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jetblueguy22
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Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:36 am

Just saw this on twitter. Apparently they landed at Jabara airport and the runway is too short to take back off. Pretty hard to imagine how this could have happened....
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/403393709279956992
https://twitter.com/SteveGrzanich/status/403393084513214464

Pat
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ikramerica
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:49 am

6100 ft. 100ft wide. Not good...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Confuscius
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:50 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Thread starter):
Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport 

Toulouse?
Ain't I a stinker?
 
tvnewsguy08
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:52 am

Here's the track on the plane -- was headed from JFK to McConnell AFB --

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI4241

Here's more info on the unintended landing:

http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/...66/23081256/-/oma90hz/-/index.html
 
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Spacepope
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:52 am

It has a 6100 foot runway, should be able to take off for McConnell. If not, taxi down to I-35....
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blueflyer
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:06 am

I hope it's empty.
If it's full (and the itinerary makes me think it is), whatever it is carrying can't evidently be flown onboard a 744 so probably needs specialized equipment to be unloaded...
 
jreuschl
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:12 am

This falls into the "your day wasn't THAT bad" category.

What is the minimum runway needed for an empty 747? Worst case would the runway have to have an extension built?
 
mandala499
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:20 am

Just offload the stuff, tow it back to the other threshold... and voila! airborne...  

I guess it was dreaming of being a little plane when the dreamlifter landed...   
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:23 am

737's have been flown off dikes -- no big deal. They'll probably defuel the airplane to minimum fuel and see if that gives them enough performance. Send in a Boeing flight test crew if it looks to be a little hairy and that should cover it. Worse case they can drive the loader over from McConnell and unload it (under the right circumstances). It'll be out of there in a day or two.
 
FlightShadow
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:24 am

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 6):
What is the minimum runway needed for an empty 747?

An empty 747LCF*

Jabara (AAO) is about 10nm from IAB. AAO has one runway, .18/36. IAB has two, both 01/19, and their extended centerlines are close to being in line with each other. Who knows--could have been an emergency and needed to set it down quick.

http://goo.gl/maps/S7gJT
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAAO
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KIAB
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atcsundevil
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:25 am

JATO bottles!!

That can't go wrong.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:26 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 5):
If it's full (and the itinerary makes me think it is), whatever it is carrying can't evidently be flown onboard a 744 so probably needs specialized equipment to be unloaded...

It's probably got a fuselage barrel aboard.. How heavy are individual barrels?

A regular 744F can take off from a sub-6000' runway if it's very lightly loaded. A Dreamlifter presumably has worse takeoff performance than a regular 744. But only Boeing and Atlas know how much worse.

[Edited 2013-11-20 22:28:03]
 
FlightShadow
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:28 am

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 8):
737's have been flown off dikes

   Taca 737 On New Orleans Levee (pic) (by Tom in NO Sep 12 2007 in Civil Aviation)

It's a fascinating read.

[Edited 2013-11-20 22:34:57]
"When the tide goes out, you can tell who was skinnydipping."
 
blueflyer
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:47 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 11):
It's probably got a fuselage barrel aboard.. How heavy are individual barrels?

That was my first thought, but then why would it go to IAB? Even if they couldn't make JFK-PAE non-stop, I can't think the military would let one of its airports be used as a gas station, would they?

I would have no problem being proven wrong, but absent better information, I'm going to think IAB was the final destination.
 
bobdino
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:19 am

Jon Ostrower / WSJ are reporting it as an accidental landing - the crew thought they'd successfully landed at McConnell AFB. Then, they thought they'd landed at Beech Factory Airport:


Top
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:27 am

So, what is the 744L doing transiting through JFK anyway, and what is it carrying to McConnell? It seems to make this trip every 3 or 4 days.

Somebody is going to be spending a lot more time with their family..
BV
 
CXfirst
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:37 am

Now, if getting that dreamlifter out of there proves to be a big problem, leaving that aircraft out of service for an extended amount of time, will there be any effect to the 787 production line? How vital are the dreamlifters to the operation? Was there any leeway built into production for the dreamlifter being out of service?

