), SAN 1x A320 (RDU is looking to add a flight), AUS 1x A319 (Nerd Bird run)..

How do you know they (RDU) are actually looking for these flights?
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:53 am

It was discussed in the blog called Cruising Altitude where the quote was However, we’re working very hard on new service markets. Our top destinations domestically include Austin, New Orleans, Kansas City, Seattle, Portland, San Diego and San Juan. Internationally, we see a second European flight to either Frankfurt or Paris as the most viable.
Aiming High and going far..
 
Womack17
Posts: 442
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RE: Delta Adds RDU-LAS

Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:34 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 88):

It was discussed in the blog called Cruising Altitude where the quote was However, we’re working very hard on new service markets. Our top destinations domestically include Austin, New Orleans, Kansas City, Seattle, Portland, San Diego and San Juan. Internationally, we see a second European flight to either Frankfurt or Paris as the most viable.

Great Blog - I check it out weekly!!
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.

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