-CXfirst
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:46 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 15):
So, what is the 744L doing transiting through JFK anyway, and what is it carrying to McConnell? It seems to make this trip every 3 or 4 days.

Ah, ok.. So McConnell is home to spirit aerospace, JKF is kinda on the way from Italy so maybe carrying stabilizers, seems like a bit of ovekill to transport stabs though..
BV
 
PHX787
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:31 am

How the hell do you land at the wrong airport? This has me thinking it's these pilots first time at McConnell

Doesn't 5Y run the LCFs for Boeing? What's their standard procedure for such an incident?
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:40 am

Hahaha, this embarrasing mistake even manages it to come into the news here.   

[Edited 2013-11-21 03:03:26]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
coolum
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:49 am

Full ATC recording here

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/index....dlattach;topic=11160.0;attach=7497

Apparently the tug that was being escorted to the airport has broken down on the public roads.

Not a good day all round  covereyes 

[Edited 2013-11-21 02:52:33]
Coolum
 
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Gonzalo
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:58 am

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 2):
Toulouse?
Quoting jreuschl (Reply 6):
This falls into the "your day wasn't THAT bad" category.
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 10):
JATO bottles!!
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 15):
Somebody is going to be spending a lot more time with their family..
Quoting coolum (Reply 20):
Apparently the tug that was being escorted to the airport has broken down on the public roads.

While I feel sorry for the flight crew involved, I had a few minutes of good laugh after reading this thread....
Confuscius, your sense of humor is really enjoyable  , I almost spill my coffee with a single word post.

Rgds.
G.
Gear Up!!: DC-3 / EMB-110 / FH-227 / A318-19-20-21 / B732 / B763 / B789 / B788 / A343 / ATR72-600
 
trigged
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:04 am

Whoops... Its only 8 miles drive over there, all they need to do is taxi out to Interstate 35.

Seriously, if it is sitting at the Beech factory airport, they could roll it across the grass, close off I-35 for a little while, and roll it over to McConnell. Other than a few light-poles (which could be pulled down temporarily), there is nothing really blocking it from rolling over there.
 
citationjet
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:07 am

Quoting trigged (Reply 22):
if it is sitting at the Beech factory airport,

It is not at Beech field, it is at Jabara airport. Two different airports.

from CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/travel...rgo-plane-wrong-airport/index.html

[
Jabara Airport has a 6101 ft by 100 ft runway. The winds are currently gusting to 26 mph, but a front is expected to come thru in a few hours. This may cause them to have to reposition the airplane to take off to the north.
http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KAAO/summary


[Edited 2013-11-21 03:17:25]
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:19 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
How the hell do you land at the wrong airport?

As others have told me before: By landing at the wrong airport. 


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
peterjohns
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:20 am

Nice to have something to laugh about where no one got hurt and nothing broken!!
Actually this happens more often than one may think- I have often experienced a/c wanting to / intercepting the wrong localizer (left-right) . Once a DC10 of a large american airline, which is no more, even landed in the wrong country!! BRU instead of FRA!
I suppose this will never happen to the flight Crew again, as they will be reminded by friendly colleages before every flight for the rest of their life, to land at the right airport!!
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:33 am

Quoting peterjohns (Reply 25):

Just last year a C-17 landed at the wrong airport in Florida, I believe.

And there was Spantax that landed a Coronado in XFW instead of HAM. Spantax' CEO himself was at the controls, the airplane being full of journalists.

A PR stunt gone wrong. The public image of the tourist airline did not improve. Today, XFW can handle 380 thanks to its runway length.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spantax (the German Wiki article is quite a read...)


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
dynamicsguy
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:47 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 17):
Ah, ok.. So McConnell is home to spirit aerospace, JKF is kinda on the way from Italy so maybe carrying stabilizers, seems like a bit of ovekill to transport stabs though..

You would think so, but the stabilisers do go on the LCF, at least for the -8: Article. They're not small though - I couldn't find the number with a quick search, but the span is probably 60-70 feet.
 
peterjohns
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:48 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 26):

We all know that one in HAM...
But it was Spantax, and one could be happy in those days that they managed to land somewhere at all...
They didn´t have the best safety record.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:53 am

Wouldn't automated flight control prevent ending up at the wrong airport ? If not, why ? I wonder if a fatigue of the pilots, out of time sync on a long flight, were a factors here. I would presume the pilots have been to the intended airport before so should recall what it looks like and it's position ? Still while no one got hurt but this is still a dumb mistake that will cost Boeing a few $100K.
 
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Gonzalo
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:57 am

Quoting peterjohns (Reply 28):
one could be happy in those days that they managed to land somewhere at all...

LOL !!

I hope there are some spotters going to Jabara airport and recording the take off for us !!!
Rgds.
G.
Gear Up!!: DC-3 / EMB-110 / FH-227 / A318-19-20-21 / B732 / B763 / B789 / B788 / A343 / ATR72-600
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:03 pm

Quoting peterjohns (Reply 28):
They didn´t have the best safety record.

O yeah, 1978 I was witness of the crash of a Spantax CV990 in Cologne. While landing the pilots forget to lower the landing gear. It crashed on the runway and one wing caught fire.

[Edited 2013-11-21 04:05:20]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:07 pm

Its even made it in the news here and second most read news article on the BBC website!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25032380

I would imagine once whatever cargo is off-loaded and the majority of the fuel is removed to, a 6100ft runway should not be an issue for the aircraft if taken right up to the threshhold and engines spool to full power before releasing the brakes.

Luton here in the UK very occassionally gets 747-400 aircraft diverted to the airport when LHR is closed and this only has a 7000ft runway, it has also seen 500 seater 747's with Corsair use the airport on football charters within Europe.

6100ft runway leaves little margin for error, but a departure at minimal weight should be do-able.
 
citationjet
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:09 pm

Press conference from Jabara airport just reported that the Dreamlifter is scheduled to depart at noon today on Runway 36.
They are not off loading fuel and not off loading cargo for the takeoff. Evidentially it can take off from the 6,100 ft runway without reducing the weight.

[Edited 2013-11-21 04:42:01]
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
jreuschl
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:55 pm

This is a perfect example of the media blowing up a story. All of them are reporting the takeoff needed at full MTOW but no one reports the minimum.
 
trigged
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:57 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 24):
It is not at Beech field, it is at Jabara airport. Two different airports.

Just a few extra miles and light poles... 
 
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alberchico
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:08 pm

Would the flight crew be fired over something like this ?
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:16 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 29):
Wouldn't automated flight control prevent ending up at the wrong airport ? If not, why ?

It would. Perfectly. If the A/P is on.  

The most errors arise when the runways have the same alignement (compass bearing) or the same layout (two airports with two parallel runways each, for example).


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
Oshkosh1
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:16 pm

When I lived at Paine Field Naval Housing(early 90's) I used to watch empty 47's launch(as opposed to take-off) in a VERY short distance. Wait until a day with a good headwind, set the brakes, firewall the go sticks and that thing will leap off in 4000 feet.
C-150/2, 172, 177, 182, 209, Beech King Air, Convair 580, Twin Otter, RJ, CRJ, ERJ B717,27,37,47,57,67,77. DC8,9,10. MD8
 
SavannahMark
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:20 pm

I'm sitting here scratching my head wondering how an event like this could have happened. Is the tower at IAB not equipped with a D-Brite or other device that would have assisted the controllers in verifying the location and approach path of the aircraft? Were the controllers sitting up there on their butts picking their noses and not monitoring the traffic outside their windows which would have alerted at least someone possessing a little curiosity that the aircraft was not positioned properly on the approach to THEIR airport? Very odd indeed!
 
citationjet
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:23 pm

Looks like we can add this to the following list of landing at the wrong airport:

http://www.thirdamendment.com/wrongway.html
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
nomadd22
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:29 pm

The Forrestal is heading off to be scrapped. Maybe they could use one of her catapults.
Anon
 
bond007
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:29 pm

Quoting SavannahMark (Reply 39):
I'm sitting here scratching my head wondering how an event like this could have happened.

It always makes me wonder also. If I am flying into a field for the very first time, I sit down and go over the charts and airport diagrams before the flight, with all pilots (e.g. F/O and Captain, Instructor and Student etc.). I make note of runways, relative position of beacon and buildings, and other landmarks... and with GPS/FMS if it's used of course, it seems amazing.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
SavannahMark
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:38 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 42):
It always makes me wonder also. If I am flying into a field for the very first time, I sit down and go over the charts and airport diagrams before the flight, with all pilots (e.g. F/O and Captain, Instructor and Student etc.). I make note of runways, relative position of beacon and buildings, and other landmarks... and with GPS/FMS if it's used of course, it seems amazing.

Yes - and as I implied in my previous post, do not the air traffic controllers at IAB at the very least, share some of the responsibility for this incident? When I was still on the job, if I cleared an aircraft to land as the local controller did at the beginning of the recording I listened to, I continued to monitor the progress of the approach and landing all the way till turn-off. The local controller, based on the traffic I heard on the channel was not busy with other duties and I simply find it unacceptable that this was allowed to happen. Am I being too harsh?
 
wingnutmn
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:39 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 36):

Depends. If they have a union or not, if they have ASAP program or not, if they have fatigue reports or not? There are many factors that could affect the pilots staying or going. It is a huge mistake, but it may not be a fireable offence. Ultimately it is a PR nightmare for Boeing and Atlas, but as long as the plane doesn't damage the runway, that is really all it is.

Wingnut
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:41 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 10):
JATO bottles!!

That can't go wrong.

Exactly my thoughts ! LOL

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 30):
I hope there are some spotters going to Jabara airport and recording the take off for us !!!
Rgds.

I'd pay to see that!

I wonder what lead to this mistake, doesn't the FMC tells the pilots the Airport Acronym and it also appears on the flight data display? If the runway is only 100 feet wide why didn't they notice how thin the pavement was?

One thing is sure Boeing should drop the DREAM name of its products... not good for PR.

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:52 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 15):
So, what is the 744L doing transiting through JFK anyway, and what is it carrying to McConnell? It seems to make this trip every 3 or 4 days.

Atlas have a home base there. They do a crew change, customs and probably have maintenance look over it then off to the next stop.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:59 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 13):
I can't think the military would let one of its airports be used as a gas station, would they?

Boeing 'owns' the west side of the base. As mentioned above - Spirit Aerospace use part of the factory complex on the west side of the runways for 787 production activity. The Dreamlifter is a regular visitor to the airport/ base.

Also every B737 starts its life at the factory on the west side of the air base - though they leave on rail cars headed to the Seattle area, not flying out.

That said - this airport was the destination of the flight.

The flight was flown from TAR-JFK-IAB on Nov 8, Nov 12, Nov 17 and yesterday - http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI4241

[Edited 2013-11-21 06:02:55]
Not all who wander are lost.
 
Navion
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:15 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
How the hell do you land at the wrong airport?
Quoting jetblueguy22 (Thread starter):
Pretty hard to imagine how this could have happened....

Look at a map. Same basic runway heading (18 vs 19), almost perfect alignment just a few miles apart, visual approach, etc...you can see how it happened. Every seasoned pilot has had experiences where they misidentified a landmark (including airports). The vast majority of these mistakes are caught, but every now and then...
 
citationjet
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RE: Dreamlifter Lands At Wrong Airport

Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:20 pm

Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.

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